/lit/ Zine, 4th edition!

File: 311 KB, 1240x1748, zwgcover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

/lit/ Zine, 4th edition! Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 01:19:10 2010 No.623425 [Reply] [Original]

Sorry for the late release! Actually, we still aren't quite done with it, but if you would like to download an early copy of ZWG issue 4, you may do so here: http://zwg.wildwestwaffles.com/ZWG_-_Issue.4.pdf This early copy is missing a few things we were planning to incorporate. We will be releasing a fully-finished issue 4 on May 4. Please use this thread for criticism and feedback for the various stories and poems contained inside.

>>	Stagolee !0Pey/QLK3E Mon May 3 01:21:10 2010 No.623427 WHY SO LATE HUH?

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 01:21:10 2010 No.623432 Yup, It's all yours folks I trust you'll all take great pleasure in ripping the new edition into tiny pieces. have fun :p

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 01:21:10 2010 No.623433 >>623427 We ran into a lot of last-minute problems with formatting.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:23:10 2010 No.623439 File: 60 KB, 322x322, wtf_genie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] what is this I don't even

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:24:10 2010 No.623444 >>623425 alright, downloading nao I expect sheer madness

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 01:25:10 2010 No.623447 >>623444 This edition is significantly more graphic-intensive than previous versions.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:26:10 2010 No.623448 >>623447 >implying the goddamn batman oh noes

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:27:10 2010 No.623456 why release an incomplete early version? just wait till tomorrow..

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:29:10 2010 No.623460 >>623456 Because editors

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 01:31:10 2010 No.623464 >>623456 >incomplete Nope, it's not missing anything vital. We just wanted to get it released within the time limit we gave

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:32:10 2010 No.623469 44.4 megabites First time reader, so I can't give great criticisms or praise. However, I do appreciate the interspersing of text and graphics. Have you guys thought about interspersing the fiction, poetry and non-fiction. I dunno just a thought.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:33:10 2010 No.623471 >>623424 háRry +Òm +HóMà$ PatrI<K :// Áye TEà . KAy INTErñe+ MMÒrpg m3g@ OtheR ÁN+5 . $3@ eáT /

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:33:10 2010 No.623473 >>623471 what the fuck is this

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:34:10 2010 No.623475 >>623469 They had individual genre headings to start with. They thought about mixing it up and everyone hated that. They've moved to a fiction/poetry/prose format, which works. Leave it be. Also? This shit looks really good.

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 01:34:10 2010 No.623476 hmm, we already have it divided up into Fiction, Non-fiction, and Poetry Categories if that's what you ask

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:35:10 2010 No.623479 >>623476 not division, integration. For me, I'm not advocating either way -- but it might be interesting layout wise.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:35:10 2010 No.623480 >>623473 Kimmo's killer krew.

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 01:36:10 2010 No.623482 File: 23 KB, 480x360, proleface1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>623473 no doubt some archaic manuscript inscribed in chalk extolling the splendor and improvements to be found within the 4th edition zine. what else?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:36:10 2010 No.623483 >>623479 Nevermind I suck cocks -- forget suggestion.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:36:10 2010 No.623484 fuck this file is huge.

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 01:38:10 2010 No.623488 >>623484 it's the .jpgs, they take up tons of space

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:40:10 2010 No.623496 The new layouts look great, the page number headers with "/lit/erature digest" fuck it up though. You don't need either of those, we know what it's called and PDFs show the page number.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:41:10 2010 No.623498 >Josef K story >Blood on the Tracks pt2 FUCK YEA.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:41:10 2010 No.623500 >>623496 yeah, that was a question. We though we'd get more complaints if we didn't add that, but we can alter that in the revision

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:41:10 2010 No.623501 >>623496 Agreed. Really jarring and adds nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:41:10 2010 No.623503 Why would anybody use Josef K in their own story

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:42:10 2010 No.623505 i lol'd at "Kurosawa is to the camera what Mozart was to the Opera." this would make sense if kurosawa designed fucking amazing cameras but he didn't do that

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:43:10 2010 No.623506 The paragraphs in the introduction have different sized indents lol

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:44:10 2010 No.623507 >>623505 Calling it now, Review of Seven Samurai for worst submission. And then I saw 'my glass of water'

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:45:10 2010 No.623508 >>623496 Some people will be printing this out to read (especially now that the thing is x-box huge).

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:46:10 2010 No.623511 >>623505 Agreed. I love Kurosawa, but that is some really shitty phrasing.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:49:10 2010 No.623517 >>623503 why wouldn't they?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:50:10 2010 No.623522 PENULTIMATE

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:55:10 2010 No.623531 >>623522 PENULTIMATE

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:55:10 2010 No.623535 >>623508 In color? Doubt it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:58:10 2010 No.623547 >>623503 It's the authors pen name, not "the trial" fan fiction.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 01:59:10 2010 No.623551 >>623547 I lol'd. Nothing to do with Kafka

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:02:10 2010 No.623557 Page 59. There's a page of Blood on the Tracks in the middle of The Dreamer. What the fuck's going on here?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:03:10 2010 No.623560 One day my Ice Cube story will knock all your socks off.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:04:10 2010 No.623566 >>623557 Maybe that'll be fixed tomorrow.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:05:10 2010 No.623569 >Lupe Lamia >Lupus Lamia which is it exactly

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:05:10 2010 No.623572 The first story is bullshit, but the second and third are damn good.

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 02:07:10 2010 No.623581 >>623557 ohshi- sigh I hate open office. It's all just a dream, you did not see that....

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:10:10 2010 No.623593 Halfway through "fiction". Considering making a tier list/my brief thoughts on each when I'm done. Good idea?

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:11:10 2010 No.623596

Aesthetically, this is pretty fucking ugly, and that's being nice. Whoever did the final design(s) needs to be kicked in the head. Repeatedly.

Appreciate the time and effort put into formatting and other visual aspects of the 'zine but it was time and effort used very poorly..

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:11:10 2010 No.623597 >>623593 >>623557 Man, you guys are fast readers.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:11:10 2010 No.623598 >>623593 yes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:12:10 2010 No.623602 >>623596 You shut your whore mouth, the styling is great. Really helped a couple of the stories, not keen on the columns or the white on black but this is a fuck of a lot better than before.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:12:10 2010 No.623603 >>623593 great idea

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 02:16:10 2010 No.623610

>>623596
I would like more thoughts on this. Do you guys like the new look? Because I'll be honest, it is a major pain getting it done, and is the only reason that we are releasing late/haven't finished yet.

Do you guys like the more graphic, 'magazine', look or do you think that a plain text design would look just as good?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:16:10 2010 No.623612 >>623602 >/lit/ >the height is sophistication

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 02:18:10 2010 No.623626 >>623610 +1 I personally redid all 50 .jpgs several times over just to get it right. and it still needs work. Prole is whining

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:18:10 2010 No.623627

>>623610
I think the graphic magazine look is brilliant. But I also think you guys shouldn't be working incredibly hard to put it out. I dunno man, save it for "best of" specials or particularly good stories? Have an overall style for each zine that you can apply to all stories?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:19:10 2010 No.623637 >>623610 This looks much better than plain text. Much, much better.

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:20:10 2010 No.623641

>>623602

I'm not comparing this issue to any previous one; I haven't seen the others. I'm just judging /this/ one. It's a young and fan-run online 'zine. I get that, and I'm giving it slack accordingly. That still doesn't detract from what a goddamn disaster it is aesthetically.

>>	Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 02:20:10 2010 No.623644 >>623626 You go to sleep

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:22:10 2010 No.623656 >>623610 Anything is better than just blank plain text but you shouldn't be killing yourselves to make it look neat.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:22:10 2010 No.623659 File: 24 KB, 247x272, evil_baby_close.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>623644 done. I've been needing someone to tell me that

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:23:10 2010 No.623667 >>623641 The contrast between the formatted ones and the unformatted ones is jarring but apart from the page number bar I think the individual stories look great.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:24:10 2010 No.623672 I counted two Dylan references and one to... TF2? Really?

