German Thread

[Anonymous No.6114258]

Looks like we didn't have a german thread in a long time. Rules are as usual: we'll answer all questions that people might have and help as much as possible and in exchange our thread won't get deleted just because we write in German to each other.

So, what do you want to know? Need some help with our language? Or want some recommendations?

Und an die Deutschen: Was lest ihr so im Moment? Wie geht's mit der Schreiberei voran? Lust, was zu posten?

[Anonymous No.6114290]

How do I start with Göethe? I'm mainly interested on his aesthetics, but I'll take anything.

Also, Warum ist Deutsch so schwer?

[Anonymous No.6114297]

>>6114258
bit of a mouth-breather of merky is

still <3

[Anonymous No.6114314]

>>6114258
>Looks like we didn't have a german thread in a long time.

haha this is such a german way of writing english.

in any case the last german book I read was some kafka I think. sbeen a while, I'm learning French now instead. Walk in the park

[Anonymous No.6114317]

>>6114297
Argh, ich würd gern etwas posten aber es ist so banal. :<

[Anonymous No.6114318]

>>6114290
Try Faust. German can be hard but ita pretty logical once you get the hang of it

[Anonymous No.6114342]

>>6114290
sorrows of young werther is good entry level but be warned that it's pretty emo.

[Anonymous No.6114343]

>>6114317
Ach was, immer her damit. Musst ja nicht deinen Namen darunter setzen.

[Anonymous No.6114347]

>>6114314
Would "we haven't had" have been better?

[Anonymous No.6114375]

Hello my Friends.
Are you finally ready to acknowledge the greatest German writer of the 20th century?
Do you disagree? Don't say Mann or Kafka please, you're better than that guys.

[Anonymous No.6114406]

>>6114290
Wilhelm Meisters Lehrjahre might be a decent start, it's plot is not too complex and it is extremely pleasant to read...based Wolfgang had an amazing command of the German Language.
I would not recommend starting off by reading Faust, it is very dense and can bequite confusing at times as there are a lot of archaic turns of phrase and tons of cryptic references.

If you are a classically educated genius however, by all means read it. Many still consider it the pinnacle of german Literature.

[Anonymous No.6114417]

>>6114375
Better than Grass, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.6114424]

Ich hatte eins Jahr von Deutsch im Universität

[Anonymous No.6114436]

>>6114424
Ein Jahr ist leider nicht viel. Willst du weiter Deutsch lernen?

[Anonymous No.6114568]

>>6114258
Hi, ich studiere jetzt in Deutschland und möchte gerne Deutsche perfektieren. Ich habe einige Bücher, z.B. etwas von Faust, Kafka, Mann, Fontane, Zweig, Schiller und mehr aber im Moment lese ich Homo Faber.

Welche Bücher soll ich für besser Verständnis und Gewalt die Deutsche Sprache lesen? Wie kann ich mit Mann beginnen? Welche Autoren sind gut für Eingang zur Deutsche Philosophie?

ps. Ist meine schriftliche Deutsch okay?

[Anonymous No.6114657]

>>6114568
Ich lerne Deutsch, und ich gehe wohnen im Leipzig im September. Wie schwer es ist anpassen? Kommst du aus Amerika?

[Anonymous No.6114662]

>>6114568
Hi, ich studiere jetzt in Deutschland und möchte gerne mein Deutsch perfektionieren. Ich habe einige Bücher, z.B. etwas von Faust, Kafka, Mann, Fontane, Zweig, Schiller und mehr, im Moment lese ich Homo Faber.

Welche Bücher soll ich für ein besses Verständnis und Beherrschung der deutschen Sprache lesen? Wie kann ich mit Mann beginnen? Welche Autoren sind geeignet für den Einstieg in die Deutsche Philosophie?

ps: Ist mein schriftliches Deutsch in Ordnung?

Ja, ist es.

