/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6255089]

ITT: We discuss Lord of the Flies

[Anonymous No.6255248]

>>6255089
Overrated. Read The Inheritors instead

[Anonymous No.6255300]

>>6255089
Way to start the discussion, OP.

[Anonymous No.6255362]

Fucking gay ass stupid fag shit. Only a cock sucking faggot bitch retard would read such bullshit low brow trash. Let me guess faggot your stupid little bitch ass is reading this horse shit for school? Your teacher is a cunt and I'm fucking your mother tonight, retard. Fuck you. Fuck your asshole. You are a gay nigger and a juicy fuccboi.

[Anonymous No.6255375]

Leave it to the redcoats to write a children's book where a pig gets ass raped with a spear.

[Anonymous No.6255377]

>>6255362
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.6255408]

>>6255248
>not Pincher Martin

Fuck off, cunt

[Anonymous No.6255929]

>>6255089
Haven't read this since grade 8 but I remember really enjoying it. I actually just bought this again a few days ago and plan on reading it soon to see how my perspective has changed and to critically analyze it

[Anonymous No.6256151]

It doesn't matter what we think, because we're going to get killed and have our glasses stolen

[Anonymous No.6256375]

>>6255929
You'll get 10 times more out of it now.

Here, let me give you a few angles to keep in mind whilst reading it again

>Hobbes savage man vs Rousseau's noble savage
>Boarding Schools=violent and sexual hierarchy indoctrination schemes
>Democracy vs autocracy (democracy gets things done slowly and responsibly, but autocracy caters to basic needs much better, i.e. food/meat
>Governance by the Sword vs governance by the heart and mind
> "The Other"
> Everything and everyone is a symbol for something, no matter how seemingly insignificant you may think it is, Lord of the Flies is an extremely polished work--there is literally no filler
>Sadism vs Masochism vs Sadomasochism
>"figurative" or metaphorical anal sex
>Freud's sex drive vs drive based in aggression

That should be enough to keep you reeling in awe.

[Anonymous No.6256585]

>>6255089

More like Flies of the Shit

[Anonymous No.6256603]

/lit/ more like /shit/ rekt

[Anonymous No.6258796]

>>6256375
Bump because I worked hard on my post.

[Anonymous No.6258812]

>>6258796
I just love the structure of the book. Each chapter is a scene - a clear place and has a set of things going, also great themes.

[Anonymous No.6258852]

>>6258812
Even the setting descriptions have no fat or filler, and often times elicit a spine tingle for its beauty.

[Anonymous No.6258900]

>>6256375
I remember reading it in 9th grade and analyzing the characters in terms of id, ego, and superego.

Haven't read it since... hmmm

[Anonymous No.6258934]

>>6258900
>id, ego, and superego.

Hmmm, I suppose you could do that, but it's tricky.

Freud explains that every person is a combination of ID and superego (or as the greeks say, the passions and the rational).

Anyway, however your mind balances your ID and Superego, is the resulting Ego.

Think of a scale, with ID on one side and superego on the otherside. However that scale is tipped, is how the ego manifests itself, whether it be equal parts ed and superego, or Id heavy, etc.

I suppose you could say that certain characters are more prone to their Id desires, where as others are more superego inclined.

If you ask me personally though, it's not that interesting of an approach to dissect the work, but it can certainly be done.

I think my favourite character is Simon though. He is a sort of christ-like figure, but I think he is more original than being a cheap christ-figure. He represents a very special type of man--the supposed "noble savage", that is, a man that is naturally gentle and civilized--an introspective, self-reflecting, solitary, and sociable man. The kind of man that usually gets preyed upon. The poet. The priest. A jungian archetype I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.6260072]

bump, I'm working like a maniac here.

[Anonymous No.6260191]

>>6260072
bump because i like you. Haven't read the book but i very much enjoyed the 1963 Film

[Anonymous No.6262066]

>>6260191
There is a terrific audiobook on youtube of the story, read by a terrific performer who does awesome voices for each character:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYLs9eOuj4

[Anonymous No.6262556]

>>6262066
Poruin my heart out here /lit/....trying to get us talking about a really good book...made it easy for you, 7hr professionally read audiobook...right here...you can read it...read thread...then talk about the book....you know?...like /lit/ should be doing with books....talking about them....