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:26:10 2010 No.623681

TIER LIST - FICTION ROUNDUP

TOP TIER
Blood on the Tracks, part II
Before
- Don't really need to say more about Jeremy Levett and Josef K, always these two fuckers at the top and for good reason.
Warm - made me shiver.

HIGH TIER
Tombstone Blues, part II - hope there's going to be a part III, this has promise.
Preserve, part II - this can't be where it ends, can it? You guys need to give us more information about serials, I have no idea

when things are going to end and the LOLSOOPENENDEDXD style of short fiction here doesn't help much. Apart from that, this was

really damn good and the styling was gorgeous.
I Have No Socks - kinda clunky writing but saved by being hilarious.
Path to Heaven/A Tale of Two - the formatting really made this stand out. Definitely continue this in a serial.
The Dreamer - I really want part II, this was good, only a few flaws keeping it out of top tier.

GOOD TIER
Cain - overly pretentious, but very good.
Bridge - reads like an anecdote, clever anyway.
What Went Unsaid - a vivid mess of thoughts and description, apparently intentionally.
Shutterbug - creepy and horrible and weird and good.
The Buzz - could have used more polish, but good, consistently strange.

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:27:10 2010 No.623684

>>623681
MEH TIER
Like A Disease - I didn't really get the point of this, what's special about Friday? Decent writing, wasted.
A Tale from Old America - whatthefuckamireading.gif. Was this seriously your headline act?
Dogs of the Sky - like a checklist of shitty sci fi cliches, reads like a teenager with a thesaurus wrote it. Protip: cut back on the double adjectives, for christ's sake. The random sex scene was terrible.
Haley - Competently written, worth a look at, but pointless and cut off before anything happened.
Wat - wat. Generic space opera trash, badly written.
Sunday's Discovery - Amateurish and bloated.
The Tea House - Like The Last Samurai, except written in epistolary format by a retard.

SHIT TIER
My Glass of Water - No really what the fuck
Good Friday - LOLSOBLASPHEMUSLOL

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 02:29:10 2010 No.623691

I really liked the idea of coming up with a general graphic design style for the whole thing. It would relieve a good bit of the load, and we wouldn't have the sharp contrast between graphically designed stories and plaintext.

Perhaps what we will do is have a general style for the whole issue, and for the ones we can manage we will have a custom design done.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:30:10 2010 No.623694 >>623684 >Like The Last Samurai, except written in epistolary format by a retard. lol'd.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:30:10 2010 No.623698 >>623681 >>623684 ...did I miss anything?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:35:10 2010 No.623715 Is there any reason why we have to download something that's 40mb? Could we look into a text only version? My internet's a piece of shit, even for Australian standards, but this is crazy town.

Anonymous Mon May 3 02:36:10 2010 No.623717

Really liked Path to Heaven. I thought Before was well written, though I've seen the concept before and honestly I'm getting pretty sick of Zombies. Those two are the stand outs for me.

Also, agree on the general theme idea. Less work for you guys and makes it prettier for us. I'm not fond of the columns, either. lots of scrolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:38:10 2010 No.623728 >I really liked the idea of coming up with a general graphic design style for the whole thing. yes yes yes this.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:40:10 2010 No.623737 General graphic theme for the entire zine would be great. Change it for each issue so it doesn't get stale, though.

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 02:41:10 2010 No.623745

>>623715
We were planning to release a text version alongside, but time issues didn't permit this time (finals). We will release a text version in the future. Heard about the situation Aussies are in.
No comments on lack of text justification? Unexpected

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:42:10 2010 No.623749 >>623745 Well now you've gone and completely fucked it, haven't you?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:49:10 2010 No.623776 File: 45 KB, 458x319, FishCops_suuuuure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>623503

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:57:10 2010 No.623785 >>623698 WITNESS TO THE DAWN 16-page epic, fool

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 02:58:10 2010 No.623791 I'm pretty new to /lit/ in general, OP do you have links to the other issues? Also what times of the month do you usually make the magazine available?

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 03:00:05 2010 No.623796 [DELETED]

>>623785
Just would like to point out that it is actually part of a 54 page epic poem, and that it is in my top two favorites this time around. If you would like to read the rest of it ahead of time, I believe Adam has it on his website - look in the table of contents, it is listed there.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:01:10 2010 No.623797 >>623791 http://zwg.wildwestwaffles.com/ twice every month on the last day/first day and then the middle day

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:03:10 2010 No.623799 >>623785 >FICTION

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:09:10 2010 No.623815 Let us know when you get a text only version up, my internet sucks and I'm not dealing with that xbox hueg download right now

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:11:10 2010 No.623819 >>623797 Thank you!

Anonymous Mon May 3 03:16:10 2010 No.623830

>>623745
There are major typographical and design errors in this edition, which you have been remonstrated about in the past. Ragged right for prose and non-fiction is one sin you revel in like a hog in its own shit.

However, for the first time, there are excellent typographical and design features.

You're improving over all. I have notes for a full design review which I will post later.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:20:10 2010 No.623842 You know /lit/ reminds me a lot of /tg/ or /a/'s Katawa Shoujo, we both like huge projects like this, which is rare especially on the various *chans. I-I'm proud of you people.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:22:10 2010 No.623844 File: 77 KB, 231x256, KS_painting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>623842

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:30:10 2010 No.623862 Wow, it's weird how this late release thread has barely any sages or general zine hate posts.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:31:10 2010 No.623865 >>623862 The haters were holding their breath so long they passed out. Or, you know, this zine actually looks really fucking good and is worth the wait.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:34:10 2010 No.623872 >>623865 No, I think it's just because the Americans are asleep

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:35:10 2010 No.623875 >>623872 It's only midnight on the west coast. Is this the official release thread or what?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:37:10 2010 No.623879 >>623872 Might be. Who the hell is actually here reading, then? Britfag here, but an early riser.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:38:10 2010 No.623885 Tomorrow's a school day.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 03:42:10 2010 No.623892 >>623879 ausfag checked at work

Anonymous Mon May 3 04:03:10 2010 No.623957

POETRY TIER LIST
Low grade publishable tier
Mason, "The Men Who Worship Trash"
Mason, "Untitled"

Juvenalia of a real poet tier
Mason, "The Path"

Epigram tier
Mason, "The Family"

Adolescent epigram tier
Joe Brown, "I know when I really love a girl"

Self-indulgent Zine tier
M.R., "Just like you"
W.R. Hayden, "The Twelve Bars of The Blues"

Why the fuck did you publish this tier?
The New Akkadian Aubade, "Witness to the Dawn" (yes, I did read it in full, including the footnotes, I counsel you against reading it)

Anonymous Mon May 3 04:25:10 2010 No.624001

Design Critique
No blank inner cover page, this fucks double siding.

Cover: "Featuring" is a shit font, everything else is clean and pristine in the snow

TOC: Shit. LHS RHS margins okay. Why double space and micro print the TOC?

3: Shifting first line indents in paras. You don't indent *and* line gap space paras. Pages aren't left/right headered and margined. Page number incorrectly spaced (way too far in).
4: Good art. Good quote.
5: Column margin insufficient. Pull quote fonts and spacing good. Bleed good except for top margin.

5 onwards: DO NOT USE RAGGED RIGHT FOR PROSE. Justify. If your publishing system produces shit justification, get a better publishing system.
7: Good title, don't bounce the art, keep images in one position. Good art. Horrible text. Text runs off RHS edge "Alone excep"
10: Great art. Spread page... if you'd included page 2 as a blank inner cover you morons.
11-15: You know toner is carcinogenic and expensive? You have read the readability studies of white on black for body? White on 60% or Black on 30%?

