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/lit/ - Literature

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6293655 No.6293655[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I made this.

Yeah, the last anime aren't in alphabetical order, sorry.

>> No.6293659

Instead of wasting your time reading/viewing all of that "literary" manga and anime, why not just read real literature instead? If you insist on being a weeb, Japan has an actual literary tradition too, you know.

>> No.6293661

>>6293655
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>> No.6293664

Faggot weeb. Go away

>> No.6293677

>>6293655
Good chart OP.

>> No.6293678

>>6293659
Why can't you do both? Are you mentally impaired? You don't listen to music because you already read books?

>> No.6293681

>>6293678
Because anime is totally comparable to music as a form of art, lmao.

>> No.6293683

>>6293681
>lmao
Opinion discarded.

If you care about it good for you, if you don't care about it just close the thread.

>> No.6293691

>>6293655
thanks for the chart. i'm currently studying jp but have fallen out of touch with what's what in anime. can you recommend something similar to cowboy bebop?

>>6293659
true, most anime is like genre literature, utterly predictable or even if unpredictable it's no unpredictable in a meaningful way. however, gits/miyazaki/shinkai and a couple of other feature films do the genre enough justice not to dismiss it outright. have you actually watched any acclaimed (not just popular) anime?

>> No.6293703

>>6293681
Unless you're referring exclusively to Western Art music (and I know you don't, because you seem like a faggy /mu/tant), yes, anime is very much comparable.

>> No.6293707

>>6293691
>have you actually watched any acclaimed (not just popular) anime?

Yes and it was laughable.

>> No.6293710

>>6293655
Perfect Blue might be one of my favorite modern films and I'm honestly not sure why. It has plenty of stupid plot points and a weird, off-balance ending but the entire thing is just mesmerizing to me. On top of it all, I've yet to see a director use the Internet as a plot device the way Kon did.

>> No.6293713

>>6293707
Great, then your shitty opinion is set in stone. Please go find something else that scares you and get angry at people for liking it.

>> No.6293714
File: 34 KB, 379x426, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6293714

>Soil manga

OP, have you read anything by Keiichi Koike or Shintaro Kago?

>> No.6293738

>>6293713
Your gook cartoons are for people who are scared of growing up.

>> No.6293743

>>6293655https://i.4cdn.org/lit/1426872074934.jpg
Anime and manga can't be /lit/ because they're always genre fiction or cheap sentimental bulllshit

Post this chart on /a/, fat pseudo intellectual weebs will love it

>> No.6293749

fuck off 4chan queers
leave our subreddit alone

>> No.6293764

>>6293738
gook cartoons. I feel like your old white grandpa fucked you and you liked it so much now you try really hard to be exactly like him.

>> No.6293768

>>6293655
>Monster anime instead of manga
>Nausicaa manga instead of anime

>> No.6293772

>>6293768
>knowing what the hell that is
go away 4chan poster

>> No.6293800

>not watching Ghost in the Shell
>not watching Evangelion
>not watching Spirited Away
>not watching any of the other fantastic /lit/ heavy philosophic anime's.

Wow /lit/ it's like you don't even want to be a well rounded individual. I hate most anime, shit like Naruto and Bleach are utterly disgusting and should be laughed at. But anime's a medium. We don't shun books because Twilight and Harry Potter exist do we?

>> No.6293806

I seriously doubt that any of you could understand Ikuhara being the equal of Pynchon in Japanese cinema. Or comprehend Yuasa's prodigy. Or actually think about Kon's commentary on postmodern media. Or relate Anno to Kafka.

But don't watch any of their works. Just dismiss like you always do.

>> No.6293809

>>6293800
japanese fucking shit
your ancestors didn't give their lives in WWII so the japs could sell their retarded descendants gay children's movies

>> No.6293811

>>6293806

Based Anno is based.

>> No.6293814

>>6293800
the curse of ignorance

>> No.6293830

>>6293800

There is nothing inherently wrong with anime of course, but there's just not that many unmissable shows/movies out there.

>> No.6293832

>>6293800
>>not watching Ghost in the Shell
>>not watching Evangelion
>>not watching Spirited Away

That stuff is equivalent to genre fiction and YA fiction at best.

>> No.6293835
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6293835

>>6293655
That is... an unexpectedly good list.

>> No.6293836

>>6293710
Have you seen Black Swan yet? It's similar.