[Anonymous No.6263951]

>>6262556

[Anonymous No.6264997]

I-i worked so hard in this thread, but it was all for nothing.

Dust in the wind.

[Anonymous No.6265061]

I really liked it. I remember when it was taught that my teacher would mention how it used transitions to obtain a better flow to it, and looking on it now it really does flow incredibly nicely. It's got an exciting story for the general people with much to analyze below the surface.

>>6256375
Never even knew about applying all these ideas, or even what some of them are, but thanks for this. I'll save this for when I reread it.

[Anonymous No.6265083]

A friend of mine who wasn't really into reading told me he liked Lord of the Flies. I thought: that's interesting perhaps we could have an insightful conversation for once. Turned out he liked the films because they had lots of underdressed boys running about. Sort of insightful I didn't need.

[Anonymous No.6266052]

>>6256375
Damn, I gotta reread it now

[Anonymous No.6266161]

>>6255089
I'm writing a sequel to Lord of the Flies...called Washington DC

[Anonymous No.6266185]

I was talking about this book today. Serious question.

I haven't read it since grade 11 but I really need someone to explain the scenes involving Simon and the pig head. It's actually haunting me that I don't understand what Golding's trying to say here. I get that Simon's a christ-like figure and the pig head is literally the lord of the flies, but I don't understand their interaction

[Anonymous No.6266204]

>>6266185
Christ represent morals and heaven, our divine nature.... and the Lord of the Flies, which is the title of one of Satan's lieutenants, named Beelzebub, represents hell and evil, and our inner nature.

[Anonymous No.6266216]

>>6266204
but the underlying message is a battle between good and evil, tribalism and fellowship being the good and feudalism and conflict over material and power being evil.

[Anonymous No.6266220]

>>6266185
>>6266204
At one point during a counch meeting, Simon tries to ask a philosophically perplexing question to the rest of the boys, he asks

"What is the worst thing you can possible think that man is capable of?"

At which point one of the boys makes a farting sound and they all laugh at him. What Simon was trying to make them realize, was that there was an evil and wicked side to humans--he instead gets ridiculed (as most contemplative thinkers of human nature are).

Simon is not only a christ-figure, but a philosopher figure as well.

The jungian archetypes puzzle hunt is fun in LotF.

[Anonymous No.6266236]

>>6266220
the worst thing humans are capable of doing to each other is implied I the Christ and lord of the flies images, feudalism is the greatest evil, and so the formation of the feudal master class and the feudal slave class is the worst thing we do; slavery. we are moral tribal beings, the immoral feudal society separated the rulers and the ruled is the only true evil, because it leads to all other evils. the transfer of wealth from the peasant or labor class to the elite or royal class cause all stress , suffering , rebellion an strikes and so forth.

[Anonymous No.6266241]

>>6266220
it was the tree of (feudal) knowledge that frew in the middle of the (tribal) garden. SO the so-called FALL of MAN, is actually the FALL from tribalism to feudalism for all humanity.

[Anonymous No.6266247]

>>6266241
sorry I meant grew in the middle

[Anonymous No.6266251]

>>6266220
Or the FALL from tribal grace, so to speak

[Anonymous No.6266258]

>>6266236
I think you're jumping the gun a little.

There are points int he story where your theory doesn't hold up.

For example, the "feudal class masters" in LotF are actually the providers of food (as peasants are in the feudal system). Furthermore, apart from the choir, there are few older boys (just Ralph, Piggy, and the twins).

The rest are "young'ins"--and they are essentially useless for anything.

I think more interestingly,it's not about feudalism, but about tribalism--and the various forms of tribal political doctrines.

For example, the first tribal union was through demoracy, voting Ralph "Chief". But after that point, he was the benevolent dictator of the group, yet there was also free assembly where everyone could speak, but I think Ralph (or the one carrying the conch) had the only authority to call meetings.

This goes beyond marxist criticism, this touches anthropological pre-historic politics--much more fascinating when viewed like that.

And another thing I found interesting that you said, about strikes, Jack's choir (the hunters) "striked" so to say by leaving Ralph's tribe and hunting only for themselves, and those who wish to be under jacks rule--that kind of turns things problematic for your model doesn't it? Or perhaps, makes it more interesting.

I think Goldman wanted the political angle to be extremely complex for LotF.

