Why haven't the workers of the world united?

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Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:06:36 2015 No.6242119 [Reply] [Original]

Why haven't the workers of the world united?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:07:36 2015 No.6242122 capitalism

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:08:01 2015 No.6242124 File: 165 KB, 640x480, 1421799225544.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242119 Because we stomped them into the ground.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:08:18 2015 No.6242125 The same reason they almost united: susceptibility

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:09:34 2015 No.6242130 >>6242124 I actually believe there is an elite capitalist coalition with the sole purpose of preventing leftist movements from taking root

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:10:48 2015 No.6242140 >>6242119 Because of the readiness with which a segment of the bourgeoisie substitutes itself for the class by programme jacking partial positive programmes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:11:12 2015 No.6242141 >>6242119 Revisionists

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:11:20 2015 No.6242142 >>6242130 duh

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:11:21 2015 No.6242143 Short answer: there weren't/aren't enough direct incentives and too many direct costs. Long answer: The logic of collective action by Mancur Olson

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:11:34 2015 No.6242145 Because the left is too busy talking about the inclusion of black transsexuals in movies and smoking weed to help create this union.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:12:25 2015 No.6242148 aspiration

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:12:36 2015 No.6242150 >>6242130 Well, yes. But we haven't really given them any work to do in the past 50 years, have we?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:14:03 2015 No.6242155 Because the dialectical step of capitalism isn't finished and it won't be in probably a hundred years or more. People like mao, Lenin, etc etc only cause bloodshed because you can't rush these things

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:14:19 2015 No.6242156 >>6242150 More like 70 mate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:14:26 2015 No.6242158 Because the workers are dumb

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:14:32 2015 No.6242159 because working class people in the west benefit from the exploitation of workers in the global south.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:18:18 2015 No.6242171 File: 68 KB, 804x802, ohyeahfeel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242145 >implying that's not the future you were promised

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:20:41 2015 No.6242179 too busy working

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:21:32 2015 No.6242182 >>6242119 Because they were easily led astray by nationalist war propaganda and social security.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:26:36 2015 No.6242206

>>6242155
>causing bloodshed is a bad thing
>"you can't rush these things"

Why call it a revolution then? Why not just stick to a gradualist transition? Let's take 8 million years to end capitalism! :D ^-^ ~~~

NO. If there was a peaceful way, great, but there is no way the ruling class will move over peacefully. Think about all the people who die because we DON'T cause a violent revolution. Compare 200,000~ a year with like, 5,000 ONCE. I know which I'd choose.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:27:28 2015 No.6242211

Following WWII governments had an unusual power, and there was a general feeling, following 15 years of crisis and war, of "reconstruction"

So the government turned all its apparatus towards the construction of a better society, the post-war social democratic model was born, and leftists in the west (understandably) believed they could expand from there instead of having to resort to worker's organization again.

Of course, any intelligent person born after the 80's know this is no longer the case, even if the regular joe continues to believe that voting the right person in that person will be able to conjure all the power an Adenauer or an Attlee had, and that welfare was first given to him as the materialization of a social contract inherent to democracy, and not just as part of another contract that said "you don't become a bolshevik, and we'll give you some concessions" that has expired decades ago.

The 1945-1980 period could have killed the Left, but instead it just gave us more and more reason to believe that the radicals of the 1870-1920 period were right. We just have to return to their practices.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:28:58 2015 No.6242216 >>6242155 The 11th Thesis.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:30:49 2015 No.6242223 >>6242119 Beacause now the shitty jobs are done by illiterate third world brownskins and Asians and we don't give 0.5 fucks about them

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:31:52 2015 No.6242231 >>6242206 >implying killing 200,000k a year is wrong Sweetie I'm sorry but there absolutely was truth and value in Social Darwinism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:32:13 2015 No.6242234 File: 35 KB, 533x399, Nope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242119 Because Marx's "thinking" and "theories" are full of shit. (As are Ayn Rand's.) There's no connection to reality and how people really are.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:33:04 2015 No.6242240 Because Marxism's boring.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:33:11 2015 No.6242241 >>6242231 >being this edgy

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:34:14 2015 No.6242247 >>6242130 tips tin foil hat

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:34:48 2015 No.6242252

>>6242171
black trans movies are a tiny sliver of a sliver of a half of a quarter of a grain of sand of an atom of .000001% of what the Far-Left stands for. Liberals jump on these issues because it's the only thing their bourgeois "Democratic Party" can get right (because they have a brain cell or 2 more than conservatives). But in the words of the advisor of Bill Clinton's '91 campaign, "IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID." And it is. Change the base and the superstructure will also change.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:36:07 2015 No.6242256
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>>6242130
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

Look into the Rothschild family and the Rockefeller family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE_5Y9IKCk0

There's nothing to be done about any of it, but it's interesting all the same.

Follow the money.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:36:07 2015 No.6242257 if low wage losers had what it takes to change the world they wouldn't be low wage losers in the first place. the sooner you realize the sooner you can discard childish marxisms.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:36:49 2015 No.6242260 >>6242240 Nothing will ever be as boring as cynical, pro-establishment attitude. Nothing. It's the most predictable, knee-jerky reaction you can have, and when you choose it, the only person you'll ever impress is yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:40:35 2015 No.6242281 File: 11 KB, 460x276, boo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242252 Gosh it's getting spooky in here.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:40:42 2015 No.6242282 File: 575 KB, 4688x4688, 1299827572337.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242260 >the establishment

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:41:54 2015 No.6242287 >>6242282 Yeah there isn't such thing because hippies and OWS people use the term a lot, am I right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:42:53 2015 No.6242291 >>6242260 >worrying about your ideology being "impressive" more than it being correct you've already lost

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:42:58 2015 No.6242293 >>6242256 also, the bronfman family or whoever those canadian faggots who own seagrams gin are another family that puts a lot of money into foiling lefty shit

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:43:36 2015 No.6242301 >>6242119 lack of class consciousness.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:43:39 2015 No.6242302

>>6242231
killing 200,000 (actually much more) a year because of the current system simply isn't justified. This isn't a mass genocide of the inferior, the weak and the stupid. This is a systematic error where people from all capacities, of all talents, of all genetic variations, end up in abject poverty or in a struggling middle class. You could be an "Aryan" (if such a thing even exists), but under capitalism, if you aren't lucky enough to be born in a certain class, the chances of you dying before you hit 20 are much higher than they ought to be.

But if we as a society could join together and imprison/murder the oppressors for once, we wouldn't have to deal with this. Were we this morally righteous when we ended feudalism and monarchy with our French and American Revolution? No. We did what we had to do. The proletariat will one day also do what it has to do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:44:07 2015 No.6242304 >>6242260 Fucking stupid

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:44:59 2015 No.6242309

>>6242287
no, it's just a stupid term, you could easily argue that steve jobs, a billionaire capitalist, disrupted the establishment by bringing computing to the masses...but since he was a rich successful guy who made nice stuff people like im sure you'll say he was a villain or something, which just shows "establishment" is a "stop liking stuff i don't like" term

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:46:43 2015 No.6242317 File: 101 KB, 399x554, 1424836040895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242287 feel free to let me know who's part of it

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:49:11 2015 No.6242326

>>6242291
The chances of the current arrangement, that have changed a lot in 30 years and will probably change a lot more in the next 30, being "correct" despite being a singular situation in thousands of years of human development that might never be repeated again, is minimum. Yet more people today will stick by it than any other arrangement. Why? Because changing things is boring, and it's more self-satisfying to cross your arms, put on a smirk and sneer at everyone asking for reform, left or right.

This is all I'm talking about. Before we even begin get to worry about what is the "correct" philosophy we need to stop being so impressed with ourselves.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:51:19 2015 No.6242337 >>6242309 So because someone introduced a new commodity in the market there's no such thing as an "establishment"? I keep forgetting that the best way to deal with cynics is to force them to say something, the stupidity is always telling.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:52:09 2015 No.6242343 >>6242337 luckily there is no establishment in communist countries like cuba and north korea!

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:52:50 2015 No.6242345 >>6242326 What reforms specifically are you asking for?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:53:00 2015 No.6242346 >>6242343 Luckily there's no other possible option other than liberal democracy and soviet socialism!