Anonymous Mon May 3 04:30:10 2010 No.624018

>>624001
Design Critique 2
11-15: The pull quotes are unreadable, attempt printing colour as grey in future before release.
16: Well formatted title & by line. RHS margin intolerably large compared to the rest of style. This is made worse by Ragged Right. Ragged first line indenting
18: More white space between quote and first para required. Quote shouldn't have been double spaced.
20: Poorly formatted title. Great inter section lines, but the one on 22 and 25 are inadequately top spaced.
27: well formatted title.
27-30: Why the fuck is this triple spaced?
30: Good tight lay on title
32: Why did you half space paras given it ran the page anyway? This is why you shouldn't use indents, and should just use spacing breaks so you can control the flow length of items.
33, 34: Well spaced between end of last and title of next
34: White space for clip art?
35-41: Fucking brilliant lay, art, fonts. Learn to justify and increase column margin spacing and you're home.
42-49: Great art, lay, pulls, fonts

Anonymous Mon May 3 04:35:10 2010 No.624029

>>624018
Design Critique 3
50: Why did you suddenly vary the font for the byline? Font is too bold, poorly centred in relation to title.
51: Byline in wrong font
53: Byline in wrong font
53-55: Triple spacing?
56: Great art
57-60: Toner, cancer, readability. Good pulls, bad first line colour, really fucking bad, completely unreadable when printed grey. Why the fuck did you switch back and forth between Rockwell and TNR?
61: Byline has too little space from title
62: Why is title internally double spaced?
67: Great art & font.
68-69: great pull quotes, bad column margin
72-75: triple spacing?
76: Great art

Anonymous Mon May 3 04:43:10 2010 No.624042

>>624029
Design Critique 4:
77-8: COPY VIOS
77: 3d effect, no 3d effect, ital serif over black by line backing: this isn't the early 1990s.
78: Toner, eyes, cancer. Variety colour eats balls on grey print
79: Great art
80: Great lay & font, shame about the poem.
81: Great lay & art
82: Well laid out for a shitty aesthetic from 1985.
83: Great fonts, great lay
84,85: Great laid poem, you got the centring right that we bitched about
86-101: Not your fault, the poet's a cunt and this is obviously a bitmap of their own copy that you were forced to use :(. I can tell from the pixels, and from having seen quite a few bitmaps in my time.
102: Great lay, you got poem lay right.

Oh yeah, and don't use underline for an internet address (Zinewritersguild@gmail.com , irc.freenode.net).

103: Its not CCBYNCND, you've copyvio'd Kurosawa or his photographer. Seven Samurai is 1954. This is not quotation, it is illustration or art. Seven Samurai becomes usable in this way in 1998+50 at a minimum. Does it look like 2048 outside? I don't see any hovercars or credit card operated robo whores.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 05:04:10 2010 No.624067 >Seven Samurai is often considered the penultimate work of Akira Kurosawa... But it's nowhere near his second-last film.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 05:10:10 2010 No.624076 I'm starting to wonder if Seven Samurai review is just a really good troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 05:12:10 2010 No.624081 >>624076 A really good troll would troll harder and subtler and be written with flair.

PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:02:10 2010 No.624126
File: 2.58 MB, 2480x3508, ZWGIssue46.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Designer here, I designed all the pages that look like this and the Fiction, Non-Fiction, and Poetry covers.

What did you guys think? I'm actually in favour of reducing the amount of stories, so we can give the magazine a better look

PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:07:10 2010 No.624130
File: 878 KB, 2480x3508, Preserve.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>624126
I think I did 43 pages total. It took me a couple of days (I think if I really worked hard on it for a couple of hours a day I could finish it within 5 days, but it really depends if I'm in the mood for it or not).

I had to design a lot of stuff, tried to keep it as simple as possible, also wondering what you guys think of it

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:09:10 2010 No.624132

>>624126

You can't remove content just so you can be arty farty. I'm head of design at a printed magazine, and if you tried that I'd fucking sack you.

If it's text heavy then you need to redesign your entire theme. Use minimalism and bold placement to turn walls of text into works of art. Pull quotes can break up a page better than pictures too, and are much more versatile. Justify or force your text too, left aligned just looks ragged.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:10:10 2010 No.624135 >>624126 INCREASE COLUMN SPACING. JUSTIFY TEXT TO FLUSH LEFT FLUSH RIGHT.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:12:10 2010 No.624138 >>624126 Agreed with the last 2 posts. Also, good job. You need to develop your style a bit more still, but what you did is a massive improvement from what these guys had before, and is much more than I expected from anything coming from 4chan.

PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:16:10 2010 No.624141
File: 1.50 MB, 2480x3508, ZWGIssue414.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>624132
>You can't remove content just so you can be arty farty

They do the same thing with movies, you know, delete the unnecessary parts, make it so that the overall structure is a lot more comprehensive and the pacing is better. We're not cutting it, we would be saving it for the next issue.

>If it's text heavy then you need to redesign your entire theme. Use minimalism and bold placement to turn walls of text into works of art. Pull quotes can break up a page better than pictures too, and are much more versatile. Justify or force your text too, left aligned just looks ragged.

Could you perhaps show some examples? Makes it easier to explain

PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:22:10 2010 No.624143
File: 724 KB, 2480x3508, ZWGIssue48.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>624138
>>623957
>>624001
>>624018
>>624029
>>624042

I fucking love you man, looking it over now and I agree with a lot of the complaints you posted and the mistakes that I made. Definitely going to use that critique for the next issue, thanks a lot.

One question though, what does this mean: COPY VIOS
regarding the Seven Samurai review

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:27:10 2010 No.624148

>>624143
The images you used are not public domain, or used in a manner that justifies them as fair use. Given that the images are not directly discussed in the review, they aren't "quotations" used in review, they're merely illustrations of the articles contents. As illustrations of the content either Kurosawa, or if they were on set photography not owned by Kurosawa the photographer, should be paid / licensing this. Given that zWg's zine purports to be CCBYNCND it can't include works with a more restrictive licence, ie: fair use for review. The licence would need to be CCBYNCND excepting copyright works held by their owners used under fair use for review purposes only. Except the images used aren't for review purposes.

Your art needs to be freely useable, or you need to drop the whole "we're not transgressing your copyright" licence and just admit thievery like the rest of us :).

Thanks for enjoying the critique by the way. I value the improved work greatly over the last issue.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:27:10 2010 No.624149 >>624143 Copyright violations

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:29:10 2010 No.624150 File: 964 KB, 1200x1600, MuurWater.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>624148 Okay, forgot about that, I made all the other illustrations/photos myself, because of the exact reason you posted.

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:32:10 2010 No.624152

>>624150
as a cheat, see if you can't get the author to agree to (see image left). Thence you're *quoting* the image. For example you used the peasant samurai (see image left) and the distinctive 7 figure shots (see inset image). Thus they're raised in the review, thus the works are fair use under review as they're reasonable quotations directly speaking to points in the review :)

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:33:10 2010 No.624154 File: 546 KB, 1200x1600, AutoGlas.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>624152 Thanks :)

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:34:10 2010 No.624156

>>624150
Given the inherent difficulties in illustrating random fiction I felt quite a lot of your art was great and pertinent. With a stronger core document template zWg can use blow through artists, "Massive dieselpunk tanks on snow, 2" x 3" to sit top right on a LHS page" "Page width bottom max height 38mm end of story with a bunny in it"

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:36:10 2010 No.624158 >>624154 nice shot by the way. Menace and freedom, but leaving the menacing work makes for the worst menace, the shadow clings to the back of the hatchback.

PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:37:10 2010 No.624159
File: 1008 KB, 1141x1885, CashWords.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>624156
Yeah, we definitely need more artists to work on it. I really loved the art that was made for Warm, but it looks like it took quite a time to make it. I don't mind illustrations that look quite basic, as long as they don't look like crap.

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:38:10 2010 No.624161

>>624132
"Witness to the Dawn" took sixteen pages which could have been better used as white space. In a consecutive block. With page numbers at the top to indicate they were intentionally left blank.

I admire the editors for attempting to include epic poetry, even if this instance was so god damn awful that /tg/ ought to purge it with fire.

