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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Mon Mar 16 17:03:06 2015 No.6278533 [DELETED]

[Reply] [Original]

Are Liberals self-defeating in their pursuit to abolish war?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 17:08:31 2015 No.6278561 >>/pol/ who would you wage war against if you had no enemies left?

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 17:09:31 2015 No.6278568
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" When a state fights its political enemy in the name of humanity it is not a war for the sake of humanity, but a war wherein a particular state seeks to usurp a universal concept against its military opponents. (…) The concept of humanity is an especially useful ideological instrument of imperialist expansion, and in its ethical-humanitarian form it is a specific vehicle of economic imperialism."

Carl Schmitt, The Concept of the Political

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 17:13:24 2015 No.6278591 Liberalism fights for an inside without an outside; for a polity without boundaries. But it perpetually reproduces the boundaries it seeks to eradicate. So yes, it is self-defeating.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:02:19 2015 No.6279140 >>6278561 expecting everyone to do the same is doomed to failure. You need only one nation that don't reject war for your system to fail.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:04:28 2015 No.6279147 >>6278533 Liberalism isn't anti war, the western military engagements of the 90s and 00s where promoted and supported by liberals.

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:07:42 2015 No.6279160
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>>6278533
>conservatism recognizes inherent inequalities as a necessary evil in a stable society instead of trying to abolish them in the name of human rights
>conservatism recognizes war as a necessary evil in maintaining the balance of power in the world, while liberalism seeks to prevent it through further consolidation of power into fewer hands

Leftism just seems naive in comparison to conservatism, so why are you guys leftists?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:11:33 2015 No.6279170 >>6279160 Let's put it this way, conservatism view society as in survival mode, liberalism/leftism view it as in self-improvement mode. Both can be justified at different times, or at the same time in regard to different things.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:13:27 2015 No.6279176 >>6279170 You can't improve if you aren't trying to survive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:14:30 2015 No.6279181 >>6279176 You can't survive if you aren't trying to improve.

>>	Phil Ossiferz Stone !!esSirF6LRYN Mon Mar 16 20:15:15 2015 No.6279185 File: 455 KB, 598x400, murdercube prayer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] War... war never changes....

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:15:19 2015 No.6279186

>>6279170
so when the globalization of economics has created one of the most precarious economic situations in history and when the UN is demonstrating its inherent corruption by continually overlooking the abuses of the Israeli government against the Palestinian people, how is this a time for more leftism?

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:18:47 2015 No.6279199

>>6279186
>I am compulsed to bring up Israel because that is the biggest problem of our day and age
You're too easy to spot, /pol/.

Also, doesn't the left attempt to devise plans on how to solve these issues, while the right advocates hunkering down and see if it will hit others harder than you? Sure looks like it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:25:30 2015 No.6279216 >>6279185 AVE NEX ALEA

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:26:25 2015 No.6279221

>>6279199
What is wrong with isolationism though? I mean either you can tie your economy to the rest of the world and have a superpower like the US fail because of a domino effect that starts in a comparative non-entity like Greece or you can opt out of the global system and let each nation take responsibility for itself. Economic disaster happens on a much smaller scale in this case.

also

>hating on Israel is purely a /pol/ack thing

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:30:41 2015 No.6279233

>>6279221
>you can opt out of the global system
And that is what we call 'delusion'. Doing that would probably be more difficult than actually building a working communist utopia.

>hating on Israel is purely a /pol/ack thing
I know how popular it is, but bringing it up completely out of context gives the /pol/turd away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:32:14 2015 No.6279240 >>6279199 >inplying the right is exclusively isolationist >implying the left is can not be isolationist >left-right dichotomy

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:34:43 2015 No.6279250 >>6279240 >is can not be you're right, this isn't actually possible

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:35:12 2015 No.6279253 >>6279233 Any anti-Zionist on 4chan is bound to be connected to /pol/, it really doesn't add to discussions to point it out. Get over it, Schlomo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:37:42 2015 No.6279268 >>6279233 No, because it is probably the most obvious sign of corruption in the UN and therefore demonstrates the global governing entity is flawed as any other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:38:06 2015 No.6279270 >>6279233 >>6279253 >anti israel is pol love this meme hurr durr if you don't like warcrimes and bombing civs you are a pollack

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:38:16 2015 No.6279271 >>6279253 >it really doesn't add to discussions to point it out Neither do completely random blurts of anti-zionist sentiment. What do you expect us to do, sit idly by while you retards ruin our board with your shit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:40:22 2015 No.6279283 >>6279270 The point was that it was completely besides the point to bring up israel, dipshit. It just betrays an unhealthy obsession that should stay on a certain containment board.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:41:51 2015 No.6279290 >>6279271 Israel is a prime example of the corruption and ineffectiveness of the UN. Do you disagree?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:42:49 2015 No.6279296 /LIT/ LITERATURE

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:43:17 2015 No.6279297 >>6278561 You assume that we can ever reach that stage where there are no enemies.