>> No.6293841

>>6293806

You could do that sure but you'd really be reaching in the extreme.

And I say that as a person who really admires Utena, Tatami Galaxy, Perfect Blue, and Evangelion.

>> No.6293846

>>6293832

To be fair, that's exactly how I've come to view anime now. The good shows/movies are like good light-reading material.

Although I guess I should point out that I'm not one of those /lit/ posters who think light-reading material is utterly worthless because it's not a masterpiece.

>> No.6293852

>>6293806
Just because you employ literary terms and analogues in describing them it doesn't make them any more meritorious. Dick and Gibson alone basically covered all of the ground that anime sci-fi is still coming to grips with to this day and they are hardly the pinnacle of Western letters themselves.

>> No.6293859

There isnt such a thing as lit anime manga stop trying to force it

>> No.6293864

>>6293846
>Although I guess I should point out that I'm not one of those /lit/ posters who think light-reading material is utterly worthless because it's not a masterpiece.

I guess I sympathise with that POV, but personally once I passed a certain threshold of literary knowledge I just naturally lost all interest in genre fiction.

>> No.6293866

>>6293832
That's your opinion. TSPDT ranked Spirited Away as the 4th best movie from the 00's

>> No.6293879

>>6293866
And that's just their opinion?

>> No.6293885
File: 585 KB, 1824x1300, LotSMK v11 p222-223.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6293885

>no Strongest Man Kurosawa

>> No.6293887

>>6293655
>No Psycho Pass

>> No.6293890

Is there any anime with characters that actually feel human? That has always been my #1 problem with the medium. There's no nuance or subtlety when it comes to characterisation. I tried Evangelion and Ergo Proxy and found them unbearable for that reason.

>> No.6293893

>>6293655
Someone made a manga adaption of No Longer Human?

>> No.6293894

>>6293890
not anime but see >>6293885

>> No.6293900

>>6293890
LotGH

>> No.6293918

>>6293841
I was merely pretending. Even though I like lurking in /lit/, I know almost nothing about literature and I don't like reading (to the extent that I don't read manga).

Now I wondered your views on Penguindrum, Kaiba and Paranoia Agent though.

>>6293852
You are right. I don't like science fiction anime anyway. Apart from Ergo Proxy, which is an unbound masterpiece.

>> No.6293921

>>6293866

That site puts way too much effort into rankings

>> No.6293925

>>6293918
>I know almost nothing about literature and I don't like reading
>Ergo Proxy is an unbound masterpiece
oh, it shows, anon

>> No.6293931

>>6293655
Good chart, but your definition of "literary" is somewhat arbitrary.

Things like Akira, Berserk, Giant Robo, et cetera are all pretty pulpy and shonen-esque. Not that they aren't fantastic regardless, but they're part of a different tradition than stuff like LoGH or Angel's Egg.

And Macross Plus but not the original? C'mon anon.

>> No.6293932

>>6293890
Try Kaiji and NHK.

>> No.6293943

>>6293890
You could try out stuff like Niea_7, Windy Tales and Only Yesterday and Seriel Experiments Lain.

>> No.6293945

>>6293655
>Macross Plus
The least you could do is put DYRL on there. Jeez

>> No.6293950

>>6293655
This isn't literature

>> No.6293955

>>6293931
I think you are right mostly. LoGH is as literary as Balzac.

>>6293925
Ergo Proxy is only comparable to 2001: A Space Odyssey maybe. If you disregard its excellence, you should be disregarded.

>> No.6293959

>>6293955
>LoGH is as literary as Balzac.

LoGH is an adaption of a series of books.

>> No.6293961

>>6293879
And you don't believe that there's maybe more to it if critics praise it? From your way of writing I'd assume that's the only thing you care about.

>> No.6293962

>>6293955
>LoGH is as literary as Balzac.
>>6293955
>Ergo Proxy is only comparable to 2001: A Space Odyssey

Holy shit, you are worse than that Gene Wolfe and Alan Moore guy.

>> No.6293965

>>6293959
So? You mean Harry Potter movies are literary?

(of course I know you're not implying that, I'm just sarcastically trying to ask your actual point)

>> No.6293967

>>6293959
Have the novels themselves been translated to English? I'd rather read them than watch an adaptation.

