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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 40 KB, 292x500, Simulacra_and_Simulation_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6314900 No.6314900 [Reply] [Original]

Is there a better book for understanding life today than pic related?

If there is could you post it?

>> No.6314927

>>6314900
The Brothers Karamazov makes it so you go through life with the cheat codes on always.

>> No.6314940

>>6314900
That book is shit.

>> No.6314944

>>6314900
Explain why you think that convoluted book is essential reading.

>> No.6314956

>>6314927
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?

>> No.6315087

>>6314944
b/c I thnk all the convoluted ways how he describes society is true right now, so it is very important to know how things are

>> No.6315126

>>6314956
It instills in you an understanding that is no less than an advantage in life. To elaborate more would prime you and in doing so set an expectation that could deprive you of the benefit it may offer, or worse yet, set you up for disillusionment.

>> No.6315145

>>6315126
I read it a few years back in russian. I enjoyed it but I have no idea where you are coming from.

>> No.6315160

>>6315145
Reading the effect it has had on others suggests that it's not that I merely see something that isn't there. Maybe you should read it again.

>> No.6315173

>>6315160
Well what effect are you talking about? I read it cause I speak Russian and its a classic that was recommended to me by several people.
It was interesting but perhaps due to difference in the type of experiences we had in life, for me, what was written in the book was not so earth shattering as it was for you. Could that not be so?

Why not explain what you mean properly?
I will never read that book again anyway.

>> No.6315191

>>6315173
>Why not explain what you mean properly?
Because I've done it before and I don't feel like it, but for you, I will go into a little bit of detail.

The book strengthened my faith in God more than any religious text has that I have read. Through the many, profound monologues, I was instilled with the understanding of what it is to love God, to love existence, to love all that exists as it is only so by the will of the object of my love. To love God is to love all life and with this simple understanding, all interactions, whether with an infirmed man, a child, my cat, or a tree, are more significant because it reignites that love. Since reading the book, I have come to feel as if I have an advantage in that I view everything as equal, deserving of my attention and kindness unconditionally and you can imagine for yourself the benefits of this; anger, hatred, envy all cease to exist to the same extent because that man who stole from you or that girl who cheated on you is simply a creation of God, a creation of that which I love and so naturally that love extends to the person as well. This is how I have benefited, but I read half the book stoned so maybe that's what you're missing.

>> No.6315197

>>6315160
>>6315173

Nigga just embarrassed that everyone will rip his dumb opinion apart

>> No.6315198

>>6315145
>hey everybody I speak russian!!!!! durrrr

>> No.6315199

>>6315191
>>6315197
Exactly.

>> No.6315201

>>6314900
This Spake Zarathustra and the last man

>> No.6315208
File: 84 KB, 500x403, cmimg_53153.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6315208

French post-structuralists were just butthurt commies who couldn't admit that the Western world was objectively better than the Eastern bloc, so they invented a lot of bullshit reasons to hate it and portray it as oppressive, while they never said anything about the Stasi.

>> No.6315229

you'll like the society of spectacle

>> No.6315265

>>6315191
There we go. I do not believe in the "god" the bible describes nor have I yet to encounter a definition of "god" I could say I believe in.
This Is the reason why we have had a very different experience from reading this book.
I mean its not like I was not familiar with Dostoyevsky.
I read the Idiot before The Brothers Karamazov, I knew he was leaning towards religion and eventually became devout but I still found the dialogues in the book and the main character to be interesting.
Obviously it did not strengthen my religion since at that point I already had none.

Since you mentioned what you believe about people I will as well.
I believe people deserve respect and love not because of some incoherent(as i see it) higher intelligence but because it is both pragmatic and feels good.
We can see (through our historical experience)that nations and groups of people that have managed to create a unified society that takes care of its weak and tries to make as many people satisfied as it can, is a much more preferable society to live in over a Darwinian, wild wild west society, where the strong survive and the weak get trampled.
I acknowledge that punishment and rewards are only a mean to try and ensure everyone knows that it is beneficial to be productive and follow the rules.
Beyond that lies only revenge and hatred which might be justified for an individual that suffered lose but not for a society that wants to act rationally.

Further more I obviously do not believe in divine free will or a soul and thus realize that humans are merely another natural phenomenon, a biological robot, working according to its evolutionary programming.
We are all molded by our environment and the individuals in society that are chaotic and antisocial are merely so because of randomness and the natural workings of physical reality.
Who is to blame if a person that was molested as a child molests as an adult(as an example)? If it is known that it is a result of his childhood experience..
How can I hate him on a rational level?
I also rely on ideas like this for my moral views:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

That connect rationality with morality.
We must be moral and ensure a supportive society because it is rational and because we do not know our own place in it in the future, millionaires or thieves.

>> No.6315269

>>6315198
I only meant to say that I missed nothing of his intentions as a result of translation.
Also, dont be jelly.

>> No.6315290

>>6315265
Living my life based in what I described,
I do not hate, I try to be productive and helpful.
I dont feel there is any room or need for what you described.
I feel that I can, and have, gotten the result you desire with a concrete and grounded basis.

>> No.6315359

>>6315208
OP here, the western world is amazing, but a lot of people feel really awful, strange, alienated, sad, nervous.

it is easy to show how communism and the eastern bloc was awful. It takes more talent to say why discomfort exists still in the west. I think Baudrillard gave it a really good shot.

>> No.6315380
File: 2 KB, 500x500, ~~.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6315380

Harari's A Brief History of Humankind is great for getting a footing into how we got to where we are now. It also gives a good guess as to where we might go in the future - hint: amortality.

>> No.6315387

>>6314927
I remember reading it when I was younger and walking around with a cheeky grin on my face all the time like Alyosha, it wore off eventually.