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:44:10 2010 No.624167 File: 137 KB, 1024x724, ZWGIssue47 (Large).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is also how the original pictures looked, they had no white border on the top.

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 06:48:10 2010 No.624170

>>624167
Yea, we honestly just weren't sure how to go about adding page numbers. Probably should have realized it wasn't worth it, especially since no one is going to be printing a full-color issue. When we release the full thing, we'll have the white bars taken out.

Maybe when we're all working on inDesign, it will be possible to do them with it looking so terrible.

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:49:10 2010 No.624171 >>624170 We'll see :), I'm actually pretty stoked for the next issue

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:50:10 2010 No.624172

>>624167
Full bleed means you need to run White on Black identity and page numbers. In general your identities are too close to your body matter. Also, as I said before, 60% is about as dark as you want to take it. Ever considered subtle halftoning / hatching instead of solids?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:51:10 2010 No.624173 Tripfaggotry's worse than usual today.

Anonymous Mon May 3 06:51:10 2010 No.624175

>>624170
Design critiquing guy here, I for one print it 2up 2sided on A4 wide. Page numbers were somewhat useful for me in bawling out design issues and checking your LHS RHS spread given it wasn't printing properly for double siding due to a missing page two ;)

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:54:10 2010 No.624178 >>624172 Yeah, I think the problem is that I exported them as RGB (because of JPG) instead of CMYK.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:54:10 2010 No.624180 American waking up. Why the fuck is three fourth of this thread on the fucking page layout?

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 06:55:10 2010 No.624181 File: 15 KB, 556x235, BOO.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>624173 That's just the way it goes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 06:57:10 2010 No.624183 >>624180 Because zWg went down the zine / magazine layout rather than the literary review layout road. Thus we want them to get that right. And get Flush left Flush right body text for prose and decent column inner margins.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 07:10:10 2010 No.624191 >>624183 Honestly. Who the fuck cares? This is /lit/, we don't need pretty pictures. And we could just do with the wiki, instead of the zine.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 07:12:10 2010 No.624193 >>623872 Oh man I totally called it. It is now 7am on the east coast of the US. Go to school, kiddies.

Anonymous Mon May 3 07:14:10 2010 No.624195

>>623957
>Low grade publishable tier
>Mason, "The Men Who Worship Trash"
>Mason, "Untitled"

Not even, I especially didn't like Mason, and half of the submissions were his (the fuck?). The language is trite and shallow, the flow is choppy, metaphors are flat, and there's nothing special about the poem that hasn't been done. His poetry might seem to be better juxtaposed with that awful Gilgamesh pretentious wankfest, but it's still horrible, even by /lit/ standards. Not publishable at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 07:16:10 2010 No.624197 >>624193 herp derp inb4 US UK trolling thread for 100 replies, which this will inevitably degenerate to nice job faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 07:17:10 2010 No.624200 Lit is a slow board folks. Got to give us haters time.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 07:35:10 2010 No.624213 >>624195 You don't know just how low the poetry market goes.

Anonymous Mon May 3 08:12:10 2010 No.624247

Hey ZWG, I like the idea behind what you're doing but I'm slightly dismayed by the execution thus far.

Why not concentrate more on content rather than design? This may mean the quality of the stories and articles is better which is ultimately what most people want.

Also a deadline is a deadline, never mind exams or whatever, just get it out there.

As you are releasing electronically it would make sense to have it available in a format friendly to e-Readers; such as epub.

Yours,
Anon.

Anonymous Mon May 3 08:20:10 2010 No.624252

>>624247
>Why not concentrate more on content rather than design? This may mean the quality of the stories and articles is better which is ultimately what most people want.
This, this, this. Fucking half these threads are wankfests over the illustrations by tripfags. And yet shit like that film review and the entire poetry section somehow gets in.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:41:10 2010 No.624275 >>624252 Why don't you submit better work?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:47:10 2010 No.624285 >>624275 Oh, come on, not this old humbug. "you can't criticise because YOU CAN'T DO BETTER"? give us a fucking break.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:50:10 2010 No.624293 Writefag here who never comes to /lit/ (sorry!)but i'm severely surprised that you guys could be organized enough to do something like a zine. Where do I sign up to contribute?

Anonymous Mon May 3 08:50:10 2010 No.624295

>>624285
No, I'm suggesting that editors can't do anything but solicit work, especially with the quality of editorial work available (ie: unpaid). Thus the only way to increase quality is by increasing the quality of submitted work.

The only thing the zWg editors *can* do is ensure the publication meets basic typographic and lay up standards.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:51:10 2010 No.624296 >>624293 go to the zwg wiki and read the submission requirements (barely any), then email the editors.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:51:10 2010 No.624297 >>624293 You just e-mail them stuff. They take everything. At least that's the way it was when they began, I haven't paid attention enough to know if that's how it still is.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 08:52:10 2010 No.624298 >>624296 Sounds good, thanks anon

Anonymous Mon May 3 09:28:10 2010 No.624343

A tale from old america - putting quotation marks at the beginning and the end of a text does not absolve the author from annoying writing.

Before - Zombie apocalypse and fanatics, meh. well written though.

Blood on the tracks - skipped after first sentence, feel no regret.

Bridge - dialogue. learn more about it.

Cain - best text on zoophiles i read so far.

Dogs of the sky - Space Pirates? Space Pirates! 'nuff said.

Good Friday - Deities having a conversation. Dealbreaker.

Haley - Bitches. They are fun until you actually meet one.

I Have No Socks - xkcd is funny because its short.

Like A Disease - Zombies encore. Je n'aime pas.

My Glass of Water - drugs. check them out.

A Tale of Two - Words fail to properly express my feelings. Just as you do fail to express feelings with words.

to the editors: the zine looks like those pp-presentations old folks make after they took a course. Get some general layout-concept and stick to it. In the end, its just words.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 09:33:10 2010 No.624354 Serious question: Why do the trolls write better than the zinefags. I mean, have you seen that dog sonnet?

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 09:38:10 2010 No.624361

>>623469
>>624252
>>624247
>>624275
>>624285

We aren't responsible for producing content. We only publish it. We also reject very little - generally we have to agree that there's just no point or merit in the story whatsoever. Given your complaints about some of the content so far, you might get an idea of how low the bar is set.

We never intended this to be an exclusive "magazine" where we only selected the premium content. This is more intended to be a means for anyone with a good creative spark to get something written down and out there for others to read and enjoy (or not).

We welcome any and all submissions.

Anonymous Mon May 3 09:46:10 2010 No.624385

>>623681
>>623681
>Preserve, part II - this can't be where it ends, can it? You guys need to give us more information about serials, I have no idea
Author of Preserve here. While It's nice to start my morning seeing that I "made it" into High Tier, can you elaborate on what you mean?

Anonymous Mon May 3 09:55:10 2010 No.624404

>>624385
nevermind, the line breaks made it look like the rest of your sentence were different thoughts
>when things are going to end and the LOLSOOPENENDEDXD style of short fiction here doesn't help much. Apart from that, this was really damn good and the styling was gorgeous.

>LOLSOOPENENDEDXD
what's open ended about it?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:02:10 2010 No.624421 ZWG needs to keep these editions simple as hell to prevent this sort of faggotry that stinks up every ZWG thread Seriously, a whole thread whining about presentation instead of talking about the content

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:05:10 2010 No.624425

>>624421
THIS. I mean why the fuck do we even need a zine? It's not like physical copies are going out, and no one cares how pretty the fucking pictures look. Just post all the stories on the fucking wiki, for fucks sake. The pretentiousness of it all is what gets anons.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:08:10 2010 No.624432 >>624425 Oh, hey, look, someone expressing the same reactions /lit/ had when Goldensox was first shoving it down our throats. This is what you faggots deserve.

