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/lit/ - Literature

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6322467 No.6322467[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>there are marxists on /lit/ who believe that Communism is objectively more moral than bourgeois ideologies detatched from class interests

>> No.6322475

what do you mean 'more moral', my actualization vs yours in not 'moral'. it comes down to fuck you.

moral in this case is just a joke your try to trick people with to continue playing your game.

>> No.6322503

I'm sure your pals in the gulag would love to hear all about that moral high ground

save it for them

>> No.6323059

>>6322503
>implying the USSR was actually communist

>> No.6323083

Truth OP.
The closest anyone came to offering legitimate Marxian Ethics was Feuerbach, and Engels shut him down hard in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. It can't be done, nor is it what contemporary Marxism is for.

>> No.6323088

>>6322467

YOU ARE PRESUPPOSING THAT THE ONLY OPTIONS ARE EITHER "BOURGEOIS IDEOLOGIES" —WHATEVER YOU MAY MEAN BY THAT— AND "MARXISM"/"COMMUNISM".

YOU ARE NO BETTER, OR WORSE, THAN THE "COMMUNISTS" THAT YOU DERIDE; YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE SAME FALSE DICHOTOMY AS THEM.

YOUR RATIONALE IS ONLY INVALID SINCE IT REVOLVES AROUND THE INVALID NOTION OF ALL HUMAN AFFAIRS BEING ROOTED IN "CLASS INTERESTS".

>> No.6323090
File: 13 KB, 250x250, Its only democracy when I win.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6323090

>>6323059
>implying that it wasn't

>> No.6323098

>>6323088
>"YOUR RATIONALE IS ONLY INVALID..."

I MEAN: "YOUR RATIONALE IS ALSO INVALID..."

>> No.6323101

>>6323088

>implying that I'm not a Communist
>implying I believe in the notion that all human affairs are rooted in class interests

>> No.6323102

>>6323098
>tfw when you realize you've been yelling your mistakes.

>> No.6323120

>>6323098
Can you fucking not?

>> No.6323127 [DELETED] 

LOOK AT ME EVERYONE

I CAN TRIPFAG TOO

SHOWER ME WITH ATTENTION

I DON'T CARE IF THIS IS AN ANONYMOUS IMAGEBOARD, I'M GOING TO MAKE ME AN IDENTITY

LOVE ME, HATE ME, OR LOVE TO HATE ME /LIT/

>> No.6323130

LOOK AT ME EVERYONE

I CAN TRIPFAG TOO

SHOWER ME WITH ATTENTION

I DON'T CARE IF THIS IS AN ANONYMOUS IMAGEBOARD. I'M GOING TO MAKE ME AN IDENTITY

LOVE ME, HATE ME, OR LOVE TO HATE ME /LIT/

>> No.6323139
File: 229 KB, 1177x927, lol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6323139

>>6322467
Chaos is magic.

>> No.6323148

>>6323130
Pretty much. Most annoying thing. There are complete assholes here. It's a shame. I take pleasure in knowing he'll die one day. Hopefully soon, and painfully.

>> No.6323156

>>6323139
WOW.

