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/lit/ - Literature


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6128747 No.6128747 [Reply] [Original]

Which of those has more artistic merit: slam poetry or hip-hop music?

>> No.6128750

>>6128747
hip hop, but mostly the stuff from the golden era, not any of the contemporary music industry shit

slam poetry is faggy as all hell

>> No.6128754

Hip Hop

>> No.6128755

>>6128747
Hip-hop.

>> No.6128758

Thugs better scat when the gat goes click-clack

>> No.6128759

>>6128747
Hip hop by miles. No contest.

>> No.6128764

>>6128747
rap

>> No.6128773

>>6128750
>>6128754
>>6128755
>>6128758
>>6128759
>>6128764
>>>/mu/

Anyone who says slam poetry:
>>>/t/umblr

>> No.6128781

slam poetry is actually probably one of the few contemporary forms of poetry that is true to its oral roots. hip hop is more rigid, a slave to the beat and its emphasis on flow than orality or content. it's gimmicks are wholy based on edginess: digs and jabs at others. slam poetry is pretty good if you're not a poltard

>> No.6128795

>>6128781
>slam poetry is pretty good if you're not a poltard
Literally Reddit

>> No.6128805

>>6128781
slam poetry has no soul
if you ever listened live to some random kid spitting rhymes on a street and compare it to any college kid on a open mic night at your coffee shop, you feel me.

>> No.6128806

>>6128781
>liking slam poetry because it's close to the oral traditions of poetry
Greeks used to fuck boys too, is that why you're such a faggot?

By the way, relations between slam poetry and traditional oral poetry begins and ends with the fact that it's recited.

>> No.6128849
File: 28 KB, 400x363, butitdo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6128849

>>6128747
Is slam poetry just performed poetry? Isn't that basically rap? Where's the distinction?

It seems like slam poetry is mostly just shitty un-rhymed rap, which ends up looking the same as shitty unrhymed poetry.

I've seen some good poetry performances. Think of it as a one man play with a poem for the dialogue. Unfortunately most of it is SJW shit.

In general OP, there's no doubt that rap has more artistic merit. There's a lot of garbage, obviously, like in any form of art, but at it's best it's a great meeting point between verbal storytelling and music. Again, unfortunately what usually happens is SJWs, professors and bloggers alike, go around saying "2pac is literally poetry XDDD, Shakespeare would have been a rapper XDDD". And on the other side, pretentious faggots don't recognize the artistic significance of rap because it doesn't have all the ideological bells and whistles that make them feel so intellectual.

And no, I'm not saying "this is real rap, not about money and drugs XDD". I'm saying there are examples of rappers who clearly have strong linguistic and narrative abilities, and I don't really see how anyone can deny that.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGS94ZhEhYg
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGnXL0lX44w
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JX4c8nXPsA

>> No.6128875

I've never listened to slam poetry. I see no reason that, if it's done well, it wouldn't be good. Some hip hop is really good.

So I would say good slam poetry and good hip hop probably have equal artistic merit, and the shittier examples have less.

>> No.6128885

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QWEPdgS3As

Hip hop has the advantage in that even if the words are not of your linking, it can still be pleasurable to listen to.

>> No.6128886
File: 527 KB, 820x613, gVqNpqT.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6128886

>>6128849
THOSE ARE ALL WHITE RAPPERS

STEP AWAY FROM ME FASCIST

>> No.6128889

>>6128875
Sensible anon is sensible. I concur with him, even if, regrettably, my country lacks good examples of either genre

>> No.6128893

>>6128886
Ceschi is puerto rican

>> No.6128927

I certainly prefer listening to hiphop, but still: define "artistic merit."

>> No.6128942

>>6128781
>digs and jabs at others
>implying rap feuds are the entirety of rapping
At least listen to rap before you talk about it.

>> No.6128954

>>6128893
>no women
>no genderqueer lyricists
>binary gender pronouns in lyrics
>rapping about "taking your girl"

u dont define me, OPPRESSOR

>> No.6128991

>>6128781
you must not listen to a lot of hip/hop

>> No.6129090

>>6128781
Link us some good slam poetry. I guess I like the idea of it, but the examples I've heard are all shit. I'm ready to hear good slam poetry if you've got any.