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:54:09 2015 No.6242353

>>6242234
>^hasn't actually read Marx,
>thinks communism is "everyone is equal"
>thinks socialist states like the USSR & DPRK are "communist."
>brings up No-True-Scotsman Fallacy when you tell him this isn't communism even though it really isn't (by definition)
>wants capitalism to go on because he likes his commodities (playstation 3, iPod, nice house) and thinks the Commies will force him to use 3 sheets f toilet paper only.
>"who cares about the poor? I'm doing fine. Why should I care"
>2015
>being this misinformed

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:56:44 2015 No.6242364 >>6242302 Eat me, prole.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:57:28 2015 No.6242367 >>6242345 Reforms? I haven't been a reformist since my Olof Palme phase.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:57:49 2015 No.6242370 >>6242301 this >>6242159 this is other reason. lot of workers of the developed nations vote for rigth wing parties because immigrants are their immediate competitors. (but deep inside they are all working class)

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 16:59:26 2015 No.6242380 >>6242353 You're typing on a commodity right now you retard. >benefiting from the capitalist establishment at the expense of the third world

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:01:35 2015 No.6242388 >>6242367 You just criticized people who don't want to fix the current economic system because they don't see it as broken. Why are they wrong?

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:02:08 2015 No.6242397

>>6242343
>"communist countries"
No. It's "socialist states." Communism is stateless.

>DPRK and Cuban establishment is mostly state-capitalist in special economic zones or government officials (who need some extra money to make sure they don't get shot)

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:02:14 2015 No.6242398 >>6242380 Hahaha see? Typical. >YOU LIVE IN __ YET YOU CRITICIZE IT A BIT IRONIC UH?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:02:53 2015 No.6242402 File: 10 KB, 242x209, 1423148752154.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242155 >>6242206 >>6242302 This exchange really proves that revolutions and Gommunism is tacitly statist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:04:07 2015 No.6242406 >>6242130 Jewish. Capitalism is just a tool to an end to them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:05:19 2015 No.6242416 File: 7 KB, 224x225, cuntbag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242402 hey shut the fuck up

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:07:01 2015 No.6242426

>>6242388
You're really trying hard to have your Guy-with-camera-in-OWS moment, aren't you? Unfortunately I'm not ready to have a long discussion where every point will be refuted by "why don't you start your own company then?" - normally I compensate this by recommending literature but with you, I already know I shouldn't even bother.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:07:27 2015 No.6242429 >ctrl+f >no gramsci it's literally what he wrote about

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:08:10 2015 No.6242436 >>6242234 >As are Ayn Rand's why do you think that's worth mentioning you don't consider Rand a serious intellectual, right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:08:14 2015 No.6242437 File: 112 KB, 400x489, umad1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242416 You mad statist scum?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:10:04 2015 No.6242449 >>6242426 You're a good shitposter

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:10:15 2015 No.6242450

>>6242380
a 3rd worldist cannot escape what he is due to his surroundings. He lives in the 3rd world and can only behave in a manner which is an extension of the culture of the 3rd world. He's also limited to the resources allocated to him in the 3rd world.

How am I any different? I am much better off. But I too am inescapably a part of my class, my environment, my culture and material conditions. Giving up my commodities and living in the woods somewhere would be fine and all, but it wouldn't solve any problems and wouldn't even leave a dent to the global imperialist system. It's best to spread propaganda online, give what I can, theorize with the resources I can, and support insurgent groups prepared for a 3rd world revolution (such as the Naxalites, the Venezuelans, and the student movements in Mexico). Communicating ensures that the message of Marxism is not lost to pamphlets and history books. It keeps it as a vivid, active, living ideology which had not died and will not die.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:11:02 2015 No.6242457 >>6242436 I wondered the same. He's probably trying to throw a random potshot at the Right while he criticises Marx to make it look like he's coming from a very rational, non-"ideological" position or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:11:34 2015 No.6242463 >>6242426 >fucking up your argument this badly

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:13:03 2015 No.6242467 >>6242429 I think Gramsci's idea themselves are responsible for the failure of the left. He has been much more influential than the Frankfurt school, /pol/'s favorite scarecrow, in leading the left to give up class warfare in favor of identity politics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:14:49 2015 No.6242479 Because of the ruling ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:15:37 2015 No.6242485 >>6242206 >5,000 ONCE Uhh. Uhhhhhhh. You might want to look at the body count previous revolutions have gotten.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:18:48 2015 No.6242501

>>6242450
I don't know if you know this, but the entire Pink Tide in South America is risking collapse. Venezuela is in the shitter, and so is Argentina. Brazil just dodged a huge neoliberal reformation that would have happened if the center-right party had won the last election, because the economy is also doing poorly.

"Third-world leftism" is unsustainable, period. Capital flight alone makes it more profitable for them to attempt a moderate social liberalism than anything meaningful. The fact the left keep telling themselves that IT'S HAPPENING somewhere in Africa, South America or Asia just seems to me like an attempt of dodging the facts: that the early Marxists were right when they said a revolution had to start on the developed world and then spread.

>>	ΟΥΤΙΣ Sun Mar 8 17:19:38 2015 No.6242509 American hegemony mostly. Also because communism really got a bad rap seeing as how nation which professed to follow the ideology of communion had or has a shitty standard of living and poor civil liberties.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:23:14 2015 No.6242535

Because I like living in an economic system that has benefited the entire world with an unprecedented pace of technological growth and the enormous boost in living standards and the vast array of choices and freedom it brings to the people that live under it.
In the last 20 years, the amount of people living in poverty has halved, and the amount of children in the world inoculated against the measles in 80%.
Go eat a dick Marx.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:23:17 2015 No.6242536

>>6242485
yes, the body count has been much more due to famines, wars and such things. But the ratio is pretty solidly there. No one cares if millions of peasants die within a decade. That's "a natural part of life." But if the murders are direct and swift, you get the myth of the gulag. The ruling class is really small and wouldn't result in many deaths. But because middle class reactionaries (nationalists, theocrats, social-democrats, fascists, anarchists, liberals, libertarians, etc.) defend their masters so well, there is enough to bribe the world to split in 2.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:24:49 2015 No.6242543 >>6242509 Of course. Good standards of living and civil liberties are bourgeois inventions of capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:26:07 2015 No.6242551 >>6242119 Because capitalism has proven itself over the past century to be the best economic system.

>>	ΟΥΤΙΣ Sun Mar 8 17:26:23 2015 No.6242557 >>6242543 Yeah, Marx said that I think.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:28:40 2015 No.6242572 >>6242557 Yeah, so it's not really surprising that it got a bad rap now is it? I mean, how delusional are you if you think a technological and prosperous society is wrong, or immoral.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:32:32 2015 No.6242607 because those with a little money see those below them as scum

ΟΥΤΙΣ Sun Mar 8 17:34:06 2015 No.6242617

>>6242572
Yeah, I'm a right-wing futurist and a fascist, so of course I concur with you. Nonetheless I don't think you understand Marxism, which doesn't see capitalism as some sort of evil system, but a major advancement over preceding systems, but one that has become obsolete.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:34:18 2015 No.6242619 >>6242551 That was funny

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:39:46 2015 No.6242653

>>6242617
Ehm, I'm pretty sure that a value system is inseparable from Marxist dialectic. If it all was an objective and empirical pursuit for the next stage in political economy, there would be no reason for the virulent and hateful rhetoric they use, such as hatred for rich people, and demanding their death ad nauseum.

I disagree with you entirely. I fully understand dialectical materialism, I assure you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:43:41 2015 No.6242687 >>6242130 I believe the exact opposite only with true rightism Maybe they're trying to keep everyone centered (and thus easily manipulated) so they throw monkey wrenches into every political movement

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:45:04 2015 No.6242694 >>6242119 Because your average Schmuck identifies more with a richer bloke from his country than someone of his same socioeconomic situation halfway round the word. "Class solidarity" has to be the most retarded form of mass action ever conceived.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:50:25 2015 No.6242742 >>6242619 ...says the guy posting from his comfy home with his fridge full of food.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:56:44 2015 No.6242782

>>6242119
Because German toilet cleaner (he's mildly retarded and has strict family that won't let him become welfare leech) earns six times as much as Belarussian one (he has to take care of his sick mother and can't move to clean toilets in Germany) while dpoing the same job.

Would master race aryan toilet cleaner feel any kinship towards dirty unproductive slavshit poorfag toilet cleaner when he's obviously superior because humanity values him six times as much?

>>	ΟΥΤΙΣ Sun Mar 8 17:57:53 2015 No.6242793 >>6242653 Well it's the same thing with people who are into science as some sort of identity thing, they'll use virulent rhetoric for anything unscientific, like philosophy and religion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 17:58:40 2015 No.6242800 >>6242536 lol you are a caricature of a communist please wake up kid

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:00:19 2015 No.6242807

>>6242551
The defining factor of our, or any economic system in past 200 centuries has been statism.

It masquerades as free market capitalism for ideological purposes.

But then you consider the size of the public sector even in a country where it's relatively small, money is just going round in the same circle.

Then you think well there's the whole private sector, but turns out he state being what it is, you can trace the support for all private enterprise back to public sector.

Then as we found out recently, the whole economic is underwritten by the public sector.