>> No.6323895

>>6323088
OMINOUS-KANJI GUY,
DURING YOUR RELATIVELY SHORT STAY AT THIS BOARD YOU'VE BECOME ASTOUNDINGLY UNPOPULAR WITH MOST OF YOUR FELLOW USERS, FOR A GOOD MANY REASONS. UNLIKE SOME NOTIONS YOU MAY COMFORTABLY ENTERTAIN, THE CONTENT OF YOUR POSTS IS THE LESS PARAMOUNT. YOU ARE AN UNDOUBTEBLY INSIPID THINKER, A FACT WHICH YOUR RIDICULOUS USE OF SOLECISMS DOES LITTLE TO ATONE FOR. BUT THIS BOARD, IN AS FAR AS IT IS DEDICATED TO LITERATURE AND URBANE DISCUSSION, MUST BEAR WITH YOUR TYPES FOR THE SAKE, VERILY, OF ITS VERY CALLING. THE REASON WE FIND YOUR PRESENCE HERE SO ABHORRENT IS NOT YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY OR LACK THEREOF, BUT YOUR ARROGANCE, AS SHOWN IN YOUR CHILDLIKE INSISTENCE ON WRITING ENTIRELY IN CAPITAL LETTERS.
READING WITH "ALL-CAPS" IS NOT ONLY TEDIOUS IN ITSELF, BUT ALSO DEMANDS UNIQUE ATTENTION FROM THE READER. BY CLAIMING THIS KIND OF ATTENTION YOU ARE PLACING YOUR ARGUMENTS ON A HIGHER FOOTING THAN OURS, THEREBY DEMANDING SUCH DISTINCTION AS YOU TRULY DO NOT DESERVE. YOU HAVE THUS COMPELLED US TO VOICE OUR GRIEVANCES, AND WE DEMAND OF YOU THE FOLLOWING:
PLEASE, DO US THE COURTESY OF TYPING AS WE ALL DO BY CONVENTION, USING LOWECASE AS WELL AS CAPITAL LETTERS. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!?
I'VE TAKEN IT UPON MYSELF TO APPEND THIS MESSAGE TO AS MANY OF YOUR ALL-CAPITALIZED POSTS AS I MAY WITHOUT SPAMMING. I ADVISE OUR FELLOW USERS TO JOIN ME IN DOING SO.

YOURS SINCERELY, A CONCERNED /lit/IZEN.

>> No.6323924

>>6323895
Just ignore him, he's too autistic to get anything from that.

>> No.6323972

>>6323895
>RELATIVELY SHORT STAY
how new r u


fuck off

>> No.6324009

If a marxist rejects bourgeois ideas he's failing at marxism. But I'm pretty sure it's mostly OP being angry about a group of people he doesn't know.

>> No.6324042

>>6324009

lol, OP here. I was trying the make a thread about morality, but /lit/'s been on the fritz lately. I never said anything about bourgeois ideas within the OP, I was just complaining about how marxists on /lit/ believe that Communism is morally superior without detatched from class interests.

>> No.6324057

>>6323895
He's been posting on /lit/ and /tv/ for at least 3 years now, and that's just with his current persona. He's probably used other personas prior to his current one.

What amazes me is how consistent and dedicated he is to shitpost for so long

>> No.6324184

>there are Marxists on /lit/

That's the first problem right there

>> No.6324249

>>6324184
>there are people who actually care about exploitation and unbalanced world finances, who dont want to get controlled by NSA and GCHQ on /lit/

i dont get your problem, anon

>> No.6324796

>>6324042
*remove "without"

>> No.6324997

>the board dedicated to reading books has a leftist streak
>the board dedicated to watching sitcoms and action movies is filled with meme-spouting reactionaries

Gee, I wonder why that is.

>> No.6325004

>>6324249
>i dont get your problem, anon
The problem is that you have to be incredibly moronic to believe in the "exploitation and unbalanced world finances".

The 19th century called, they want their outdated economics models back.

>> No.6325026

>>6322467
>bourgeois ideologies detatched from class interests
logical contradiction

>> No.6325098

>>6325026
It's not
>bourgeois ideologies detatched from class interests
it's
>detatched from class interests, Communism is objectively more moral than bourgeois ideologies

>> No.6326408

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMdEp2UNrs

/lit/ in a nutshell

>> No.6326461

>>6322467
>bourgeois ideologies detatched from class interests

you do realize BOURGEOIS IDEOLOGIES functionally can't be detached from class interests, right? like, those two things are what constructs the class system in the first place...

>> No.6326470

>>6323088
THAT'S NOT IMPLIED AT ALL, AND YOU'RE A FUCKING RETARD.

MUH THIRD WAY

>> No.6326820

Liberalism is in the interest of the bourgoise
And it has been hijacked by the new aristcracy

I've moved to a less statist view, but one important thing that needs to be evaluated for modern communism is that the current middle class are not the bourgeios.

The current middle class are employed, not employers. They are workers in office jubs. And as such the middle class should be considered part of the new proleteriat.

Modern communism is against millionaires, not genuine parts of society worth caring about.