>> No.6315405

>>6315380
>immortality

Can we make it anons?

>> No.6315412

Simulacra and Simulation isn't a polemic against western civilization by some Stalin-loving pinko. Rather, Baudrrillard identifies hyperreality and revels in it. It is the manic ecstasies of a world supersaturated with information and communication. I take greater pleasure in our civilization after reading Simulacra and Simulation than before. Communism is boring by comparison. We're living in exciting times.

>> No.6315427

>>6315380
You mean mass suicide?

>> No.6315449

>>6314940
No it's not!

>> No.6315454
File: 63 KB, 415x400, 022807_mcluhan_understandin-788713.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6315454

>>6314900
The yin to that book's yang OP

>> No.6315466

>>6315405
>born too late to explore the world
>born too soon for immortality
>born just in time to browse dank memes

>> No.6315467

>>6315412
Culture ideas and thought being rolled into an ever growing, ever thickening strudel.

>> No.6315483

>>6315380
>Harari

Shameless 19th century system-building.

>> No.6315484
File: 63 KB, 496x542, 55555.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6315484

>>6315412
i almost 100percent agree with you, except for pic related, and i was just laid off and am poor as hell

>> No.6315500

>>6315380
>Harari's A Brief History of Humankind
This. He also uploaded a series of lectures to youtube.

>> No.6315678

>>6315412
>I take greater pleasure in our civilization after reading Simulacra and Simulation than before.
Yeah, that's the point of propaganda.

Join your fucking union.

>> No.6315692

Its not the end-all perfect guide or explanation to modern life, however if you enjoyed S&S then you would probably also enjoy the "Society of the Spectacle" OP

>> No.6316184

>>6315678
i think, i hope, that by understanding reality and late capitalism the way baudrillard does, someone would be more interested in unionizing

>> No.6316187

>>6315692
hello, thanks for the suggestion, i loved that book too, as well as the revolution of everyday life which i thought was similar. I'm a sucker for cool aphorisms.

>> No.6316209

>>6316184
>that by understanding reality and late capitalism the way baudrillard does, someone would be more interested in unionizing.

They're not, they masturbate their own intellect. It is precisely what ideology is designed to do. It is as though the professional working class wishes to relive the horror of the 2nd international (until they 'get it right'); without actually understanding that the ideological critique of the 2nd international is historically wrong (august days were mostly a reaction of anti-war horror by workers, etc.).

So, yeah, while I once shared your hopes, I have no hope in any intellectual work being of any use unless it is intellectual work on and within a class organisation (and not a fucking "cross class" Leninist party).

>> No.6316401

>>6316209
all the activists i know are interested in fat-pride and complaining about mansplaining or manspreading :.( and giving talks as public intellectuals :.(

>> No.6316471

>>6316401
Join your union. The point of production wipes away all liberalism—admittedly it replaces it with the problems of labour fakirs, labour aristocrats, nomenklatura, new petits bourgeois, foreman-unionists, yellow dogs, scab. But these are all very brutal and direct problems in comparison with bourgeois progressive feminists attempting to destroy female working class subjectivity.

>> No.6318366

>>6315678
>>6316471
I am in my union. They rarely come out, if at all, even when there's a legitimate complaint that needs redressing. In fact, they're simply an extension of the corporation itself. They are absolutely complicit in the exploitation of the workers while pretending to espouse their cause.

Are you posting from the 1800s or 1980s? Have you never had a job in your life? What is going on here, fella? I can understand arguing workers needs greater representation -- they do -- but that doesn't exist in the unions. It did once. It doesn't now.

>> No.6318396

>>6318366
Unions aren't representative bodies when they're functional.

They're organisations that exist at the point of production. Other kinds of pop organisations get dealt with so brutally that they last less than six months.

>representations
No wonder they gave people the vote.

>> No.6318421

God, I used to write A+ undergrad papers using this as a source having never read the thing and just making up page numbers.

>> No.6318423

>>6315191
I thought what you learnt was how to get some hawt pussay
I was dissapointed

>> No.6318493

>>6318396
Unions are intended to represent the interests of the workers. It's the workers collectively joining together because in unity they have more leverage. It's out of the fledgling unions that socialism sprang and further, Karl Marx. They've also long since been crushed, contorted and disfigured. Literally, what are you talking about?

>> No.6318504

>>6318493
>represent
embody, be constituted by and constitutive of

>> No.6318577

>>6318504
You don't know how unions, particularly modern unions, work. It isn't how it's depicted and envisioned in a book from the 1800s nor how it's glorified by some tenured, marxist, bourgeoisie intellectual. A union isn't constituted by nor constitutive of. It's representative.

>> No.6318609

>>6318577
>A union isn't
I'm sorry, friend, the one I'm a member of is—you don't seem to know external reality from your arsehole, and you regularly confuse normative with evidentiary.

>> No.6318659

>>6318609
Mine is a very typical example of a union. It's an independent body outside work that workers contribute to in joining, providing the union with support and continued existence. The union itself, however, remains independent, operated by non-workers who represent workers' interests and negotiate on their behalf. This is how a union works.

You are a retard. I don't believe you've ever had a job in your life, and you're very much likely some spooked up, middle class, preppy, university student dickhead.

>> No.6320220

>>6318659
Keep saying that mate. Keep confusing your normative vision for reality. And keep believing that you're incapable of direct action. That's how labour fakirs took over your union in the first place.

>> No.6320244

kinda wanna make a union for people who don't have jobs and have to apply for jobs. me and all my laid off target workers are having a pretty bad time.

>> No.6320376

>>6314900
DeLillo is a good contender. White Noise and Mao II especially.

>> No.6320388

Barthes Mythologies is a bit less dramatic if just as radical attack on western media.