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/lit/ - Literature

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6154706 No.6154706 [Reply] [Original]

when is violence justified?

>> No.6154708

>>6154706
>time
>justice
That will seem violent

>> No.6154710

>>6154706
When you use force to make Taylor Swift suck your dick and when you brutally sodomize her.

>> No.6154714

>>6154708
explain

>>6154710
and the award for edgiest post of the day goes to

>> No.6154717

>>6154714
Thanks anon, means a lot.

>> No.6154719

When you're coked off your tits and some cunt looks at you funny.

>> No.6154720

>>6154706
When you ask stupid questions like that

>> No.6154721

Justification is absurd.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

>> No.6154722

I think people are too squeamish about violence these days. There are worse things in life.

>> No.6154726

>>6154722
>There are worse things in life

Really? Elaborate.

>> No.6154734

>>6154726
Disease, systemic poverty, the realization that justice and right are just words people use to make themselves feel better.

Violence is just a tool, sometimes it's used to take things from others, or to keep what's yours.

And in the end, violence is the root of all justice; the law is only the law because the police beat and imprison you if you don't comply.

>> No.6154736

>>6154726
Being you

>> No.6154737

>>6154726
I'd rather be punched in the face than lied to by someone I trusted, for a small-scale example.

>> No.6154744

>>6154734
>the law is only the law because the police beat and imprison you if you don't comply

but surely there is just law and unjust law

>> No.6154748

>>6154744
Are you just pretending to be stupid?

>> No.6154751

>>6154734
>Violence is just a tool, sometimes it's used to take things from others, or to keep what's yours.

Well I think there is a moral and ethical difference between defensive violence and aggressive violence, but that's just me then I guess.

>> No.6154755

>>6154751
You provoked it by existing you douche

>> No.6154759
File: 58 KB, 243x658, Mark Selby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6154759

>>6154748
>>6154755
m8 do you have any serious responses or are you just going to keep being be a dick?

>> No.6154760

>>6154714
>explain
Either could produce seeming violence; together, an impression of violence is overdetermined, and, here, predicate; you want all three of these and yourself; none of them might be.

>> No.6154766

When some cunt acts like he's the big man.

>> No.6154771

>>6154759
I'm just disgusted at your level of thought

How can you believe that 'defensive violence' means anything beyond legal bandying and politics?

Do you really think that something can be inherently 'just'?

>> No.6154775

>>6154759
If you start at some a priori conception of morality then, yes, but airy fairy metaphysics you can get to distinctions about just and unjust law.

If you start out by disclaiming ethical metaphysics and go full moral nihilist, which, while correct, is edgy, then, no, there is no just and unjust law. Thrasymachus is right: justice is the advantage of the stronger.

>> No.6154776

>>6154706
Justification, to me, is just a way of a person coping with their evil deeds. If it is wrong, then the person who does it will force himself to think he is right. I guess violence is justified if enough people take your side or sympathize with you.

>> No.6154777
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6154777

>>6154706
at this point i'd only want to be near her

>> No.6154778

>>6154776
What if someone needs to justify a good deed?

>> No.6154779

>>6154751
there is no defensive and aggressive violence.
there might be cases where the use of violence was defensive or offensive in that specified context.

>> No.6154785

Since the state claims to hold the monopoly of violence, violence is justified when its used within the laws of said state.
t. Lawyer

>> No.6154786

>>6154777
>tfw you will never cum on her feet

>> No.6154787

>>6154777
Show her your heavenly trips so she understands your essential worth and good intentions.

>> No.6154795

>>6154785
This legalist stance is basically the correct one, and is the only coherent one if you don't think you could win in a fight with violence against the state.

>> No.6154798

>>6154771
>Do you really think that something can be inherently 'just'?

yes, rawls makes a strong case for how

>> No.6154801

>>6154798
Pffffffftttttttt. Babby-tier moral philosophy here.

Rawls makes a good game theory case for why, if you're just dropped into the world, you basically don't want anyone to have overwhelming advantages because you might end up fucked.

You've got no reason to stick by it if you're the one doing the fucking.

>> No.6154818

>>6154785
So I'm not the only one? Nice.

