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/lit/ - Literature

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626075 No.626075 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /lit/, what Visual Novels do you like? (They're not that different from regular novels, really, so I don't see why they wouldn't belong here.)

Pic related, Giniro was pretty badass.

>> No.626086

>Is no gream as same as daed"

And that's all we have time for folks! I'd like to thank our guests and all our sponsors. Good night!

>> No.626087

I am pretty convinced there has never been one that didn't suck

>> No.626091

>>626086
Oh, it was just a small typo, shit happens. Who really cares.

>> No.626092

>They're not that different

Pictures
Interactive

>>>/jp/

>> No.626094

Wait, what's the difference between a visual novel and a graphic novel/comic or just manga in general?

>> No.626097

>>626094
It has music and sometimes voices

>> No.626115

GET OUT KS DEVS!

>> No.626118

>>626097
Get the fuck out.

>> No.626119

>>626097
"Oh no, music, voices, scary!" Come on, it's still not that different. You're mostly just reading it anyway.

>> No.626125

>>626091

Small typo? The whole sentence is incoherent.

>> No.626131

>>626118
No, dude, seriously. It's true. I know crazy right? Well it's a fact and you'll just have to live with it.

>> No.626145

Hotel Dusk: The Secret of Room 215 for the DS.

Best Visual novel on the DS, and a really fucking good story.

>> No.626164

Ok now before things get all heated up in here I just want to say the Maeda Jun is the most overrated faggot involved in the medium. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

>> No.626167

Umineko is a really fun mystery, its definitely anime-ish but the story is top-notch and interestingly done. Writing is pulp, but then again its a VN so as long as you aren't expecting much its pretty good.

Considering any VN 'literature' is a huge stretch, they are closer to graphic novels.

>> No.626184

>>626164
His shit is popular because he writes dramas that don't have sex scenes with h-game troupes.

>> No.626198

>>626184
His troupes seem very h-game to me. imo.

>> No.626206

H + T p : // @ t . K I M M o Á . 5 3 /

>> No.626210

Also: anything made by Nasu is pretentious shit

>> No.626233

The only one I played was Katawa Shoujo (Disability Girls)

>> No.626243

>>626198
I meant he had h-game troupes with no sex, syntax problem.
>>626210
I've read through all the routes of Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night. It's pulp fiction, fights are the center with lots of world building and explanations of why something happened with a bit of mystery. It is what it is, doesn't try to be anything special.

>> No.626246

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JXuJPL1nrQ
^^^^^
basically what every visual novel is

>> No.626276

I played some of the visual novels:
Red Shift
Narcissu
Tsukihime

>> No.626293
File: 22 KB, 309x293, asumuscience.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626293

>>626167
I absolutely loved Umineko, and I wish Witch-hunt would hurry up on Epsiode 6. It fixed what was wrong with Higurashi(too much circlejerking after the initial 'game', when no more introductions are needed) while stepping up the supernatural.

A great blend of anti-mystery and anti-magic, and has a few passages that make you think about how mysteries even in the west are structured.

>> No.626299

I can't take Visual Novels seriously because they usually have hentai on them and I just end up laughing or not taking the story seriously.

>> No.626315

I played some Pheonix Wright games. I'm pretty casual when it comes to visual novels.

>> No.626316

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8605780d4228a713d0d290dca69ceb5cc518b8aa2e7682b3c95965eaa7bc68bc

Here's Critical Point a Visual Hentai Novel made in 1998

>> No.626323

>>626276
You have good taste.
Man, I completely missed the point in Red Shift, and it took weeks before I realised that The main char. and the sick girl both died

>> No.626339

Most VNs aren't that great in the same way you probably wouldn't like a random book you picked out of Walmart's book section. You have to look for the really good ones. IMO, Cross Channel, Clannad, Symphonic Rain, and Hello World are all great.

>> No.626342

Is this an anime thread? The only anime I'm watching right now is The Tatami Galaxy. Everything else looks like shit

>> No.626343

goes in all fields. this thread is bad and you should feel bad.

>> No.626345

>>626293
I like it because it is crazy.

>> No.626347

>>626339
see
>>626164

>> No.626353
File: 904 KB, 766x833, lamdakastel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626353

>>626345
It does get pretty fucking crazy.

>> No.626360

Fuck yeah, Umineko.
I kind of miss discussing Nasu- and Ryukishi- related shit ever since I moved from /jp/ to /lit/.

