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/lit/ - Literature

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6136971 No.6136971 [Reply] [Original]

Has there ever been a more accurate depiction of the human condition?

>> No.6136980

I have to read this for uni and it is boring as hell

>> No.6136989

Yes, plenty. 'Leviathan' is prescriptive, reactionary political ideology, it has as much to do with the 'human condition' as the ink its printed with.
Not saying that as a critique of it's contents, only that any work that advances definite ideological goals is going to be extremely insular.

>> No.6137084

>>6136989
But that's not to say it doesn't describe mankind and its nature. I thought its account was pretty compelling myself, the nature of man as inherently selfish and driven by a sum of vices and fears

>> No.6137100

>>6137084
>the nature of man as inherently selfish and driven by a sum of vices and fears
That's an ideological worldview with a very ideologically rhetorical usage of the word "nature".

>> No.6137111

Extremely flawed, and if for nothing else, Rousseau is a worthwhile read to see him take the piss on Hobbes.

Hobbes is of course an invaluable thinker, but not because of his cynical idea of human nature, which is something Machiavelli took for granted without going into some silly about life without a state.

>>6136989
>reactive
lollololololl is that so? maybe you're forgetting when the work was written?

>> No.6137119

Read up what mirror neurons are and disregard all the outdated philosophy about the human condition.

>> No.6137120

>>6137111
>lollololololl is that so? maybe you're forgetting when the work was written?
What is this even supposed to mean? It was written during the English Civil War, Leviathan is the quintessential political reactionary work

>> No.6137150

>>6137120
It's conservative, but it sure as hell isn't reactionary. Hobbes is firmly a writer of the Enlightenment.

>> No.6137648

>>6137084

> the nature of man as inherently selfish and driven by a sum of vices and fears

the real problem is that Hobbes took the average Englishman's nature as a depiction of the human condition of decent human beings

>> No.6137960

Hobbes is known as a political theorist but his writings on materialism are more valuable than his writings on the "leviathan"

>> No.6138279
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6138279

>>6136971
Yes

>> No.6138313

>>6137960
Nah, he was metaphysically sloppy. Check out De Corpore, which is like the first few chapters of Leviathan except worse. Have you ever seen his laughable proof on squaring the circle?

>> No.6138974

>>6137648
Spot on

>> No.6139094

>>6137648

kek. but seriously people are fucking retarded scum to a man and if you actually believe that this varies from nation to nations except in detail you probably have never been outside.

>> No.6139445

>>6136971
>babby's first political philosophy
>thinks it's the best thing ever

Read Locke to see how Hobbes is wrong even within the support for a Constitutional Monarchy, then read Rousseau and Marx.

>> No.6139725
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6139725

>> No.6139732

>>6139445
Jesus, it's like you people completely ignore their rebuttals. They were some of the shittiest 'thinkers' ever.

>> No.6139753 [DELETED] 

Political philosophy blows.

>> No.6139897

>>6136971
La Rochefoucauld's Maxims

>> No.6139913

>>6136971

bro this picture doesn't describe anything remotely recognizable to pre-urban humans.

>> No.6141960

>>6137150
Some aspects of the Enlightenment were adopted by monarchs, e.g. Enlightened Absolutism

>> No.6142377

>>6137120
It's not. It's the exact center. It's modernity.

>> No.6142430

>>6137111

Rousseau thought the state of nature is a point in anthropological development. Hobbes is excused because his conception of the state of nature is like a newtonian law of physics that is empty until you fill it with content. Sovereign entities enter into the state of nature, but it isn't necessary that individuals ever existed in the state of nature.

>> No.6143710

>>6136971
>1/3 of book is devoted for his psudo-christian theology hiding his atheism

Otherwise it`s most enjoyable.