/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6177071]

Legit thinking about living the Cynic life. Is there any reason a woman can't do this? I keep getting told women have it to easy for them to ever be able to fully commit to this lifestyle, but Hipparchia did it

[Anonymous No.6177085]

>I keep getting told women have it to easy for them

you should be less on the internet

[Anonymous No.6177089]

>>6177085
Guys are often more honest on the internet *although dishonest as well), but yeah, point taken.

[Anonymous No.6177106]

>>6177071
>I keep getting told women have it to easy for them to ever be able to fully commit to this lifestyle
Why? I don't get it. Do people think that you just get offered things everywhere that you're unable to deny or something? I don't see why gender would play a part in a cynic's life. But then I don't know that much about the cynic lifestyle other than that it's sort of ascetic and ''natural'' etc.

[Anonymous No.6177110]

>>6177106
>Why? I don't get it. Do people think that you just get offered things everywhere that you're unable to deny or something?
Yeah, basically that I wouldn't commit, that I'd just end up as an on-again, off-again Cynic.

>But then I don't know that much about the cynic lifestyle other than that it's sort of ascetic and ''natural'' etc.
Cynicism is ascetic as a means of mitigating ideology.

[Anonymous No.6177115]

Spend less time on 4chan. That's the only asceticism you probably need. This whole place is based off of latent forces coping with their inferior social status.

[Anonymous No.6177127]

>>6177115
you're wrong, but unlike me you didn't go to Harvard, you don't earn 8000/month with a big car, a qt wife and bitches on the side. Your children will work for my children.

-john

[Anonymous No.6177130]

>259 replies and 68 images omitted

[Anonymous No.6177139]

GO HOME READER GIRL

[Anonymous No.6177142]

>>6177110
>Cynicism is ascetic as a means of mitigating ideology.
Oh, and I should add here that the "asceticism" of cynicism is nothing like that of religious asceticism, it's not about foregoing pleasures like drink and masturbation, but about forgoing the complex parts of our life that we end up beholden to more than they serve us.

[Anonymous No.6177188]

>>6177110
>>6177142
Hmm, that sounds like a completely unisex thing, people are chatting shit, OP. Go for it.

[Anonymous No.6177201]

>>6177188
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.6177221]

>>6177127
Telling lies on the internet is pretty uncool.

So is bragging.

[Anonymous No.6177427]

>>6177071
is your decision based primarily on ideological considerations or materialistic ones?

[Anonymous No.6177439]

>>6177071
>Hipparchia did it
She was probably ugly.

[Anonymous No.6177448]

GO ON HOME GIRL READERS
GO ON HOME
DO YOU GOT NO FOCKING HOBBIES OF YER OWN

UH AH UP THE (M)RA

[Anonymous No.6177477]

depends how hot you are

anything above a 6 and you are basically a rape magnet :(

that's if we're talking diogenes mode, tub lubbing hand-cup lifestyle though

[Anonymous No.6177482]

>>6177089
lrn hw 2 kybord

[Anonymous No.6177501]

>>6177448
Seriously, kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.6177514]

>>6177501
Britbong detected
Beidh ár lá linn

[Anonymous No.6177550]

>I keep getting told women have it to easy for them to ever be able to fully commit to this lifestyle

Depends where you're from.

Where I live, in Sweden, 8 out of 10 girls would totally fit that criteria, as they simply would in no way get in a situation where they can be cynic, as they simply have their social life and friends set for life, from an early age. Their cynisism would be, then, that of the patriarchy and opression, but that's just false and flashy and there is no meanimg behind it, really. Socially they have it good. They can go to a club and get a guy home and they know it. They will never have to worry about being alone, and thus, this comes with confidence, a rather disgusting confidence that is. Because in all truth, no matter how many books you read or how smart you really are, none of it amounts to shit if you don't have a decent social life. A social life and confidence is all you need in this life. Look at what the internet has become; it's these people who get the word, and whose opinions people take for granted, because just like back in high school, they have the most followers. :')

[Anonymous No.6177561]

>>6177439
Hipparchia was fine as fuck and rich too.

[Anonymous No.6177565]

>>6177071
How Cynic do you want to get? Living on the streets isn't easy, especially not for women.

[Anonymous No.6177583]

>>6177550
It really does depend on where you live. If you live in the West where there is gender equality, being a woman is relatively easy, you can achieve what you want with some effort.

In some other places it can be a living Hell to be a female, though. Which is why I find it ironic leftists complain so much about Western values and try to push moral relativism to justify other societies.