[Anonymous No.6114677]

>>6114258
Lese zur Zeit Schopenhauer, (aphorismen zur Weisheit, und hab mir letzte Woche auch die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung). Bin erst seit heute auf /lit/ ,Plane aber länger hier zu bleiben. Ist es normal, dass hier so viel Polemik herrscht? Und kommen Deutsche threads häufiger vor? Empfinde es als ziemlich schwierig, mich in englisch literarisch auszudrücken.
Auch: wie arbeitet ihr Bücher durch? Ich hab als Beispiel jetzt aphorismen zur Weisheit und strebe danach, es vollkommen zu verstehen. Lese also, während ich mir Notizen dazu mache. Wenn ich ein Kapitel durch habe schreibe ich eine Zusammenfassung dazu. Kommt mir aber so vor, als käme ich gar nicht vorwärts. Bin erst auf Seite 30 (sitze seit 2 Wochen dran) und es kommt fast jeden Tag ein neues Buch ins Haus. Bitte um Erfahrungen.
Und entschuldigt dieses schlampige Deutsch, sitze am Handy , die Tastatur tut was sie will und Übersicht über den Text hat man auch nicht.

Best regards

[Anonymous No.6114700]

>>6114568
It is intelligible, but needs a lot of work..I won't be too german here and list your mistakes, just read a couple books and it should improve greatly.
From your list, I'd recommend Zweig and Mann..especially Zweig writes some marvellous prose.

To start off with Mann, have a go at Felix Krull..it's not too long and very funny at times.

[Anonymous No.6114722]

.

>>6114568
It's okay, but it's not good at all.
You're using the prepositions wrong sometimes or leave them out and you have to work on the declination and conjugation.

[Anonymous No.6114787]

>>6114406
Thanks m8. I'll be reading a Spanish translation though...

[Anonymous No.6114789]

>>6114657
It wasn't difficult for me but then again, I'm from a Nordic country and we have many cultural similarities. Just make some German friends early and it's no problem. I'm near Köln so I don't know how the Leipzig area is.

>>6114662
Danke.

>>6114700
Danke, ich glaube Schachnovelle von Zweig mein nächstes Projekt wird. Ich versuche auch mehr zu schreiben.

>>6114722
Ja, das was meine Frage. Ist es 'okay'? Ich glaube nicht mein Schriftliches Deutsch perfekt ist. Ich habe nicht genug geübt. Die Problem mit Deutsch (für mich) ist wann (und welche/wo) man diese Präpositionen benutzen soll, und die Stellung der Verben.

[Anonymous No.6114794]

>>6114258
As a Canadian, I'd like to study abroad in Berlin.
I've already been there and really enjoy the ambiance, would I still miss a lot from Germany by being in the capital?

[Anonymous No.6114798]

Zurzeit lese ich Heinrich von Kleist. Nämlich seine sämtliche Erzählungen und seine Dramen, Prinz Friedrich von Homburg und Penthesilea.

Wunderschönes Deutsch. So gut wie Kafka.

[Anonymous No.6114812]

Zurzeit lese ich überwiegend Sachliteratur über Buddhistische Philosophie und Positive Psychologie...

Ich wollte unbedingt wieder mal ein Roman lesen, leider fehlt mir die Konzentration.

[Anonymous No.6114819]

>>6114347
>seems we aint had no Dutchman's thread in nowhiles
is proper English

[Anonymous No.6114826]

Would you agree that anyone that claims to understand Philosophers like Heidegger, but haven't read their writings in the original language, are making fools of themselves?

[Anonymous No.6114837]

>>6114826
In a case like Heidegger? Probably. I don't see how his terms translate well.

[Anonymous No.6114839]

>>6114794
If you'll just stay in Berlin, yes.
Just think about our history: the first time Germany really united was 1871, so before '71, every region had its own culture, laws and particularly religion. Monuments and castles and other buildings didn't focus in one city. Same thing from 1949-1990, as we used to have two capitals.

[Anonymous No.6114841]

>>6114258
Caught

[Anonymous No.6114843]

http://pastebin.com/H65qrAf6

[Anonymous No.6114846]

Ya

[Anonymous No.6114850]

Merkelin'

[Anonymous No.6114856]

>>6114837
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.6114859]

>>6114837
They don't. Usually we use the original german terminology (dasein, Geworfenheit...). Of course it helps if you know some German but what are you gonna do.

Same thing happens with the greeks btw, with the endless philologist and translators circlejerk

[Anonymous No.6114863]

>>6114850
>You'll never motorboat those and have you debts condoned

[Anonymous No.6114884]

>>6114258

I will be doing a doctorate in Erlangen in a few months, how should I go about learning German? I currently using an app, but it is not comprehensive.