I guess I already like Gil Scott Heron, but he's somewhere between hip-hop and slam poetry.

>> No.6129304

>>6128927
Define "define".

You're fucking cancer with your memes.

>> No.6129403

>>6128781

Slam poetry has no ambiguity and no mystery to it. It does all of your thinking for you.

It is literally a trumped-up monologue that people like to assign the title "poem" to because they feel that it lends some artistic gravitas to it.

You will also find that most of the people who love this shit have very little interest in poetry on the whole. Their interests where the poetic is concerned are political and they see poetry merely as a fitting stage to express this. Which is why so many of them come across as hyper-politicized sycophants. The medium itself is a lesser concern to them. They're interested in "slam poetry" simply because it's modish right now.

Nothing about it is poetic because nothing about it has any due concern for ambiguity. It's all didactic showmanship. That's it. I'm not even exaggerating here. If you don't believe me watch a few of them with this in mind. They actually try to do your thinking for you.

This shit is literally the worst. None of it is poetic. It's all boorish monologuing. Seriously. Avoid it.

>> No.6129422

Hip-hop by far

>> No.6129428

I have NEVER seen someone perform slam poetry where I haven't cringed at some point

>> No.6129451

>>6128781
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66_2PmAmiQg

>Implying

>> No.6129486

>>6128781
>true to its oral roots

I want to punch you.

>> No.6129534

Most slam poetry is just preaching

>> No.6129696

>>6129451
Thanks, Anon. I really enjoyed that.

>> No.6129709

Angsty suburban men shoot up schools when they reach a boiling point. Angsty suburban women perform slam poetry as they approach theirs and move to the city.

>> No.6129868

>>6129696

See >>6128849

>> No.6129892

Hip-hop. Coming up with lyrics that flow well takes talent and a sense of aesthetics. Slam poets don't even use meter.

>> No.6129923

Slam poetry is the most relevant form of literature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLthZDCO6Ww

>> No.6129928

>>6129923
As a white male, I'd rape that chick.

>> No.6129933

>>6128750
>dad rap

>> No.6129937

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7Vss4GYks

>> No.6129942

Vid related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh3f9Uhhdoo

I second the points made ITT about how slam 'poets' have little interest in poetry in general. They like to think they are discarding the rules and traditions of Western poetry but it's more like they are approaching poetry in a state of complete ignorance about said rules and traditions. Get an open-mic uni student to explain why his poetry is 'didactic' and he'll be at a loss

>> No.6129952
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6129952

70s/80s rock. Most other music sucks in general. Slam poetry is for retards and hip hop is for niggers

>> No.6129978

>>6129923
meh

>> No.6129980

>>6129952
fuck off kevin

>> No.6129981

>>6128747
probably hip hop IMO. slam poetry always looks like a bad gimmick.

>> No.6129988
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6129988

>>6129980
>implying I lurk here often

>> No.6129993

>>6129923
>a black man killed is not enough for it to be on the news
is she serious?

i don't get why everyone flock to the TM case, seems like the worst possible example of systematic racism

>> No.6129997

slam poetry about hip hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbkTKgEe9kU

>> No.6130021

>>6129952
you are literally a meme

>> No.6130048
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6130048

>>6129937
uhhhh

>> No.6130049

What distinguishes slam poetry from other poetry meant for recitation?

>> No.6130053

>>6130048
Your perceptions are imprisoning her. STOP PERCEIVING HER

>> No.6130065

>>6128747
This is the first tirm I heard about "slam poetry". This is the first entry on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5GxVJTqCNs

I am wordless.

>> No.6130074

>>6129937
why are all slam poetry people transgendered?

>> No.6130076

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGQH_0QM0uo

The more I watch slam poetry the more I think being a broken person is a requirement. Every one of them have to do with insecurities, either relating to past traumas, to skin colour, body shape, sexual orientation and so on. Makes you wonder how that happens. Do broken people seek shelter in slam poetry? Do competitions select for these topics?