Pic related, the Mother's Index

>Among the world’s many social development indices is the 2013 Mothers’ Index recently published by the Save the Children charity. The index is a composite of five factors: maternal health (measured as lifetime risk of maternal death), children’s well-being (measured as under-5 mortality rate), and women’s educational, economic, and political status.

>The latter three components involve such criteria as “expected number of years of formal schooling”, “gross national income per capita”, and “participation of women in national governments” (specifically, the percentage of national legislative seats held by women). It is, however, questionable whether these measures are true reflections of the selected factors. Moreover, the data for the various components comes from different years, ranging from 2010 (maternal health) to 2013 (political status).

>The map I have made (see on the left) shows the ranking broken down into four equal tiers (44 countries in each; the similar way of presenting the data is used by the authors of the 2011 Index, which ranks slightly fewer countries). The overall pattern is the expected one: most industrialized countries in Europe and North America, as well as Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, and Japan cluster tightly at the top of the index; Russia and several of the former Soviet Republics, as well as China and most Latin American and Middle Eastern nations form the second tier; South Asia lags behind Southeast Asia and the Pacific; and the majority of sub-Saharan countries occupy the bottom of the ranking. As is expected, the top of the ranking is occupied by three Nordic countries: Finland, Sweden, and Norway; Iceland and Denmark are also among the top 6. The bottom of the list is likewise occupied by “the usual suspects”: Sierra Leone (174th), Somalia (175th), and Democratic Republic of Congo (176th).

http://languagesoftheworld.info/geography/best-country-mother-finland.html

[Anonymous No.6177665]

>drinking the Kool-Aid so hard you actually end up living like a monk

This is your brain on ideology, boy old Schoppy wasn't kidding when he said you can read yourself stupid.

[Anonymous No.6177701]

>>6177583
>Which is why I find it ironic leftists complain so much about Western values and try to push moral relativism to justify other societies.
That's always the liberal paradox: Trying to accept both women's rights and the cultures that don't accept women's rights. You can't be tolerant towards the intolerant if you want a tolerant society.

I wouldn't call them leftists though. Actual leftists have little patience for muh authentic traditional cultures that are just as good and must be respected.

[Anonymous No.6177811]

>>6177701
>china
>not non-western

[Anonymous No.6178167]

>>6177071

>looking at these fine-ass titties reminds you you will die an unloved virgin

[Anonymous No.6179869]

>>6177427
Personal psychological care.

[Anonymous No.6179877]

>>6177565
I have a nice little place where I know I can sleep and no one will bother me, it's not a house, so basically on the streets, yeah.

>>6177665
Cynics don't live like monks at all. Diogenes masturbated in public.

[Anonymous No.6179881]

>>6177665
Well obviously look at all of the fervent upper middle class commies here and their retarded bougeoise professors, advising each other on how to make 6 figures as a marxist academic.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6179899]

>>6179877
If finding affordable housing is that much of a burden... I suppose you could try a spin as a wanderer. Coming back if you at any time if you like. But living simply doesn't require being homeless.
I wouldn't do it, Epicurean as I am.

[Anonymous No.6179916]

>>6179899
I don't want to work, there is no such thing as affordable housing without a job.

My main beef with Epicureanism (as practiced today) is that comfort is largely a tool used to control people, it's like comfort and pain are the good cop vs. bad cop. I greatly appreciate comfort, but I feel like what I find comfortable isn't being defined by me in society, and I have to "clear the slate" in order rediscover comfort without gobbling it up like a drug.

[Anonymous No.6179920]

>>6179916
Rather more specifically comfort vs. stress are the good cop and bad cop.

[Anonymous No.6179939]

>>6179877
what country do you live in?

if its anything outside europe you're fucked

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6179954]

>>6179916
Society is geared towards the rich, so being comfortable in it makes me kind of guilty, but my comforts are my own.
It does suck that I have to work in order to appease these bastards, and that's the saddest part of my life. If I could do more I surely would. Nail me to a cross if that would fix the world.
Living on the street wont help of course. I've been there on two non-consecutive nights, Who knows, I may end up there again before retirement age.

Riding the rails had some kind of charm to it when I was younger, but these bones want a room and warm bed.

[Anonymous No.6179957]

>>6179939
Yeah, it's USA.

[Anonymous No.6179972]

>>6179954
I'm not really interested in doing it for political reasons, as in I don't feel "guilty" about comfort, rather I'm concerned that I'm a slave to comfort instead of comfort being something for me. Especially a slave to a market-constructed idea of comfort that relies on constant application of stress to the populace in order to sell. I think comfort is the contemporary bread and circuses, except unlike bread and circuses, it isn't simply to placate, the idea is to sell as much of it is possible and to turn people into puppies with shut eyes just sucking on the teat.