[Anonymous No.6114946]

>>6114789
Are you going to uni or something and met people there? I'm going to need to get a job or something when I go in order to actually be able to meet people.

[Anonymous No.6115079]

>>6114884
for starters get a book like tangram 1. also listen to music and watch films and tv in german (with subtitles obviously) to get a feeling for the language.

[Anonymous No.6115323]

Did anyone here learn German with a hardcore grammar/textbook method?

I took an awful university class that was entirely conversation and "learn by doing" and learned nothing whatsoever. I want a big clunky fucking book.

[Anonymous No.6115795]

>>6114946
I'm in a university here but most of the germans I meet are through Wohngemeinschaft or partying. It's not really hard for me to talk to strangers and usually germans take time to listen to me and correct me.

>>6114884
Watch german dub/sub shows on Netflix.de, listen to Deutschlandfunk and read progressively harder german books/texts. It's been working very well for me.

[Anonymous No.6115811]

>>6114798
Mein Neger..which did you like best so far?
I haven't read a lot of Kleist,but I got my hands on his collected novellas recently - Michael Kohlhaas is absolutely world class (esp.the first half), and the Engagement in St. Domingo was brilliant as well.

>>6114789
Good choice...if you happen to enjoy Zweig, take a look at his Autobiography "Die Welt von Gestern"...absolutely required reading if you wish to understand what Old Europe was about and how much was lost in just a few years of Stahlgewitter...

( Yes I'm >>6114375 - anybody care to challenge me? )

[Anonymous No.6115884]

Thoughts on hermann broch?

[Anonymous No.6115897]

>>6115811
Yeah, I just remembered that I started it, although translated. But it's in my home country so I might just get it in German and continue to read it in the original. I felt like the text of the book had a bitter or sharp quality to it, probably because you know how he spent his last days. You can almost feel the feeling of dread which he wrote this book with.

[Anonymous No.6115975]

Thiis might sound like a stupid question, but how can i learn german fast? i already speak Italian and arabic cause i come from a bilingual family, and obviously english, so i think it wont be that hard, or atleast i hope so

[Anonymous No.6116087]

>>6114375
I sure as hell acknowledge Böll as the most high, Köppen Maybe

[Anonymous No.6116141]

>>6115323
i used one of the old fsi books which was absolutely massive and drier than a pub with no beer. it was hard going and incredibly demotivating but i survived in bremen just fine. you shouldn't have to suffer like i did. nowadays, there are better resources out there.

[Anonymous No.6116249]

>>6114794
Define 'a lot'.

[Anonymous No.6116256]

>>6114258
I live in a third world country and I want to get an scholarship over there for a master degree. What are my chances?.

[Anonymous No.6116278]

>>6116256
If you have slanted eyes: Pretty fucking high.
Otherwise, eh, you could try.

[Anonymous No.6116283]

>>6116278
I am from a latin america country, Nicaragua.

[Anonymous No.6116297]

I'm only using Duolingo at the moment to learn German and I'm having a lot of trouble remembering articles (both definite and indefinite). Ein and Eine makes sense in applying to masculine and feminine nouns but I cannot get a grasp on einen and einer. Any tips for this or is it just memorizing them?

My other question is nicht and kein, do they match to idea/abstract and object respectively? Example: Ich kenne dem Vogel nicht (negating knowing a bird) and Ich habe keine Freundin (negating possession of gf and having feels).

[Anonymous No.6116481]

>>6114568
Not sure if troll, but anyway...

Homo Faber ist Müll. Eines der wenigen Bücher, welche ich nie fertig gelesen habe. In Anbetracht deines höchst fehlerhaften Deutsches empfehle ich dir, erst einmal einfache Bücher zu lesen, damit du die Basis erlernst.
Lese zum Beispiel die deutsche Übersetzung der Eon Colfer Bücher. Mit deinen Deutschkenntnissen dürfte dies immer noch Herausforderung genug sein.

[Anonymous No.6116495]

>>6116256
>>6116283
Not sure about Nicaragua but the university I'm getting my bachelors degree at, in Brazil, has connections with german universities. Plenty of people go to Germany to get their masters.

I mean, "plenty" amongst the two or three sorry losers who graduate in German studies every year. I'm on my fourth semester and there are exactly 6 people in most classes.

[Anonymous No.6116499]

>>6116297
>einen and einer
Those are, respectively, the accusative for masculine ein and dative for eine, as far as I know.

