/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6327198]

Second attempt at this thread
I want to make a monthly indie literary journal.
What would make you feel tempted to submit material to one? What would make you buy one?
Any other opinion is welcomed: price you're willing to pay, length of the stories to keep your interests, length of the magazine to start looking decent, minimum amount of stories per issue to be worth it, etc.

[Anonymous No.6327240]

>>6327198
What is exactly indie literary? writtings you accept are shit but 'oh well, let's suck some dicks for a change'?

[Anonymous No.6327263]

>>6327240
It would be open to anyone but I'd try to keep some sort editorial tone through the selection to slowly find a group of writers who are actually talented and make the magazine look good while thinking they owe me something.

I just added indie to imply no connection with a publisher and a cheap price. It would say so in the cover since we don't really use that word in my country outside of some Pavement fans.

[Anonymous No.6327273]

>>6327198
>What would make you feel tempted to submit material to one?

If I felt that it had already published things comparable to mine, also if there was a little bit of money

What would make you buy one?

Some kind of miracle - this is the essential paradox of literary magazines: there are more people who want to submit than who want to read, especially if you have to pay for it.

My favourite lit mags are the ones online that are free.

It can't be just fiction either - you need essays and other junk in there like all the other mags.

[Anonymous No.6327302]

>>6327198
>2015
>still using the word "indie"
>using the word "indie" to refer to a genre in which most of it is independent already

[Anonymous No.6327310]

>>6327198
>What would make you buy one?
maybe if the issue had a theme that I was interested in. For example when Granta had their Chicago issue I bought it because I live in Chicago. Normally I never buy literary magazines. I occasionally flip through them, but that's it.

Or I would buy it based on hype, like if a certain story in their started to get talked about widely then I would want to check it out

[Anonymous No.6327329]

>>6327273
>having a previous body of work
Yeah, I know that's a big thing but you have to start somewhere. You can lie a bit about your credentials down the line

>paradox
Yes, I'm aware of that.
Do you think that you were more open to buying them when you were a teen? Or is there a context that would make it more tolerable to drop a couple bucks, like after class or before taking a train or something?

>not just fiction
I'd really prefer if it were just fiction. I dislike rushed 1 page opinions about complex issues.

>>6327302
I'm just using it to imply cheap

>>6327310
do you think thematic issues in general are a good idea or too gimicky?

[Anonymous No.6327331]

>>6327198
>What would make you buy one?
Nothing.

There are all kinds of retards clamouring to pour information into my eyes for free. There is so much to read and so many reasons to read it. Why would I want to spend money on an indie literary journal? This is the question you should be thinking about very seriously. Maybe you should find alternative ways to monetize, because what you really need is an audience, and if you ask potential audience members for money you'd better have something good/different/marketable to offer... or else you're just putting up a needless barrier to entry and competing to fail with similar publications.

>Any other opinion is welcomed: price you're willing to pay, length of the stories to keep your interests, length of the magazine to start looking decent, minimum amount of stories per issue to be worth it, etc.

Not very relevant.

What problem are you addressing? What need are you fulfilling? Who is your target audience? What are you offering them to solve their problem/need?

No one wants to buy your indie journal. What they want to buy is what your indie journal represents. eg. An identity of being avant garde, or intelligent, or cutting-edge progressive... An escape from their boring adolescent life in which no one takes them seriously. The ability to connect with others. The feeling that they are a part of something and connected to others. An opportunity to express themselves. The feeling that they, TARGET_AUDIENCE, finally have someone speaking up for them or putting them in fiction or highlighting their concerns. Stuff like that.

[Anonymous No.6327362]

>>6327331
I never had the idea of getting a livelihood out of it, I just wouldn't want to loose too much money. Of course the point of making it would be consolidating connections and inserting myself between the writer and the publisher validated by people who wrongly thinks it's a middle ground before publication, that's the point of every literary magazine.