[Anonymous No.6179984]

>woman doesn't want to work

>look guys I'm just like Diogenes xD

All you have to do is find a guy to lay a few spawns for and you'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.6179999]

>>6179984
No. Even if I were independently wealthy and living on a trust fund, the underlying problem would still be there, which is that I'm stuck in ideological ping-pong between market-constructed comfort and stress. One mostly triumphing over the other wouldn't eliminate the issue, it would just turn me into a cow.

[Anonymous No.6180026]

>>6179999
Nice quints.
>ideological
Have you tried reading Stirner?
You might as well not play the game of life if concepts bear more importance to you than events directly related to your self-interest.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180038]

>>6179972
The second part of that is very political.

We need a certain amount of comforts. If you can squat in an abandoned building, salvage discarded clothes, shoes and food, masturbate in public and live that way for however long you want in as much comfort as you can see in it, enjoy. But to what end? Meh. I just don't think I'm a slave to comforts themselves. It's just a natural inclination. As this lifestyle may be for you. It's freedom, certainly, but at a cost.

>>6179984
Women are human beings, child. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6180043]

>>6177071
who is this?

[Anonymous No.6180071]

Didn't Cynic live in garbage?


What would be different about a cynic's life as opposed to how yours is now.

[Anonymous No.6180072]

>>6180026
Our "self-interest" is largely dictated to us. I want to abolishing enjoyment and just have pleasure (Lacan's terms). "Enjoyment" is surplus pleasure, that is pleasure beyond what is actually pleasurable for-itself, with surplus pleasure pursued because "pleasure is good". Like when you keep drinking Coke long after your thirst is satiated and your pleasure is fulfilled, you keep drinking for ideological pursuit of pleasure as "good".

[Anonymous No.6180081]

>>6177071

Your assumption is wrong.

The best philosophy is realizing the absurdity of life but embracing it and doing that which gives you the most liberty and exploratory potential. Which means working to end the state and capitalism by creating and perpetuating counter-economies, electing representatives to the state to give the working class more wealth and ability to own from the ruling class, and to do all the various rebellious activities that are strategic like direct action, protests, marches, etc.

[Anonymous No.6180084]

>>6180038
>Women are human beings

Haha.

[Anonymous No.6180085]

>>6180038
You are a slave to comfort or else you'd probably have a gf by now, you look good enough

>>6180071
I have a good and and an apartment and social obligations, and I'm going to start uni soon.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180093]

>>6180072
Just go Epicurean.

Have you seen Varda's Vagabond?

[Anonymous No.6180095]

>>6180081
>protests, marches and elections can end capitalism
This is silly, there have been many overtly socialist representatives elected, they have never created socialism

[Anonymous No.6180101]

>>6180085
"goods and a job"

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180108]

>>6180085
I am a meek perfectionist and lived with terrible anxiety in my youth. True I lay back in a simple comfort and all but give up on looking for a companion.. Why do you hide so?

[Anonymous No.6180114]

>Cynicism
Why not just be a Transcendentalist? Or a stoic, since they absorbed everything from Cynicism anyway?

[Anonymous No.6180128]

>>6180095

I also said building counter-economies and direct action. A diversity of tactics is what's needed.

We should work towards ending capitalism, I never said it would be a certainty. But those tendencies are the strongest towards achieving that aim.

[Anonymous No.6180138]

>>6180108
Do you see what I mean? Your comfort is just a different mater your supplicate in terror of stress.

I don't hide at all, but that doesn't mean anything. Even though I am not paralyzed by stress I am still controlled by those two forces.

[Anonymous No.6180159]

>>6180114
Stoics are not like Cynics at all. Cynicism is a rejection of the game, Stoicism is accepting helplessness within the game.

>>6180128
You can't end capitalism without violence on a massive scale. The people building the "counter economies" control a minuscule fraction of capital, and they won't control more because they aren't the class that owns the capital.

[Anonymous No.6180166]

>>6180138
>master

[Anonymous No.6180172]

I prefer Epicurean mode tbh. Just collecting welfare and enjoying a life of simple pleasures.

[Anonymous No.6180180]

>>6180159
>Stoics are not like Cynics at all. Cynicism is a rejection of the game, Stoicism is accepting helplessness within the game
Hey now, some of us like to think of it as taking things philosophically or waiting for our parents to die. Plus, cynics are not as happy about wine as one would expect for being so cynical. Or dogging, but that was a more reasonable misunderstanding.

[Anonymous No.6180188]

>>6180159
>Cynicism is a rejection of the game, Stoicism is accepting helplessness within the game.
What's the difference?