Someone with better german will probably reply anyway.

[Anonymous No.6116547]

>>6116495
Nope, we don't have that kind of privileges. My major is on Chemica Engineering.

[Anonymous No.6116627]

>>6115811
Dude, for me it was all about Der Findling. It's short and sweet and fucking amazing. I've heard it was one of Kafka's favorite short stories, and it's one of the most enduring portraits of evil I've ever read.

I'm dying to read Kohlhaas, though. Just the first sentence alone is the best thing ever.

[Anonymous No.6118298]

>>6116087
>Koeppen

Marcel please go...you've been dead a while now

[Anonymous No.6118308]

>>6116283
quite a lot of south americans come over.
be excellent.

[Anonymous No.6118343]

>>6114657

i'm an american that has been living in stuttgart since december. it's not really hard to adjust at all. most people won't bother you in every day life. bring house shoes

[Anonymous No.6118390]

>>6118343
>house shoes
how come?

[Anonymous No.6118411]

>>6118298
Did you know Marcel for years collected money from other writers and put that on a bank account so that Koeppen could survive and write? There would have been no Trilogie des Scheiterns without that

[Anonymous No.6118586]

>>6116297
>>6116499
Korrekt.

>dative for eine
which is feminine - just to clarify

there's four grammatical cases in german. i think there's no point in memorising every single article / case combo, you'll get a feeling for it through immersion and using the language yourself over time. can't hurt to familiarise yourself a little with them though. i use duolingo to learn spanish and while it's great, pretty much all immersion based language acquisition software is lacking in the grammar department

>My other question is nicht and kein, do they match to idea/abstract and object respectively? Example: Ich kenne dem Vogel nicht (negating knowing a bird) and Ich habe keine Freundin (negating possession of gf and having feels).
Uh, not quite sure what you mean there

should be "den Vogel", 4th case (accusative). couldn't even explain why, but i'm a native speaker so i'm certain.


>>6118390
not sure if that's he meant but in germany (and austria, and lots of other parts of europe) you usually don't wear your shoes when you're in someones private home. either you wear house shoes or you just walk around in your socks. that may sound weird to you if you're from an area where people leave their shoes on in private places, but rest assured keeping them on sounds as weird to me as taking them off sounds to you. many a debate has been had about this. it's just a cultural thing really.

[Anonymous No.6118608]

>>6114677
Also nach meinem Gefühl sind hier ca 50% Shitposting, 30% philosophiebattles, 15% YA/genre fiction hate und 5% wirklich gute Diskussionen. Man bekommt aber ein Gefühl dafür wo nur Ulysses/Pynchon-memes umherfliegen und wo nicht. Hab schon gute Lektüreempfehlungen hier gefunden. Und es gibt einfach keine Alternative für Diskussionen "anspruchsvollerer" Literatur.

[Anonymous No.6118623]

>>6116481
Try finding an author that really gets you interested in his work. I couldn't stand reading genrefiction for the sake of learning a language. Although I won't recommend to start with Arno Schmidt, but there are plenty german authors with relatively simple prose. But well, anybody has to find his own strategy.

[Anonymous No.6118872]

>>6118411
I did not - but I am not surprised, Ranicki was a great guy all around, case in point :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFCSHEfQvY4

[Anonymous No.6118876]

Just the thread I was looking for. I have been learning German for years, even had some courses in German at the university, but I didn't have the opportunity to speak it since then, and I fear that my knowledge is deteriorating swiftly. To avoid this I decided to force myself to read regularly in German.

What books would you suggest?

[Anonymous No.6118883]

Dietmar Dath, y'all

>>6114789
For some reason I'm reading your post in the voice of Dennis Mascarenas

[Anonymous No.6118889]

>>6118872
>Das Buch ist von Anfang an von ungewöhnlicher Zartheit, DAS ENTGEHT IHNEN FRAU LÖFFLER

and then the fight starts, awesome! thanks

>SIE MISSVERSTEHEN JEEEEDEN SATZ

[Anonymous No.6118903]

>>6118883
I dislike Dath immensely, I've tried getting into Abschaffung der Arten but it was super pretentious, he's trying to give everything a scientific/SF touch by reading stuff on Wikipedia, but it's clear he doesn't understand it - quasi-instant long-distance communication using pheromones, for example, doesn't work at all, since pheromones don't have quantum entanglement

[Anonymous No.6118924]

I was taught German in highschool, but it was pretty horrible (shit country). Since I finished my education I began to learn German on my own. Everybody has to find their own method, but for those who played video games (particularly adventure games) here is a site that I recommend.
http://learnoutlive.com/learn-german-with-adventure-games/
There are some classic point and click games here (like Lucasarts stuff from the 90's) with complete German dubbing and subtitles. Also you can pause anytime which helps alot with making notes. I just finished Day of the Tentacle and I must say, the German voiceactors did a great job.