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 10:08:10 2010 No.624433 >>624425 >THIS. I mean why the fuck do we even need a zine? Well, some people do love it. But I agree with the fact it would be best if we'd upload several of the stories on the wiki as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:08:10 2010 No.624434 >>624425 the zine is a good idea, because writers like to get feedback abouttheir work what we dont need is >HURR I DON LIKE THIS LAYOUT WHY ARE THE MARGINS SO FUXXED horseshit

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:10:10 2010 No.624440 maybe start the threads saying "All comments about the graphics and layout need to be emailed to xxx@hurr.durr"

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Mon May 3 10:13:10 2010 No.624448 >>624440 well, mail them to mister.monkeyman@gmail.com It's my email

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:13:10 2010 No.624449

>>624425
>>624433
Yes, no more zine. Just post the stories on the wiki. I mean, does it really HAVE to be in a pdf format?

You can still call it a zine or whatever, but this monthly by monthy release and inevitably ensuing shitstorm and circlejerking is getting dull.

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:15:10 2010 No.624458

>>624404
>>624385
Preserve Author again

I agree that comments about the layout and graphics need to sidelined, we have people saying all sorts of contradictory shit
>It's so ugly that someone needs to be kicked in the head repeatedly
>No it's waaayyyyy better this time
>i prefer plain text
>it came out good. too good if you ask me. do it over, and this time try not to embarass yourselves

I'm reading the first story right now and will post some critiquing. Fuck this shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:15:10 2010 No.624460 >>624449 >>624434 I like having it in pdf. Makes it feel more official. Besides, this way there's more publicity for the writers. If they just uploaded the stories to the wiki, no one would read them.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:17:10 2010 No.624462 >>624449 no because then some stories will get completely ignored the zine is a good idea, they just need to try to pre-empt a bitchfest about the layout

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:17:10 2010 No.624464 File: 623 KB, 1240x1755, hurriamaretard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>624434 because the magazine as published so far breaks basic rules of readability and has been like rubbing a cheese grater into your eyeballs you cretinous fuckhole.

>>	derp !DeRp5VnIiA Mon May 3 10:19:10 2010 No.624469 >>623681 >>624404 Just read Preserve not "open ended" at all and it was really good. redeemed some of the questions i had about the first half. i didnt realize the otherworldly elements would be so important so i thought they were slapped on

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:20:10 2010 No.624472 >>624464 damn nigga y u so mad u makin stuff up naw?

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:21:10 2010 No.624475

>>624460
>Makes it feel more official.
Having a pretty cover doesn't mean squat, except to look pretentious. This is /lit/. We do not care about looks. We are sophisticated men (basement dwellers) of words.
>Besides, this way there's more publicity for the writers.
4chan? Publicity? HAH. Because you'd totally include in your resume a low tier fanzine based from a website known for pedophilia and exploding vans.
>If they just uploaded the stories to the wiki, no one would read them
Not that many people read them already. And you could make it so that only a selected group of people can post stories, so there's still some sort of filtering process. There could also be weekly thread pointing out new stories. It would take out all the pretentiousness and drama of the zine, and people could finally focus on the fucking stories.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:22:10 2010 No.624477 >>624464 people like you are the cancer killing ZWG

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:23:10 2010 No.624479 >>624475 >anything that looks good is pretentious FFUUUUUCCKKK OOOOOOFFFFFFFF

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:23:10 2010 No.624481 >>624462 >no because then some stories will get completely ignored Again, the wiki could be moderated, and the zine cabal could have a thread on new stories every week. Heck, you could even order them by issues in the wiki!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:24:10 2010 No.624484 >>624479 >looking good You fuck off. We are men of words. Pretty images and visceral pleasures mean nothing to us. SOPHISTICATION.

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:24:10 2010 No.624489
File: 262 KB, 1240x1755, fuck you zWg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>624477
Two minutes in word after issue 3 did this. Generous white space is easy and inexpensive. Not using TNR is easy and inexpensive. Pressing "Justify" is not expensive.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:26:10 2010 No.624491 >>624484 >hurr i speek 4 /lit/

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:27:10 2010 No.624493 >>624484 In before Hedonismbot.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:33:10 2010 No.624510 >open ZWG again >see that the retards still haven't learned how to press ctrl+a ctrl+j again >close tab because it's unreadable..again

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:35:10 2010 No.624513 >>624484 CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE FUCKING STORIES NOW GOD DAMNIT

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:37:10 2010 No.624519 >>624491 >derp implying your opinion is representative of lit

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:39:10 2010 No.624524 >>624513 Well dispute the Poetry Tiers list then.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:39:10 2010 No.624527 >>624513 >150+ posts >80% about layout and pictures ON /LIT/ >10% complaining about why we don't need the zine >8% trolling >2% anything relevant HERP DERP, fucking zinefaggots.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:39:10 2010 No.624528 >A Tale form Old America couldn't even finish it. It's annoying and unreadable and I don't care about what is going on. also, first person narrative does not need quotes at the beginning of each paragraph.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:40:10 2010 No.624531 What happened to this thread? America woke up :/

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:41:10 2010 No.624535 >>624421 this

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:41:10 2010 No.624537 >>624524 Tier lists are garbage. one faggots opinion ZWG should post some rules in the OP next time like "DONT COMMENT ABOUT THE LAYOUT, SEND AN EMAIL TO X. READ ONE THING AND POST SOMETHING ABOUT IT" etc.

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:42:10 2010 No.624540

>>624524
GOOD TIER (could be published)
Haha, no.

MEH TIER
Nope. Nothing.

SHIT TIER
Mason

PRETENTIOUS SHIT TIER
Hayden
MR whatever

BELOW SHIT TIER
Gilgamesh wtf am I reading?

Seriously, half the poems were submitted by the same person, who really isn't that good of a writer to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:44:10 2010 No.624547 >>624531 What's always happened to zine threads. Full of trolling, drama, talking about how pretty or ugly the pictures are, and tier lists. GREAT WORK ZWG.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:45:10 2010 No.624555 EVERYONE ITT GO READ ONE THING AND COME BACK WITH A COMMENT ON IT

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:46:10 2010 No.624559 >>624547 >GREAT WORK ZWG ZWG just make the thing. It's anon who bitches about it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:46:10 2010 No.624562 >>624537 >implying that shitstorm over the layout isn't an intrinsic flaw of the zine Why can't we just have stories on the wiki? Why do I have to download this huge fucking zine?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:47:10 2010 No.624566 >>624562 see >>624559 No pictures. No layout. No zine. Just words. Final destination.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:47:10 2010 No.624567 >>624562 because then some stories will get completely ignored also, the zine will fill up too quickly

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:48:10 2010 No.624570 >>624555 Gilgamesh is the best poem ever, and heartily deserves to occupy sixteen pages. I am painting it onto my walls as we speak using vermilion paint most fine.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:48:10 2010 No.624571 >>624567 i mean the wiki

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:49:10 2010 No.624573 >>624571 "fill up"? What is it, a glass of water? This is the digital motherfucking age!

>>	derp Mon May 3 10:49:10 2010 No.624575 >>624571 The wiki could be moderated you know, with the ZWG still acting as a filter. And they could dump the links to new stories every week. People will still read the stories, no more bitching about the layout. Problem solved!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:49:10 2010 No.624576 >>624570 NO TROLLS OR COMMENTING ON YOUR OWN SHIT REAL CRITIQUE NOT IF IT'S GOOD OR BAD THIS IS HOW WE CAN HELP THE ACTUAL WRITERS AND NOT FUCK UP THREADS

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:49:10 2010 No.624577 >>624343 > A tale from old america - putting quotation marks at the beginning and the end of a text does not absolve the author from annoying writing. word, bro

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:50:10 2010 No.624579 >>624575 but what about the illustrations?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:50:10 2010 No.624581 >>624571 Wikis don't fill up. The problem is, however, that then it's just another shitty amateur fiction archive, of which the web has far too many. 4chan is the only unique selling point this thing has.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:51:10 2010 No.624585 >>624579 Go fuck yourself.

