/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6346480]

>persons says dumb shit
>have to deploy incredible efforts to prove him wrong

Why was our time ?

[Anonymous No.6346484]

>>6346480
It's fun proving people wrong.

[Anonymous No.6346485]

Define dumb shit

[Anonymous No.6346492]

>>6346484
I don't think so.

It's tiring and takes a long time, especially if you're communicating with a fucking ape whose feelings you musn't hurt and who isn't receptive.

Even the socratic method is a pain in the ass.

I now just back down from arguments after calling people uneducated.

[Anonymous No.6346498]

>>6346492
>whose feelings you musn't hurt

Well there's your problem.

[Anonymous No.6346507]

time an illusion, persons too

[Anonymous No.6346525]

>>6346492
>I now just back down from arguments after calling people uneducated.

That's what I like to do at /pol/. And when I talk to anyone else who thinks "the markets" will solve everything.

[Anonymous No.6346537]

>>6346480
This was the basis for my strategy in speech in debate when I was in high school.

I can read a dumb argument faster than it takes my opponent to respond to it, so I just inundate them with about seven different lines of argumentation, and then kick all the ones that they respond to, and focus on the arguments they had to drop due to time restraints and push them to win the round.

[Anonymous No.6346545]

>>6346537
Arguments are not battles.

I don't care if my audience think I've won some kind of rhetoric duel or if my interlocutor feels down after talking to me, If I wanted to fight I'd go to my boxing club.

I want to convince, not persuade, I want to share the thin wisdom I have with people who might need it.

[Anonymous No.6346552]

>>6346537
Doesn't that tell you how much bullshit 'debating' actually is? You're much more concerned with the meta-battle than about what's right or wrong.

[Anonymous No.6346559]

>>6346545
Thank you.

Arguing to "win" is useless. Find the points to your argument, if someone proves you to the contrary, have the maturity to admit you were wrong and move on.

[Anonymous No.6346563]

The more abstract and overall stupid the argument the harder is to argue with it, that's is the worst part.

[Anonymous No.6346565]

>>6346545
everything is a battle

[Anonymous No.6346572]

>>6346545
>>6346552
Yeah by the time I was through with it I felt like the whole thing was vain and petty, but it looked good on my resume. I learned and gained a lot in terms of confidence and experience, but past a certain point the skills you learn in it are pointless and you don't become better at speaking or arguing, but only better at "debate."

I just brought it up because it perfectly illustrates what OP was getting at.

[Sage No.6346590]

I bet people get blown the fuck out on /lit/ more per often than any other board. It's just fun making people feel like an idiot and felling smug about how you were right in one particular instance and a stranger was wrong.

[Anonymous No.6346593]

>>6346572
>you learn in it are pointless and you don't become better at speaking or arguing, but only better at "debate."

Ain't that the sad truth, anon

[Anonymous No.6346595]

>>6346590
This.

[Anonymous No.6346607]

>>6346545
No you don't you egomaniacal fuck. You don't know if anything you think you know because if you were an idiot you wouldn't know that. The only reason rhetoric scares you is because you're using the anti-rhetoric rhetoric and you're far enough in your bullshit that you believe it.
Look at it this way. You are absolutely convinced you are right because all your faculties of reason tell you so. You say this person is saying dumb shit. But even if the you are actually right, which is unlikely, seeing as you don't even have this self-knowledge, the other person has equal certainty of themselves as you. Consider it as likely that your opponent will be convinced by anything as you. And the only thing you actually will be convinced by is rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.6346622]

>>6346590
On the internet ? Really anon ?

You don't even see the other person's reaction.
You can't talk to him or throw your french red wine at his nose.
There is no audience or hot girls to impress with your pathetic, meaningless debate.
You swing mighty swords cleave in the water, strike after strike after strike each time more unsure if you cut something or not, barely convincing yourself you are not being le epic trolled.

Arguing on internet is nothing but a masturbatory, ersatz version of something which is already a formal and pointless waste of time, its sole purpose being seducing dumb bitches.

[Anonymous No.6346634]

>>6346622
i dunno man, watching someone devolve from arguing their position to hurling ad hominems once they realize they're out-gunned is pretty delightful.

[Anonymous No.6346645]

Do what I do. Whenever someone says something incredibly stupid, assume they're trolling.

[Anonymous No.6346649]

>>6346607
Lmao look at this overconceptualising ape.

>A says that if thermodynamic laws are right, oceans should be boiling. (audience hilarity ensues)
>B has to explain the whole pressure conservation process to him wich takes colossal efforts.