>> No.6293975
File: 406 KB, 1366x768, le fake husband face.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6293975

>>6293832
>Ghost in the Shell
>equivalent to genre fiction and YA fiction at best

>> No.6293976

>>6293962
>LoGH is as literary as Balzac.

Firstly, this part doesn't mean to scorn any of the two. It's just a parallelism, referring to the understandings of world building, romanticism and realism.

>Ergo Proxy is only comparable to 2001: A Space Odyssey

Secondly, I urge you to do everything you can to denounce Ergo Proxy. Please.

Lastly, I don't know much about Gene Wolfe and Alan Moore since I don't read. Sorry.

>> No.6293988

>>6293967
There's an unofficial translation of the chinese translation of the first book.

You can read it here if that interests you, might be better just to watch the series though since the other books aren't translated:

http://gineipaedia.com/wiki/Category:Book_I:_Dawn

>> No.6293990

>>6293975

Lol right you can't fully understand GitS unless you've experienced an existential crisis. The way she disregards her body and questions her ghost. SO MANY FEELS.

>> No.6293996

>>6293931
>>6293945
I thought Macross Plus was more mature than Macross/DYRL. I like Macross better than Plus. The point of the chart is not to list the best anime, it's to list anime and manga that people who enjoy literature might find interesting for whatever reason. If they watch Plus then they might be interested in watching the original afterwards.

>> No.6293997

>>6293961

Does that website actually write about films? All I can see is a ranking-chart and if so that's horribly depressing (for obvious reasons).

>> No.6294000

>>6293975
It heavily plagiarises William Gibson and Philip K Dick.

>> No.6294008

>>6293655
Thanks, OP.

I got back into anime last month after almost seven years of not caring about it. It's been good for practicing my Japanese listening skills. Hadn't heard of a few of those.

>> No.6294018

>>6294000

Originality is dead friend-o. You could argue, almost everything is based on Beowulf and the Saga of the Volsungs

You could also argue that Dick stole most of his material from the transcendentalists. So did the hippies.

>> No.6294026

>>6293768
There's another Urasawa manga and the Nausicaa manga is better than the movie.
>>6293887
And nothing of value was lost.

>> No.6294037

>>6294008
I did notice only one of my favorites wasn't there though. Would you not think of Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou as literary?

Also is Music of Marie finally finished being scanlated yet?

>> No.6294038
File: 54 KB, 500x281, kelekinternet.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6294038

>>6294018
You are mostly right. Also, most of the time, I'd rather saying Gilgamesh instead of Beowulf. Anyway.

To all:
Please, spare some time and first, read all of Miyazawa Kenji's works. Or most of them. Then watch Ginga Tetsudou no Yoru. Then watch Spring & Chaos. Then study a little modern Japanese history. Then, watch Mawaru Penguindrum. Twice. Until you get used to it. Finally, get rid of your prejudices and patrician elitism.

Then squint in adoration.

>> No.6294043

>>6294000
That's the thing, it takes almost nothing from Dick. Same with Gibson. It's its own thing.

>> No.6294047

>>6294038
You should really read actual literature. All of the things you listed are average literature. I stopped watching anime when I started reading because anime is just inferior.

>> No.6294050

Pretty decent list. Good to see Tatsumi and Tezuka represented. Even if you don't give a single fuck about manga their works are worth checking out.

>> No.6294052

>>6294047
Why do you not think Kenji Miyazawa is real literature? He wrote more than children's stories, but even writing children's stories doesn't make him not "real" literature.

>> No.6294053

>>6294047
Please tell a few examples for above average literature and we will discuss. I mean, I would like to.

>> No.6294055
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6294055

>all this tezuka manga but no barbara

It's the most /lit/ manga though. It's about a pretentious douchebag writer and his muse who may or may not be a figment of his imagination.

>> No.6294056

>>6294053
You should have specified he name above average Japanese literature, for an apt comparison. Unless it's one of the "die gooks" people in the thread.

>> No.6294062

get our of our board you fucking perverts

>> No.6294066

>>6294056
Well, OK, we have time, let him come with his own arguements and examples, I say.

>> No.6294081
File: 1.63 MB, 1682x1200, Barbara (2012) (Digital) (Jäger-Empire) 419.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6294081

>>6294055
also related

>> No.6294090

For people who don't like "genre" literature I would recommend these.