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:53:10 2010 No.624589

>>624581
>>624581
>just another shitty amateur fiction archive
Hold your fucking horses. Since when has ZWG NOT been one? I mean christ, did you read some of the crap they have on there? Having it with a pretty layout doesn't change the fact that most of the stories are badly written amateur attempts.
>4chan is the only unique selling point this thing has.
So? Associate the wiki with 4chan, problem solved.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:54:10 2010 No.624592 >>624562 I won't read something with continual posting, and I won't bother reading HTML formatted long text because the type is so fucking poor.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:55:10 2010 No.624594 >>624581 yes we need a simple layout for the pdf like this: >>624489 looks good and very readable Illustrations are nice, but not 100% necessary for EVERY ENTRY

Anonymous Mon May 3 10:56:10 2010 No.624596

>>624576
The writer ought to stick to fixed forms for about a year, and not attempt the epic poem. Their first epic attempt should be in a strongly enclosed form like a twined set of sonnets.

They need to discover meter, rhythm, assonance, rhyme, consonance, English's natural and most unnatural rhythm.

Then they should read Beowulf. Then they can write an epic again.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:57:10 2010 No.624603 >>624594 How about no pfd at all? I mean, what's the fucking point?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:57:10 2010 No.624605 >>624555 >>624555 >>624555 >>624555 >>624555 >>624576 >>624576 >>624576 >>624576 >>624576

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 10:59:10 2010 No.624612 >>624603 I think the PDF is the entire point of this, but your mileage may vary.

Anonymous Mon May 3 11:00:10 2010 No.624614

>>624603
helps keep all things in an issue format, which helps serialize longer works and have definite divisions in time with which to organize one's reading of the content
no one is going to read a whole wiki full of writing from guys on 4chan
plus it's nice having something that works Offline

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:02:10 2010 No.624618 EVERYONE ITT GO READ ONE THING AND COME BACK WITH A COMMENT ON IT NO TROLLS OR COMMENTING ON YOUR OWN SHIT REAL CRITIQUE, NOT IF IT'S "GOOD" OR "BAD" THIS IS HOW WE CAN HELP THE ACTUAL WRITERS AND NOT FUCK UP THREADS

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:03:10 2010 No.624622 >>624618 CAPSLOCK. YOU SEEM TO HAVE IT ON.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:05:10 2010 No.624629 >>624622 that's so people will read it and not just scroll past

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:16:10 2010 No.624648 >>624629 Exactly the same reason why we're debating the layout.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:25:10 2010 No.624668 >>624648 go read something in the zine and come back with a comment on it

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:27:10 2010 No.624671 >>624629 >>624648 Wow. Fucking owned.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:29:10 2010 No.624674 >>624671 >>624648 samefag why do you WANT to encourage threads full of bitching and whining???? go read something in the zine and come back with a comment on it

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:29:10 2010 No.624677 >>624671 ITT: easily impressed 14 year olds

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:39:10 2010 No.624692 >>624668 => >>624596

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:40:10 2010 No.624694 Justifited text. What happened.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 11:41:10 2010 No.624695 Author of Preserve again I'd still like to know why my story was criticized for being open ended when it wasn't is the ending not clear?

Anonymous Mon May 3 11:46:10 2010 No.624701

>>624343
I agree with a lot of this (you should read blood on the tracks), but...

>Zombie apocalypse and fanatics
While it's definitely about fanatics, the zombie element is pretty subdued. It's basically part of the scenery. I'm burnt out on zombies, but I liked the way this used them.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:11:10 2010 No.624731 >>624694 THIS. Splain, Lucy.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:12:10 2010 No.624732 >>624695 Dude probably misunderstood.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:30:20 2010 No.624754 >>624732 FUCK I KNOW WHAT IT IS NOW the line "Makes me sick" near the end supposed to be "Make me sick," like i originally wrote it

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:34:10 2010 No.624765 >>624540 I'm curious as to what qualifies as SHIT TIER versus PRETENTIOUS SHIT TIER.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:51:10 2010 No.624801 >>624765 Pretentious shit has a pus goatee.

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 12:56:10 2010 No.624820

>>624603
>>624612
>>624648
>>624629

This has been brought up before, and we've decided against using the wiki as the entire feature for publication. As many others have pointed out, it becomes a little too impersonal - almost more like a blog at that point. We don't want that, because that brings about a different kind of audience and different kind of reader.

The PDF is important to us because we want to give the authors something a bit more special and unique - something that has more of a style and interesting design than just a webpage. While we're very aware that webpages can have all kinds of interesting designs and pretty pictures, they also require a completely different set of skills - and that's just not a direction we're really interested in pursuing.

We plan to continue with a PDF version that will hopefully be printable into booklet form in the future. Our slow progression into relying on page layout programs (i.e. Adobe InDesign) instead of word processing should facilitate this move, but there's a lot of work to be done.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 12:59:10 2010 No.624824 >>624820 The fact that you improved design between Issues 3 and 4 has enticed me to write another piece for you. The fact you publish as a periodical pdf entices me to read it.

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 13:05:10 2010 No.624843 >>624824 Thank you for the feedback, and affirmation. I'll admit to a warm glow when I read things like that. I only hope we can do right for you authors with our effort as you do for our readers with your effort.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 13:26:10 2010 No.624891 >>623957 ah damnit, I know what you're missing: It's witness to the dawn, pt.1

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 13:50:10 2010 No.624939 >>624891 It's at the bottom...

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 14:28:10 2010 No.625040 >>624843 >>624820 if you Justify the text in Word or Adobe or whatever, I think it will cut down a lot on the layout whining faggotry. Most of us don't care either way, but the vocal butthurt minority ruin any potential of a good thread

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 14:31:10 2010 No.625050 Release a Text only version? Simples.

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 15:03:10 2010 No.625147 >>625050 We most definitely plan to do that in future editions, but it remains to be seen whether that's feasible for the current issue. A lot of our content is in image-only format.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:11:10 2010 No.625177 >>625147 The move to InDesign would fix that since all the text is pretty much copy pasted into the text boxes you create over the image.

Miley Cyrus !!4f9UdHn0As1 Mon May 3 15:18:10 2010 No.625192
File: 69 KB, 360x480, glare.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>625147
>>625050
I'll do the text only versions. Shit, no need for graphics at all. That way, ZWG staff won't bitch about images lining up right when they're editing, and the justifiedfags will be happy.

And yes, I am a justifiedfag. You would think that by Issue 4 this would have been solved.

Anonymous Mon May 3 15:19:10 2010 No.625199

Wtf is this shit? I applaud the effort to have a decent layout but at least keep it the same for the whole issue and not do it piece-meal.

And what the hell is with "Witness to the Dawn" being a screencap? The ZWG editors prove to be shittier with each issue.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:20:10 2010 No.625205 Your font on the front cover is really ugly You need a new graphic designer

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:23:10 2010 No.625212 >>625205 We lost contact with the guy who was doing covers for us before :c. Jake, if you're out there, we could use you. That being the case.. If anyone wants to send us a cover for issue four, we'd appreciate it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:24:10 2010 No.625214 Is all the text for this issue available on the Wiki? Shoving this all into Latex with a Memoir class would make a printable, perfect-looking PDF with about 10 minutes of work, and it wouldn't be 44 megabytes.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:26:10 2010 No.625218 >text unselectable for copy/paste >expecting critique

Anonymous Mon May 3 15:27:10 2010 No.625220

I like the new design, but this threw me off.

The last line of Before :"This is the end of history and the winter of gods creation..."

This seems to be the last line of teh story, but it's offset and in a different font and color, so it seems... detached somehow. I dunno.

Cool story though. I like the slow realization of what the narrator is up to. I like that it was a zombie story with no actual zombies in it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:28:10 2010 No.625222 >>625214 These people can't figure out the basics of Word, you expect them to use LaTeX?

>>	Miley Cyrus !!4f9UdHn0As1 Mon May 3 15:30:10 2010 No.625225 File: 34 KB, 290x417, miley-cyrus-b_0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>625222 They've been using Open Office, not Word.

