Why the fuck do left-wing people like Nietzsche when he constantly shit on democracy, feminism, and all of the things they like?

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Anonymous Sat Mar 14 00:58:43 2015 No.6266652 [Reply] [Original]

Why the fuck do left-wing people like Nietzsche when he constantly shit on democracy, feminism, and all of the things they like?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 00:59:34 2015 No.6266655 I don't

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:00:36 2015 No.6266660 >>6266652 because you make sweeping generalizations of the left-wing

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:01:12 2015 No.6266662 Maybe the world isn't so black-and-white for others.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:02:29 2015 No.6266666 he shits on the things right wingers like too. he wasn't very political in either direction.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:03:31 2015 No.6266670

Here are the characteristics of Nietzsche’s thought that are not only amenable to traditional leftist critical concerns, but have either directly or indirectly (virally) influenced it:

1.) Extreme, generalized iconoclasm.

2.) Extreme anti-religious views; a view of Christianity as a slave morality, for example; it is a “herd morality,” and its influence is a misfortune for society: it stymies full, individual self-realization

3.) A type of anti-statism: “The state is the coldest of all old monsters. Coldly, it lies, too; and this lie creeps from its mouth: ‘I, the state, am the people.'” [Thus Spoke Zarathustra] Compare this statement of Nietzsche to the fascist conception of the state, which is 100% opposite to this.

4.) Dislike of anti-Semitism and German nationalism. (“The damnable German anti-Semitism” – from Ecce Homo)

5.) A view that social forces conspire to deny individuals’ individuality and the realization of their latent powers.

6.) A view of power relations and a genealogy of morals showing how ideology (“morals”) could manufacture consent for unjust power relations between people, or the status quo.

7.) The idea that a New World – a new, greater form of society – was possible and necessary for humans to achieve greatness.

8.) The idea of “will to power” bringing forth a new kind of man, a “Superman,” contrasted with Marxist idea of man’s alienation from labor, and how reconciling that alienation would also produce full-realized individuals – “supermen” in the fully-realized, socialist sense of non-alienated people.

These are Nietzsche’s ideas that are not amenable, and are even hostile, to traditional leftist thought:

1.) Hatred of democracy (“a mania for counting noses.”)

2.) Dislike of socialism as a herd or slave morality similar to Christianity.

3.) Misogyny.

4.) Seemed to believe in a “natural” system of elites and aristocrats under whom lessers would simply have to endure.

5.) Nietzsche’s extreme individualism is often counterposed to actions of social solidarity; sometimes a type of contrarian solipsism seems to be endorsed by Nietzsche.

6.) Inconsistent views on racial or ethnic characteristics, sometimes essentializing nationalities and other ethnicities.

7.) Dislike of anarchism and most anti-authoritarian type thought as being the product of envious, jealous individuals resentful of their own impotence.

8.) General inconsistency in his views. Nietzsche’s views can contradict one another from book to book, even from paragraph to paragraph. You cannot tease out one consistent set of principles/ethics from Nietzsche’s complete works. In fact, Nietzsche admitted he hated consistency, and also called philosophical systems “shining mirages.”

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:39:45 2015 No.6266754 >>6266652 the moustache you're welcome

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:42:21 2015 No.6266764 >>6266652 >feminism >left wing

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:48:49 2015 No.6266772 Nietzsche wasn't political, retards.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:50:48 2015 No.6266782 File: 39 KB, 361x649, 1426312248953.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is this really neet-chan?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 01:53:51 2015 No.6266790 >>6266782 nol

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 02:07:35 2015 No.6266829 >>6266782 Yeesh, they're all... doughy. "People were skinnier back then" my ass, everyone was just skinnyfat.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 02:11:51 2015 No.6266845

>>6266662
This. Not everyone see's through a one dimensional political scope. Furthermore, all those leftists OP knows might be reading what they feel they can learn something from. This is indeed quite different from Fox News style self conformation reading.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 03:46:06 2015 No.6267015