>> No.6154835
File: 17 KB, 286x400, thrasymachus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6154835

>>6154706
justifiable/unjustifiable is the false dichotomy of plebeians.

might is right.

>> No.6154850

>>6154835
"Right" is a justification.

>> No.6154856

when words dont work
indirect force

when indirect force doesnt work then direct force

violence is just when it is a just' cause, defending yourself or innocents, and direct force is justified for use when both words and indirect force have failed

>> No.6154857

>>6154835
Ironically, this is actually a very plebeian thought. If Thucydides and Xenephon are at all reliable, democracies of ancient Greece, including Athens, really liked to shit on people they conquered, and politically often massacred their opponents. Whereas states like Sparta tended to have a great deal of respect for morality and have a very strong sense of wars being just or unjust; in Thucydides, fighting an unjust war goes so far as to adversely affect the morality of Spartan soldiers.

>> No.6154862

>>6154706
>when is violence justified?
for sexual needs

>> No.6154866

>>6154706
when God says it is

>> No.6154870

>>6154866
That would be never.

>> No.6154879

>>6154850
it would be when I would have said might *makes* right. might is right is merely observational.

>> No.6154880

>>6154879
when was the last time you observed abstractions.

>> No.6154881

>>6154857
I don't really understand why Thucydides essentially says that strong states should rule weaker states but derides plebeians like Kleon for advocating the Mytilinean massacre.

>> No.6154883

during a revolution

>> No.6154885

>>6154879
Might make the law, but the law is not necessarily "right".

>> No.6154889

>>6154881
I don't recall him ever saying strong states should rule over weak ones.

>> No.6154894

As always, 4chan is the best source for philosophy.

>> No.6154906

>>6154885
Might makes a whole lot more than the law.

>> No.6154911

>>6154889
Most people infer it from the speeches in Book I

>> No.6154914

>>6154906
"Right" refers to lawful or just. I'm not really concerned with the other things might makes, since we're talking about right.

>> No.6154917
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6154917

Violence is an intrusion into somebody else's personality that inflicts a certain level of negative sentiments on him/her.
In other words muh feelings. Violence is therefore justified when the act allows a greater amount of positive sentiments for somebody else.
Extrapolate you're options on my thesis

>> No.6154922

Life is violence.

>> No.6154923

>>6154911
That's quite something to infer, when Thucydides has even Pericles saying that Athens started their empire on morally questionable grounds in his eulogy.

>> No.6154928

>>6154917
Babby tier utilitarianism without provision for relative advantages.

>> No.6154942
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6154942

When it's ultra

>> No.6154945

>>6154726
Depression

Hopelessness

Confinement

>> No.6155242

>>6154734
>violence is the root of all justice

Kek

>> No.6155260

Violence is necessary because humans have the potential to treat themselves and others are mere means. Right duties are those that can be enforced by force of law, while virtues or virtuous duties are those that cannot be enforced by law, only by the rational beings own free will.
The state enforces right duties, which inhibits rational beings from acting on their own freely chosen ends, but it is a necessary sacrifice to guarantee persons act in ways that don't excessively treat others as mere means. Until we reach the realm of ends, violence is necessary to secure the maximum possible freedom

>> No.6155280

>>6154706
When defending the honor of the glorious goddess Taylor Swift

>> No.6155296

Because we have to protect the jews from the arabs so the messiah can return

>> No.6155393
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6155393

opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

people will resort to violence after them have lost everything and have nothing left to live for. when this society takes everything you value away from you and reminds you of it everyday.

>> No.6155657

It's cool to fuck up whites in America if you're black. But that's cool cuz supposedly we did something to them.

>> No.6155663

>>6154706
When reform fails.

>> No.6155669

>>6155260
This is what happens when you shove Kant up your ass, so far you puke him out.

>> No.6155675

>>6155296
Couldn't we just protect them so they don't get murdered?

>> No.6155693

>>6155242
"It had to be done, that either the just be strong, or that the strong be just, for justice without strength is powerless, and strength without justice is tyrannical. Since the just couldn't be made to be strong, the strong was made to be just".