So it turns out, despite our pretensions about freedom and innovation, we desperately avoid the risk that would bring. We opt for the conservatism of state economic security every time.

And it's not just the security we prefer. The whole notion that private enterprise is the creative side, while public employment can't be growth producing is a falsehood.

In practicality, it's the state which is behind works the private sector wouldn't go near (at least not until it's complete and made good). Government recognises the need,spearheads the project and outsources bits and pieces where it overflows.

Afterwards private individuals will move in and their work amounts to putting the icing on the prebaked cake until the cake is ruined so someone has to come in to restart it.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:00:20 2015 No.6242808

>>6242782
exactly, this is what's funny in america, the left all bitch that wages have stagnated but if you suggest stemming the flow of illegal immigrants you will be called a racist and shouted down...you can't support dudes who work for 50 dollars a day and complain that no one can make a living wage anymore.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:01:10 2015 No.6242815 >>6242206 The government's police state capabilities are far too strong, we'd all be slaughtered, not to mention "Communist" is as derogatory a word as "Nazi" in America. So it's unlikely the revolution would have widespread support.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:02:00 2015 No.6242820 File: 29 KB, 500x500, class.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The masses under capitalism deny the existence of class. The middle class denies it more than anyone.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:03:04 2015 No.6242828 >>6242807 >capitalism is the best >but capitalism is really statism i think everyone who is honest about capitalist admits that it's a carefully managed system and not some "natural" system, but that doesn't mean it's still not the best system

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:04:23 2015 No.6242831 File: 16 KB, 600x400, o3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why haven't the jerkers of the world united?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:06:16 2015 No.6242844 >>6242831 why don't they betas rise up and kick chad's ass? because if they had the balls to do that they wouldn't BE betas!

ΟΥΤΙΣ Sun Mar 8 18:06:39 2015 No.6242847

>>6242653
>tic. If it all was an objective and empirical pursuit for the next stage in political economy, there would be no reason for the virulent and hateful rhetoric they use, such as hatred for rich people, and demanding their death ad nauseum.
I might also add that this is not logical. If something far superior to vaccines were available that made vaccines obsolete, yet certain people only wanted vaccines and said vaccines (presumably those who stood to profit from them most) were the endpoint and nothing should ever replace them, it would be reasonable to have a sort of hatred of people who were in favor of vaccines, without rejecting the importance of vaccines.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:06:58 2015 No.6242849

>>6242831
That's actually a great idea, we could have million neckbeard march on the capitol and then jack off all over it until a dictatorship of the proletariat is established!

They won't be able to fight back when they're being doused in that much semen.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:08:39 2015 No.6242861 >>6242849 >that much semen from people who jerk off multiple times every day?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:09:06 2015 No.6242863 >>6242849 >sadfrog.png >yfw u realize there will be a black president before there is a permavirgin president

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:09:14 2015 No.6242864

>>6242820
>muh class
Jesus who cares.
Capitalism does nothing to stop me from enjoying my life. It shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying their's either. If people are going to be sad sacks of shit they'll be that way regardless of capitalism or communism. People who grope out for communism as the answer to all of life's problems because of the boogeyman of the rich is the problem why everything is wrong as just limp wristed shits who can't be assed to go and make what they want out of their life. There's no fucking ideological war between the classes, just people who don't want to make their way in life, and want someone else to blame for their problems.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:09:58 2015 No.6242866 >>6242861 Well, I guess.. we could abstain for a couple days prior.... You may have found a serious flaw in this plan...

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:11:01 2015 No.6242877 File: 55 KB, 410x300, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242864 how does that kool-aid taste, comrade?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:12:01 2015 No.6242882 File: 787 KB, 480x360, good on u.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242206 >Think about all the people who die because we DON'T cause a violent revolution. Compare 200,000~ a year with like, 5,000 ONCE.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:12:04 2015 No.6242883 >>6242808 Shouldn't the left complain that Mexicans don't make living wage?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:12:28 2015 No.6242888 >>6242864 Classic response. You should read the book because it reads you like one.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:13:53 2015 No.6242900

>>6242877
You have literally 5 seconds to explain to me how Communism isn't just people projecting their inability to put the effort into life onto an all encompassing ideological system that grants them power over people they have resentment towards for achieving what they couldn't.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:14:55 2015 No.6242907 >>6242883 you would think that, but that's not what's happening

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:15:10 2015 No.6242910

>>6242864
Don't worry your pretty little head, it's unlikely that any kind of revolution will happen in our lifetime.

Especially since the modern moderate left is composed of bourgeoisie hedonists, and the radical left is too fat to fight.

But oh if we could do it...

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:15:19 2015 No.6242913 >>6242900 It'll take five seconds to fill out the captcha, you're cheating him.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:26:41 2015 No.6242978

>>6242900
It would be pretty hard to stage a communist revolution without putting in significant effort, much more risk and effort than to just continue to live your life.

If you don't think the Wealthy wield majority of the power over the state then you are truly blind.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:29:23 2015 No.6242996

>>6242450
Anon from a third world country here, I don't behave as an extension of the culture from my country. This whole mentality of "I am living in a shit hole, therefore I should limit myself to the shit hole" is the damnation of third world countries.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:32:45 2015 No.6243011

>>6242978
Okay, see, who gives a shit if wealthy people have power over the state.
Literally what the fuck does this have to do with my life and my ability to go and do the things I want.
All it is, is a boogeyman that people put their own failings on, and direct their hatred and misery in life towards. Some dude owning a factory you work at has literally nothing to do with how you chose to live your life. After whatever revolution you people have, nothing is going to change. People who are miserable unambitious shits are still going to be miserable unambitious shits that will latch onto another all encompassing ideology because it makes them feel like they have power over those they direct their hatred towards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:32:48 2015 No.6243012 File: 366 KB, 1225x1492, Adriaen_Brouwer_0041-e1412971562330.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >working what fucking century is this?

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:36:41 2015 No.6243032

>>6242119
Because capitalism is the perfect system for somehow evolved animals. Anything else seems to conflict too much with our shitty nature and would require ridiculous amounts of education, that is unlikely to happen in a capitalistic society.

Waiting for the next big crisis is your best call, nigguh.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:39:46 2015 No.6243047

>>6243011
>Okay, see, who gives a shit if wealthy people have power over the state.
>Literally what the fuck does this have to do with my life and my ability to go and do the things I want.
Jesus Christ, you can't be serious. You don't live in a vacuum, you know.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:40:32 2015 No.6243052 The party should actively help non-union worker unionize instead of working w/in existing union. Non-unionized workers are a lot more class conscious.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:45:33 2015 No.6243078

>>6243047
>You don't live in a vacuum, you know.
Wait, do you like actually believe rich people have magical mind control rays or something?
Some dude making money from the place I work at doesn't mean jack shit. Other than showing up for work on time, I have absolutely no obligation to him.
Unless you're trying to tell me Communism is a magical society where noone has to work ever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:49:14 2015 No.6243097 >>6243078 All this straw, all these density. Another hopeless case.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:49:47 2015 No.6243100 >>6243097 You can make a point at anytime.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:50:09 2015 No.6243104 >>6243032 How isn't this the next big crisis?

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:50:31 2015 No.6243105

>>6243078
It will be once we achieve Star Trek-like post-scarcity.

The rich take a disproportionate amount of the wealth, and they pay off the politicians to keep the cycle perpetuated.

Surely you can't be ok with the middle class shrinking and more people becoming poor?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:51:06 2015 No.6243108 >>6243100 You'll have to direct your posts to me first.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:52:59 2015 No.6243118 >>6243104 Oh please, the situation in the first world is still fucking great. Now if Greece leaves the EU and have other countries following them, this could cause some action, other than that it'd be business as usual for a while clearly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:53:12 2015 No.6243119 Cause there is no active Leftist organisation that is in direct contact with the workers. Unions and the Social Democrats are in bed with the capitalists and the Communist/Anarchist party's are participating in post modernism.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:53:32 2015 No.6243122

>>6243105
>Surely you can't be ok with the middle class shrinking and more people becoming poor?
Wait, do people actually believe this myth?
And what fucking cycle? That some people have more of a meaningless piece of paper that doesn't mean shit once they die? Yeah wow, I know I spend every second of my day in a depression since I don't have that.
http://www.ey.com/GL/en/Issues/Driving-growth/Middle-class-growth-in-emerging-markets

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:55:29 2015 No.6243136 File: 32 KB, 408x632, Shut it down.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242119