>>6266652
1. The left is made up of many different people

2. Democracy is not a left-wing or right-wing idea, more a system to be left/right in

3. The left-wing has lots of hypocrisies, this is just another

4. Many on the Left haven't read all of his works and don't actually know all of his opinions. The opinions they do know being those which agree most with Leftism

5. It is pretty normal considering they Idolize Che Guevara & Mahatma Gandhi, both known to have a severe disdain for blacks, and in Mahatmas case, a rather conservative outlook on many ideas

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 03:52:36 2015 No.6267029 >>6266652 He doesn't "shit" on it. He exposes hypocrisy. Which is different. You're probably one of those people who think Nietzsche "preferred" master-morality to slave-morality.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 03:54:08 2015 No.6267031 >>6266829 skinnyfat is the dumbest thing i have ever heard since when is a slim body a bad thing? fuck off zyzz

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:01:25 2015 No.6267041 File: 60 KB, 362x365, wow1[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6266666 M-master!

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:01:37 2015 No.6267042 >>6266782 Of course, that was when he double teamed Lou with Ree. Don't you remember the chapter in Ecce Homo where he mentions it?

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:02:45 2015 No.6267043

>>6266670
Nietzsche's hatred of democracy doesn't necessarily infer that one is anti-democratic taking it on it's own. There's plenty of leftists who critique democracy as it is present in late-capitalism in a way that echoes Nietzsche some but are still democratic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:06:06 2015 No.6267047 >>6267031 If you have no muscle definition it is a bad thing. It's not hard to go for a run, lift some weights or just do some push ups. Nobody likes a doughy cunt with no muscles.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:08:18 2015 No.6267052 >>6266652 I'm a leftist and I shit on feminism, too. But I don't like Neitzsche.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:11:18 2015 No.6267056 >>6267052 >But I don't like Neitzsche. Why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:14:22 2015 No.6267058 >>6267056 I don't like Germans.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:15:01 2015 No.6267059 >>6266782 >tfw you're bigger than nietzsche

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:17:42 2015 No.6267065 >>6267058 >A leftist hating someone for no other reason than a person's nationality/ethnicity I guess this once again proves my thesis that Nazis are actually on the left.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:18:53 2015 No.6267067 >>6267047 That will just turn skinnyfat into skinny.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:20:19 2015 No.6267071 >>6267059 Neet's glutes are uber though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:26:13 2015 No.6267080 >>6267067 At least a skinny person can have definition.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:27:43 2015 No.6267085 >>6267065 Of course Nazis are leftists, they're socialists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:30:14 2015 No.6267088 >>6267085 Of course North Korea is a democratic republic. It's right there in the name!

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:33:36 2015 No.6267097 >>6267088 But National Socialism is a form of socialism, just because they're only socialists to the one people doesn't make them any less socialist economically.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:35:40 2015 No.6267101 >>6267085 >Of course Nazis are leftists, they're socialists. There is no "of course". Most people associate NatSocs with right-wing politics because of the authoritarianism and racism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:39:27 2015 No.6267109 >>6267101 Racism isn't right wing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:40:09 2015 No.6267110 >>6267101 Racism and authoritarianism are also prevalent in left wing politcs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:40:31 2015 No.6267112 >>6267109 I am well aware. But most people do not seem to understand this, because the media calls Nazis for right-wing extremists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:42:29 2015 No.6267119 >>6267112 Which is weird because right wing extremists would actually be violent absolute monarchists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:42:30 2015 No.6267120 >>6267085 The Sam Hyde thread is really bringing all the brains back to /lit/

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:43:30 2015 No.6267125 >>6267120 Who?