[Anonymous No.6327371]

>http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/

this is a partial database of all lit magazines that accept submissions. Have you done any research? How will your mag differ from the thousand others? How are you going to market it, establish an online pressence, etc? Nobody will submit if they don't know about your mag, nobody will read it either, let alone pay for it.

[Anonymous No.6327386]

>>6327371
If I had done some serious research I wouldn't be making vague questions to you guys.
The diferentiation issue isn't such a big deal since there's very little competence in my country, but I do realize I need to have an on-line presence and that it's more important than the printed material. The printed version could even not exist while claiming it sold out, being backed up by a few pics and the on-line back up.

[Anonymous No.6327390]

>>6327386

So you're just spitballing to pass the time on a rainy saturday afternoon, with absolutely no intention of ever doing anything about this half-baked plan?

Good to know that everyone who's answered you so far has been wasting their fucking time.

[Anonymous No.6327391]

>>6327371
also, that archive seems like a great source. thanks a lot.

[Anonymous No.6327399]

>>6327329
>do you think thematic issues in general are a good idea or too gimicky?
they can be gimmicky if it seems like you're trendhopping, but not always. i think they are a good idea

but from the standpoint of the editor, it's a lot more difficult to put together a thematic issue than it is just a regular one

what country do you live in?

[Anonymous No.6327429]

>>6327399
I guess the idea would be getting a theme that ties to something that's happening while not being a trend yet. It would requiere months of preparation. Or chosing a bunch of rejected stories that have a thing in common and calling it a day.
Still, it's something to consider after a few decent issues. Right now is just Fanta® sea.

Argentina. All our literary magazines are absurdely exclusive, usually demanding being already published and/or part of their institution. They prefer re printing dead authors if there are some free pages over taking a risk with new ones.

[Anonymous No.6327504]

I was thinking about this: ad reveneu is divided among the submitters. Maybe add an on-line voting system a la shonen jump and the most voted gets more money.

[Anonymous No.6327720]

what if you offer a blow job to anyone you deem good enough to get published? that's point anyway, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.6327836]

>>6327504

>i have no idea how ad revenue works

you're not gna be making jack shit from ads from your tiny little website lmao

[Anonymous No.6327853]

>>6327836
of course not, but print magazines have monthly payed ads.

[Anonymous No.6327951]

>>6327429
so your mag would be in spanish?

Are you the anon that talked about this a while ago on a /spanish/ thread and mentioned having contacts in Mendoza?

[Anonymous No.6327957]

>>6327951
it's always scary when people remember you in 4chan, yes, i'm that anon and I haven't done any real ground work for my project. are you the other LA anon who wanted to do a webthing?

[Anonymous No.6328027]

>>6327957
yes, that's why I remember. I haven't done anything either, don't worry.

[Anonymous No.6328034]

Nothing some kid writes off the top of his head is going to interest anyone.

[Anonymous No.6328058]

>>6328027
while for a second i was afraid that in these few months you had become a highly successful writer and entrepreneur, knowing that both of us failed isn't any better. it can still be done.

[Anonymous No.6328224]

>>6328058
>i was afraid that in these few months you had become a highly successful writer and entrepreneur

I have. I meant to say, I haven't done anything regarding the magazine project we talked about. If you read The New Yorker, you probably read something of mine these last few months.

[Anonymous No.6328255]

>>6327504
>>6327853

You really are clueless eh?

[Anonymous No.6328353]

>>6327198
two things
1) Cover/ graphic design- should be REALLY catchy and well done. Don't skimp on this, as this is going to be an impulse buy and something that people will want to make them feel smart when it's laying around their house.
2) where are you going to sell it? Get it sold at coffee shops and shit like that and with a nice cover you might have a shot. Maybe college book stores too, but you want a wider audience as well. Consider giving them away, or hooking up with some local artists to give away free copies at book signing or something.

keep the price under $5 and keep it short. Most people would rather spend 3.99 on a 45 page magazine than 7.99 on 150 page one. This will also help you have a higher density of quality stories.

tl;dr: there's no shortage of good stories out there that starving wanna be writers will supply to you for free, so marketing, marketing, and marketing are gonna be your biggest concerns.