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 15:31:10 2010 No.625228 >>625199 That's the format "Witness to the Dawn" was presented to us. There was no other way to keep the formatting.

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 15:33:10 2010 No.625239

>>625214
>>625218
These are indeed major complaints, and very valid. As we've explained earlier in the thread, we ended up combining a number of different formats from software and design programs that aren't necessarily easily translated. Due to timing problems, we ended up having to go with the simplest solution to get the end product that looked right - using images.

We're transitioning to relying on InDesign and other page layout tools as a more effective means of keeping formatting consistent.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:34:10 2010 No.625245 >>625228 Not true - there was a properly formatted .doc version. Don't try and pass your laziness off on the contributors.

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 15:38:10 2010 No.625257

>>625245
Then I am misinformed, and I'm sorry about that. The only versions that ever came to me were in image format, but it may have been done differently.

That being said, I imagine that in the process of trying to copy the document as it was written from MS Word to our production Open Office document, a lot of the formatting was screwed up. So as a result, just in order to fix it, turning it into an image was a stopgap measure.

As I said before, we're improving the methods for this sort of thing, so we hopefully won't have to have this conversation again.

Anonymous Mon May 3 15:40:10 2010 No.625261

You guys are taking this issue way to seriously. The editors are trying to do their best by making the zine different and interesting. There are going to be problems with it, that is why all the awesome criticism they are getting is helping. Think of this issue as more of a test run rather than a full blown release.

Anonymous Mon May 3 15:41:10 2010 No.625267

>>625245
There was a properly formatted .doc version, however we are working with .odf. We are also working with a different sized page than the .doc was sent to us. This means that it would be nearly impossible to preserve the format as the author sent to us (as per his request)
I do regret that image came out so blurry.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:42:10 2010 No.625272 File: 85 KB, 480x600, a4367_1243344974625.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>625257 >so we hopefully won't have to have this conversation again >fourth issue >same shitty problems

>>	Prole !XDERDXUpqQ Mon May 3 15:48:10 2010 No.625288 >>625245 wut no, I don't recall there was. It was a PDF last I looked

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:49:10 2010 No.625294 >>625267 there's no way you guys don't know that OO can handle .doc files, or how to fuck around with the ruler to change page sizes there's just... no way...

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:50:10 2010 No.625296 >>625294 These are the zine editors we're talking about. They are...not so bright, at the best of times.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:50:10 2010 No.625298 h T T p : // A T . K Í m M ò a . 5 E /

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:52:10 2010 No.625302 >>625294 we are being trolled

Anonymous Mon May 3 15:54:10 2010 No.625306

>>625296
yeah well last time I offered to edit, I got the whole "sorry we're full lulz" brush-off
This is Ferric Suarez, offering my services once again
If you let me participate, I'll forgive the UNREQUESTED AND UNINFORMED EDITING of one of the last lines of my story

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:55:10 2010 No.625308 >>625294 Hey Take that .doc and try to copy paste it to a .odf page See what happens.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 15:55:10 2010 No.625310 >>625306 >'ll forgive the UNREQUESTED AND UNINFORMED EDITING of one of the last lines of my story wut? they edited ur story? WTF ZWG?!1

>>	Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 16:01:10 2010 No.625316 >>625306 Which story, and what was the change?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:02:10 2010 No.625320 >>625272 They haven't used images in the zine up until this edition, so it's different this time around.

Lindlar !sZMOg20d0E Mon May 3 16:06:10 2010 No.625329

>>625306
1.) Sorry if something was changed without your consent. I've no idea if it was done intentionally or not.
2.) We've been needing help, and I don't know why we would 'brush you off'. We've had a several people offer their help, but only 2 have actually done any work (thank you Ian and Friday!) I'm looking through your emails, and never saw anything about asking to help. Could you email us about it, to confirm that it is actually you? We'll send you some stuff to edit next time around.

As far as editing the general look of the next issue, the best way to influence that is to hang in the irc channel. That is where we make most of the decisions regarding how stuff is done. You can harass us in real time about what we're doing wrong c:

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:10:10 2010 No.625335

>>623505
>Kurosawa was not a revolutionary artist like Mozart.
He utilized the telephoto lens to maximum effect, in the same way that Mozart used musical notes to their greatest effect.

Also, misused penultimate. Read: ultimate

Writer of Seven Samurai review. First attempt at reviewing, figured I'd give a shot. Apart from that one goddamn misuse of a word, any other issues? I'm curious.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:15:10 2010 No.625343

>>625335
It's not interesting to read a page full of, in effect, dick sucking. He was a great director, awesome. You don't need a page to tell me that.

Instead, try to focus on specific things that he did that were original, why they were original, why they were good.
"For example Kurosawa is to the camera what Mozart was to the Opera"
Ok, great, you managed to draw a parallel (if a tenuous one) between Kurosawa and Mozart. I don't fucking care.
WHY WAS HE TO THE CAMERA, WHAT MOZART WAS TO OPERA?

Your review is terrible because it is a page full of poorly support praise. You need specifics, examples, well explained reasoning, to make the claims you're making. THAT would actually be interesting to read. Your review as it stands is god-awful.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:25:10 2010 No.625357

Yeah, most of the time you just claim stuff without supporting it, so it doesn't work as criticism. And none of the stuff you emptily claim is even new or interesting - it's all just meaningless superlatives. If this was a film theory board I could reduce the homework threads by half. All I would have to do is take your review, cut out all the mentions of the film, leave blank spaces where appropriate, and circulate it as a quick and easy solution for when you haven't bothered to watch the material in question but need to emulate critical appreciation.

I'm sure your heart's in the right place, but switch on your brain.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:26:10 2010 No.625358

>>625343
>Poorly supported claims
>No evidence

1. Innovative use of the 3/7 focus
2. Panoramic cinematography of combat scenes
3. Delicate care was taken in shots with Mifune in them

Just to name 3 off the top of my head.

Whoops. Apparently no detail exists.
Also, U mad?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:28:10 2010 No.625363 >>625358 Okay, so those were a few things (although what does 'delicate care' even mean? Can you actually tell me what's going on with the camera or the performance?). Cool. They did not constitute the majority of the review.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:28:37 2010 No.625364 >>623423 H + + p : // à t . K ì M m o á . $ E /

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:30:10 2010 No.625365

>>625316
Sorry my internet crapped out

Preserve
>Make me sick
to
>Makes me sick
it was a big choice for the character to go down that path, to make that request
with the line changed, it looks like he is still undecided and gives the story the
>>623681 LOLSOOPENENDEDXD
feeling

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:30:10 2010 No.625367 >>625363 Seriously, I must have read what amounts to 'Kurosawa is great' about 30 times. You only need to tell us two times.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:31:10 2010 No.625368

I just want to say that this looks great! It looks and reads like an amateur magazine, and I love it because of this.

The moment this magazine starts to become slick and polished like the New Yorker or the magazine I work for is the day I lose all interest. Fuck beautiful typography! I read so much of it that the absence becomes striking.

Also, I now realize that I enjoy male writers more than female writers. I thought I hated poetry, but I only generally hate poetry written by women. Oh, what's that? Yet another poem about a relationship that's breaking down.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:33:10 2010 No.625374 >>625363 >Can you explain to me what scenes 1. Raising of the banner 2. Graveyard Scene Why? 1. The shots amplify emotional tension did you miss those?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:37:10 2010 No.625382 ITT: Kurosawa fanboys

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 16:39:10 2010 No.625386

>>625365
I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about the line:
"My hands let go and the bodies fell. 'Makes me sick,' I said."

That's supposed to say "Make me sick,' I said"?