>> No.6130081

poetry + music VS just poetry?

What do you think?

>> No.6130084

>>6129090
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7pseGUS14s

Michael Cirelli is great. Then again, I'm not sure how you guys are defining slam poetry. I don't love the idea of poetry slam "competitions," but there are some poets that give greater consideration to how their poems "perform," and some poets take inspiration from hip-hop rhyme schemes/language/etc. I wouldn't call Cirelli a slam poet, though he does mentor teen slam poets. I'd call him a poet who happens to be inspired by hip-hop and puts on a fantastic reading.

Short answer: >>6128875

>> No.6130086

>>6130076
>Do broken people seek shelter in slam poetry? Do competitions select for these topics?
uh yes duh

i mean they wouldn't call themselves broken but im pretty sure other than that they wouldn't even be in denial about this at all

>> No.6130097

Is Lalonde's Speak White slam poetry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJwte_0QLvU

>> No.6130113

>>6130084
Forgot something:
>>6128759
>>6128806

Your contributions to this board are less than worthless. Go back to /b/.

>> No.6130140

>>6130113
Pleb detected.
Go back to reddit with your god awful taste and misinformed, idiotic definition of what constitutes as poetry.

>> No.6130307

>>6130084

>I'd call him a poet who happens to be inspired by hip-hop and puts on a fantastic reading.

And at the end of his post the anon who is defending slam poetry can't even bring himself to call the example that he's putting up a "slam poet".

That's how obviously horrible slam poetry is.

>> No.6130348

>>6129923
i feel so guilty when i'm around people like this

i wish i cared this much about anything besides my own interests

i feel like a failure as a young adult

>> No.6130385

>>6129403
I agree with you, but rap lyrics are generally pretty straightforward and unambiguous too.

>> No.6130391

>>6130348

>i feel so guilty when i'm around people like this

"like this"? you mean like educated black people?

fucking racist

>> No.6130418

>>6130391
lol

i mean educated people who are extremely passionate about, and devoted to speaking out about, political causes

i mean read the news, i feel some type of way, but i have never given that much of a fuck.

maybe she's just playing it up, but it makes no difference to me, really.

the fact is the only thing i truly care about is my creative endeavors, and i feel like i'm a lesser person because of this.

>> No.6130422

>>6130418
*I read the news

>> No.6130429

>>6130385

There is a difference. Hip-hop is music. It knows exactly what it is and is evinced through the form.

Slam poetry is a glorified monologue pretending that it's anything but.

And that doesn't mean that it isn't culturally relevant or that every idea put forward by these young writers isn't worth considering. It just means that it's a monologue. Not a poem.

>> No.6130436

>>6130418

>this nervous wall of text to explain himself

i was fucking with you mr. crippling white guilt

>> No.6130441

>>6130436
it's not a wall. more of a railing.

>> No.6130445

>>6130436
no shit, i just felt like venting about my gay feelings because i have no friends

>> No.6130539

>>6128849
>Ceschi - Half Mast

Holy shit anon, thanks for that.

>> No.6130562

>>6130539
He's a fucking gem. Recently got out of prison, plays tiny, pay what you want house shows up and down the east coast. Check him out. Incredibly friendly, intelligent and talented guy. Highly recommend going and seeing him live, it's an experience.

>> No.6130605
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6130605

>>6130307
>>6130140
>god awful taste
>misinformed, idiotic definition of what constitutes as poetry

First, "constitutes as?" Nigger, improper usage is not helping your credibility as a wannabe /lit/ pundit.

Second, Michael Cirelli:
- several published collections, one a NY Times Book Review independent press bestseller
-published in Best American Poetry, New York Quarterly, Texas Review, etc, etc.
-Executive director of a massive literary arts organization for teens, which gives away thousands and thousands in scholarships, and for which he's been featured in Poets & Writers
-His work is taught at the college level, which is how I heard of him

What do you guys do, besides pen critiques peppered with 4chan speak about how things you hate for no reason that you can articulate fall neatly into specific categories that you also hate?

