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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Mon Feb 16 11:53:48 2015 No.6150480 [Reply] [Original]

Have any of you read this? Thoughts? Is it worth the read and does it provide a good analysis of marxism? Is it worthy at least as a historical read?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 11:58:13 2015 No.6150501 He's a better poet than politician.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 11:59:25 2015 No.6150504 I've read a few of his quotes here and there online and they're fairly based wouldn't read a whole book of it though

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 12:25:50 2015 No.6150598 >>6150480 read his essays instead

Anonymous Mon Feb 16 12:26:04 2015 No.6150600

Read it for yourself,

"Whoever wants to know a thing has no way of doing so except by coming into contact with it, that is, by living (practicing) in its environment. ... If you want knowledge, you must take part in the practice of changing reality. If you want to know the taste of a pear, you must change the pear by eating it yourself.... If you want to know the theory and methods of revolution, you must take part in revolution. All genuine knowledge originates in direct experience."

Anonymous Mon Feb 16 15:04:52 2015 No.6151221

>>6150480
>Have any of you read this?
Yes.
>Thoughts?
Read essays instead.
>Is it worth the read
No. Read essays instead.
>and does it provide a good analysis of marxism?
No. Read Marx, Kolakowski and Lukacs.
>Is it worthy at least as a historical read?
No. The Little Yellow Book is better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 15:06:05 2015 No.6151225 the shit takes two seconds to read, just do it and move on

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 15:17:08 2015 No.6151267 >>6151221 What are the merits of his essays?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 15:23:08 2015 No.6151297 >>6151267 they're longer? i donno, there's one about some chick that kills herself on the way to her traditional chink wedding that gets bandied about by womens studies ppl n shit, but most of it is like standard stalinist biolerplate

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 17:26:20 2015 No.6151907 >>6151221 >read marx >laughingcapitalists.jpg

>>	Buttery Farts !T4fCYU9f1Q Mon Feb 16 17:30:14 2015 No.6151929 Mao captures Marx's ideas better than anyone else who came after. Its a must read

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 17:32:55 2015 No.6151942 >>6151929 Yet, as always, executes them so poorly.

Anonymous Mon Feb 16 17:34:41 2015 No.6151952

>>6151929
For years, theorists have struggled with the energy crisis. 'Till at last, they came upon something strange. Entombed six feet beneath a weathered grave an unknown force had captured with near 1:1 efficency the conversion from mass to energy.

The grave, it was to be later told, was of Karl Marx; a famous 19th century critical theorist. The cause remains unknown, but historians have their suspicions. Even know, they're scouring 21st century technologies for the cause.

Lest they find that post that, for all its ignominy, sent Marx mad beyond death - to spin in his grave for all eternity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 17:54:05 2015 No.6152035 >>6151952 kek

>>	Transgendered Buttery Farts !T4fCYU9f1Q Mon Feb 16 17:55:42 2015 No.6152038 >>6151942 holy shit dude, just read it agian >>6151952 just fuggin read it man

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 17:59:14 2015 No.6152053 >>6151952 hahahaha

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 18:06:53 2015 No.6152086 >>6150480 Read theo thers girst

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 18:08:17 2015 No.6152089 File: 23 KB, 301x267, 1410156838117.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6151952

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 18:11:04 2015 No.6152100 >>6150480 >Quotations from Chairman Mao Chairman Always funny when people can't into Mandarin.

Anonymous Mon Feb 16 18:36:30 2015 No.6152219

Thing about Maoism is that it seems like the simplest most cheerful shit ever, yet Maoist theory right now is one of the most baroque philosophies there is (thanks to frogs), and practical Maoism is bitter and paranoid Third World crypto-ba'athist Prison activism(thanks to burgers)

Personally, I really like Mao's writing, even if I think something might have been lost in translation. I think it helps to talk to actual Maoists to get a clear idea of what he really means. It kind of reminds me of reading the Quran. While the Quran sounds like every old religious text ever, Mao's writing kind of sounds like most Post-Lenin Marxist literature, which I enjoy because it happens to be my favorite kind of genre fiction.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 19:05:55 2015 No.6152348 File: 23 KB, 342x414, yang.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6152219 "tyranny you say? How can you tyrannize someone who can not feel pain?"

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 19:08:29 2015 No.6152363 >>6150600 I asked for a review, not a summary. I'm currently reading it for myself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 19:51:14 2015 No.6152563 >>6152348 three chin of flax

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 19:56:08 2015 No.6152577 >>6152100 Recommend some modern-post modern Chinese literature please thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 16 23:47:32 2015 No.6153524 >>6152219 Does Lenin or any of the other Marxist/leninists/Stalinists have the degree of philosophical inquiry concerning epistemology and consciousness/materiality that Mao does?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 01:35:56 2015 No.6153877 >>6151267 >What are the merits of his essays? They're essays, not aphorism.

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 01:37:37 2015 No.6153882

>>6151907
I get paid to teach capitalists Marx.

I deliberately do the minimal job required.

>>6153524
Lenin, Empiro-criticism. Engels, Anti-Dühring.

More seriously Lukacs, Frankfurt (I rarely recommend, but for your shit), and of course, Althusser (again).