The real issue with communism is that it does not solve the issues of how we should live but rather how we should work. It thus promotes an absorption by the work ethic, which is undesireable.

>> No.6327859

>>6325004
>Outdated economic models
Stop spilling this shill ass shit you retard. Marxist economics are not "outdated", at least not for a work created in the 19th century. Also the 20th century is when marxism (leninism) happened you fuckwit.

>> No.6327867

>>6326408
I like how the former socialist guy is just setting this guy up for failure with some bill o reilly style interrogatio rather than having an actual respectable convo with him.

>> No.6327993

Jesus fuck, Marx doesn't make a moral argument against capitalism. Where the fuck do you /pol/acks get these ideas from

>> No.6327998

>>6326820

This sounds kinda like baudrillards critique; that Marx has this obsession with productivity

>> No.6328006

>>6323059
#notmycommunism

This good old argument. Soon you will start saying how good the Soviets actually were on industrializing the nation, altough they weren't communist.

>> No.6328015

>>6328006
>hey guys I just disproved gravity because I was in space and i didn't fall on the ground
>dude that's not what gravity is you need to be on a planet or some shit to experience gravity
>ugh you always make that argument >muh not true gravity

>> No.6328020

>>6328006
North korea sure has turned to shit since they became democratic and republican.

#notmydemocracy
#notmyrepublic

>> No.6328032

What people hate the bourgeois so much?

Of all the ruling classes, be it the aristocracy, the clerical class or even the proletariat, the bourgeoisie has been the best. Bourgeois civilization is objectively the best civilization.

>> No.6328037

>>6328032
tell that to a sweatshop worker in the Third World

y'all are blind

>> No.6328040

>>6328020
Then please tell me what kind of policy ruled the USSR.

>> No.6328050

>>6328040
State capitalism.
Communism is a system in which the workers control the means of production. This is obviously not what happened in the ussr. Furthermore, lenin took the power away from the soviets shortly after the revolution.

>> No.6328055

>>6322467
>bourgeois ideologies detatched from class interests
>bourgeois ideologies
>detatched from class interests
Ok that doesn't make any goddamn sense.

>> No.6328098

>>6328037
The sweatshop worker in the Third World, more likely than not, moved from his rural estate to the city so he could work, so he made his choice between rule by aristocracy and rule by bourgeoisie and he chose the bourgeoisie.

>> No.6328106

>>6328050
No, the Soviets ceded their power, that was in the interests of the managerial caste.

State capitalism is just a buzzword.

>> No.6328107

>>6328098
>bourgeois rule is better than aristocratic rule
No shit sherlock, literally every marxist ever agreed on that.

>> No.6328111

>>6328107
>implying that it is

>> No.6328115

>>6328107
And it's better than proletarian rule too. People migrate to bourgeois countries, not to communist countries. Haitians prefer to cross the entire Latin America to live on Brazil than to cross a bay and land on Cuba.

>> No.6328117

>>6328111
go home and drink your unpasteurized milk, dark enlightenment dude

>> No.6328124

>>6328117
>dark enlightenment

Dark enlightenment is antitraditional af m8

>> No.6328135

>>6328115
Protip: vanguard party officials are not proletarian, as they do no productive work.

>> No.6328136

>>6328106
>the Soviets ceded their power
Yeah? How so?

>>6328098
In most cases the sweatshop worker is driven to city involuntarily. Urbanization was a process that derived from the abolition of communal lands and concentration of property, not from people suddenly deciding to move. Your vision is pretty naive.

>>6328115
There isn't a single country in the world ruled by the proletarians.

>> No.6328153

>>6328136
>Yeah? How so?

When they decided to support the October Revolution

>Urbanization was a process that derived from the abolition of communal lands and concentration of property, not from people suddenly deciding to move.

That was only in England after the enclosures, it's not relevant from modern-day "sweatshop workers" in Asia.

>There isn't a single country in the world ruled by the proletarians

Anymore, which says it all.