>> No.6130615

>>6129304
>to state or set forth the meaning of (a word, phrase, etc.)
Your turn.

>> No.6130623

>>6130562
Yeah, Ceschi is cool shit, anon. I met him back in the day when my buddy played on one of his records. He must have been in jail for a while -- that was like 5 years ago he got busted in a Santa suit with like 1000 lbs of weed.

>> No.6130664 [DELETED] 

>>6130605

>about how things you hate for no reason that you can articulate

>>6129403
>>6130429

I have gone into this already. Feel free to actually address these points if you manage to get over your frustration enough to stop itemizing things.

And it's pretty amusing that you'd spend all this time dickriding this guy who is so "inspired by hip-hop" and posting a Def Jam clip of his that you particularly love then actually using calling another poster a "Nigger" because he disagrees with you. Whilst you were trying to play semantics police no less, lol.

You are such a confused retard, kid. Seriously.

>> No.6130667

>>6130605

>about how things you hate for no reason that you can articulate

>>6129403
>>6130429 (You)

I have gone into this already. Feel free to actually address these points if you manage to get over your frustration enough to stop itemizing things.

And it's pretty amusing that you'd spend all this time dickriding this guy who is so "inspired by hip-hop" and posting a Def Jam clip of his that you particularly love then actually calling another poster a "Nigger" because he disagrees with you.

You are such a confused retard, kid. Seriously.

>> No.6130682
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6130682

>>6129923
i don't get why people like this stuff, do they just go through life without ever feeling? do they need a person to stand on a stage and holler until they learn what to think? none of this is insightful, most of it is just awkward wordplay

it rubs me the wrong way

>> No.6130693

>>6130623
Lol, yeah, and apparently he wrote hundreds of poems while he was in there. No idea what happened to them, wish he would've compiled them somewhere.

He's playing a show with Pat the Bunny in March, that's going to be great

>> No.6130698
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6130698

>>6130605
>he's a linguistic prescriptivist

>> No.6130707

>>6130615
No, you already have an idea how the word is defined. You're asking for the person to describe exactly which context they mean it in, because you acknowledge that it has a flexible meaning.

>> No.6130717
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6130717

>>6130605
>because he fulfills these criteria of respectability and hip hop doesn't it means I'm right and you're wrong lalalalala not listening go away I won

>> No.6130731

>>6130707
I have no idea how OP, or anyone else ITT, defines 'art,' that's exactly why I ask. I've read more definitions of the word than I can recall, and the opinions of likely more people who don't even have a definition, and all of them are quick to argue about art despite not knowing or caring about how others define it or how they define it themselves. It's impossible to discuss something under those conditions. Thus, "define 'art'."

>> No.6130737

>>6130667
EASY THERE. Did I even respond to you? You'll notice that my original post wasn't a response to either of those two posts that you're highlighting there. I was largely referring to my tripcoded friend over there who loves to state his pigheaded black-and-white view of anything and everything, offer no evidence to support his opinion, attack people, and jump ship when he gets questioned.

I'm glad you were amused by the "nigger" thing, but dickriding? Anon asked for "good slam poetry." I linked some. Anyway, while I wasn't planning on pointing out the holes in your argument, since I respect that you at least bother to try and make one, but I'll get on that then if you want.

>> No.6130751

>>6130731
I literally joined this thread to respond to you two posts ago. I haven't read anything else.

>> No.6130756

>>6130717
Nah, not my intention. Please, read and think: these threads are everywhere on here. Which is "better?" This or That? Then cue shitposts about why This sucks and That is great. Or how everything that I consider to be That is inherently lesser than This. Why? Because This is better and That is for SJW faggots.

One might expect /lit/ to be somewhat sensitive to the possibilities of different interpretations, to the concept that not everything can be so easily placed into either This or That, to the idea that the study/critique of literature is more nuanced than that.