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:57:15 2015 No.6243143

>>6243122
>By 2030, we believe two-thirds of the global middle class will live in the Asia-Pacific region, up from just under one-third in 2009. On the other hand, although North America’s and Europe’s middle class populations will stay roughly constant, their share of the population will be drastically reduced — Europe’s by more than half, to 14% by 2030.
You should actually read the articles you frantically googled before posting them. No shit middle classes are growing in developing countries; any Marxists could tell you that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:57:36 2015 No.6243148 The actual working class are religious, conservative, rednecks who hate fags, niggers and jews. The people who are socialist or Marxists are limp wristed middle upper class college educated hipsters who despise the real working class

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:58:03 2015 No.6243153 >>6243143 So, growing middle class doesn't count when you don't want it to? Gotcha.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 18:58:08 2015 No.6243154 >>6243119 >the Communist/Anarchist party's are participating in post modernism. elaborate on this, fuckwad

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:02:49 2015 No.6243180 >>6242119 What do you mean by united and for what purpose?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:04:28 2015 No.6243195 >>6243119 Excellent point, these days Big Labor represents their members interests about as much as Big Oil or Pharma does.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:04:47 2015 No.6243199 >>6243148 this. If the working class ever truely rebels, the dyed-hair dykes will be the first on the chopping block.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:05:02 2015 No.6243202 >>6243153 Nice deflection.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:06:01 2015 No.6243210 >>6243202 What deflection. You said the middle class was shrinking. I posted a link that explicitly showed it was growing. You proceeded to say it didn't count.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:08:40 2015 No.6243227 >>6243011 Stop using "literally" you fucking mongoloid.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:14:47 2015 No.6243249

>>6242828
people recognise it as tinkering because it's presented as the state simply perfecting, ironing out the creases etc to preserve the idea that individualism is the root.

but it's much more than tinkering. the state sets the agenda. trade and industry is controlled by the state. private 'owners' take the reward. When it's low profit it's because of state mismanagement, when it's high it's because of close working with the state.

basically, the secret to success is get in with the politicians and that's why you can no longer simply call it 'careful management' or private enterprise (capitalism) in my opinion.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:18:44 2015 No.6243288

>>6242119
Because race, religion, language, culture, history, and in a strange way geo-politics stop workers having more in common with the working men of Country X than their own elite.

For example a western working class white male. A white person speaking the same language, from his country, from his region, his religious historical background (secular Christian or atheist) and his culture will seem like a more natural ally than someone who does not fulfil these criteria. Hence the rise of UKIP, FN, and other rightist parties in times of austerity, not a hard left party.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:18:44 2015 No.6243289 >>6242828 I’m not saying it’s not the best system but we won’t admit to what it is. I’m all in favour of statism. But I think we need to make it work both ways. Too often we have the state supplying one side and not the other.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:25:07 2015 No.6243325 >>6243288 Hence why we have the Leninist idea of national self determination, each nationality gets it own region to govern. Of course in practice the dominant group (Russians, Han chinese) have always exploited the minorities...

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:28:21 2015 No.6243345 >>6243325 Yeah, but the question was why have the workers of the world not united.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:31:03 2015 No.6243358 >>6243345 Because there isn't a a great enough incentive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:31:14 2015 No.6243359 People are comfortable enough to not revolt also >racism >religious fighting >nationalism Whatever other "ism" you can come up with that divides people into us vs them

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:31:17 2015 No.6243360 File: 49 KB, 700x591, oh unkka joe you so silly.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6243325

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 19:59:53 2015 No.6243549 File: 803 KB, 3960x3240, amerikkka.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242130 >I actually believe there is an elite capitalist coalition with the sole purpose of preventing leftist movements from taking root There is

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:03:13 2015 No.6243571

>>6242742
>...says the guy posting from his comfy home with his fridge full of food.
do you honestly think the entire world is filled with comfy homes and fridges full of food? just because the exploitation has moved to the peripheries doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:11:58 2015 No.6243619 File: 76 KB, 1444x1258, well memed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242535

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:14:34 2015 No.6243631 >>6242864 tell that to an exploited middle eastern womyn working in a hot factory with bars on the windows and no safety precautions 14 hrs straight and afterwards going home to her husband to be raped and beaten.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:17:41 2015 No.6243644 >>6243148 errm.. the actual working class is the third world masses, and the real marxists come from all backgrounds.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:20:08 2015 No.6243656 >>6242535 >benefited the entire world kek

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:22:05 2015 No.6243667 >>6242119 Because they don't have the means.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:22:13 2015 No.6243669 >>6243619 >>6243656 Nice memes. Wouldn't expect any less from marxist "intellectuals"

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:22:30 2015 No.6243671 >>6242535 >the amount of people living in poverty has halved And you know it's true because they have twice as much money, right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:23:04 2015 No.6243674 >>6243669 marxist? because i laughed at you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:24:34 2015 No.6243684 >>6243674 Not that guy you laughed at. I assumed you were a marxist because you refuse to believe the fact that the liberalization of economies all over the world following the fall of the soviet bloc has led to a massive increase in prosperity.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:26:53 2015 No.6243692

>>6243684
>you refuse to believe the fact that the liberalization of economies all over the world following the fall of the soviet bloc has led to a massive increase in prosperity.

no, i refuse to believe that everyone (i.e. 'the entire world') has benefited from a general increased prosperity. some have, more haven't.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:27:03 2015 No.6243693 >>6243669 Are you implying that Afrika or India are centers of prosper and wealth, just flowing with freedom and stable living?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:27:38 2015 No.6243696 File: 142 KB, 883x990, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6243667 I laughed, I cried, etc.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:30:09 2015 No.6243706

>>6243692
Actually, since China and India make up most of the third world and considering that their gdp/capita have risen exponentially ever since they liberalized their respective economies, the statement "most of the developping world has become richer" is actually factually correct.

>>6243693
As an Indian (well, american of indian origin), I can assure you that the development India underwent in the past 20 years is phenomenal.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:34:32 2015 No.6243725 File: 21 KB, 410x371, 1376390545811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If (when?) communism is achieved, what will the average person live like? Will we all be able to have free iPads and Jordans?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:41:24 2015 No.6243758 File: 29 KB, 426x516, 020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242437 The anarchist idea of smashing the state is blocking their ears and covering their eyes. How do you propose to abolish the state with something weaker?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:42:58 2015 No.6243766 >>6243693 they are, except they were and are being plundered by imperialist piracy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:48:32 2015 No.6243797 Communism is no more viable for the future than capitalism. While the latter depends on infinite resources, the former is too work centric and given the progress with robots, building an ideology around work is just retarded.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:57:07 2015 No.6243822
File: 22 KB, 600x600, true freedom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6243758
The anarchist idea is not a violent revolution, but a moral one. To unite all peoples, not just workers, into a society of socially conscious individuals all stepping in to do their part. Far fetched I know, but if you're going to fight for a utopia, make it a good one. You can't expect to create a society of equality at the expense of the wealthy. Is it there fault for being good at making money? Those brainwashed into working for capital accumulation are just as much victims of the state as the proletariat. What is it the Internationale says "Freedom is merely privilege extended, if not enjoyed by one and all?"

>>6242437
Of course they are.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 20:59:04 2015 No.6243831 >>6243822 >You can't expect to create a society of equality at the expense of the wealthy. Is it there fault for being good at making money? You'll be a ron paul supporter within six months

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:01:30 2015 No.6243839 >>6242535 >the amount of people living in poverty has halved Bill Gates shill detected.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:02:51 2015 No.6243843 >>6242119 My personal conclusion: people kind of enjoy being weak and lacking dignity. It's a weird social disease.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:04:49 2015 No.6243848

>>6243725
No, you'll just keep working all day in a factory while telling yourself over and over you're liberated because now you are in control of the factory.
Then you die at 80 still having achieved nothing of note in life except for staring at an assembly line and dreaming of a better life.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:04:52 2015 No.6243849

>>6243831
In all seriousness, I once bought into the all encompassing us vs them mentality of communism, but I couldn't handle it anymore. Communists claim to want to unite all people, except for this group or that group. Anarchist philosophy, while more difficult to execute in the real world, seems vastly more appealing. Not everyone takes the "red pill" and sees the world how it really is. So rather than simply hang those people come revolution, the Anarchist seeks to help them see society for what it is, and more importantly what it could be.