>A says that the moon landing was fake
>B has to expand on multiple proofs using different sources and innovative arguments

>A says there is no philosophy of moral realism
>B has to explain the entire Kantian corpus to him

Do you fucking understand, you onanismic dense moron, or do we have to "debate" ?

[Anonymous No.6346655]

>>6346492
Maybe the reason you can never convince people is because you're always wrong. Have you considered that?

[Anonymous No.6346656]

>>6346607
>I'm in my high school debate team and I've read the Gorgias !

You don't even understand what we are talking about here, anon.

[Anonymous No.6346661]

>>6346655
I never try to convinced people unless there is absolutely no possible doubt left.

Else it is a waste of time. If you don't do the same you are wasting your time.

[Anonymous No.6346663]

It's not worth your time if you're going to call them stupid. Nobody changed their opinion by being "educated" that way. If you're open to their views, they'll be open to yours. Calling them wrong will only harden their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.6346723]

>>6346649
>A says that if thermodynamic laws are right oceans should be boiling
>B says "if you know enough about how thermodynamic laws work you should be able to tell me how Y works, right?"
>A either flounders and B can quickly and easily dismember him or A doesn't take the bait and B can hammer it home indefinitely

Sounds like you're just shit at arguing.

[Anonymous No.6346743]

>>6346480
>literally every time /lit/ shitposts about 'genre'/asoiaf

[Anonymous No.6346747]

>>6346590
>felling smug
It sounds like smog collecting or some other fantasy primary economic sector occupation which involves a modified net or axe. brb writing a book about this

[Anonymous No.6346761]

>>6346661
You know the other person thinks the same thing right? This is why internet arguments are so awful. Neither side are even paying attention to each-other and people watching the argument unfold are taking note of the most rage-inducing comments made so that they can use it for a troll thread the next day. Everybody loses, especially 4chan.

[Anonymous No.6346766]

>>6346537
how does it feel to be a bad person?

[Anonymous No.6346773]

>>6346492
>I now just back down from arguments after calling people uneducated.
That's an incredibly useless thing to do. You're only reinforcing their opinions and ideas by insulting them instead of attacking their arguments.

[Anonymous No.6346849]

I hate when people engage in conversation only so that they can "win" or be "right"

Conversation -- debate, argumentation, whatever -- in a real, non-autistic, non-internet world should merely be attempting to get either side to understand the other's, and even if they do not agree, they can at least understand the logic behind the position (hopefully)

Fuck every single one of you god damned faggots who needs to be "correct" during a conversation with a normal person about IDEAS, OPINIONS, FEELINGS, or BELIEFS -- you stupid mother fuckers

Everyone hates you, and it is a chore talking with you. It is cute one or two times, and then it is annoying, as I see your passion and desire is only so ardent because of some insecurity that who-cares instilled in you, from god-knows what age, and no one cares, and you are now inflicting your insecurity on others

>Oh my god, you're right, you are clearly 10/10 GOAT in all departments
There. Are you validated enough?

pic related; it's everyone who enjoys debate

[Anonymous No.6346954]

>>6346747

I'm going to build a fantasy universe in which shitposting is a primary economic activity

[Anonymous No.6346971]

>>6346954
You mean like now?

[Anonymous No.6347113]

>>6346761
^^this

[Anonymous No.6347128]

>>6346849

[Anonymous No.6347779]

>>6346849
>ideas,opinions, feelings, beliefs

All of which can be proven wrong.

[Anonymous No.6347780]

>>6346480
>persons says
Why was our time?

[Anonymous No.6347801]

>>6347779

>a feeling I experience can be proven wrong

uwotm8?

[Anonymous No.6347802]

"how can something be more expensive than gold, because how could you buy gold then?"
'what? that makes no sense'
"HUUUUUURRR DUURR childish assertions you have just displayed you inability to read and compression! dur"

[Anonymous No.6347811]

>person eats dumb tacos
>have to employ incredible efforts to take shit

Why was our time?

[Anonymous No.6347819]

>>6346743
but you never prove us wrong friend, you just make yourself seem like a big ol pleb

:^)

[Anonymous No.6347854]

That's why you don't. Most of times I just chill out and leave myself be. Not worth it.

[Anonymous No.6347891]

>>6346480
You're not supposed to waste your time. There are plenty of assertions in the Bible that you should not waste your time with people who hate or who are different to the truth. If you think about it, Christ was quite selective in whom he talked to.

If you want to talk to someone like that the only method is the Socratic method. You have to start from Socratic ignorance and talk to them like you were a child, asking them to explain their position to you as though you were a child, until they find out that they don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Trying to meet them head on your opinion vs. their opinion goes absolutely no where.

[Anonymous No.6348681]

>>6346484
It really isn't

[Anonymous No.6348690]

>>6348681
>implying