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:43:50 2015 No.6267127

>>6266652
Because he deconstructed traditional morality as oppression of the individual at the hands of the masses. Also, he delivered a critique of truth as a social construct.
Basically, the right is on board with Nietzsche the guy who formulated new ideals for a new society, while the left ks ln board with Nietzsche the critic of ideology. Few people have ever been on board with both, which is fine, because guess what, you don't have to agree with everything some dude says.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:49:27 2015 No.6267134 File: 3.76 MB, 5176x3519, Wismut_Kristall_und_1cm3_Wuerfel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why do people think you have to agree with a philosopher's entire thought system to like them? Nietzsche was an inspiring writer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 04:54:19 2015 No.6267141 >>6267134 >Why do people think you have to agree with a philosopher's entire thought system to like them? Because people are ignorant in philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 05:12:33 2015 No.6267163 >>6266782 You guys this ain't him, right? There are very few google results and they all come from the same website (pinterest), plus there's the obvious fact these people wouldn't do a pic like that.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 05:24:16 2015 No.6267179

I'm left wing (Marxist) and Nietzsche is by far my favorite philosopher. I don't see this as an issue at all. If you think that it's impossible to be left wing and admire Nietzsche then it's pretty obvious that you view philosophers as religious figures who have to be followed uncritically. I have pretty severe contempt for anyone who views philosophers as "gurus" and thinks that their favorite philosopher was right about literally everything. It is an infantile, childish state of mind. To put it in Nietzschean terms, it is... Slavish!

Beyond that though I think that even the aspects of Nietzsche that are traditionally thought of as being anti-leftist, are useful to leftism itself. I favor a muscular leftism in the tradition of Cuban revolution, not an effeminate SJW victomology and banning of testosterone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 08:49:39 2015 No.6267513 >>6266652 because le edgy anarchists and their fucking bourgeois "individualism" appeals to their petty-bourgeois moralist anit-authoritarianism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 08:51:56 2015 No.6267520 >>6266652 >left-wing >consistency kek pick one

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 09:56:28 2015 No.6267732 File: 45 KB, 500x379, tumblr_nkdqdmpoej1slixf5o1_r1_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Read genealogy of morals and you will undesrtand it

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:21:58 2015 No.6268318 >>6267015 >Democracy is not a left-wing or right-wing idea Democracy is definitively leftist. >>6267067 that's an improvement from a mini beer gut

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:24:20 2015 No.6268327 >>6266782 look at that thick fucking body is she fat? her top half looks 'normal'

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:25:45 2015 No.6268336 >>6267047 uh, running isn't going to help you for one bit if you're skinny fat.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:27:04 2015 No.6268342

>>6267088
Does democracy necessitate elections? Pyongyang was founded on popular uprising, a people powered movement. In what way is that not democratic?

>>6267101
Would they consider the Soviet Union a right-wing regime? Or the Jacobin regime progressive? They try to paint Fascism/National Socialism as 'right wing' but in reality it is only a competing strain of radical third estate ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:27:08 2015 No.6268343 Short answer: they don't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 12:38:21 2015 No.6268377 >>6266652 >>6264579 out of everything you could pick the shitty labor theory of value is used all the time in the real world

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:10:18 2015 No.6268496

>>6267029
Nietzsche objectively hated modern democracy. I do not think he prefered master morality, but I have read all of his books and he never once put modern democracy in a good light nor did he say the issue was nuanced. Though he does respect Pericles, which perhaps he would consider to be a different brreed of democrat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:12:26 2015 No.6268507 >>6267179 It's pretty obvious you think Nietzsche's political opinions are simply extraneous remarks and don't result from the very core of his thought.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:19:56 2015 No.6268523 >>6266652 Nietzsche is awesome. If a lefty likes him, it means there's still hope for that person.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:24:34 2015 No.6268544

>>6267179
Isn't leftism, Marxoid ideology in particular, slave morality? It seems to resent the success of individuals rather than praise their creativity and ability. The desideratum is to take from the successful and cut them down, rather than build up the meek and make them strong. Fixed pie, rather than one that can be expanded.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:27:26 2015 No.6268552

>>6267097
All of the Socialists in the NDSAP were purged in 1933. Nazi Germany functioned along a corporatist/state Capitalist line. Workers had no rights, democracy was nonexistant, and no advances were made in worker emancipation.