>also I could care less about who's in office they are not my authority

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:05:00 2015 No.6243850 >>6243843 Tall Poppy Syndrome

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:05:08 2015 No.6243851 >>6242141 /thread

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:05:28 2015 No.6243853 >>6243797 robots are just dead labour, tho.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:06:15 2015 No.6243856 I wish there was a version of /lit/ without any Americans on it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:06:28 2015 No.6243859 >>6243822 >The anarchist idea is not a violent revolution, but a moral one textbook utopian, you can't change man's morals without changing his material conditions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:07:40 2015 No.6243864 >>6243850 wat

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:08:17 2015 No.6243867 >>6242119 Spooks

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:08:32 2015 No.6243869 >>6243848 Stay mad, bourgie.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:09:40 2015 No.6243873 >>6243864 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:12:19 2015 No.6243883 >>6243849 >Communists claim to want to unite all people literally the exact opposite lol

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:16:04 2015 No.6243898

>>6243873
>The tall poppy syndrome is a pejorative term primarily used in the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
Welp. I don't really think I have some kind of merit that makes me better than everyone else, it's just that the only explanation I can find about how society works is masochism. I'd appreciate some further criticism on my views, I'm genuinely interested on this stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:20:49 2015 No.6243913 >>6243898 I'm not saying you have it, I'm saying that theory sounds a lot like what you're saying and I agree with you to some extent.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 21:24:25 2015 No.6243923

>>6243913
I don't want to sound like THAT fag (you know what I mean), but I seriously believe there's some unconscious masoichist shit going on society in general. People (generalizing, sorry) unconsciously want to be stepped on. That's it. This is why we can't have nice things.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:03:45 2015 No.6244052 >>6243898 >pejorative I love the word "pejorative"; I could say it all day

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:20:28 2015 No.6244125 Because classless societies are a pipe dream and communism in practice leads to despotic monarchy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:24:10 2015 No.6244139 >>6244125 Let's take your word as true. Is there any desirable alternative possible?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:24:49 2015 No.6244144 >>6242119 Because few workers have heart. They put down their signs and clubs when they got their extra ten cents an hour and minimal social welfare.

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:51:22 2015 No.6244238

>>6242179
This is the real answer. Depending on the circumstances you were born into and/or the choices you made as a young person (usually based upon a world you did not yet understand), it can be difficult just to survive.

I'm not asking for pity or blaming society, I realize it's a bed of my own making, but: living in poverty is very difficult and taxing. I'm generally working 1 of my 2 jobs or at my household trying to fix all the broken shit and feed myself without much money. These things are both physically/mentally taxing, and time consuming. Not complaining, I'm happy I have a place to live these days.

Just saying that I agree with the proposition that a lot of working class folks, that maybe disagree with the current system, are too busy just trying to survive in it.

Free time to protest and/or be an activist is really a luxury for those with enough means and time to do such things.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 22:53:09 2015 No.6244245 >>6242119 They may have overestimated worker solidarity

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 23:05:55 2015 No.6244289
File: 7 KB, 473x454, 1423520621169.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can a kind anon explain the differences between Marxism, Socialism, Communism, Trotskyism, and Leninism?

I know Communism is the end result of Socialism, Trotskyism and it's "eternal revolution" fought and lost against Stalin, and Marx is considered the root of all these branches (despite the fact that Socialism/Communism preceded Marxism). Are there any other differences?

New to English, so let me know if I fucked something up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 23:12:11 2015 No.6244319 >>6244289 Between them is the dictation of the proletariat and what it means in practical terms

Anonymous Sun Mar 8 23:26:12 2015 No.6244381

>>6242119
Because current leftism is based around the nostalgic idea of mass movements, which are clearly impossible. There is a lot more that divides (and unites) people beyond the fact of whether they sell their labor or not. Resistance is most effective in affinity groups rn. We have to think beyond mass movement and liberal universalism that assumes some commonality in humanity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 8 23:32:31 2015 No.6244404 >>6244319 Thank you my friend.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 00:28:01 2015 No.6244612 >>6243249 Not him, but do ya got any sources for such bold claims, bud?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 02:12:01 2015 No.6244909 >>6244381 >I don't work >I'm not a union member Thank you for the tea and sympathy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 03:15:15 2015 No.6245079 >>6242130 do you mean the rightists? because ya, they exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 04:19:20 2015 No.6245237 >>6242536 >myth of the gulag holy shit man

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 04:21:43 2015 No.6245244 >>6242536 are u from /r/communism or revleft lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 04:50:56 2015 No.6245305 >>6244381 Wut? A) Mass movements are still alive. And no, affinity groups don't work. What, all black people in America should side with Obama, Herman Cain, Condoleeza Rice, etc?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 04:52:54 2015 No.6245315 >>6244238 This is largely true, however I think things can change. In Greece/Europe, across the ME, people were/are dirt poor, but are forced into struggle because they have to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:00:28 2015 No.6245329 >>6244238 They used to struggle with 14 and 16 hour days. >>6245315 Worse is better is 1st world Maoist bullshit as an excuse to avoid union organising.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:03:45 2015 No.6245338 >>6245329 Oh I don't agree worse is better, it can often go the other way, people are too ground down to do anything. And srsly, fucken Maoists in the first world: there is no peasantry in the first world. I'm all for unions and union organising.

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:32:05 2015 No.6245391

>>6242907
>>6242883
>>6242808
"livable" wage was once separated in the labor market in the states, you had "good paying jobs" and all that bullshit (people putting can goods on shelves for like $20 an hour adjusted after inflation), then you had menial unskilled labor stuff that paid a hell of a lot less (little kids picking strawberries in the summer for a nickel per 5lb bucket, gas station jockeys getting paid a dime an hour) and businesses would invest in their labor force (union or not) with job training, now after the change towards service industry, and industrialization of nations with cheaper labor costs, businesses send their labor elsewhere, or with the minimum wage, they just pay the minimum across the board for starting wages, and keep turnover rates high, and expect skilled labor for said pay, people want 2 years experience to wash fucking dishes, if the place is union, then like UPS, its 8.75 nationwide before taxes and union dues (which is absolute shit money certain places) but you got healthcare (pre obamacare) and then you get up to the drivers and master sorters who make $40 an hr, then you have places like amazon, who outsources labor to temp agencies and pays min wage, no advancement in wages, and has a laundry list of OSHA complaints from warehouses, and you have black cash jobs , of labor filled with immigrants, that were once held by adolescents and kids (sometimes still are)

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:51:46 2015 No.6245443

>>6245391
yea, people should be paid more than the bare minimum, but what are they being paid for? These protests for $15 minimum wage, from international companies that hire them flip burgers and have people stand by the door and greet you, they are not made up of emancipated teenagers who have to pay their own rent, theyre made of grown adults, there is a certain point at which mass unskilled labor like this has to be avoided, yeah, wallmart, mcdonalds and starbucks are able to pay them twice as much as a small buisness would and they dont, but these companies would hire 8 year olds to do these peoples jobs and pay them in skittles were it legal (if it were legal, then they would have, as having shareholders, they would be breaking the law if they didn't hire 8 year olds)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:55:57 2015 No.6245452 >>6245391 >>6245443 So burn more warehouses.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:58:38 2015 No.6245457 >>6245452 no, make more (outside the pre-existing companies), pay people what you want

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 05:59:43 2015 No.6245458 >>6245457 Remember what we're meant to have on our banner about the wage system? Higher wages aren't won by demanding higher wages.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:01:54 2015 No.6245463 >>6245457 Seize the means of production

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:04:07 2015 No.6245465

>>6242155
>being this new

From Sublime Object of Ideology:
>One already finds this logic of the error interior to truth in Rosa Luxemburg's description of the dialectic of the revolutionary process. When Eduard Bernstein raised objections apropos of the revisionist fear of taking power 'too soon', prematurely, before the 'objective conditions' have reached their maturity, she responded that the first seizures of power are necessarily 'premature': for the proletariat, the only way of arriving at 'maturity', of waiting for the 'opportune' moment to seize power, is to form themselves, prepare themselves for this seizure; and the only way of forming themselves is, of course, these 'premature' attempts ... If we wait for the 'opportune moment', we will never attain it, because this 'opportune moment' - that which never occurs without fulfilling the subjective conditions for the 'maturity' of the revolutionary subject - can only occur through a series of 'premature' attempts. Thus the opposition to the 'premature' seizure of power is exposed as an opposition to the seizure of power in general, as such: to repeat the celebrated phrase of Robespierre, the revisionists want 'revolution without revolution'.
>Once we examine things more closely, we see that Luxemburg's fundamental wager is precisely the impossibility of a metalanguage in the revolutionary process: the revolutionary subject does not 'conduct' the process from an objective distance, he is himself constituted through this process; and it is because the time of revolution occurs by means of subjectivity that no one is able to 'achieve revolution on time', following 'premature', insufficient efforts. The attitude of Luxemburg is exactly that of the hysteric faced with the obsessional metalanguage of revisionism: strive to act, even if prematurely, in order to arrive at the correct act through this very error. One must be duped in one's desire, though it is ultimately impossible, in order that something real comes about.