[Anonymous No.6180190]

>>6180172
>>6179916

[Anonymous No.6180202]

>>6180188
One legitimizes the game and subjects to its rule.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180205]

>>6180138
If I were 70 and let go from my job, no other way to make a living, turned out on the streets, I'd chug along as best I could.

Call me selfish but I want to live longer than is humanly possible, but I'll be happy to make it 120 as much as 65.
I'm mostly living a mildly happy life, and excess of pleasure usually comes from my own mind, like this Stendhal syndrome almost >>6179809 You don't have to live on the streets to live as simply as you're thinking. Give it a try before you take the plunge is all I'm trying to urge.

afk; bbl

[Anonymous No.6180230]

>>6180190
Epicureanism isn't necessarily more comfortable or less austere than Cynicism. It just takes a different approach to society. Cynicism is confrontational and aggressive and attempts to change society, whereas Epicureanism is more sceptical towards such endeavours and seeks to remove itself from those matters rather than seek them out.

Epicurean pleasure, at its simplest, is a cup of water, a bowl of oats and some good conversation. It has little to do with comfort and luxury and little to do with what is considered 'Epicurean' today, which generally refers to refined pleasures rather than simple ones.

My guess is that the Cynicism you are looking for is more like oldschool Epicureanism than actual Cynicism. Unless you're willing to start flicking your bean and biting law enforcement ankles at the local farmer's market.

[Anonymous No.6180233]

>>6180205
I am not suggesting you are selfish, that's not a concern. I am suggesting you are not free. You are a slave to comfort, and fear of stress keeps from having more than an "acceptable" life. But the point is that even if you turned your life around and became super successful and found love and traveled, you''d mostly still be playing the same game, you'd just be playing it with more enthusiasm. You'd be a slave to masters besides comfort.

[Anonymous No.6180238]

>>6180202
So Cynics reject the values of society/society itself, but even so they don't go as far as to reject virtue itself, like a nihilist would? Did the Transcendentlists just steal from the Cynics and join their philosophical natureboo club?

[Anonymous No.6180246]

>>6180230
>Cynicism is confrontational and aggressive and attempts to change society,
It's really not. It's aggressive and confrontation about criticism of society, but it doesn't at all expect to change it.

>Epicurean pleasure, at its simplest, is a cup of water, a bowl of oats and some good conversation. It has little to do with comfort and luxury and little to do with what is considered 'Epicurean' today, which generally refers to refined pleasures rather than simple ones.
I'm not confusing Epicureanism with hedonism. Unlike certain variants of hedonism, Epicureanism is a very "conservative" philosophy, that is it likes to play its investment as safe as possible.

>My guess is that the Cynicism you are looking for is more like oldschool Epicureanism than actual Cynicism.
No.

> Unless you're willing to start flicking your bean and biting law enforcement ankles at the local farmer's market.
I'm certainly not afraid of getting arrested.

[Anonymous No.6180260]

How come no one asked who this semen demon is yet?

[Anonymous No.6180264]

>>6179957
lel

booga booga back2nature

[Anonymous No.6180265]

>>6180238
>So Cynics reject the values of society/society itself, but even so they don't go as far as to reject virtue itself, like a nihilist would?
Not who you're responding to, but yes. Cynics saw virtue as opposed to societal values if anything. There's reason to believe Diogenes considered himself as being on a mission from God, trying to dissuade humanity from its hubris and urging them to return to the natural order of things, living more like their fellow animals.

[Anonymous No.6180266]

>>6180238
Cynicism isn't about living "naturally", it's just about curtailing pleasure sought for goodness sake rather than pleasure for its own sake. It's about simplifying your life in order to better perceive which pleasure is actually for itself, and which is a neurotic chase.

[Anonymous No.6180273]

>>6180265
Diogenes was not a primitivist by any means. Pseudo-primitivsm was for him a means to an end, and not an end in itself. He lived that way in order to get a better perspective on ideology.

[Anonymous No.6180285]

>>6180246
>It's really not. It's aggressive and confrontation about criticism of society, but it doesn't at all expect to change it.
Diogenes himself professed to dedicate himself to the re-education of people into the proper way of life. Of course he didn't really expect to succeed, but his attempts were sincere. The Cynics were about reform, and seriously so. Their antics were an instrument in this.

>No.
What do you consider Cynicism to be all about then? Also, how have you studied the ancient Cynics?

[Anonymous No.6180293]

>>6180273
He wasn't a primitivist in the Luddite sense, but he surely was in the sense of culture. He didn't mind marine navigation but he did mind the Olympics, so to say.