>>6268507
And thats a perfectly valid way to think of it because Nietzsche never makes one positive affirming statement in relation to any given political system. Politicizing him is counter productive.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:32:07 2015 No.6268563

>>6268544
No, Marxism is an economic analysis of society. An analysis of the contradictions of Capitalism, its long term effects. Marx is in many regards a proto-keynes.

Socialism, furthermore, has no problems with inequality and some people being more successful than others, so long as that success is the product of their own labour and not exploitation.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:37:10 2015 No.6268578

>>6268552
he does though, constantly does he call for the necessity of an order of rank and for the renaissance virtue of Borgia, also Caesar, Thucydides, and so on. "One herd and no herdsman" is the motto for the people he despises. Nietzsche is at odds with your ideology - and not because of some opinion, but because he thinks your ideology promotes nihilism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:39:53 2015 No.6268585 >>6266764 pick two

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:41:15 2015 No.6268590 >>6266652 Because separately from his personal views, Nietzsche is one of the first and boldest post-modernists, and this left-wing people can very relate to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:43:24 2015 No.6268599 >>6268552 If you think Nietzsche could possibly support somthing like Socialism you dont get him at all.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:48:43 2015 No.6268623

>>6268599
If you think Nietzsche would support any political system you don't get him at all.

Aristocracies and power structures based on rank fall apart when not enforced externally by state violence, and Nietzsche hates the state.

His political views are contrarian as fuck, he contradicts himself constantly on them (half of which is clearly intentional), and they simply aren't fleshed out at all at the end of the day.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 13:54:39 2015 No.6268644

>>6268623
You mistake him for an anarchist it seems, Nietzsche was clearly against anarchism.
I'm not ever interested in arguing for any system he might have supported - but he clearly believed ranks and superiority of some individuals above others to be natural and essential.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 14:00:21 2015 No.6268665

>>6268644
No he hated anarchy too, sure. But his insistence on the superiority of some individuals is completely baseless because he also hatred the only thing that can support hierarchy: institutionalized violence.

What use is there trying to discern nuanced political views from an individual who hated anarchy and the state at the same time, and was intentionally informatory and contrarian beyond what he may have actually thought simply because he wanted to rile people up?

I like Nietzsche but I originally said politicizing him was pointless because it is genuinely counter-productive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 14:01:03 2015 No.6268667 >>6266652 The same reason they like Ché Guevara and wear a fucking T-shirt with his image on it.

Anonymous Sat Mar 14 14:10:32 2015 No.6268690

>>6268665
I completely agree that you could never claim that Nietzsche was/would have been a supported of any political system.
While I do think he would concile with some systems better than he would with socialism, what I was mainly trying to convey is that he was clearly anti-socialism regardelss of not exactly supporting anything else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 14 15:24:45 2015 No.6268958 >>6267065 Nationality, not ethnicity. Hating someone for their nationality does not make one a Nazi.

Anonymous Sun Mar 15 00:59:56 2015 No.6271294

>>6267179
>I favor a muscular leftism in the tradition of Cuban revolution, not an effeminate SJW victomology and banning of testosterone.

You call yourself a a leftist but espouse the traditional conservative gender binary that men are strong and good and women are weaklings who just want to be victims? You seem more like a reactionary than a revolutionary.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 01:04:12 2015 No.6271310 >>6266782 They're all skinnyfat manlet shits. Except the girl. The girl is high test.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 01:05:24 2015 No.6271313 File: 120 KB, 474x528, tipsfedora.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6267179 >I'm left wing (Marxist)