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:13:45 2015 No.6245483

>>6245458
then you invest in your workers with skills and such (forklift license, OSHA certification, harassing the woman in HR certification, advanced walking around the office eating a salad training, TPS report license or watever) to be able to be paid the wages they earn

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:17:00 2015 No.6245488 >>6245483 >my workers Yeah, I've watched the certification sham play out over 30 years. I'd rather see warehouses on fire. Fear raises wages.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:21:15 2015 No.6245502 >>6245488 >our workers cannot pay their bills >"what if we give people skills to pay said bills? or get rid of silly regulations here and there" >no BURN EVERYTHING! CAPITAL WILL SPREAD WHEN EVERYTHING IS ASHES!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:28:39 2015 No.6245513 >>6245502 My end game is the abolition of capital, friend, yours appears to be my enduring slavery.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:32:05 2015 No.6245522 >>6245513 I speak of getting rid of barriers to entry

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:38:49 2015 No.6245532 >>6245522 Fuck off cunt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:44:50 2015 No.6245538 >>6245532 less barriers, more access to means of production, money or not

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:45:43 2015 No.6245539 >>6245538 No, friend, it doesn't. Wages Price and Profit, or the market cap of Google ought to be evidence for you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:46:14 2015 No.6245542 资本家变本加厉地剥削工人,所以现在咱们需要用马列主义、毛泽东思想武装头脑。

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:52:39 2015 No.6245554 >>6245539 did you forgot the point its illegal for those large public companies to not do things that increase their profit?

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 06:58:04 2015 No.6245572

>>6245554
Your argument against the impossibility of a participatory capitalism based on the expanding OCC is that it is mandatory that participatory capitalism not exist at a fiduciary responsibility level? Are you always this incoherent, or do you work up to it with chemical assistance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 07:03:42 2015 No.6245586 >>6245572 also, another thing to add too many ways with which "bourgeoisie" or watever can force out competing markets or prevent new ones from starting

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 07:59:00 2015 No.6245652

>>6242119
>Why haven't the workers of the world united?
the workers were the kings just before the war and after 45, they manage to loose their power to the joy of the stock owners. Now, why would they be in charge anew, as they obviously cannot retain power ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 10:25:33 2015 No.6245936 Because they have very little in common.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 10:46:36 2015 No.6245987 >>6242119 Because of them jews.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 11:26:53 2015 No.6246083 >>6242119 Too many people. Too little time. Too far away goal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 11:30:04 2015 No.6246092 >>6242119 >simply >idealism ≠ reality

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 11:32:52 2015 No.6246100 >>6246083 >>6246092 bello magnifique!

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 12:52:05 2015 No.6246265

>>6242370
>>but deep inside they are all working class

Doesn't this beg the question?

Doesn't the continual failure of the proletariat to rise above national/racial/religious/* boundaries and recognize what they are told (and what most of us on the left assume/believe) are their real (that is, economic) interests?

It feels as if the primacy of economic interests is simply being asserted rather than having been proven.

And, a step below, all this is assuming that the economic interests we identify as being "real" are, indeed, real and better for the proletariat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 13:05:57 2015 No.6246303 >>6242910 >moderate left is composed of bourgeoisie hedonists the moderate left was always about bourgeoisie hedonists

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 13:10:51 2015 No.6246318 >>6243822 >into a society of socially conscious individuals all stepping in to do their part. and with this comes the possibility to shit on the society

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 13:43:28 2015 No.6246392 >>6242536 >anarchism >middle class >reactionary >being this stupid See, commies like you are the reason anarchists and communists can't get together for the sole purpose of making a better society. Read more

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 20:02:35 2015 No.6247722 People haven't made enough copies of immortal technique's mixtape.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 20:13:49 2015 No.6247775 >>6247722 Well, nigga had to ruin his shit with conspiracy theories.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 20:17:31 2015 No.6247789 >communism Are you fifteen?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 20:17:40 2015 No.6247790 Because they're gay.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 21:34:47 2015 No.6248185 >>6246265 Labour has two material interests. Sectional wage maximisation and universal wage abolition. They are in contradiction.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 21:42:10 2015 No.6248206 >>6243848 More like fuck bitches erreyday and men too because fuck capitalist social restraints yo i can stick my penis wherever

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 22:03:28 2015 No.6248259 >>6246092 >implying the closest you can get to an abstract ideal isn't the actual ideal

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 22:09:37 2015 No.6248282 >>6248259 >implying all of the implications

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 22:33:00 2015 No.6248393 >>6243822 Stop calling yourself an anarchist you fucking liberal.

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 22:37:06 2015 No.6248409

>>6243849
More liberal rhetoric. And you are "bluepilled" as fuck to think that all are equally victims of the state/capital and that politics isn't about the friend-enemy distinction.

Seriously, spend some time with laboring migrants or third world industrial workers and say that they are just as hurt by capitalism as your middle-class tearful "alienation."

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 23:49:41 2015 No.6248659 >>6248185 And every group of laborers seems to have pursued the first rather than the second interests. Shouldn't this tell us something?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 9 23:53:28 2015 No.6248676 Because they're too busy working. Same shit with the thinkers, they're too busy thinking. And the nigs are too busy nigging. Everyone's doing their own thing no one actually cares anymore.

Anonymous Mon Mar 9 23:56:02 2015 No.6248692

>>6242119
We need a global Labor Union so everyone can go on strike at the same time. "Confessions of the Last Lowly Warrior" talks about the importance of uniting in several different chapters, and even goes into why it is important for labor to unite together

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:08:03 2015 No.6248738

>>6248692
The IWW already tried that at a point in time where unions were more powerful and the strategy didn't work. Syndacalism is an important technique for bringing about crisis but it isn't sufficient for Western countries who overwhelmingly are turning towards under-unionized, nomadic service work.

The West's best hope is a partnership between radical minorities, immigrants, disaffected young service workers, students, and whatever remains of the industrial left. But an intense radicalization and reintroduction of Politics (with a capital P) along with a return to actually dangerous methods of resistance is needed.

1 radical is worth more than 100 liberals.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:23:41 2015 No.6248793

>>6248738
Yes, but the problem is that unions were not asking for the right things; they wanted little more money, or benefits, or time paid time off...labor needs to strike and demand a Labor Right Amendment to the constitution be ratified so that gets no less than 50% of the profits they produce. compensation should be tied to the amount of profits they produce. this is not profit sharing, as conservatives like to call it; since labor creates all wealth, it should be called profit retention. why lt the elite rob labor and then, once labor is impoverished, fight over social security, and medical insurance. you don't have to worry and fight over how to take care of the poor and when they get old if you don't let rob the elite rob them in their youth

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:26:58 2015 No.6248799 File: 404 KB, 1410x2250, 01010110101.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6248738 very true, radicals are the way forward. the most radical book you'll ever read is the Confessions. turns politics, economics and religion on its ear

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:33:34 2015 No.6248823

>>6248738
the main premise is that nothing we do will ever work so long as we live a feudal framework. it is the structure of society that is broken. we were never meant to be feudal. we are tribal beings. a world in which many (labor) works to provide a few (the elite) with wealth is unnatural. we were never meant to be broken on the rulers and the ruled; before the fall from tribal grave we were a unified tribal society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:36:35 2015 No.6248832 Communism is a threat used by workers to get what they want, not a desired outcome. If the choice is between seizing the reigns or getting dental plan, they're going to choose the dental plan.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 00:36:58 2015 No.6248836 >>6248659 Who were the CNT for starters. Never mind your ignorance of physical force chartism

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:29:45 2015 No.6248959

>>6248823
Rid yourself of that noble savage, humanist leftism.

I'm all for a heterogeneous world in which "backwards" groups remain outside urban worker-managed zones or large scale collective agriculture but such groups make up a minuscule proportion of organized humanity. The highland and semi-nomadic peoples of the world striving for autonomy are a presence to be supported, but the EZLNS, the SEA highland people, the central american mayans, the central asian semi-nomads, and such are not the model for most of the world.

They have a lot to provide in terms of communal techniques of organization, but an image of things to come they are not.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:34:50 2015 No.6248973

>>6244289
>I know Communism is the end result of Socialism

You got it backwards. It`s that Socialism is considered to be necessary stepping stone into communism, but this does not mean that socialists would want communism nor that socialism would even result in it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:37:50 2015 No.6248980 >>6247775 http://www.dailystormer.com/reddit-is-fertile-ground-for-recruitment/ they can do it so can we.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:51:16 2015 No.6249016

>>6248692
>>We need a global Labor Union so everyone can go on strike at the same time.
strikes are the universal solutions ? it is pointing a gun and asking who will be the weakest of the two . is it how you perceive the social interaction ?

what if nobody back down ? do you go on strike forever ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:54:20 2015 No.6249032 >>6248793 >since labor creates all wealth wow, how is this true ? what do you oppose to the laborers and therefore that you term thief ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 01:54:54 2015 No.6249036 File: 49 KB, 560x415, oprah-selma.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What's it called when someone's a Socialist, but isn't a cultural progressive? Can one be an economic leftist, but a cultural moderate?