[Anonymous No.6328395]

What qualifications do you have as an editor?

What are you looking for? Short stories? Flash fiction? Poetry? Essays?

Is this a strictly literary magazine? Is genre ok to submit?

Will you issue form rejections?

Is it ok to submit more than one piece?

Word limit?

Will this be online only? Will you have physical copies?

Who's on your staff? What positions are open?

[Anonymous No.6328427]

>>6328395

none

everything

it's ok, yeah

maybe

sure, if you want to

about 4k

probably both

Dunno yet

[Anonymous No.6328469]

>>6327198

I think the market is currently over-saturated with magazines that have no clear concept, especially on-line magazines, and on top of that, there's a very and insular demographic that reads them to begin with. They're more like trade magazines for writers than they are any sort of broad entertainment, education, or communication. This has certain pressures on the work I won't get into, but I think are really detrimental for writing culture as a whole.

As for the unclear concept, most journals editors' are such poor critics they can't formulate their own critical criterion and make them public, or don't out of jelly-spine-ed-ness.

It's so much easier to get a best-of or a topical anthology, such as the Best American or a book of light verse, etc, which at least has some historical distance, if I'm looking to read work that isn't already well-respected. I then track authors from these back to their bodies or work. Or I'll turn to POETRY or the 1 - 5 top magazines if I for some reason want to peek at a slice of contemporary writing.

The only way I'm going to even consider your magazine is if it's "about" something I'm interested in very clearly: light verse, pure poetry, etc. I can already get the "quality" that everyone says is their standard from the places that can command real prestige and money and with it the talent or at least the people best at accumulating cultural capital.

As far as buying your journal, it'd take a lot to get me to buy it. It has to be good enough to command my time. And cheap. Ten dollars or less an issue. I'm much more likely to read it if it's online and free (like some really good places PANK, Light online, etc.) Lots of online back issues might convince me.

[Anonymous No.6328477]

>>6327853

All contemporary literary journals, in America at least, are subsidized by grants. None of them are supported by ad revenue and circulation costs. Do some research. Read interviews with editors.

[Anonymous No.6328519]

If you're accepting everything and I'm not looking to read a little bit of everything than i wont even bother picking it up. If you want to do genre, pick a genre and roll with only stories of that genre. This will get you a targeted audience much quicker than dipping into all spectrums.

After a while (if you make it that far) you can start picking and choosing stories that fit into the mold of what you want to feature. Writers will pick up on this (bonus points if you paint a clear picture on a submissions form) and enter more stories following what you normally publish. Congrats your not shit.

[Anonymous No.6328542]

>>6328427
Forget it. You don't even have a clear idea of what you want to do. Youre the editor sweepee. You should have a plan of action. So far youre not someone I'd want to bother with.

>>6328519
this

[Anonymous No.6328572]

>>6328395
>qualifications
Obviously none, if I had a foot in the industry I would work my way there. I've done editing work in hs and college, but nothing that got published.

>looking for
I think that I should study the offer of authors I can access (for example, I know way more people trying to get essays published than fiction but I never looked around for fiction writers). But mainly I think short fiction would be the best bets, maybe a small space for poetry or flash but just to make it look varied and/or keep an author I like present in the magazine until he finishes a longer work.

>literary/genre
That's something I haven't though about and I don't really think would be an issue. If the work is good most literary fans will like it. When we had ZwG almost everyone loved the war stories because they were great, while at the same time John K. got the most love and it was genereless stuff.

>Issue form rejections
Maybe that's what scares me the most. In the /lit/ zines that meant getting a lot of very loud haters. But I don't know if I could have the will to keep kicking shit around telling them it just needs a bit more work.
In anyway I would try to maintain a level of quality. I'm not sure what I would get from the masses, though.