>> No.626361

Is there a single one of these that doesn't have retarded generic character designs

>> No.626363

>>626360
I'm sure you only talk about dumb fantasy and science fiction books here anyway so you might as well go back there

>> No.626364

>>626361
Life has retarded generic character designs.

>> No.626369

>>626364
Actually life has people with a wide variety of looks, some quite beautiful, some quite ugly, some quite middling

>> No.626377

>>626369
And these are only arbitrary distinctions that have little meaning besides to us. To an objective observer, we all look pretty damn similar.

Maybe anime characters have their own distinctions that we aren't aware of, that they use among themselves.

>> No.626381

>>626347
Nothing else Maeda has ever written can even compare to Clannad.

>> No.626383
File: 11 KB, 176x194, beatrice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626383

>>626369
It's the fallacy of the anime art style. VNs tend to be more focused on the writing though, and the art is just there to set the mood/a small visual.

Umineko in particular has TERRIBLE TERRIBLE character art, the sprites are lazily done, but they work for what Ryukishi intended them for. The beautiful background music is what really sets the mood.

>> No.626389

Visual novels = cartoons. Take it to /a/ or /co/.

>> No.626392

>>626075
>They're not that different from regular novels, really,
Excuse me, I have to interject here. Japanese culture, particularly in terms of writing, is far behind the West. If I were to draw a direct comparison, I'd say Japan now is at about the same level as victorian England.

They're far behind, the quality is shit, and they have a lot of catching up to do.

Anyone who considers Japan superior or even equal to the West, is probably experiencing nostalgia for older, simpler times.

>> No.626393

>>626377
lmfao

>> No.626396

>>626381
shit cant compare with shit. agreed

>> No.626398

>>626392
Racist.

>> No.626406

>>626392
I like how you're implying that the classics of the 19th and 20th centuries are inferior to modern books like Harry Potter and Twilight.

>> No.626411

>>626398
Culturist, actually, if that's a word - or even if it isn't. Being Japanese does not make someone genetically incapable of doing good writing. But being raised in Japanese culture does ensure it. Even the best of their work only comes to "decent/good" by Western standards.

>> No.626417

>>626411
If you have not read them in the original Japanese well then I'm afraid we can't take you seriously

>> No.626420

>>626406
I like how those are the best examples of modern literature you could think of.

>> No.626421

>>626411
Yeah man, you're right. Fight Club is the best book of all time. Ron Paul /b/.

>> No.626422

>>626406
>pick the very best of one era
>compare it to shitty books from another
No. Look at the average book from each place/time.

>> No.626423

>>626411
They don't have the same standards and limitations the west does. Completely egoculturist view, beyond that theres quite a few great japanese novels that have extremely different viewpoints than western ones.

>> No.626425

>>626422
The average book of any time from any place is trash

>> No.626432

Fate/Stay Night is the most literary out of all of them.

I would read it if it was a conventional novel, and I read it now as a visual one.

Damn traditionalists.

>> No.626434

>>626425
The average book, these days, is a lot better than the average book back then, or the average book made in Japan, much as you'd like to pretend otherwise.

>> No.626452

>>626434
I'm not pretending one way or the other, but I doubt you've actually read enough books to say that with any merit

>> No.626482

>>626452
>VNs aren't real literature, therefore books are superior
>Japanese can't write, therefore VNs aren't as good as western literature
>You disagree with me, therefore you don't know what you're talking about.

You realize you sound like a fuckin idiot?

>> No.626493

>>626482
You aren't making any sense

>> No.626512

>>626493
he does actually

>> No.626520

>>626512
No he doesn't. He completely deviated from the point and is making unsupported claims

>> No.626531

>>626493
Sorry, anon, I'm getting who's who mixed up a little bit here. Turns out you're both saying retarded shit. VNs have as much potential as any other fuckin medium, be it books, movies, video games, anime, manga, what have you. Enough of the elitism.

>> No.626541

>>626531
In theory, not in practice

>> No.626543

>>626531
sure, but this is /lit/
if they're animated books with manga style drawing and voices and music, they should probably go in a or jp or something.

>> No.626547

>>626541
Seeing their potential in practice would require them all to have the thousands of years to mature that literature has had.

>> No.626549

>>626543
No. As soon as they are translated into English, they cease to be /jp/ related, and /a/ is for anime and manga only.

>> No.626554

>>626547
>Implying literature has actually gotten better these past thousands of years, and not just shittier.