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:03:03 2015 No.6249054

>>6248973
well, it depends if you're talking about revolutionary socialism (scientific socialism; Blanqui, Marx/Engels) or utopian socialism (St. Simon, Charles Fourier, Robert Owen).

With revolutionary socialism, it's a stepping stone or a transition phase.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:05:43 2015 No.6249066 >>6249036 >progressive >moderate Meaningless terms. The universal critique of all existing social relations. Marx's work on atheism is useful here: "Progressivism" is just as sick as cultural conservation. They eat from the same garbage.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:06:55 2015 No.6249070 >>6243849 Sounds like you are an idealist. You might as well vote conservative already. Communism is inherently materialist. Meaning it doesn't matter what people think.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:17:29 2015 No.6249095
File: 51 KB, 259x259, 61b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Leftists are angry because they see themselves as defeated by capitalism and powerless against the conservative status-quo
>Conservatives are angry because they see themselves as defeated by anti-traditional progressives, and powerless against them
Why does everyone always think they lost?

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:31:06 2015 No.6249131

>>6249095
Human nature, if you'd believe it.
I know the human nature argument is constantly used to describe man as he acts today, but ancient man was a team-player, and made it here by strong loyalty to kin groups and easy assimilation into "friend/foe" mentality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 02:52:11 2015 No.6249200 >>6249095 >WE HAVE A WORLD TO WIN SO COMRADES COME RALLY AND THE LAST FIGHT LET US FACE

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:09:25 2015 No.6249250 As a reactionary, I believe inequality is good and desire a return to feudalism. I don't know about other people, but that's the reason I haven't risen up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:17:03 2015 No.6249269 >>6249250 And yet you argue with an implicit acceptance of the bourgeois individual. Noice.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:23:52 2015 No.6249285

>>6249036
I think unless you have a very rudimentary socialist belief you'll probably see culture, morals, relationship values, family structures and so on as historically relative and nothing but a reflection of prevailing economic structure

So really there's no point being for or against any particular cultural arrangement

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:26:50 2015 No.6249291

>>6249250
The US system is just organized feudalism anyway. Very little of what the federal government does actually affects you personally, other than a few like drug laws and criminal offenses.

Infrastructure, education, many social issues, and even some drugs are left up to state and local governments.

I mean unless what you want is to dress up like Don Quixote and go adventuring to slay a dragon? I mean, hell yeah I'd return to feudalism if that's what that meant, but if we're talking political philosophy then America is the closest thing to feudalism in the Western world.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:34:08 2015 No.6249302

>>6242119
because capitalism offers the worker the slim chance that they may some day make it big and be able to be part of the bourgeois. this however is a pipe dream because in our state of advanced capitalism the wealth is getting concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. these same capitalists who sell this dream to the worker control the cogs of government and use it to their own gain. the capitalist keeps the populace at large ignorant by funneling money away from education and into programs and subsidies that benefit their class.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:36:43 2015 No.6249306 >>6242130 you say that like you never heard of fox news before

>>	Fingolsocialist !T4a87G1e8s Tue Mar 10 03:43:58 2015 No.6249321 File: 36 KB, 460x344, Stalin05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6249095 Compromise does not fit within any particular ideology. Neoliberals rule the world now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:55:03 2015 No.6249334 >>6243078 >i have absolutely no obligation to him then why dont you quit your job?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 03:56:10 2015 No.6249336 >>6243105 >>6243105 >expecting an idiot of that caliber to have a conscious

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 04:37:32 2015 No.6249393 >>6242119 Pussy, jewels and cars became an accessible thing to them. Fuck castrating the man when you can have a taste of his balls.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 08:31:59 2015 No.6249786
File: 225 KB, 900x693, the_stalin_mario_conspiracy_by_gruntchovski-d4kqqy6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6242501
Why would the majority of workers within the developed world want to fight for communism? They benefit way more by sticking with imperialism than going revolutionary.

When things like wage increase campaigns are under liberal leadership and when a lot of communist organizations are social democrats in practice, you know the first world won't do shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 09:01:55 2015 No.6249831 >>6249095 Because rightists still don't realise that capitalism is a revolutionary force that destroys all traditional values

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 11:28:30 2015 No.6250151 >>6249831 Most people to the right of conservatism do in fact realize this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 16:04:42 2015 No.6250945 >>6249250 What the fuck? Before Capitalism, people were even more oligarchical than you could imagine.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 16:27:16 2015 No.6251056 >>6249786 Abolition of wage slavery. Access to meaningful conduct without the terror of malnutrition and homelessness. Peace from activity in age. Freedom from arbitrary cultural dispossession. I'm on strike today btw.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 22:25:18 2015 No.6252429 >>6243011 It has everything to do with it

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 22:27:24 2015 No.6252437 >>6242864 Well, it is true that the wealth of a few is predicated upon the poverty of the many. the richer some get the poorer others must be.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 22:31:44 2015 No.6252446 >>6251056 yes, yes, abolition of wage slavery.

Anonymous Tue Mar 10 22:36:31 2015 No.6252460

>>6250945
But we still are oligarchical; even more so. nothing has change post enlightenment... te only difference is that the peasant (now called an employee) can hope to the aristocracy (now called the wealthy ruling elite). But we still have a society divided into the ruling call and a class ruled. Its still A Tale of Two Cities.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 22:54:01 2015 No.6252502 >>6242536 :^) waves red flag

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 23:05:39 2015 No.6252532 >>6242536 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBTSSYkGdho

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 10 23:14:27 2015 No.6252542 Nobody ever asked if they wanted to unite in the first place. Intellectuals just went around making plans and being disappointed when things didn't went along with their schemes.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 00:01:49 2015 No.6252637

>>6252502
you mean the white flag?
Read the first Confessions of the Last Lowly Warrior, second footnote will change your life. Are you familiar with classical myth and the religion of the Dogon in Africa. IF you look at all religion and myth through the lens provided in the Confessions it all makes sense. It ties all religion and myth together.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 01:16:21 2015 No.6252824 >>6252637 Go to bed William.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 01:33:09 2015 No.6252856 >>6252824 no, you go to bed, or at least take a nap. have some warm milk and close. go to sleep, do to sleep, rest your big bloodshot eyes, la la la, la la la, la la lad le la de da

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 02:02:20 2015 No.6252941 >>6252542 That's because the proles obviously couldn't think for themselves and needed to be pushed into what was best for them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 04:11:53 2015 No.6253150 >>6252941 Well they obviously can't. That's why intellectuals, merchants, and usurers have such an easy time manipulating them for their own ends. Except for Jewish parasites, we were all much better off under monarchy and papacy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 10:14:22 2015 No.6253661 >>6253150 Then they were obviously happier being used and abused than be free.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 11:33:05 2015 No.6253830 >>6248259 no. implying that an ideal, is in fact, an ideal; which is not synonymous with reality

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 12:00:23 2015 No.6253882 >>6242119 Because your job or social status isn't enough to unite millions of people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 12:37:38 2015 No.6253963 File: 109 KB, 812x531, f732e13f4934fc142bf899002f579b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] can this be disproven or is it a good argument against communism?

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 12:42:36 2015 No.6253976

>>6253963
It's not an argument against communism in any way, it's an argument against the people that guy imagines are arguing for communism, the idea of rednecks and ghetto gangs teaming up to take property from rich college kids sounds amazing to me I don't know any communist who'd be against this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:19:43 2015 No.6254076 >>6242119 Because Marxism as a whole has barely any contact with really.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:21:58 2015 No.6254082 Social welfare and propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:23:41 2015 No.6254088 >>6253976 I don't know how much lack of identity with your own being you must have to actually feel good about that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:27:10 2015 No.6254096 >>6254088 What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:27:26 2015 No.6254097 I posted this in the other Marx thread but I'll repost it here: I am about to start Marx and Engels myself, here's what I have lined up: Wage Labor and Capital Socialism: Scientific and Utopian German Ideology What do the Marxists on lit think?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:28:31 2015 No.6254105 >>6254076 True, Marxism is an ideology founded on the hatred of the strong by the weak.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:31:44 2015 No.6254118

>>6253661
I don't think so. Your argument seems a bit too generalized to reflect a complex social and political system. We Americans could liberate ourselves from the rule of the Wall Street Regime if we wanted, dismantle the plutocracy and restore democracy—but we do not. Is that because we like being ruled and abused, and dispossessed of the wealth we create? Or is because of a sense of overwhelming sense of hopelessness, or ignorance or an unquestioned tradition of servitude that seems inescapable to the average person? Right now, while there is still some semblance of the illusion of democracy in America, we could all stand together at once and demand publically funded elections; we can demand the abolition of lobbying and gerrymandering of the Congressional districts but we do now. Lobbying thwarts the will of the people, and gerrymandering makes congress and the senate unaccountable to the people. Occupy Wall Street and other groups over the years stand up one by one and always get knocked down one by one. Until we all stand together that is not much hope of defeating the wealthy elite who have entrenched themselves in the halls of government, and therefore functionally dictate foreign and domestic policy—even so, that does not mean we, or anyone else prefers to be subjugated by coercion and mechanical controls, or are happy to be deprived and dispossessed of their just prosperity and their formerly unalienable right to self-determination. It just means that humanity has been cowed by the wealthy ruling elite for so long it is hard to imagine we can be free. Your statement is a bit simplistic to reflect the complexity of what is going on in the world right now (in my opinion).