[Anonymous No.6266379]

>>6266258

Perhaps, I see you point..
In LotF though there is not a fully formed feudal master and feudal servant class, they operate more or less as a tribe, though you see the beginnings of the separation into rulers and the ruled which is part of the message in the book, that the potential for evil is within us all.

In every fully formed feudal system, though, the ruling class provides little or if any of the created material wealth, the labor, peasant class works and has the fruits of their labor claimed by the elite ruling class through the device of ownership.

all I was saying though is the metaphysical struggle that is viewed in religion and which permeates literature is the product of two opposing societal structures, "tribal good" and "feudal evil". since the main feature of feudal society is that it is separated into the ruling class and the class ruled, and since the main result of that division is the transfer of wealth from the laboring class that produces the material wealth or things of intrinsic value, then it is likely the so-called "forbidden fruit: not an apple, or anything true fruit at all, but the fruit of others people's labor; meaning surplus resources. it may be that tribal prosperity for all is turned into the feudal wealth of a few after the FALL from tribal grace.

[Anonymous No.6266404]

>>6266258
If you accept that the story of the FALL is a cultural memory to the paradigm shift from tribalism to feudalism, and the forbidden fruit is the fruit of other people's labor, then everything else falls into place.

The birth of the Nummo Twins that brought suffering and death and misery and trouble and war into the world would be the birth of the fracture feudal society consisting of the rulers and the ruled

Atlas the support the heaven and the earth is the labor class the supports themselves and the wealthy elite.

And so forth...

[Anonymous No.6266411]

>>6266404
And lets face, few things that happened so long ago would be worthy of passing down through the ages than going from tribal liberty and stewardship of the land, to feudal control and ownership of the and by those that claim to be entitled to it. IN fact that could be the ancient source for the "eviction" from the garden" when the elite ruling class claimed all the world for themselves.

it was the tree of (feudal) knowledge that grew in the middle of the (tribal) garden. the serpent, the evil that entered the garden is feudalism

[Anonymous No.6266412]

>>6266379
>>6266404
Not to be a prick or anything, but you guys really need to shut up or start using textual examples to support the stupid ass ramblings you're spouting.

[Anonymous No.6266416]

>>6266258

And lets face, few things that happened so long ago would be worthy of passing down through the ages than going from tribal liberty and stewardship of the land, to feudal control and ownership of the and by those that claim to be entitled to it. IN fact that could be the ancient source for the "eviction" from the garden" when the elite ruling class claimed all the world for themselves.

it was the tree of (feudal) knowledge that grew in the middle of the (tribal) garden. the serpent, the evil that entered the garden is feudalism

[Anonymous No.6266423]

>>6266412
ok, in Genesis the "waters above" were separated from the "waters below" by the firmament. If the fall refers to the fall from tribalism to feudalism, then the waters above would be the royal bloodlines, and the waters below would be the common bloodlines, each would be separated by firm law or divine law.

[Anonymous No.6266435]

>>6266423
and "gathering the land up into one place" or whatever refers to organizing land into own parcels of land, or gathering all the nomadic people into sedentary populations, because the working class is the foundation of society, or the earth.

[Anonymous No.6266437]

>>6266423
Did I just break your brain?

[Anonymous No.6266449]

>>6266437
*smile* no, I'm fine. What do you think? it seems reasonable that the fall refers to the fall from tribalism to feudalism. what else could have left such an I pact on tribal people to be leave such an impression that the tale of it survives all this time. nothing else represents such a paradigm shift.

[Anonymous No.6266454]

>>6266449
sorry, I mean such an "impact"

[Anonymous No.6266826]

not to be en edgmaster but reading this in HS i really, really hated piggy and felt he got what was coming

[Anonymous No.6267408]

>>6266826
He reminded me of that smartass kid from the block who thinks he's better than a "regular" boy because he can name ten dinosaurs and because his daddy bough him a toy microscope.

[Anonymous No.6268896]

>>6266826
>>6267408
Piggy incites a lot of animosity and disregard toward himself, but that isn't to say he isn't important, intelligent, and not full of good ideas--it's just that he is tediously annoying and useless for labour or anything that requires to getting to the point.

He also has poor leadership skills.

That makes Ralph and Simon more interesting because they protected piggy the most out of anybody, because they recognized his usefulness as well as good spirit. It was the other boys, and their peer pressure that made them dislike piggy.

It's interesting how humans become more evil the more in number they are, ala "mob rule".