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:45:58 2015 No.6279302

>>6279290
Yes, when you have stuff like Syria or Congo going on at the same time. Or think about Bosnia, where UN troops made way for death squads. Think about Rwanda, when the UN refused to call it a genocide so they wouldn't have to intervene. Calling Israel a prime example of what is wrong with the UN is a prime example of stupidity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:48:02 2015 No.6279312 >>6279268 But they don't overlook them. The uncalled israel out. It just lacks ability to enforce change in Israeli policy. America doesn't actually call them out. But saying American politics is corrupt isn't exactly new.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:48:54 2015 No.6279317 >>6279312 Guess who has the most influence on the security council doh ;^)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:50:24 2015 No.6279327 >>6279317 Each member can veto, and has the same voting power, so, all of them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:52:16 2015 No.6279338 >>6279327 >he actually believes this is how it works in practice

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:56:00 2015 No.6279353 >>6279327 Only the 5 permanent members have veto power. The other members vote how they are told or don't get other things they want.

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:57:23 2015 No.6279355

>>6279186
> UN is demonstrating its inherent corruption by continually overlooking the abuses of the Israeli government against the Palestinian people

This is demonstrably not true. The UN shat on them just as equally as they shat on Gaza for inflating statistics. Israel is actually starting to receive quite a bit of flak now, as people start to get tired of the "B-B-BUH YOU'RE AN ANTI-SEMITE" rebuttal. I would honestly give it ten-fifteen more years. In addition to this, more grass root movements are occurring in the U.S. (I've only actually seen it on University campuses, but I hope it spreads) so, hopefully, it's brought under a critical light.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 20:58:25 2015 No.6279359 >>6279353 So, give the occasional additional member voting power! This will solve everthing! You fucking idiot!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:02:16 2015 No.6279376 >>6279355 The UN has shat on Israel ever since 1967, Israel has gotten more flak from the UN than any other country. This, however, will never make you think, because, unfortunately you can't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:04:14 2015 No.6279384 >>6279176 >>6279181 Bravo guys, you've figured out that binary thinking isn't always useful and we should try to recognise the benefits of conservatism and liberalism.

Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:07:10 2015 No.6279394

>>6279355
It's been brought under a critical light continuously ever since the Six Day War, don't kid yourself that we have reached a turning point or anything. The ongoing decay of churches as a public institution in the US is contributing far more to decreasing support for Israel than any amount of university protests which are practically by definition shit that hasn't been relevant since the Nixon era. People can complain all they want but as long as AIPAC and CUI have Congress by the balls, nothing will change. AIPAC will never change their stance and CUI is only gonna lose public appeal if Palestinian leadership goes full Gandhi, and maybe not even then. And what are the odds of that, in the Middle East? As long as IS exists the Israeli government isn't going to even consider giving Palestine any real respect or recognition, much less quit beating them up for lunch money.

>"B-B-BUH YOU'RE AN ANTI-SEMITE"

nobody has ever gotten tired of this defense except on 4chan. to successfully get branded an anti-semite in the US is public image permadeath and ensures that nobody will ever take you seriously again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:07:20 2015 No.6279395 >>6279296 Literature exists in a political context and constantly engages with it so why not

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:10:52 2015 No.6279406 >>6279317 Yes, but that's an issue of American politics. If I'm driving my chevy and the nissan behind me has a wonky accelerator that locks up and causes him to rearend me I can't very well blame Chevrolet for the accident, can I?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:16:05 2015 No.6279432 File: 379 KB, 799x799, 20thcenturywarfare.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6278533 >Going to war in the 21st century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnppCelvk0

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:18:18 2015 No.6279441 >>6279384 shut up cuck fagot libral filth

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