>> No.626555

>>626549
>As soon as they are translated into English, they cease to be /jp/ related
this is entirely untrue and you know it. you're just bullshitting

>> No.626557

>>626547
that's not necessarily true

>> No.626572

>>626547
I guess you think ancient poetry didn't use the same sort of sophisticated techniques we see in modernist poetry

>> No.626578

>>626547
No. They are very much influenced by traditional literature too, so it's not like they're starting from nothing.

>> No.626614

>>626549
sorry, what's the difference between these VNs and anime/manga?

>> No.626628

>>626614
They're like a really bizarre thing that's halfway between being cartoon and comic.

>> No.626634
File: 49 KB, 500x500, saya_no_uta_song_of_saya_ost.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626634

>> No.626635

>>626628
So they're half anime and half manga.
How doesn't this fit?

>> No.626643

>>626635
I honestly have no clue. I have no idea what OP was thinking

>> No.626645

>>626635
also, how does being part cartoon and part comic qualify it more for lit than the Nip boards? Or /co/ or something?

>> No.626646

Kindly go to /co/ or /a/ or wherever the fuck you need to take your garbage.

>> No.626655

>>626634
I think monsters can be beautiful on the inside. Of course, I think everyone agrees with that.
Actual spoilers:
But when you start killing and eating my friends, even if they're repulsive to me, it's time to bust a cap in that ass.

>> No.626661

>>626392

haha yeah because a japanese didn't do anything like write the first novel in the world or whatever

oh

>> No.626665

>>626635
WORDS all over the place. One could say there is normally a novel's worth.

>> No.626667

>>626661
first does not imply best, and it does not mean they have advanced as quickly.

>> No.626675

>>626661
It was not written by a Japanese person, and it most certainly was not written by a woman

>> No.626676

>>626634
Superior to Lovecraft.

>> No.626678

>>626665
Sure, but anyone posting other comics, even the ones considered "literary," like Watchmen or Sandman and stuff like that, usually get raged out of /lit/. Just because it's Asian doesn't exempt it from basic classification.

>> No.626679

>>626665
Kind of like a...................... comic book?!?!!?!?!?

>> No.626686

>>626676
That's no mean feat.

>> No.626691

I just found this thread. I dont see why people dont want to accept vns as literature.

>> No.626699

>>626675
Lol

Inb4 all the /lit/ regulars have no idea what you're talking about.

>> No.626708

>>626691
Just because something is on the same level artistically as literature does not make it literature.
For instance, there are many graphic novels that are very artistic and metaphorical and powerful and what not, but they're not literature. They're art, but they're an entire different medium with a separate board dedicated to them.
Visual Novels appear to be the same way, and they can apparently fit into like 5 boards, but /lit/ is not one of them.

>> No.626711

I liked Umineko, but the writing was admittedly pretty bad. Doesn't make it any less entertaining.

Saya no Uta could work well as a novel.

In terms of Japanese literature, I'd honestly choose light novels over anything else. There are some really great authors, like Nisioisin and Ryohgo Narita - who is basically a wizard in terms of making likable characters.

>> No.626713

>>626699
Mind telling me what I am talking about? (I honestly have no idea)

>> No.626714

I'd say some VNs are good.

Like Umineko. Shouldn't be considered a masterpiece of literature or anything, but it's rather enjoyable, and I think it counts as literature. Decent characters, decent foreshadowing, and a pretentious but fitting meta overtone.

Erotic Visual Novels are terrible, though. Really, one unfortunate thing about Japanese Works is that they are HEAVILY predictable.

>> No.626715

>>626691
Read the thread and don't bump it with your cartoon loving bullshit. Pictures != literature.

>> No.626722

I don't know what a visual novel is and I don't care.
Since it's Japanese I'm going to assume it has a ridiculous plot with shit characterization and a lot of pictures of stupid looking characters.

>> No.626726

>>626711
Light Novels are good. I read the Slayers light novels, actually, and I have to say, it's like Discworld meets Neil Gaiman(Not in the Good Omen sense!).

Hilarious parody one moment, and then really well done dramatic scenes the next.

>> No.626736
File: 16 KB, 244x237, umadkyrie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626736

>>626722
Nah, the art's legit.

>> No.626739

We've had plenty of threads on /lit/ about how light novels aren't real literature in the same way that fantasy novels aren't real literature so shut up about them

>> No.626741

>>626711
I really enjoyed Umineko, even if the translations were a bit stiff at some points and Ryukishi is still pounding in the same messages. It's fun to come up with theories, too.