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 01:09:42 2015 No.6271332 >>6268667 COME ON ANON, TELL ME THE TRUTH, WHY DO THEY DO SUCH THINGS? IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE A FLOCK OF SHEEPS?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 04:56:19 2015 No.6271853 >>6266652 He shits on the opposite too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 04:58:11 2015 No.6271856 >>6267127 This dude knows.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 04:59:35 2015 No.6271860 I absolutely despise Nietzsche, he's akin to today's edgy fedora-tipping "In this moment I am euphoric" redditor

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 07:52:22 2015 No.6272235 >>6268665 I thought that when he said he hated the state he just meant the state as that faceless modern entity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 10:33:49 2015 No.6272682 >>6271860 >The worst insult I can think of for anybody is that they don't like the status quo/Christianity. That's some Spooky ideology right there.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 10:59:01 2015 No.6272759 >>6271332 It is because conformism is the way of the slaves. To follow the slave morality is to create false ideals, a false God (Revolution, Che) and live in awe of those things, instead of pursuing individualism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 14:41:10 2015 No.6273468 >>6267179 >To put it in Nietzschean terms, it is... Slavish! I don't have an adequate Fedora image for this. It's that bad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 14:51:14 2015 No.6273506 File: 922 KB, 400x225, 1424464564868.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6272682 >christianity >status quo >in 2015 jej'd heartily

Anonymous Sun Mar 15 15:48:06 2015 No.6273684

>>6268342
>Does democracy necessitate elections?

Yes.

>Would they consider the Soviet Union a right-wing regime?

The modern Marxist-Leninist conception (ie, the SWP take) is that the USSR was a 'state capitalist' model. Which, I mean, fine, if you define all exploitation/oppression as a 'form' of 'capitalism'.

>They try to paint Fascism/National Socialism as 'right wing'

Who would you accept as a competent authority on Fascism?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 15:50:41 2015 No.6273690 >>6266782 >dem thighs >that hair lovely

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 15:53:02 2015 No.6273701 >>6273684 hitler called hitler a socialist, id say I believe him. but then, I don't think any form of 'socialism' is automatically bad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 15:54:03 2015 No.6273706 >>6273701 What about Mussolini?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 15:57:10 2015 No.6273716 >>6266652 >left-wing >democracy choose one, idiot.

Anonymous Sun Mar 15 16:18:35 2015 No.6273792

>>6273706

personally I don't think he gets enough credit for the influence he had. in any case though, Italian fascism and german national socialism can be distincted.

the main difference I think, is that Italian fascism was more 'universalist'. in the sense that while national socialism is indeed also nationalist, Italian fascism envisaged all classes in all places 'enjoined' within the party (hence, the metaphor of the fasces). this was mostly inspired by the experiences of the first world war, where the fascists observed how through the war effort all peoples in a whole country were unified into one cohesive organism moving with singular purpose. hence the emphasis of militarism in italian fascism.

I don't actually approve of universalizing tendencies in large part mind. we are always and already existing in 'universal orders' that are tending towards certain ends. attempts by feeble ape creatures to countermand the course of teleologies they know not, defying the plans of gods if you will, tend to make things worse than not attempting at all. in this, an ideology that is *finite*, limited in scope, to a certain people, or a certain place, or a certain time, would be to its advantage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 16:51:01 2015 No.6273930 >>6273792 Well I dunno about all that, I ask about Mussolini simply because he definitely and explicitly considered Fascism to be right wing or 'of the Right' as he put it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 16:53:29 2015 No.6273941 >>6266782 the slant of the forehead doesn't look right, but it could be the angle also >those thighs

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 16:54:50 2015 No.6273946 File: 25 KB, 225x346, fascism viewed from the right.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6273930 yeah im not the same anon you were responding too though, I just felt like having a conversation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 15 17:00:24 2015 No.6273964 >>6273941 The definitive evidence that it's not Nitch is that Nitch didn't grow the monster 'tache until the tumour had addled his brains. That was well, well after any potential menage-a-trois with whosis and whatserface. >>6273946 Fair enough.

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