I posted a poet whom I know to be respected by professors and publications whom I value and respect. And anons say, "well, it looks like This, so it sucks, and I'm done."

Why should that opinion be worth anything, seriously?

>> No.6130757

>>6130605
>>6130737
I didn't jump ship so much as decided not to reply because you're actually literally retarded. You think being published gives someone credibility when even I've been published in journals you've heard of. Nice "rebuttal."

Slam poetry is bastardized. I'd hardly go as far as calling this guy a poet. Put him next to any "oral" greek poet and he'd look like a clown, just like every other slam poet.

Also, to constitute litetally means to be a part of. Retard.

>> No.6130762

>>6130737

>but dickriding?

By embarrassing degrees, yes.

All you did in that post was defend him by citing a list of his industry achievements and habits. This is literally the equivalent of an angry fan of a pop artist citing their grammy wins and billboard rankings in support of them. You had nothing to actually say on any of this. You just let commercial index form the bedrock of your reasoning like a complete clown.

>> No.6130763

>>6130737
Learn what a trip is, by the way.

>> No.6130779

>>6130757
>>6130763
Read this: >>6130756
Oh, and we're only judging contemporary poetry based on how a poet "looks" next to "any 'oral' greek poet?" Thank you for making my point in >>6130756 for me.

"to be a part of"... as.

>> No.6131111
File: 463 KB, 651x1441, rock music.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6131111

>>6129952

>> No.6131114

>>6128747
Hiphop by a fucking mile. It's at least a relatively new take on pop music, whereas slam poetry is an awful abortion of an offspring of spoken word

>> No.6131239

>>6129997
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iRRO1PMpJyY

>> No.6131321

>>6129937

>that Uruk-hai has touched breasts
>you never will

Put me out of my misery, please.

>> No.6131338

>>6131111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcmylxQ0ma4

>> No.6131342

>>6131114
>relatively new
>pop music

>> No.6131386

>>6131321

losing the lord of the rings smack talk would be the first step there m8

but could you image being her dad watching that. feeling secretly disappointed with her proud degeneracy while also secretly agreeing with everything she was saying about how awesome tits are. it would be a conflicting clusterfuck of emotions.

>> No.6131391
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6131391

>>6129937
"NOTE: Ollie uses gender neutral pronouns (they/them/their). We encourage discussion in the comments, but please respect Ollie's right to correct gender and gender expression when referring to them."

I just want it all to end /lit/

>> No.6131398

>>6131338

holy shit

>> No.6131408

one of the worst things upworthy is responsible is making these shitty videos spread everywhere, i've had to sit through 'heart warming' 'thought provoking' ted talk lite spoken word videos in class bc of them

has that ocd spoken word guy that went around a bit ago been posted? the one who turned out to abuse his girlfriend/s an be shitty in other ways as well iirc, very heart warming

>> No.6131419

so

much

cringe

>> No.6131453

>>6131391

>they

I am not using a fucking pluralism to refer to a single person. This is where I draw the line.

>> No.6131481

>>6131408
oh my god I fucking hate that guy

>> No.6131494

>>6131481
>ocd spoken word guy
wait not neil hilborn? I meant another writer dude w/ ocd (greg something?), I've heard unsettling things about the former as well but google didn't turn anything up to confirm right at the top so maybe I got mixed up

I hate both of their work anyway
I think I hate all spoken word
why do they have to read/speak that way?
have no innovations been made in spoken word in like 40 years

I also hate that if I said that irl I would look heartless and mean, because I don't find manipulative schlock touching or compelling.

>> No.6131495

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvruwi211fU

Good example of actually good spoken word /poetry/ imo, not this >>6129403 kind of shit.