I can also second the Narita thing. Every damn character in Baccano! is amazing, and it's got a kick ass setting to boot. Japanese stuff is great and all, but sometimes it's nice to read something and think FUCK YEAH AMERICA.

>> No.626742

>>626739
that's not really a good comparison at all.

>> No.626743
File: 30 KB, 305x251, I DUNNO LOL.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626743

>>626736
FUCKING MOON-CHAN

>> No.626745

>>626713
The worlds first novel was written by a japanese woman who taught herself how to read in her spare time.

>> No.626749

>>626745
The Tale of Genji? More like the Tale of Boring or something

>> No.626750

>>626742
They're both escapism and nothing more substantial

>> No.626751

>>626736
Anime/manga art is universally shit as far as I'm concerned. Needlessly cute and most character have the same shaped head.

>> No.626754

Literature: creative writing of recognized artistic value.

Jesus christ you people are stupid. VNs and light novels both fit in that category.

>> No.626756

>>626751
>most character have the same shaped head.
is that really your largest problem with the medium?

>> No.626757

>>626743
So, I went on Giantbomb.com, and they have profiles of every vidya character ever, even Battler. I clicked on Battler's enemies, and guess who was there?

FUCKING MOON-CHAN

>> No.626759

>>626745
No it wasn't. The first novels were already being written (in the Western world) in like 3rd century AD. Tale of Genji comes from like 12th century

>> No.626764

>>626759
Do you even know what a novel is? Give an example of one of these "novels".

>> No.626765

>>626759
Out of curiosity, what novels were those?
I know there were plays and dramas and poems and such, but those don't really count as novels.

>> No.626774
File: 44 KB, 850x632, fucking moon-chan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626774

>>626757
That confirms Metal Gear Seakats end, at least.

FUCKING MOON-CHAN, ONLY GOOD FOR TOPLESS FISTFIGHTS

>> No.626776

>>626764
>>626765
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Ass

>> No.626780

>>626757
>>626774
Isaac and Miria would be proud of your logical deductive skills
You nutty bastards.

>> No.626791

>>626780
It's about having fun, broski. I have fun thinking that the end of Umineko will be an over the top fistfight stolen from Metal Gear Solid.

The fact that it may well happen is an added bonus.

>> No.626796
File: 12 KB, 400x400, 22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626796

>>626780
DID SOMEONE SAY ISAAC AND MIRIA

I THINK SOMEONE SAID ISAAC AND MIRIA

>> No.626811

>>626796
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

>> No.626813

>>626411

What "standards" are you talking about? By what exact critera are you judging one book to be better than another?

>> No.626825

>>626776
>precursors to the novel, along with beowulf and a bunch of other works of literature
Any questions?

>> No.626826

>>626813
"I liked this book better than that one, therefore it is better."

Or, more often

"I liked this book, and haven't read that one, so I will assume it is not as good."

>> No.626834

>>626825
It's not a poem.

>> No.626846
File: 14 KB, 400x400, 606.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
626846

>>626811
Hey, Isaac!

What, Miria!

They're talking about us on one of those image board things again!

Again? Whatever are they saying, Miria, my dear?

They're implying that the series of novels we're in can't be considered literature!

...we're in a series of novels?

...

...LET'S GO TO NIPPON

SUGOIIIIII ISAAC, YOU'RE SO SMART

>> No.626850

>>626825
My question: what's your point?

>> No.626851

I like Joe Sacco's works

>> No.626876

>>626834
It's considered a prose narrative, not a novel.

>>626826
Basically what literary discussions boil down too. People trying to get their favourite books recognized by others as "classics" or trying to prove their intellectual superiority because they're "cultured".

>> No.626899

Only VNs worth a damn are Saya no Uta and Cross+Channel.

>> No.626905

>>626899
How about Ever17? FUCK YEAH, BLICK WINKEL, THIRD EYE BULLSHIT!

>> No.626906

>>626876
>It's considered a prose narrative, not a novel.
Now explain how The Tale of Genji can be considered a novel while The Golden Ass cannot.

>> No.626935

>>626876
Then the first novel is Don Quixote

>> No.626967

>>626905
>>626899
Actually, none of those are worth a damn because all visual novels are trash

>> No.626971

>>626967
Fuck off, troll.

>> No.626975

>>626971
No. You're trolling me.