[Anonymous No.6180305]

>>6180285
>Diogenes himself professed to dedicate himself to the re-education of people into the proper way of life. Of course he didn't really expect to succeed, but his attempts were sincere. The Cynics were about reform, and seriously so. Their antics were an instrument in this.
Yes, his attempts here sincere, but he was just as skeptical of any attempt succeeding as Epicureans were.

>What do you consider Cynicism to be all about then?
Radical reevaluation of self. Taking "know thyself" to its end point by taking about all the trash and trying to carefully examine every aspect of what you hold dear, grain by grain, with as minimal of an ideology-web cluttering up your efforts as possible

>Also, how have you studied the ancient Cynics?
Certainly.

Also, how have you studied the ancient Cynics?

[Anonymous No.6180332]

>>6180293
I don't think he was positing his contemporary culture (even the Olympics) as "bad" inherently, so much as suggesting taking it for granted as bad. For instance, we he said he begged to statues as practice for humans, it's reflective of an idea that organized religion isn't bad in itself (in fact,Diogenes believed firmly in the gods), but that taking it for granted as good is bad. Diogenes contempt for the Olympics is that they were a sacred cow from just about every aspect, from religion to economics to entertainment to individual achievement.

[Anonymous No.6180339]

>>6180305
>Also, how have you studied the ancient Cynics?
Sorry, didn't mean to double post that, I can already tell you have.

[Anonymous No.6180362]

>>6180305
>Radical reevaluation of self. Taking "know thyself" to its end point by taking about all the trash and trying to carefully examine every aspect of what you hold dear, grain by grain, with as minimal of an ideology-web cluttering up your efforts as possible
I'd say you'd be better of with Pyrrho for that. As much as I love the Cynics, there were caught up deeply in spooks about nature and virtue and stuff like that. They were on to something with their type of asceticism being freeing in lots of ways, but at the same time they were enslaved to their own notions of right and wrong and how one ought to live, which were just as arbitrary as the ones put forth by competitive schools and the customs of the time.

>Certainly.
That's not really an answer to my question, is it?

>Also, how have you studied the ancient Cynics?
By reading academic studies about them, which is pretty much the only way. Navia and Desmond mostly.

[Anonymous No.6180410]

>>6177071
Enjoy fucking desperate women for the rest of your life that is if you're at least average looking, if not then enjoy celibacy.

[Anonymous No.6180414]

>>6180260
we're all gay mate

[Anonymous No.6180426]

>>6180362
>I'd say you'd be better of with Pyrrho for that. As much as I love the Cynics, there were caught up deeply in spooks about nature and virtue and stuff like that. They were on to something with their type of asceticism being freeing in lots of ways, but at the same time they were enslaved to their own notions of right and wrong and how one ought to live, which were just as arbitrary as the ones put forth by competitive schools and the customs of the time. If you're blind to this, it is only stresses it the more.
I can assure that whatever "spooks" you think you've consciously transcended, your ideology is still very much a product of your contemporary customs.


>By reading academic studies about them, which is pretty much the only way. Navia and Desmond mostly.
Well I've read an awful lot of ancient philosophy along with the ancient accounts of the lives of the Cynics. They might have explore more relevant information than I have, but if so, not much.

[Anonymous No.6180443]

>>6180265
>>6180266
But it feels like you guys are splitting hairs between Cynicism, Stoicism, and Transcendentalism; since the schools are so close they may or may not realize their free-flow of ideas between.

Cynicism and Transcendentalism both emphasize being "in touch" with nature, and rejecting the shallow materialism and forced dogma of society. Stoicism and Transcendentalism may be less brutal in it's contempt of society than Cynicism, but even still they both reject the comforts and materialism of society as a way to better themselves, focus on what's important, and better take part in society. And it could be argued that the Cynic really wants to better society as well as the "watchdog" that warns normal people of social and spiritual corruption. Though Transcendentalism focuses on intuition as a way of contacting virtue through humanity's natural state, Stoicism adopts the rigorous training and self discipline of Cynicism to unite one with natural virtue that may not be intuitive.

The desire to separate and classify three philosophical traditions that have become so intertwined that it would be humanly impossible to follow one without stepping far into the territory of another, just seems unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.6180485]

>>6180426
>I can assure that whatever "spooks" you think you've consciously transcended, your ideology is still very much a product of your contemporary customs.
No doubt, but I'm a whole lot more self-aware about that than the Cynics seemed to be. Which is my main problem with them. Their blind spot and lack of realisation of how much of their criticisms apply to themselves as well.

>Well I've read an awful lot of ancient philosophy along with the ancient accounts of the lives of the Cynics. They might have explore more relevant information than I have, but if so, not much.
You'd be surprised, actually. I really recommend this stuff:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/zp2ppnxjwj28c//Cynicism

Especially Navia's Classical Cynicism. It's likely a lot more in depth than anything you've read about them. At least it was for me, after having read the standard stuff (Diogenes Laertius, Wiki, IEP, Plato.Stanford etc). Someone with as serious an interest in Cynicism as yourself shouldn't pass these works up.