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 01:56:35 2015 No.6153935 >>6153882 Oh Jesus, I'll never understand why so many self-proclaimed "Marxists" dig right back into the fluffy metaphysics Marx himself deeply scorned.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 02:09:23 2015 No.6153999 >>6153935 Because organising unions is haaaard, let's go talk theory.

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 12:33:45 2015 No.6155173

>>6153999
By the way, why do you think Kolakowski and Lukacs are good sources for Marxism? Kolakowski's reading of Marxism was superficial at best and dogmatic at worst. And Lukacs Hegelian turn was too idealist to consider him a source on Marxism.

I would consider the best Marxists, aside from the man himself, to be E.P. Thompson, Paul Mattick Sr. (though I like all of the Root and Branch group), and Harry Braverman. I'm drawing from the western Marxists, mostly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 12:48:28 2015 No.6155209 http://lesmaterialistes.com/english/dialectical-materialism-homosexuality Guys, does this mean I can be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mfLvaSWdyo and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tkXgw2OMY @ the same time?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 13:10:28 2015 No.6155265 File: 8 KB, 136x222, 1410782535964.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6150600 >being this much of an empiricist pleb >Moa

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 13:20:23 2015 No.6155294
File: 230 KB, 768x1024, punch yourself in the mouth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6155265
It is absolutely not possible to get to any answers without a basis in experiment.

Logic will get you from A to B, but A must have a foundation in reality for B to follow.

Out of a brain comes nothing, that was not already in it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 13:21:30 2015 No.6155300 >>6155265 >being anything else >implying the positivists didn't rek all other kinds of epistemology >implying logical positivism wasn't the end of philosophy

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 13:23:44 2015 No.6155312 File: 43 KB, 250x337, 1422233951912.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6155294 >>6155300 EIDF pls go

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 14:01:59 2015 No.6155424

>>6155173
Not that poster, but getting my two cents in here. The Making of the English Working Class is a fantastic read, and I get where Thompson is coming from, but I do agree with GA Cohen's argument that Thompson's wholesale rejection of a structural notion of class throws the baby out with the bathwater. Which is not to say that I support Analytic Marxism in its totality. AM goes even further than Thompson in ripping the heart out of Marxism.

Fully agree on Mattick - he is a writer of exceptional clarity. His essays 'Luxemburg vs Lenin' and 'Spontaneity and Organisation' are really essential. In fact, all of the essays collected in 'Anti-Bolshevik Communism', which includes some vicious and righteous attacks on Lenin and Kautsky.

As for the topic of the thread, the little red book is a collection of aphorisms ripped from any kind of context. Its only worth is as a historical document. Mao's essays 'On Practice' and 'On Contradiction' are considered to be his main contribution as a theorist. If you're interested in twentieth century Chinese history, Mao has plenty other interesting essays, like 'Analysis of the various classes of Chinese society' (I think this is the English name) and 'On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People.'

Arlif Dirlik's 'Origins of Marxist Historiography in China' is a fascinating book that shows how fertile (and problematic) Marxist thought was in China in the 20s and 30s. Eddy U, who otherwise has some pretty crazy ideas, also has an interesting article 'Intellectuals and Alternative Socialist Paths in the Early Mao Years.'

There are some interesting thinkers on the 'new left' in China. Li Minqi, for example, deals with energy concerns from a Marxist perspective.
newleftreview. org/I/235/wang-chaohua-wang-dan-li-minqi-a-dialogue-on-the-future-of-china

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 14:18:46 2015 No.6155458 >>6155424 >Thompson's wholesale rejection of a structural notion of class strawman, Thompson never implies that

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 14:24:43 2015 No.6155466 >>6155458 "There is today an ever-present temptation to suppose that class is a thing...."

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 14:38:16 2015 No.6155483

>>6155173
Lukacs is already too idealist in History and Class Consciousness. Lukacs provides the best "dogmatic" approach to "vulgar" marxism.

Kolakowski is useful for the wide ranging summary he provides of tendencies.

If you like Thompson, Mattick and Braverman, try Lomax's source books on the Hungarian revolution.

>>6155424
On the Correct Handling is alright. Shame that these are ideological glass baubles not reflecting the social reality of a nomenklatura party.

>>6155466
what is "reification." And it isn't putting blue hair on a cock.

Anonymous Tue Feb 17 14:47:20 2015 No.6155511
File: 29 KB, 279x304, 1390189489091.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6155483
>If you like Thompson, Mattick and Braverman, try Lomax's source books on the Hungarian revolution.

Sure, I'll give it a shot at some point. Can't say I've ever come across him.

>what is "reification." And it isn't putting blue hair on a cock
Pic related.

Captcha: Roode

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 22:22:35 2015 No.6157097 >>6151297 that's lu xun you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 23:16:33 2015 No.6157323 >>6150480 Mao is based, no lie. Read through his stuff, but Quotations is to Mao was the Manifesto is to Marx and Engels.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 17 23:21:18 2015 No.6157350 >>6157323 *what Time for bed.

>>	kitty !kitty/EnNg Wed Feb 18 00:25:34 2015 No.6157596 >>6155265 >>Moa moa~

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 18 01:16:20 2015 No.6157794 File: 99 KB, 530x362, Khmer-rouge-002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6151942 I thought Extreme leftists were good at execution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 18 01:43:34 2015 No.6157874 >>6157794 >Extreme TO THE MAXXXX ARCTIC ICE MOUNTAIN DUE

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