Anime:

Angel's Egg
Jin-Roh
Kaiji
Millennium Actress
Monster
Only Yesterday
Porco Rosso
Welcome to the NHK
Whisper of the Heart
World Masterpiece Theater

Manga:

Adolf
Aku no Hana
Everything by Jiro Taniguchi
Dousei Jidai
A Drifting Life
G Senjou Heaven's Door
Kokou no Hito
No longer Human
Punpun
Real
Tomorrow's Joe

But if you don't take the rest into consideration you're gonna miss a lot.

>> No.6294093

>>6294090
>No longer Human

Why not just read the novel?

>> No.6294094

>>6293997
They take critics and directors opinions into consideration and form some sort of consensus. At least I assume that since they only seem to have lists and quotes on their website.

>> No.6294098

>>6294093
Why not do both?

You never watched a film adaption bro?

>> No.6294101

>>6294090
Hello. Sorry for interrupting, but I wouldn't consider part of the works there even good as "anime".

>> No.6294110

>>6294037
I just realized I forgot to add YKK. I don't know what the fuck happened, I think I deleted it off the list by mistake.

Music of Marie is completely scanlated.

>> No.6294111

>>6294101
Which part?

>> No.6294124

>>6294111
NHK and Monster definetely. I haven't watched WotH and Only Yesterday because I don't like Takahata. I assume those two are as bad as GotF. And, Porco Rosso, because it's probably one of the weaker Miyazaki movies, who's not that strong overall anyway (despite all the reputation he has in the anime industry).

>> No.6294132

>>6294124
Adolf Aku no Hana and Punpun aren't any good either.

>> No.6294136

>>6294132
No idea. As I said, I don't read. But I'll believe your word.

>> No.6294137

>>6294124
>>6294132
What would have you put instead?

>> No.6294138

>>6294136
>doesn't even read manga
what the hell
why are you here

>> No.6294139

>>6294132
>Aku no Hana and Punpun aren't any good either.
What a funny one you are.

>> No.6294142

>>6294124
Is English your native language?

>> No.6294145

>>6294139
Adolf is better than either of those why'd you pick those two to defend though I agree they're good

>> No.6294163

>>6294137
Well... I'd recommend Mind Game, for starters. And Paprika, that's not really genre. Cat Soup. NotGR. Robot Carnival. Genius Party. Just a few movies and compilations that came to my mind. I'd have to think harder to filter series.

>>6294138
People are fun. Best board on this site. Has philosophy.

>> No.6294164

>>6294142
It's not. Shows that much?

>> No.6294175

https://youtu.be/sZEtf8H1o5M
offical song

>> No.6294184

>>6294163
Are you that Japanese Steel guy?

>> No.6294188

>>6294163
Mind Game and Paprika are on the chart.

>> No.6294190

>>6294098
>You never watched a film adaption bro?

Unfortunately, far too often.

>> No.6294193

>>6294184
No idea what you're talking about, so, probably no. I'm a Turkish-speaking resident who floats to the surface only once a month or something like that.

>> No.6294200

>>6293990
Great arguments :^)

>>6294000
I bet these 2 authors lived in an all white room with nothing that could influence them

>> No.6294203

>>6294188
I thought we were talking about this list:
>>6294090

Since Angel's Egg was on the initial chart too, I didn't recognize it as an addition, sorry.

>> No.6294232

>>6294203
Ok, sorry, then the answer to your first question is obviously yes, I consider them to be very good anime. The other Ghibli movies are less "literary" than the ones I chose, in my opinion.

>> No.6294248

>>6294232
OK then. I'll watch one tonight.

Also, what do you think about Gauche the Cellist?

>> No.6294255

>>6294200

Transcendentalists heavily influenced them both, and the creators of GITS. And the hippies. Transcendentalists were bretty cool guys/girls.

>> No.6294268
File: 95 KB, 270x400, The_Girl_Who_Leapt_Through_Time_poster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6294268

>>6293655
Good shit but you missed this one

>> No.6294283

>>6294255
Oshii was in seminary, he wasn't influenced by transcendentalists.
>>6294268
No, I didn't.

>> No.6294286

>>6294268
Watched. I am one hundred percent against this movie thrown among the likes of that are on the list. I tried to justify its praise, but couldn't. Decided Hosoda is the second Shinkai for me.

Also, why don't we talk about Kino no Tabi? That ninth episode was about literature, and very properly done. I remember loving it.

>> No.6294291

>>6294268
He didn't by any standard.