[Anonymous No.6180601]

>>6180485
>No doubt, but I'm a whole lot more self-aware about that than the Cynics seemed to be.
You have access to 2500 more years of thought and writing.

>
Especially Navia's Classical Cynicism. It's likely a lot more in depth than anything you've read about them. At least it was for me, after having read the standard stuff (Diogenes Laertius, Wiki, IEP, Plato.Stanford etc). Someone with as serious an interest in Cynicism as yourself shouldn't pass these works up.
I downloaded all of it and I will read it, thanks.

[Anonymous No.6180694]

>>6180601
>You have access to 2500 more years of thought and writing.
Yes, and I certainly don't resent them for it, but seeking to subscribe to their views nowadays doesn't seem like a good move to me, although there's a lot about them that is inspiring. Still, your desire to seek out more simplicity and austerity and see what you can do without and what you can't can be a very good idea and an educational experience. Just don't go burning any bridges in a flare of romanticism. Maybe give it a test drive first.

>I downloaded all of it and I will read it, thanks.
You're welcome.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180714]

>>6180233
If I'm not free from these concepts of comfort and happiness, I am similarly so with stress and pain. The whole comes to us from time to time. But they aren't "masters" in the traditional sense. They aren't people. they are me and my surroundings, and I choose to spend my freedom pursuing them, because that is life. You'll seek out whatever you need from your temporary shelter. A slave to your stomach. You'll be whipped forward to find more or die in the trying.

I know what it is you want, but cutting your life short for these principles is just worrisome to me. These are the ultimate in conservative principles, to revert back to an animals state. Appealing in a way, but a harsh kind of suicide.

[Anonymous No.6180724]

>>6180714
>But they aren't "masters" in the traditional sense. They aren't people
They are tools of social engineering.

[Anonymous No.6180757]

>>6180714
If most people were Cynics, we'd have communism. You can't say the same for Epicureanism or Stoicism.

[Anonymous No.6180777]

Cynics had their time. You'd have to be a fool not to embrace comfort and convenience and science and society nowadays. The benefits outweigh any problems that come with it by far.

We have discovered happiness.

[Anonymous No.6180788]

>>6180777
This attitude makes Cynicism more relevant than ever.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180789]

>>6180260
This one >>6180043 did. He could be referring to the OP though. She kind of had me wondering too.

>>6180266
It seems like you can do that within an Epicurean lifestyle. You could even be a homeless Epicurean.

>>6180724
"They" are our feelings and needs. What I'm referring to anyway.

>>6180777
And buried it back up again with the excess bullshit! Surely you're joking.

[Anonymous No.6180804]

>>6180789
>It seems like you can do that within an Epicurean lifestyle. You could even be a homeless Epicurean.
You can be a homeless lot of things, but comfort is not is not something I want to placate, it's something I want to diminish my dependence upon.

>"They" are our feelings and needs. What I'm referring to anyway.
To an extent, but we have become comfort junkies.

[Anonymous No.6180829]

>>6180777
My neck
My back
Lick my pussy and my crack

But I kind of feel you. We need to stop romanticizing nature as something that's not always trying to kill us.

[Anonymous No.6180835]

>>6180788
How so?

>And buried it back up again with the excess bullshit! Surely you're joking.
The only bullshit is in people taking silly stressed out attitudes to living. There's nothing inherently wrong with comfort, convenience, science and society. The general mentality needs some tweaking, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Anonymous No.6180838]

>>6180835
>>6180789
Sorry, quotation game not on fleek today.

[Anonymous No.6180848]

>>6180829
Cycism isn't a romanticizing of nature. Diogenes didn't go live out in the wilderness and hunt to stay alive.

>>6180835
>How so?
Cynicism is a reaction to mindless pursuit of comfort and materialism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180863]

>>6180804
>but comfort is not is not something I want to placate, it's something I want to diminish my dependence upon.
Above you made the distinction between a basic comfort and an excess of of it *pleasure* say. Epicureans are okay with the both of them, but you can do without. I just see some overlap between the two. Like the Stoics withstanding pains.
>we have become comfort junkies.
Agreed. Especially the wealthy, and they use it to buy people off. I know what you're(?) mean about communism not happening because of this junky behavior

But going full Enkidu-back-to-the-forests isn't going to fix the addiction any.

[Anonymous No.6180875]

>>6180848
>Cynicism is a reaction to mindless pursuit of comfort and materialism
What's mindless about comfort and nice things?