Perhaps I don't quite understand the context, then, because I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:40:10 2010 No.625389 ITT: Roger Ebert with interest in 4chan. Both tend to make drool-worthy statements and don't back them up.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:40:10 2010 No.625390

>>625374
I think the problem is that you mentioned those in passing, without really explaining what you mean. It might seem obvious to you, as a person who is familiar with the movie and with film in general, but you need to be thinking from the perspective of the reader. You need go into more depth explaining the examples you used, otherwise it actually seems like your just using these fluffy examples, without really knowing what you're talking about.
You need to write like your readers are the biggest idiots in the world, otherwise you will probably not convey your ideas effectively.
Also, way too many comments along the lines of 'Kurosawa is great'. It got to the point of just sounding like praise after a while.

Nick_ZWG !Vw8I404DyQ Mon May 3 16:41:10 2010 No.625393

>>625386
Wait, never mind. I suddenly get it now.

You're right - that is in fact a mistake, and a misprint. I want to apologize strongly for that, because it does change things.

We'll try to make sure that no more unauthorized edits go in - we almost always try to email the authors for permission to change them before publishing, but it doesn't always work out. In this case, I made that change because I thought you made a grammatical error, and I was in a hurry. It was my fault.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:44:10 2010 No.625400 >>625393 >>625386 i'm probably just more butthurt about the >LOLSOOPENENDEDXD comment from whoever made that tier list but I will send you that email when I get home.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 16:48:10 2010 No.625404 >>625374 >the shots amplify emotional tension Yes, but HOW? This is not analytical.

Anonymous Mon May 3 16:59:10 2010 No.625430

>>625404
>analysis
Review =/= Analysis

The review never claimed to be analysis. To follow what a poster noted a few posts prior, Ebert does not *analyze* films, he watches them, passes judgement and gives a few examples.

But Ebert never got review cred outta nowhere. He wrote lengthy commrntaries for SF fanzines way before he started reviewing.

Consider writing commentaries, not reviews, because your review looks an awful lot like a commentary.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:22:10 2010 No.625490 Kurosawa always put the story first, and let the artistic flourish derive itself from that. Mozart was just a decadent little shit-head.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:25:10 2010 No.625500 >>623422 H t + p : // À T . K Ì M M ó à . s e /

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:28:10 2010 No.625508 Hey does anyone have any info on the second, better, avant-garde /lit/ zine? When are they releasing?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:39:10 2010 No.625564 >>625508 trolled hard

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:42:10 2010 No.625575 scanned it, hated it

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:47:10 2010 No.625593 >>625575 What didn't you like, and why? Help the people who submitted get better. Just do one story. Pick one and criticize.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:48:10 2010 No.625596 Woo! 4th edition. btw Mason here! thanks for all the comments! I'll have more shit coming your way

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 17:51:10 2010 No.625605 >>625490 Personality is no justification for berating genius.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:14:10 2010 No.625692 >>625575 >i scrolled through the whole file at over 9000 miles an hour with a preconceived notion of what to expect your opinion counts for precisely dick

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:17:10 2010 No.625712 >>625306 You sound like a prick, best you aren't on the team.

Darrin Mon May 3 18:19:10 2010 No.625721

So, has anyone read both parts 1 and 2 of Memories of Ukraine? Did it jive together well enough across the issues? I never really got any comments for or against on it. With the way it ended up getting split, all the emotional development was in part 1 and all the action was in part 2 lol

Anonymous Mon May 3 18:22:10 2010 No.625741

>>625593
>>625692

well i have a short attention span, and like that guy said, my opinion counts for dick because i didnt fully absorb everything in it. but i briefly concluded that it was pretentious and not particularly inciteful or engaging. i cant explain further than that.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:24:10 2010 No.625747 >>625741 >inciteful

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:33:10 2010 No.625792 >>625741 >scanned it >i have a short attention span >i didnt fully absorb everything in it >concluded that it was pretentious and not particularly inciteful or engaging

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:35:10 2010 No.625798 >>625712 what "team"?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:35:10 2010 No.625801 You are now noticing that the fiction is in alphabetical order manually

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:37:10 2010 No.625808 >>625747 >>625792 do either of you have a problem with me being functionally retarded becuase you can just come out with it instead of hiding behind greentext and faggotry

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:43:10 2010 No.625841 >>625808 I certainly have a problem with it. If you're gonna drop into a thread with "TL;DR, lol", then don't stick around and be butthurt when people rightfully call you out as having no attention span.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:51:10 2010 No.625887 >>625801 problem?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:51:10 2010 No.625890 >>625841 i admitted i have no attention span, i dont have a problem with that. its you who are freaking out about my stupid opinions you fucking nazi.

>>	Darrin Mon May 3 18:53:10 2010 No.625903 >>625721 I'm never going to get an answer on this.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:53:10 2010 No.625906 >>625890 Drama-sucking leech.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:55:10 2010 No.625916 >>625890 Also an example of Godwin's Law at play.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 18:56:10 2010 No.625923 >>625890 I'm not angry at you champ. I'm just confused as to why anyone would offer opinions they know to be stupid and implicitly uninformed, and then get mad when people rightfully give you shit for it. And make no mistake, you mad.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:01:10 2010 No.625938 >>625741 Define pretentious without going to an online dictionary. Go. I dare you. Go. Also >inciteful Unless you were clever enough to create a neologism expressly for trolling, which you aren't, then lol.

Anonymous Mon May 3 19:10:10 2010 No.625981

>>625923

the only thing that made me mad is the references to my hilarious mispelling of insightful as if it somehow voids my opinion.

also pretentious is when people believe they have ideas above their station when they dont/alluding to a deeper meaning that is non existant.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:12:10 2010 No.625989 >>625938 I triple dog dare you.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:13:10 2010 No.626001 >>625903 No. No, you're not.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:19:10 2010 No.626032 >>625981 What invalidates your opinion is your admission that you didn't read it. You sucking at spelling is merely the sweet frosting of continued failure.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:19:10 2010 No.626033 So I'm kind of confused. Do you take stories from /lit/erati, or from actual published authors?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:23:10 2010 No.626048 >>626032 i started reading all of them and they all bored the shit out of me so i gave up.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:25:10 2010 No.626059 >>626048 Don't lie.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:31:10 2010 No.626080 >>625989 just shit myself laughing

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:31:10 2010 No.626084 >>626033 local /lit/erati. Not published authors.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:33:10 2010 No.626090 >>626059 your trolling is bland and uninspiring

Anonymous Mon May 3 19:40:10 2010 No.626128

>>626090
I'm not trolling. You know you didn't read it, and yet you offered opinion. I'm just stating that your opinion is invalid.

If you seriously want to contribute pick one story and tell us why its pretentious. Pick a short one if your ADD is so crippling. Do "Before". It's short and it has zombies.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:41:10 2010 No.626140 >>626084 lol like anything in it could be published.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:42:10 2010 No.626147 We're on Auto-Sage here. Suggest not starting a new thread until the real version is out.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:43:10 2010 No.626153 >>626128 i'm compiling my own zine right now so i dont have time

>>	Miley Cyrus !!4f9UdHn0As1 Mon May 3 19:47:10 2010 No.626178 I'm serious about the text-version only. I'll edit it if the ZWG staff wants me to.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:47:10 2010 No.626180 >>626153 Again with the lying and trolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:51:10 2010 No.626205 >>626180 i'm 100% serious, how would you knowing that result in me having trolled you?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:52:10 2010 No.626209 >>626205 yawn.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 19:59:10 2010 No.626256 >>626205 What's your zine called? Huh? HUH?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 3 23:15:10 2010 No.627287 >a tale from old america >mermaid sex?

Anonymous Tue May 4 00:12:52 2010 No.627623 [DELETED]

Author of Warm here. First off, how did I make it into someone's top tier? I don't understand. Second, I'd really appreciate any other criticism of my work. I was sad when I looked at the thread and only found layout bitching. Guess I should be used to it by now though.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 4 00:49:10 2010 No.627850 >>626178 Do it. The graphic version crashes my Itouch browser and I want to read this on the go.

>>	PosterParent !!JVEkaVAk0gQ Tue May 4 09:33:59 2010 No.628934 >>627850 Did you receive it? Otherwise I could make a beginning for you :3

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/lit/ - Literature