>> No.6294303

>>6294283
>>6294286

You're probably both right, you're definitely both more well versed in anime than me but I thoroughly enjoyed that and consider it one of the best anime films i've seen.

That being said, i've not seen a fuck-tonne and intend to make my way through OPs list... maybe it'll change my opinion, but for now i'm standing by it.

>> No.6294323

>>6294303
I'd say... Start by watching Kon. Nobody dislikes him. He's like the upper parallel of Miyazaki. He was even headed in that "more than ten overall fine movies" direction, had he not died.

>> No.6294331

>>6294323
Okay, thanks anon. Any rec on which of his works to start with?

Also is this list just for feature length stuff? If series can be included then surely Baccano! is pretty fucking /lit/

>> No.6294351

>>6294331
Both films and series are included. Baccano isn't particularly good.

>> No.6294379

>>6294331
That list includes series, but I doubt OP would consider Baccano fitting. I'm not saying it's definetely not, since I haven't watched it.

About Kon... No, not really. I guess you could go any way you want. I personally consider Paranoia Agent to be his best, so maybe you could start from there, in order to get enthusiastic about the other works.

List of the works that he has his hands on: Perfect Blue (movie), Paprika (movie), Millenium Actress (movie), Tokyo Godfathers (movie), Paranoia Agent (series), Good Morning / Ohio (very short movie).

If I remember correctly, he also took part in Roujin Z and Memories, not very important tasks like "director" though.

>> No.6294399

>>6294379
>>6294331
Start with Memories, the Magnetic Rose segment. Afro's encode, obviously.
Now that's some good shit.

>> No.6294401

>>6294351
Disagree with you there i'm afraid.
Either our tastes are just different or i'm yet to have my eyes opened to the best of the best but Baccano's fucking sick and full to the brim of philosophical and literary references.

>>6294379
Alright nice one, i'll definitely be checking him out.


ciao

>> No.6294404

>>6294399
Cool thanks for the recs fellas

>> No.6294405

>>6294399
Oh, yeah, forgot to say Kon adapted the screenplay.

>> No.6294410

>>6294404
It's just one, the Magnetic Rose segment of Memories.
Since Kon hasn't done so many anime I'd say it's best to just watch them chronologically.

>> No.6294413

>>6294404
You're welcome, from my side.

>>6294405
Also, OP... I really want to ask what merit does Monster hold, from your perspective. I watched it once and I was really disappointed. Maybe there were things that I didn't comprehend. Or maybe I hate realism too much. Anyway, I'd like to discuss that.

>> No.6294429

>>6294413
You're asking the wrong person, I don't particularly like Monster.
But I think it has a lot of parallels with (genre) literature.

>> No.6294436

>>6294413
>>6294410
Oh, and (sorry for the tenacity), why are Ergo Proxy and Mawaru Penguindrum not on that list? I'd sacrifice a lot of my time arguing on behalf on them.

>> No.6294439

>>6294429
OK, that's how I thought mostly. Thought it was kind of your personal chart.

>> No.6294454

>>6294439
Sorry, messed up sentences. I meant that I felt the same way about Monster and thought the chart represented your personal opinions, not a more general scaled viewpoint.

>> No.6294468

>>6294436
Because there are other things. Can't include everything. If I feel like it I can still modify the chart in the future, it's not like it's perfect and my knowledge of anime and manga isn't total.
I just made a chart, it should be a start for /lit/fags to enter the realm of weebs, it's not "The One and Only True Chart of Best /lit/ Anime & Manga".
You're free to make the chart better, just don't put shit on only because you liked it.

>> No.6294478

>>6294454
Exactly. There are a lot of anime and manga I like that didn't make it in the chart.

>> No.6294479

>>6294468
Ergo Proxy should by your standard be on the list. It's if anything better than Macross Plus or Now and Then.

>> No.6294506

>>6294478
>>6294468
Yeah, OK. A message to the public then: Ergo Proxy and Mawaru Penguindrum are good. For me, two of the best bunch.

>> No.6294695

>>6293655
You're missing Saikyou Densetsu Kurosawa and Ganketsuou you faggot.

>> No.6294728

>>6294695
He has Ganketsuou. Listed after Casshern Sins.

>> No.6294738

>>6294728
My bad, I didn't notice. Still, a major disappointment that Saikyou Densetsu Kurosawa is missing.