>> No.6131499

>>6131495
i mad it 1:10 in...not as bad as the rest, but I can't take the 'spoken word' rhythms (that are needed bc the poem isn't compelling enough spoken plainly/read, in most cases)

>> No.6131501

>>6130348
I'm the reverse, I only feel disdain

maybe it comes with living in a country filled with retarded ideologues

>> No.6131505

Slam poetry sucks because it's just not entertaining

>> No.6131512

>>6131501
I agree with the 49 seconds of that video/probably the rest of it, but this is the last format I want to hear anyone in

>>6130348

even the people who seem really 'well informed' or whatever only know a sliver of the terrible shit that happens in the world because it's that bad for a lot of people and there's a line of some sort between being informed and caring and getting burnt out on the shittiness of the world
I mean if you're an American and didn't know about the Martin case then you should feel bad, but you don't have to know and be 'passionate' about every tragedy. However if you care about your 'art' or whatever that means you should be curious about the world and what's going on and the culture and the moment and history and a million other things outside of your bubble.

>> No.6131513

>>6131495

this didn't make me cringe at all

and I can't tell if it is just because he was a man and it wasn't about rape or oppression, or because it was alright

>> No.6131518

>>6131513
from the title, pretty sure it was 'about' oppression dummy, but be more transparent

>> No.6131521

>>6131513
>man
>not about rape or oppression

Well it has the main two categories already going for it

>> No.6131524

Literally nobody cares about anyone else's oppression, except for the people waiting for their turn to talk about their oppression. It's fight club but real >inb4 lol fight club sux

>> No.6131528

This guy is pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU

>> No.6131537

>>6131524
>I don't care about anyone else, so everyone else saying they care is faking it. Everyone is as shitty as me.

>> No.6131546

again, proof

men are better at everything

women are dumb

>> No.6131548

>>6128747
Rap.

>> No.6131577

>>6131546

>that one sperg who finds any chance he can to claim the achievements of other men

played out brah

>> No.6131626 [SPOILER] 
File: 126 KB, 783x960, 1423730167298.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6131626

>>6131453
they crossed the line long ago, anon

>> No.6131743

Though I'm not a fan, hip hop is significantly better. Neither of them have any thing interesting to say though.

>> No.6131744

>>6131546

>better

maybe according to other men

>> No.6132612

>>6128781
#rekt

>> No.6132780

From what I've seen so far slam poetry is basically just a short, out-of-context, somewhat musically/theatrically executed rant.

>> No.6132817

>>6128747

hip hop by a million miles

slam poetry is more of the "slam" when the fat whale performing falls over on the stage than the "poetry" the whale speaks, if you can even call it that

>> No.6132819

>>6130065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4m3AJamQYM

here's another fun whale slam

>> No.6132825

>>6131408
>the one who turned out to abuse his girlfriend/s
do you mean abuse or do you mean overblown meanness

>> No.6132838

>itt: white boys
hip hop is shit. get over your wangsterpleb ideology

>> No.6132852

While far from being poetic, I do have to admit George Watsky can do some impressive things with words, hence with the medium of spoken work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GvTLfV8fls

>> No.6132855

>>6132852
word*
I tried. ):

>> No.6132883

>>6132852
look mom, a famous jew with mediocre skills

>> No.6132908

>>6132883
since when is watsky considered famous

>> No.6133166

>>6132825
abuse
first google result: http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-11-14/on-the-abuse-and-sexual-allegations-against-oprahs-book-club-author-gregory-sherl/

>> No.6133173

>>6132852
>>6132908
I have acquaintances who are fangirls of his but they fangirl a lot of shitty youtube people, that's a whole other thing.

>> No.6133541

>>6133173
He seems to be a rapper and a slam poet, I never really heared him mentioned in any rap discussion though, so I figured he isn't famous outside of the american slam scene.

>> No.6133578

>>6128750
>hip hop, but mostly the stuff from the golden era, not any of the contemporary music industry shit

would you like to share your interpretations of that Eyedea lyrics you fucking snob cunt

>> No.6133690

>>6128758
Ima have your family dressed in black

>> No.6133718

>>6128747
Hip-hop. Before the pirate party and free culture of today, hip-hoppers were on the frontier.

But slam poetry isn't bad. I think it's an important element of poetry reclaimed, the oral element. In many ways hip-hop and slam poetry are interrelated, many artists straddle the line.

>> No.6133777

>>6128954
Ironic shit posting is still shit posting