>> No.6155986

Always because violence justifies itself.

>> No.6155995

>>6154719

This.

Also if some cunt tries to nick your taxi or pushes in front of you at the kebab shop.

>> No.6156000

>>6154862
/thread

>> No.6156024

>>6154721
>taking advice from a schizophrenic stage magician

>> No.6156087

When there is another threat to life that has been shown to be either highly unpredictable or unwilling to negotiate logically, this threat should be removed with the most extreme force possible that will A: resolve and reduce the threat and B: work to preserve the lives that are threatened.

For instance, if a man is confronting police officers with a knife, and is in no position to others, he should be tazered, or hit with a beanbag round.
But if he is holding someone hostage, a more drastic usage of force is necessary to preserve that hostages life, and authorities should put a round through the mans head.

Basically, one should aim to preserve all life, but the life of the non aggressor takes precedence over the life of the aggressor.
Initial aggression for any reason is not justified unless it is for the above rules.
Damaging property is also to count as a minor form of aggression.

With this in mind, confronting burglars with a handgun would be perfectly acceptable, but firing upon a unarmed burglar who was raising his hands would not be. If however, the burglar charged, or reached for a weapon, greater force would be authorized.

>> No.6157083

>>6156087
>negotiate logically,
logic is magic

also, we should not preserve life, but rather peaceful and consensual death

>> No.6157101
File: 101 KB, 700x693, Rembrandt_Harmensz_van_Rijn_REH013.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6157101

If you and a fertile woman were the last people on earth, but she refused to copulate with you, would it be ethically justifiable to rape her?

>> No.6157127
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6157127

>>6157101
That plumpness...

>> No.6157162
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6157162

>Violence may not be the answer, but it is almost certainly a step in the right direction.

>> No.6157191

>>6157101
naw man, the human race pretty much blows and isn't worth saving. have her platonically help you preserve all of our most useful knowledge, literature, and art for the next species/aliens to either learn from or enjoy.

but lets be real, women are horny as hell and being the last woman capable of reproduction would make her wetter than a sponge in the ocean.

Honestly, post-apocalyptic libido surge seems like a legit possibility.

>> No.6157207

>>6157101
It wouldn't help either way. The amount of inbreeding that would occur if there was just one man and women would destroy the species.

But honestly, if the last women was such a cunt that she'd rather kill off all of humanity instead of touching your penis, I would just leave her and find the last usable fleshlight.

>> No.6157291

>>6157207
but adam n' eve bruv


captcha: hoomp

>> No.6157294

>>6154706
Always

>> No.6157339
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6157339

in the bedroom

>> No.6157960

>>6154726
humiliation

>> No.6157965

>>6154751
>Well I think there is a moral and ethical difference between defensive violence and aggressive violence

you can argue just about anything to be justified or defensive. except maybe for insane people who randomly attack strangers because the voices in their heads tell them to.

>> No.6157970

>>6157339
ugly af lol

>> No.6157976

>>6157339
are you implying you fuck muppets by posting that image? looks like kermit's cousin or something

>> No.6157991

>>6157207

Well you'd just have to fuck your children as well as work dem dere epigenetics (train some to become more physical, others more mental, have people live in different climates etc.)

With enough luck it might just work. You have to be pretty meticulous about it though, and the first few dozen generations should be quite regulated.

>> No.6157992
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6157992

>>6157976
>>6157970

tasteless meatheads

>> No.6158000

>>6157992
i'd rather be tasteless than posting pictures of muppets from my iPhone. which episode of sesame street is that one from?

>> No.6158215

>>6155995
ossie
ossie
ossie

>cunt

nice to see you based tone bros

>> No.6158248
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6158248

>>6157992

>> No.6158264

>>6158000
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT_YS8KhXYM

>> No.6158541

>>6154945
lies

lies propagated by the weak and fearful

>> No.6159586

>>6154706
When you know you can win.

>> No.6159593

>>6154706
When you can justify it.

>> No.6159613

>>6154771
>How can you believe that 'defensive violence' means anything beyond legal bandying and politics?

The word has obvious meaning beyond the legal and political, do you really think otherwise?