>> No.626988

Never heard of them, please recommend me one! :D

>> No.626998

>>626988
What kind of escapist literature do you like?

>> No.627003 [DELETED] 

>>626988
try Utawarerumono, it's universally liked and has an English and voice patch
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4TQSYOBE
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LSEM4RKW
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RMWHRD86
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q0RSS147
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0OB2C52H
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BONUYDC6
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MGJREGC0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=96YC61LQ
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YZUYRWT0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FE9TNWAE
http://erogedownload.com/downloads/addons/56-utawarerumono-voice-patch.html

>> No.627007

>>627003
But only if you're a furry

>> No.627012

>>626988
Umineko for a longer VN read or Saya no Uta for a short one.

For light novels, Baccano! is good, but if you can tolerate some LOL NIPPON HIGH SCHOOL shit, Bakemonogatari, DRRR!! and the Haruhi Suzumiya series are all good. Slayers is also pretty decent.

>> No.627013 [DELETED] 

>>626998
Ones that are fun

>>627003
thanks!

>> No.627015

>>626073
H t T P : / / À t . k ì M m Ò A.s € /

>> No.627020
File: 273 KB, 250x187, 11581549552687.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
627020

>>626988
try Utawarerumono, it's universally liked and has an English and voice patch
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4TQSYOBE
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LSEM4RKW
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RMWHRD86
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q0RSS147
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0OB2C52H
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BONUYDC6
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MGJREGC0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=96YC61LQ
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YZUYRWT0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FE9TNWAE
http://erogedownload.com/downloads/addons/56-utawarerumono-voice-patch.html

>> No.627022

>>627020
Again, only if you're a furry

>> No.627025

>>627012
I hate all of those

>> No.627026

>>627022
Fuck you, bro. Mimikko =/= furry.

>> No.627046

>>626071
H + + p : / / à T . KÍ M M ò A .s € /

>> No.627052

>>626988
Read some pretentious Nasu.

>> No.627057

>>627052
Kara no Kyoukai is the most pretentious apparently

>> No.627061

>>626988
Read Ever17, it's really good, popular, and easy to get in English.

>> No.627076

>>627052
>>627061
I've not read any but I'll get the three recommended, thanks.

>> No.627081

Visual novelists can't write for shit. This is a fact.

>> No.627083

>>627081
It's true. People who are actually talented simply aren't drawn to the medium.

>> No.627087

>>627081
>>627083
I disagree.

>> No.627096

>>627087
That's because you are perfectly OK with reading and looking at complete crap.

>> No.627100

>>627087

If a visual novelist was truly good, he wouldn't need the extra visual/music element to back up his work. His writing would stand on its own. Do I need to mention how motherfucking full of cliches they are? I've read my fair share of them to draw from.

>> No.627109

>>627100
It's a different type of medium... In fact it's harder to write while doing the music and visuals correctly.

>> No.627117

eroge > modern Western literature

>> No.627123

>>627117
Pornography is superior to eveerything

>> No.627134

>>627130
Porn normally has a plot.

>> No.627135

i've never heard of visual novels... sounds interesting

>> No.627130

>>627123
This isn't just any pornography. This is porn with a plot!

>> No.627139

>>627117
Oh, you can go stuff it. You going to tell me that any book that contains explicit descriptions of sex, is also nothing but fap fodder, and has no other merits?

>> No.627140

>>627130
Just liek the porn with the mailman stopping by the lonely housewife's place for a little sex on the job

>> No.627156

>>627109

No... it really isn't. You take all the extra shit like images, music and voice acting and what's left? WORDS. That's it. And no matter what medium the art belongs to, there's no excuse for riding on cliches so damn much. So far, no visual novel has risen above genre pulp.

>> No.627168

>>627156

It's funny because he thinks books are any different

>> No.627165

>>627156
You are wrong. Your ignorance astounds me.

>> No.627175

>>626072
H + t P :/ / A t. K ì m M ò à. S E/

>> No.627185

Wow, you people mentioning Umineko as an example of a good visual novel really need to read more of them.

>> No.627186

Broad, sweeping generalizations.
Saya no Uta is of course full of cliches, and when someone wants to read escapist literature, this is what they pick up.

>> No.627191

>>627168
You are ignorant if you think otherwise.

>> No.627194

Meh, find me a single piece of literature without any cliches anywhere in it.