[Anonymous No.6180879]

>>6180863
>Above you made the distinction between a basic comfort and an excess of of it *pleasure* say. Epicureans are okay with the both of them, but you can do without. I just see some overlap between the two. Like the Stoics withstanding pains.
Excess of pleasure, what Lacan calls "enjoyment" is not pleasurable. In fact it can be painful. It is never pursued for its own value, but only as an imperative of society or the market, as a duty (Lacan used Marx's model for the surplus wealth created by labor, distinguishing what you labor for yourself, and all the extra labor you must do for your overlords). Neither of these are necessarily "comfort", and enjoyment is distinctly uncomfortable. By "comfort" I mean specifically a counter to stress, that is a way to alleviate stress, which is not a positive pleasure, but a reactionary pleasure used as medicine.

[Anonymous No.6180885]

>>6180875
Nothing, inherently. But there is mindless pursuit of them, that is pursuit of them because they are "good" past the point where they are simply fulfilling in their own right. For instance, there is a difference between sex as fulfillment, and sex as a neurotic pursuit because you "should" be having more sex.

[Anonymous No.6180888]

>>6180188
Cynism is not a rejection
usually cynism is just a breath outside, it helps the games to keep going
Hysteria would be the real rejection, the undefinition of rules or the constant change. I think in philosophical terms it would be materialism, with heraclitus as the oldest precursor

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180909]

>>6180757
>You can't say the same for Epicureanism
I don't this is right. I'm an epicurean anarchist. Certainly the bent may help.

>>6180777
>>6180829
Finding better ways to live is a human trait, for better or worse, but I'm just not one to throw away modern conveniences too easily, though I think it would do us some good to be rid of a lot.

[Anonymous No.6180913]

>>6180885
I agree. Cynicism seems more like a desperate overreaction to that than a proper reaction though, a drastic last resort. It's a sign of weakness and sensitivity in a way, in the same way that being a teetotaller is often a sign of being incapable of moderation.

After all, why would you completely give up all the benefits of contemporary society if not for the fact that you're incapable of dealing with them in any sensible way?

[Anonymous No.6180932]

>>6180913
If drinking were something everyone was expected to do a lot, then starting with being a teetotaler to get a fresh perspective would be reasonable. However, even in ancient Greece, when drinking wine was a fundamental part of every day, Cynics were hardly teetotalers.

>After all, why would you completely give up all the benefits of contemporary society if not for the fact that you're incapable of dealing with them in any sensible way?
In order you grasp how much you are simply a slave to them vs. how much they are simply nice things which serve you.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6180945]

>>6180879
I labor for chips in the game, and I honestly don't use them for much. Saving them to pay for arm surgery and the like. People wonder why I don't buy a car, or take that trip to see bits of Europe. There's a stress there that tells me I should save it. I don't see a warm bed or a hot shower as an excess of enjoyment. It is a basic.

Is this not Feminister, seriously?

[Anonymous No.6180958]

>>6180945
but you're a junky for the internet as relief.

>Is this not Feminister, seriously?
No, was she a Cynic?

[Anonymous No.6180975]

>>6180932
I get your point, but that would legitimise it only in so far as it is an experiment with that goal in mind, not turning the experiment into an ideology and a lifestyle in itself that is pursued for its own sake, which is what Cynicism ended up as.

Seeing what you can do without can be a valuable experience, but making an obsession of doing without things is just the flip side of material excess and just as limiting in many ways. Diogenes trampled upon Plato's carpets with the words "I trample upon the pride of Plato!" upon which Plato said: "Yes, with pride of another sort."

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6181011]

>>6180958
No, but she loves to read theory, and debates a lot like this. She's into Stirner, or was when we last spoke.

Yes, I admit I unwind with the computer as much as my books, more distractions, and I think I should do something about it. But really, what's the point? What difference would it make? Living simply to read and enjoy an exchange like this one every now and again, or live in the cold/hot open air scrounging for food till I die?

Again, it's something to try, but for a short while I suggest. Don't burn all your bridges, because I think you should come back to "civilization" such as it is.

[Anonymous No.6181016]

>>6180975
But Diogenes didn't deny his pride, he said he felt great pride making mice grovel for his crumbs.

Your very idea that "extremes are only good in moderation" defeats the purpose of extremes here.

[Anonymous No.6181026]

>>6181011
>But really, what's the point? What difference would it make?
Clarity of perspective is really the only point.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6181035]

>>6181026
I think I see clearly from here just fine.
I've seen a lot from my bike.
And from this internet connection.

[Anonymous No.6181042]

>>6181035
Can you really make the distinction between what fulfills you deeply, and what you simply cling to in terror of terror itself?