>>6154776
Are you trying to imply violence is inherently bad?

>> No.6159991

Is it better to stand up and fail in the face of overwhelming advantages, or to let yourself be conquered? i.e. in a fight against 40 people, should you fight or give up?

>> No.6159998

>>6154706
her arms are freakishly skinny

they resemble large breed Milk Bones

>> No.6160000

>>6159991
Depends on what you're trying to do.

>> No.6160016

>>6160000
nice quads, and i'm not really sure. there was a thread about this once but i forgot the exact question.

>> No.6160022
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6160022

>>6159998

Oh yeah you're so right I don't fancy her at all now in fact if I saw her in the street I'd probably like spit on her or something eww she's so repulsive.

>> No.6160030

>>6160022
did i say that
no
she's beautiful
but her arms are not beautiful

like i had this friend who was hot but had really hairy arms and while she was beautiful her arms were not

>> No.6160056

>>6159998
dude be nice she browses the kyrgyz bride kidnapping teknival

>> No.6160060

>>6160056
What the fuck did you just say?

>> No.6160062

In reaction to it

>> No.6160064

>>6160060
>>6160056
yeah i kinda lost that last bit there

>> No.6160124

>>6160060
>>6160064
He's saying Taytay maybe on 4chan using le epic meme, while covertly alluding to his desire to bride-kidnap her.

>> No.6160134

When a nigger steals your future gf and tries to fuck her on the beach.

>> No.6160144

>>6160022
She's not that beautiful on that photo. That fringe of her on her forehead does her disservice. She's more charming on OP pic.

>> No.6160167

>>6154706
taytay is so cute.
retarded quesiton btw

>> No.6160172

if she wanted to, i'd definitely have sex with her. but she won't want to because i'm not famous or wealthy or even interesting. i've also started to put on a bit of weight and i can only do 10 pushups now. i'm a worthless human being not worthy of licking her toe jam

>> No.6160190

>>6160172

oh sorry this is /lit/, thought i was on r9k.
What I meant to say is that I haven't read anything in the last month except for about 50 pages of pleb tier Murakami. She'd find my conversation so devoid of intelligence that she'd most likely just roll her eyes and walk away. "Another homo erectus come to pollute the air around me with his odour" she'd think.

>> No.6160214

>>6160172
>>6160190
She'd also hate me because I killed a thread about her.

>> No.6160216

>>6160214
just realised that the thread is actually about violence. ignore me

>> No.6160266

I like a girl who isn't afraid of showing her armpits.

>> No.6160509

>>6155260
>free will
Stopped reading right there.

>> No.6160519

I want to suck on Taylor Swifts asshole

>> No.6160609

>>6160509
Hurr durr determinism means there is no free will I can do whatever I want because it was determined hurr durr.

>> No.6160622

>>6160609
>determinism means there is no free will
...yes, that's about the size of it.

>> No.6160623

when someone insults Taylor

>> No.6160626

>>6160609
>hurr durr I'm a retard who doesn't realize there is no free will in an indeterministic universe either
Also,
> I can do whatever I want because it was determined hurr durr.
has nothing to do with this. The nature of moral responsibility for one's actions is it's own subject.

>> No.6160633

taylor is a disgusting skank bitch

>> No.6160638

>>6160622
>>6160626
Free will is a shorthand for "you can make decisions". That these decisions are determined or even constrained doesn't mean you didn't make them.

>The nature of moral responsibility for one's actions is it's own subject.
I agree. But that's clearly the direction all these determinism babbies go in.

>> No.6160658

>>6160638
>Free will is a shorthand for "you can make decisions".
No. Stop changing the definition of the word.

Free will means that you can "will what you will".

>That these decisions are determined or even constrained doesn't mean you didn't make them.
See above.

>> No.6160676

>>6154706
You know she fucks niggers.

>> No.6160687

>>6160658
If you want to jump down the rabbit hole of metaphysics, be my guest. Let's agree on the point that the lack of free will does not mean you can disclaim responsibility for one's actions.

>> No.6160691

>>6160687
one can disclaim responsibility for one's actions*

>> No.6161066

When is it not?