>> No.627199

>>627194

The Odyssey

>> No.627203

>>627199
That's actually a terrible example even though it's certainly a work of art (which a visual novel has never been)

>> No.627204

>>627199

Gilgamesh ripoff.

>> No.627207

God damn it, /lit/.

>> No.627211

>>627165

Yeah, don't bother constructing an actual argument, just tell me I'm ignorant of your misunderstood masterpieces, that'll show me.

>>627194

I don't mind the occasional cliches, but visual novels use them to an fucking absurd degree.

>> No.627213

>>627204

>implying it has much in common with gilgamesh
>implying that even if it did it would be cliched
>implying you even know what a cliche is

>> No.627216

>>627203
You are wrong. I could name lots of visual novels that are works of art. Don't assume that every single one is some crappy nukige.

>> No.627220

There has never been a visual novel that had the same kind of artistic integrity as a Masaaki Yuasa anime

>> No.627218

>>626756
No, it's the shitty stories.

>> No.627219

>>627199
Guy goes on a trip, defeats monsters, fucks women, goes home, fucks wife.
If that isn't escapist literature, I don't know what is.

>> No.627224

>ITT:Butthurt Japanophiles argue with elitist westerners about what is or is not "literature".

For the record, just because it has words, that doesn't make it literature.

>> No.627225

>>627219

>he thinks fucking your wife is a cliche!

laughingmarriedcouple.png

>> No.627222

>>627216

Don't bother trying to talk about art with people who think Atlas Shrugged is the best shit ever

>> No.627234

>>627224
MY OPINION > YOUR OPINION

Go die in a fire. If it is written or drawn, and if you enjoy its message, it is literature.

>> No.627235

>>627222
Atlas shrugged, despite how drawn out and poorly written a lot of it is, has an actual point to make.
I have yet to see any sort of anime, manga, or VN come even close to having a significant point.
If there is any it sure as fuck doesn't get imported to the US or translated into English because I sure as fuck don't see any.

>> No.627245

>>627234

So the phone book is a work of literature?

>> No.627246

>>627235
You obviously aren't reading or watching the right stuff. 99% of any medium will be shit. Just because you have yet to see the 1% that justifies its existence doesn't make it crap.

>> No.627249

>>627245
Yes.
Very, very boring literature.
But if I was to specify, I would say any written or drawn book that has a message to make is literature.

>> No.627253

>>627234
No. Would Calvin and Hobbes be considered literature? No. I love Calvin and Hobbes, it often does have a good point. But literature it is not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literature

The word refers to written works that have artistic merit apart from being simply fun to read or look at.

>> No.627254

>>627246

Monster is about as close you're going to get to actually convincing me.

>> No.627258

>>627235
Isao Takahata is a legit. excellent film-maker. You should check him out sometime. His best films are Grave of the Fireflies and Only Yesterday

>> No.627266

>>627263
>My opinion > your opinion.

>> No.627263

>>627254
Monster is pulpy crap akin to Stephen King

>> No.627273

>>627249

A cook book has a message. You gain something from reading it. Is that literature? I think you need a more refined working definition of this.

>>627263

And yet it's the best thing anime/mangavisual novels has produced. Fancy that...

>> No.627270

>>627246
Give me an example. Really, a good example. Not this evangelion "Ohh..look how DEEP those robots are!" shit.
If it has giant robots in it, it is instantly shit to me because that crap is just stupid.

>> No.627272

>>627266
I guess you really like Stephen King who is mediocre at best

>> No.627280

>>627273
>And yet it's the best thing anime/mangavisual novels has produced. Fancy that...
No, actually, there's much better, and some of it has mentioned in this thread no less

>> No.627275

>>627253
Well, it's obvious: you're retarded.

>> No.627286

>>627273
I disagree that it is the best.
>>627270
Lord no. Even in /a/ nobody would try to pass off Evangelion as anything beyond mediocre, besides the obvious trolls.

>> No.627281

>>627270
TeXhnolyze

>> No.627282

>>627273
It's a completley different art form.
Art yes, literature it is not, though.

>> No.627293

>>627270
School Days. It certainly has a message.

>> No.627297

>>627293
And it does a very shitty job expressing it

>> No.627303

>>627281

God no, this was pretentious as fuck. At least say Haibane Renmei if you're going to pull from that well.

>>627282

This sentence you are reading right here, it's fucking ART and deserves to be placed alongside the Mona Lisa and The Last Supper.

>> No.627299

>>627297
Can you think of a better way to do so?