[Anonymous No.6181078]

>>6181016
I'm not saying extremes are only good in moderation, I'm saying replacing the tether of comfort for one of austerity shouldn't be confused for a gain in freedom.

You can be attached to non-attachment and find yourself throwing away your cup out of principle, which is just as silly as adhering to custom, perhaps even more so. Diogenes is just as attached to his notion of the good life as the people he criticises and his counter-culture is just another culture.

[Anonymous No.6181095]

>>6181078
You're basically saying that being a Cynic is like being addicted to not smoking.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6181127]

>>6181042
I donno.
I ask myself what do I really fear, and aside from horrible pain before in dying under some cars wheel, it's an irrational and unreal fear of being alone. Like stranded on Mars alone. As I said earlier, I used to have terrible anxiety. Nothing in my life changed to make that stop other than my acceptance of atheism. I was also nearly turned out onto the streets again, but I think it was the lack of fearing god that set my perspectives right.
What do you think?

[Anonymous No.6181133]

>>6181095
Yes, in a way. Look at AA for example. It's a non-drinking cult. People who define themselves by not doing a thing and building their lives around it.

[Anonymous No.6181770]

>>6177071

source on the boobs girl?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6181840]

>>6181770
Have you asked /tv/ yet?

[Anonymous No.6182032]

>>6177583
just admit that you are such a beta that you become a feminist

[Anonymous No.6182043]

>>6179954
>Riding the rails had some kind of charm to it when I was younger, but these bones want a room and warm bed.
>admitting at last that she is a gypsie

[Anonymous No.6182068]

>>6181095

He's right, except smoking isn't something normal. Addictions (not in the strict biological sense, but the loose sense of psychological dependence) are something that alter normal function significantly and detrimentally in order to be fulfilled. Emotion is normal function. Cynicist practice impairs, or if you like, "regulates" emotion out of norms. You could very fairly call it something like an addiction. The question of whether or not it's impairing is still up for grabs though. You could, very well, be psychologically dependent like AA people are and have it be very good for you, and very pleasant. For example, somebody likes to rise at midnight, stay awake for two hours composing music, and then go back to sleep. If they don't do this, despite it causing them some difficulty waking up on time, they feel uncomfortable. Indeed, they think of it with great anticipation all day, some to define themselves as a "night composer." They fear losing their identity if they stop doing it. However, they are also extremely emotionally fufulled by these compositions, and they later go on to be distinguished, etc. You could say that this person, if they were part of a group of people who did this, were part of a cult of not-sleeping and composing music.

[Anonymous No.6182074]

>>6180443
cynicism has this explicit part socially subversive that makes it perfect for the edgiest teenager.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6182085]

>>6182043
Not at all. I just get a wanderlust feeling. It could be hereditary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5XkLaDTBXM

[Anonymous No.6182108]

Why'd anyone want anything other than nihilism?

Why'd you follow some bullshit philosophy?

Why'd you limit yourself with bullshit philosophy?

Do you hate freedom?

[Anonymous No.6182136]

>>6182108
What if I'm gay?

[Anonymous No.6182149]

>>6177071
You're still looking at it through an ideological lens. Trying to imitate a pre-modern way of life in modernity is just symptomatic of a privileged individualism. If you don't take up revolutionary communist politics you'll basically end up being just another hippie.

[Anonymous No.6182153]

Are we all in agreement that there is no point to life?

[Anonymous No.6182162]

>>6180038
No they aren't, women are demons

[Anonymous No.6182168]

>>6182153
the only meaning in life is memeing

[Anonymous No.6182928]

>>6182108
>not being an aestheticist

It's like nihilism, but pretty.

[Anonymous No.6182958]

>>6182153
>not finding meaning in dose tittays

[Anonymous No.6183401]

>>6180093
Not them but I love that movie butterfly :) Varda is one of my favorite filmmakers

[Anonymous No.6183415]

>>6180038
>implying there has been a single human being alive, anywhere on the earth, since November 13, 1887

[Anonymous No.6183429]

a cycnical woman is more unattractive than actually being an ugly woman. however, it probably means shes got low self esteem.

OP, do you have low self esteem?

[Anonymous No.6183475]

Advice on the transient Lebenstil:

http://www.reddit.com/r/vagabond

[Anonymous No.6184097]

>>6183429
pro-tip: Philosphical Cynicism and every day cynicism are completely different things.

[Anonymous No.6184210]

Cynicism is probably the most drole of all "ways of living". The cynic simply sits there and moans about what everybody else is doing instead of worrying about himself.

[Anonymous No.6184246]

>>6177127
>john