>> No.6328157

>>6328124
wait, nydwracu and the gang isn't traditional? then why do they fetishize medieval europe and pagan poetry so much

>> No.6328169
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6328169

so this is /lit/, huh... It's always interesting how people who read a lot tend to be leftists, but that's real life not an anonymous imageboard

>> No.6328185

>>6328153
>not relavant for modern-day "sweatshop workers" in asia
because they totally didn't have to decide for the lesser evil to survive.

>> No.6328202

>>6328157
Rose coloured glasses

>> No.6328207

>>6328169
People who read a lot also tend to spend a lot of time in their own heads. As such they tend to see the ideal, rather than the reality.

>> No.6328209

>>6328169
>/lit/ is real life and not an anonymous image board

Hm.

>> No.6328214

>>6328202
their commitment to an idealistic concept of medieval life might be the reason they type like they got hella faded off of tainted wellwater

>> No.6328218
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6328218

>>6328169
People who read a lot tend to be leftists because leftism empowers people who read a lot.

>> No.6328230

>>6328169

The only way an intellectual can have power by beingn an intellectual is by trying to have the right answer (or the right theory)

other people just don't care about being right

>> No.6328240
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6328240

>>6328230
Praxis theory deliberately eschews being right for being useful to the revolutionary movement. It's not about having the right answer, it's about controlling the propagation of answers so that your own theory comes of as the right one.

Considering how Marxists dominate the academia and the entire educational establishment, it works.

>> No.6328407

>>6328153
>When they decided to support the October Revolution
What a retarded argument. Soviets didn't support the october revolution thinking they would lose power shortly after. That's like saying the people in kronstadt wanted to die because they supported the october revolution, or that the committee wanted to be purged because they didn't stop stalin.

>That was only in England after the enclosures, it's not relevant from modern-day "sweatshop workers" in Asia.
It is relevant. They go to the cities because they don't have lands. They don't arbitrarily decide to be modern slaves.

>> No.6328434
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6328434

>>6328153
>what is the largest human migration of recent times, from privatized countryside into the cities

>> No.6328483

>there are people in this thread who think the means of production should be owned by a small elite

>> No.6328484

>>6328407
People in Kronstadt wanted to kill and people in the committe wanted to purge. That they got the short end of the stick doesn't mean that the processes weren't already at motion.

>> No.6328486

>>6328483
>there are people in this thread that haven't read Robert Michels, Gaetano Mosca or Vilfredo Pareto, and that think they can escape rule by a small elite

Even rural communes such as the Russian obschnina had them starost

>> No.6328489

>>6328006
I actually think that the general state of the shithole that is Russia is a sign that the problem was more with the country than with the underlying ideology

>> No.6328528

>>6328484
>anarchosyndicalists wanted to kill workers
sure m8

>> No.6328674

>>6328528
Imagine if the Bolsheviks were crushed in 1918. No one would believe that they could have done the shits they later did.

>> No.6328765

>>6328209
fail lol

>> No.6328799

>>6328218
>>6328207
you think it's just because of that?
>>6328230
really? people don't care about being right? isn't being right what satisfies people the most?
>>6328240
Educational establishements are usually the most democratic as I remember them and as I know, having relatives in that system. I'm not saying there aren't any dictatorships on schools but it's usually not marxsist but the opposite. Proof could be that you still have many rightists in schools who shape up the system quite a bit. Please support your far fetched education conspiracy theory better next time.

>> No.6329781

>>6328674
They had already centralized power by then though.

>> No.6329803
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6329803

>>6322467

>> No.6329826

>>6323895
DEARCONCERNED/lit/IZEN
IDONOTVNDERSTANDWHYYOVHAVENOTLEARNEDTOREADTHELATINALPHABETINITSORIGINALINCARNATIONIFALLCAPSANDNOSPACESORPVNCTVATIONWEREGOODENOVGHFORTHEANCIENTROMANSTHEYREGOODENOVGHFORYOVFVRTHERMOREMANYWRITERSWRITEINALLLOWERCASELETTERSSVCHASCHARLESBVCOWSKIANDEECVMMINGSREADINGTHINGSWRITTENINALLCAPSISANEXCITINGTWISTONTHATPARTICVLARPHENOMENON
YOVRSSINCERELYACONCERNEDPATRICIAN