>more than one piece
One per issue or it will be plagued but if it's good it would be great to keep them around. Serials would be great too since that makes people look for the next installment.

>word limit
I haven't talked with any printing place. I think between 6 and 10 works per issue would be good enough, with four pages each maybe. But I don't know what typeface.
I haven't done the calculations, I just don't know.

>online only
No, if I'm gonna work this shit I want something physical to show. It could be a very small number of copies, 100 or less, and then have a virtual archive of the best ones or something one month after the printing.

>staff
I'm barely thinking about this; that means that so far is one anon playing with a calculator and imagining what could the future be.

All of those are the first answers that came to my mind. If I'm saying something stupid please let me know.

[Anonymous No.6328608]

>>6328469
>market
I mentioned before that I'm not from the states and that the conditions are a bit different here. It's still very true, and has been brought up, that we all know more people interested in getting there than in buying one. I'm aware of this, the main objective is to build a literary presence and maybe promote some unknown authors (and get some respect out of that)

>price
I was thinking well bellow $10, but it's a different economy with different limitations. I'm aware that you start this stuff willing to lose money monthly anyway.

>critical criterion
This I'd really like to understand better. You're saying that the best policy is openly putting rules for everyone to know? Do you have any example? I can't imagine how to put quality standards into a list format (besides the obvious things)

>>6328477
I didn't know that was the situation in the states but it's the same here. Still, what I mentioned was getting adds to give that money to the writers.

>>6328542
that was another anon

>>6328519
I really don't see a genre specific magazine working without a bigger institution that will use it as market sample. We don't have such a strong genre culture here, very few people actively look and buy specialized material.
Still, I like the evolution concept and I'll keep it in mind. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.6328619]

>>6328572
Ok then!
>>6328542
my mistake

[Anonymous No.6328629]

>>6328619
O-ok what?

Also, checking the page some nice anon linked I guess it would be token payment, if any at all. I know it's hard to make yourself interesting to good writers if you only offer exposure, and that it brings all the talentless kids looking for validation when they know there is no real quality in their work; but I just can't come up with enough money to pay everyone.

[Anonymous No.6328640]

>>6328629
I was happy you answerd my questions and not the fake op,

I dont need to be paid. If you get physical copies i'd just want a couple of contributer copies.

[Anonymous No.6328688]

I have a plan for you OP.

>Create threads on /lit/, /p/ (photography), /ic/ (art), and /gd/ (graphic design) advertizing that you are going to create a sample 'anthology' of all things within the creative 4chan sphere
>ask anons to lend their finished works, short stories, poetry, essays, even the occasional single post or screenshot
>collect good work and decide what to keep (considering the other anons and their judgement over what's decent)
>collab with some friendly anons over in /gd/ after you have a decent collection of what could be passed as an art/literary journal
>show your work to publishers/businessmen so you prove that you're actually good at this
>work within the journal industry so you know the ins and outs
>eventually break away and make your own independent journal

We could call it "Legacy of Shitposting in a Tundra, Vol 1."

[Anonymous No.6328739]

>>6328688
I'm not in an english speaking country so that wouldn't work out, but sounds like a nice plan if you want to try. I'm sure it's more or less what the guys from ZWG did (exploit 4chan to make a portfolio)

[Anonymous No.6328910]

>>6327198
>I want to make a monthly indie literary journal.
Go for it, OP. But you're going to find out firsthand just how many idiots write and how many idiots don't read. It'll get annoying when you've got 10,000 submissions but only 10 subscriptions.

I recommend you try to get an art grant from your city. If you come up with a good proposal for a non-profit lit mag there's a chance they'll give you a large sum of money to cover printing fees.

[Anonymous No.6329030]

>>6328910
i have a bit of a masochist desire to see how bad it can get

[Anonymous No.6329731]

>>6328688

Didn't someone do exactly this about three years ago? I can't remember the name of the zine though.