>> No.627300

No seriously though...
TeXhnolyze. It isn't cliched and has a great message that is written in well.

>> No.627304

I'd be appalled if someone could play Saya no Uta or Kana and not get anything out of it. The guy claiming to be an anime/vn expert who hates anime/vns probably only saw Naruto and played some generic nukige like The Sagara Family.

>> No.627305

>>627300
These pretentious litfags have probably never even heard of it.

>> No.627309

Katawa Shojou has a great message.

Euthanasia is always best.

>> No.627319

>>627270
Ladies vs Butlers

>> No.627316

>>627303
I love Haibane Renmei. Another favorite is Mushishi

>> No.627324

>>627303
>pretentious
Come on now... That's what you're going to call it.

>> No.627328

>>627325
>...whilst also reading obscure novels

>> No.627325

>>627305
>/lit/ is pretentious because they don't watch obscure Japanese cartoons

>> No.627330

I found that, after reading a book, I need to take a break and read something light and simple. It helps me digest the content of the book if I read Harry Potter after reading Dr. Faustus.
While doing this routine, a friend of mine recommended I substitute books like Harry Potter with visual novels. He burned True Remembrance, a freeware visual novel, for me.
True Remembrance was surprisingly nice. It allowed me to relax more than a Harry Potter book ever could. Even though it was relaxing, it had a greater theme to convey than most other books. It was no classic, it was no deeply analytical work. Many other books have elicited a much greater response in me. But it succeeded in entertaining me, it had a message for me, and it managed to relax me.
I have never read another visual novel after True Remembrance, but I respect the medium.

>> No.627333

>>627324

Does needlessly drawn out and over exposed work better for you? And can you honestly tell me in one simple sentence what it's message was?

>> No.627335

>>627330
You are also a huge weenie

>> No.627338

>>627333
TeXhnolyze was about society's attempts at forcing evolution through technology and how it will be our downfall if we don't change our behavior first.

>> No.627345

>>627338

Ahh, a cautionary tale about something that isn't happening - like much of anime.

>> No.627347

>>627338
That sounds like a boring and mostly nonsensical science fiction novel (from the way you describe it)

>> No.627350

>>627345
>Implying most literature isn't the same way.
Dohoho.

>> No.627351

>>627338
I want to echo what >>627330
is saying in that while VNs may not always be written as well as 'real novels', they are entertaining and usually have good messages.

>> No.627354

>>627351
Except: why bother with them when there are so many "good novels" to read..?

>> No.627357

Everybody trying to defend visual novels are trolls. The entire medium is shit, no exceptions.

>> No.627363

>>627357
They aren't trolls man, they actually like the stuff and think it has some kind of artistic value (for some reason)

>> No.627364

>>627345
>Something that isn't happening.
Are you kidding? Surely you see it happening all around you.

>> No.627376

>>627220
It seems no one was interested in responding to this

>> No.627392

>>627364

Nobody's forcing evolution on anyone. You can blame Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt for that one.

>> No.627385

>>627357
>>627363
Must be fun criticizing things you've never tried. I'll try that in the future.
Anyway I'll be leaving.
Good day.

>> No.627396

>>627338

This theme has been done about 1000 times before in sci-fi (Hello, Asimov), but I guess I'll give you that. Now try to explain why it needed to be 24 (or however many it was) agonizingly slow episodes that meandered around the same overexposed shot and not be fully contained in a brisk 13 episodes series.

>> No.627409

>>627385
We won't miss you

>> No.627417

>>627396
To get the kids with ADHD to not fill the internet with blog posts on how deep it was.

It was slow but that doesn't make it bad and I don't recall it using the same shots over.

>> No.627425

Serial Experiments Lain features an allusion to Proust. No bullshit.

>> No.627440

The most recent episode of Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei (The Tatami Galaxy) mentions famous film-makers Godard, Truffaut and "that Titanic guy"

>> No.627449

>>627445
That's a good thing

>> No.627445

You niggers aren't even talking about visual novels anymore.

>> No.627479

>>627425
>>627440

allusions = DEPTH

I could fill a book with all the allusions to the western canon as sanity would allow, but it would still need to stand on its own.

>> No.627498

>>627479
What's important is that the creators have some knowledge of stuff that doesn't suck. Maybe because of that they'll try to be non-sucky themselves

>> No.627521

>Obvious troll OP
>230 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
Derp.

>> No.627530

>>627521
all of 4chan loves the animes