The real problem is not communism, but the feudal structure itself. Communism, capitalism, socialism, monarchism, parliamentarian all have failed to produce a content and prosperous people for more than a decade or two; and the only thing they all have in command is the feudal structure. Any society that is ruled, deprived, and abused will deteriorate and self-destruct, regardless of what name it political and economic systems is called by, and despite whatever, inconsequential variations are introduced to the feudal structure which can only separate and divide us. We are social beings and it is intrinsic to our innate moral nature (derived from behaviorism) that fairness, equality and ethics be applied universally to society since social ethics develop in lock step with social identity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:32:33 2015 No.6254121 I realaly wish this shit thread would slide off the board already

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:34:02 2015 No.6254125 >>6254118 ..so if you don't think socialism/communism is the answer what is?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:34:25 2015 No.6254127 >>6254105 It's more like a hatred of the aristocratic by the base. I think the last 300 years have proven that the Mob is in fact stronger.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:35:02 2015 No.6254130 >>6254121 >le butt mad socialist How does it feel to know that capitalism will rule for another 1000 years?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:38:18 2015 No.6254136 >>6254130 Rightist here, it makes me feel pretty resentful and angry. Even Stalinism is closer to traditional society than globalist capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:39:29 2015 No.6254138 >>6254097 stick to the first part of The German Ideology; add 2 other short texts: Feuerbach and the end of classic german philosophy and the 'preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy'

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:40:13 2015 No.6254140 >>6254136 Oh so you're a fascist? Even better.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:46:32 2015 No.6254154 >>6254140 lolno. I have no problem with fascism, it would certainly be preferable to the current situation, but I said rightist for a reason.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 13:50:15 2015 No.6254160 Jesus, this thread still going on? Commies have relentlessly been btfo'd

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:26:40 2015 No.6254263

>>6254125
PART TWO Labor needs to be dealt in directly to the wealth and property they create, (on a percentage of the gross value, and not just whatever the elite want to pout in their paychecks. This would require Labor Rights Movement similar to the Civil Right Movement of the 60's. Labor is central. You can go back in the anthropological record as far as you like, you will never reach a point in time when everyone was a member of the wealthy elite, a king sitting on a throne or CEO sitting behind an oak desk. You can go back far enough in the anthropological record and arrive a time when everyone was a member of labor. Labor is the natural state and intrinsic to the creation of value and prosperity, and in the modern age, wealth. To boil it down to simplest terms, the bean counters are useless without the beans, meaning management is superfluous without labor.

Imagine a world in which everyone must work and create with their own hands whatever they are going to sell to make a living for themselves. There is mechanical limit to how much wealth the people of such a world can create, because there is only so many hours in the day. No one by themselves can become a millionaire, let alone multi billionaire because there are not enough hours in the day. Wealth does not exist without feudal slavery, but then neither does poverty. The only way you have great wealth is when a class of elites rule, abuse and deprive a class of laborers; wealth requires a feudal master class supported by a feudal slave class. The wealth of the few is predicated on the poverty of the many; therefore wealth is not the product of superior intellect but inferior morality It is a product of the feudal structure structure itself,; it is the product of a feudal society divided in two as opposed to a unified tribal culture that shares in fellowship.

It is worth mentioning the social sharing is an evolved niche, social animals than work together and share are more evolved that the animals that work alone for their interests, therefore, for social beings, tribalism is natural, feudalism is not, therefore capitalism and communism are both less evolved and the source of all trouble in the world This is what happened at the fall in genesis. The forbidden fruit is the fruit of other people's labor.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:27:42 2015 No.6254265

>>6254125

PART ONE Tribalism, a unified society is preferable since a single fate cannot strive against itself. When you have tow separate classes in one society they fight each other, the prosperity of one diminishes the other. That is why their has been a history struggle between kings and peasant throughout history, and between management and labor in modern society.

Communism and capitalism are alike in that in both systems the worker is deprived of the natural fruits of their natural labors. In communism wealth goes to the state and spent as the government elites who control it and use it as they see fit, and in capitalism it goes to private elites who control it and spend it and use it as they see fit. In both cases, the laborer, who creates all things of intrinsic value, are disposed of the wealth they created. Ask any behaviorist what happens to any animal that does not receive its proper reward for it invested labor.

The Dogon of Africa have a creation myth that says the birth of the Nummo twins brought all trouble and war into the world; the twins fates of the ruler and the ruled, is the twin fates that must constantly combat for resources. Until labor is gets at the very least 50 or 60 percent of the wealth they create there will be continual problems with strike, unrest, and the rebellion that cause civil society to deteriorate.

There is just no logical argument that all the people sitting on their ass behind a desk, or distant investors that expect millions on dividend payments are as important to the process of creating value as the labor. Nothing is more important than the people doing all the real work of creating value.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:30:09 2015 No.6254276 File: 33 KB, 768x576, illumanit ayy lmao.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242124

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:32:54 2015 No.6254282 File: 38 KB, 610x383, 1413262874359.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6243822 >The anarchist idea is not a violent revolution, but a moral one Literally utopian idealism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:33:46 2015 No.6254287 >>6254125 sorry about the typos. does that make sense? what do you think?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:38:29 2015 No.6254297 File: 82 KB, 400x300, revisionists everywhere.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6242141

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:38:56 2015 No.6254301

>>6254125
socialism, capitalism and communism do not address the real problem, the structure of society that allows a few, whether they be the state or private interests , to control wealth and thus power. the immoral feudal automatons in power will always serve their own interests, and now rok for the good of all the people

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:40:13 2015 No.6254305 File: 54 KB, 604x392, workers of the world, lets ride.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6253976 I agree, comrade.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:44:05 2015 No.6254314

>>6254125
It also worth mentioning that all religion and myth are a metaphor for this, for the structure of society. the serpent that entered the tribal garden in genesis is feudalism, and the feudal economic system called capitalism is the Midgard serpent in Norse mythology; capitalism is a great evil wrapping itself around the world.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:47:17 2015 No.6254328

>>6254314
I would might take your argument more seriously if you weren't so focused on the shit-tier mythology of some dumb African tribe, as it is it's clear you're just another edgy liberal who fetishes brown skin and thinks history revolves around white people and how they treat the darkies.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:54:52 2015 No.6254353

>>6254328
the argument is not based on the myths, or religion. it stands on its own. all myth the examples of myth and religion does it proves that this problems has been going on for a long time, in other words, myth and religion is telling this same story through symbolism and myth, probably because the truth was outlawed in the dim past by kings. So instead of saying the peasant and labor class support the wealth that rule, the poet, in an attempt to send a message though time must say, Atlas support the heavens. I'm endorsing religion, or saying I believe in magic gods; I'm not a Christian. I'm just saying this is the underlying meaning of religion and myth.

I am more incline to believe an advanced civilization visited earth and brought feudalism here than I am to believe in magic gods with unlimited power

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 14:56:09 2015 No.6254358 >>6254353 sorry, I meant, i'm NOT endorsing religion

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:04:59 2015 No.6254387

>>6254353
And the shit-tier regions do exist, can't argue-- but if this helps explain the true underlying meaning of them by reducing the mysticism around them, then so much the better. this is a logical explanation of why they exist, what the stories really mean. if anything this logical sociological explanation of the supernatural aspect reveals myth and religion as nothing more than a mere history told with symbolism.

Anonymous Wed Mar 11 15:11:52 2015 No.6254413

>>6254328
but I do not see how darkies figure into it. the peasant of western Europe were white. when I say slavery, I mean the class of labor that support the elite. i'm not talking about the slavery that existed in American or any other place. and the Dogon tribe are not dumb at all; in fact they have an oral tradit0n that stretches further back than most written histories of Europe and Asia combined.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 11 20:16:17 2015 No.6255556 >>6254096 Well what >>6254088 says is that he doesn't believe in such a thing called "being a Class Traitor" and that you're very likely one of those "rich college kids" yourself.

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/lit/ - Literature