Also: could somebody recommend me a site wich offers German subtitles for movies. Subscene and Openstubtitles are really lacklustre in this regard.

[Anonymous No.6118928]

>>6118876
well, what do you usually enjoy reading?

my personal favourite is michael köhlmeier. wonky looking guy; does a lot of novels in a modern setting too but what i like most are his reinterpretations of old myths (no freaky super-modern revamps, he just tells the story as-is in a language that's more comprehensible to a current audience than the original, and he adds bit of info and anectodes from other stories) he wrote a historical novel about the life of jesus, nice little book, and a TV series where he tells ancient greek stories

http://www.br-online.de/podcast/video-download/ard-alpha/mp3-download-podcast-mythen-michael-koehlmeier.shtml

>>6118889
i love ranicki. best jew in the whole nation

[Anonymous No.6118969]

>>6118928
I'm open to all suggestions, though I would prefer to keep away from works that are too artistic and/or philosophical. I'm looking for quality fiction, I guess.

[Anonymous No.6118974]

What makes Faust special?

[Anonymous No.6118983]

>>6118928
>i love ranicki. best jew in the whole nation
Have you read "Mein Leben"? I liked it very much, shows him in a completely different light, first half is World War Two, second half is hanging out with German writers

[Anonymous No.6119043]

>>6118903
I like it when it leaps into the more bizarre parts, also his imagery is nice, if you have a fable for that. His concept of masculinity and femininity are also basic but nicely integrated in his concept of growing individualism which is, for me , the core point of the book. The rest is pretentious but proofs a great amount of imaginative power which is very valuable. I would value it over actual informative wisdom, he binds his creativeness with basic scientific principles and works it out in the ductus of his writing to give an expression of the technization of a future world. It´s not that complex if you get down to the basic structure I guess but I always thought I don´t get everything and I guess this is the point. Stating that there will be concepts in the future the present people won´t understand. It´s a pity he does combine his view of an animalized world with the concept of a Fable only because he want them to be an allegory for humans.. I think if he spends so much effort on describing new ways to handle everything he could have chosen to evolve his view beyond the borders of human understanding, in this case he would be more free, but he doesn´t seem to understand that. Aaaah evolution is the next point of his novel but I won´t talk about this because I don´t understand his points fully but I think he´s trying to synthesize science with allegory...in my case it worked because I am no expert in the first and I like the second. I can understand that someone does not like this book. I normally can´t stand people trying to overstate everything, but in his case I liked it because of the new associations it gave me (ceramic lifeforms piling up in an overgrowing jungle environment etc.).

[Anonymous No.6119051]

>>6119043
That is a really good post, thank you very much for your opinion! I think I understand now why people might like him.

>Stating that there will be concepts in the future the present people won´t understand

Have you read Stanislaw Lem? It's often about exactly that, the inability of mankind to understand or even notice alien life

[Anonymous No.6119082]

>>6119051
No I haven´t read him, normally I don´t read Sci/fi.
This sounds interesting do you care to give a recommendation. I´ll include it on my reading list and if I have time I will read it.

[Anonymous No.6119129]

>>6116481
It's not too bad, a bit insufferable main character but I like how he sometimes mentions technical terms. It's a good addition to my vocabulary.

Thanks for the recommendation but I'm gonna keep at it with the tougher literature. I'm reading to challenge myself and learn tougher sentence structuring, not to escape into a fantasy world.

[Anonymous No.6119167]

>>6116481
ich wette der typ der das gedicht über den lethenfluss geschrieben hat. du woarme sau.

[Anonymous No.6119186]

>>6119082
I guess most people recommend Solaris, here's a brief description:

Guy is on a hovering research station on planet Solaris, a planet that is covered by a very strange sea, the station hovers close to the sea. The sea or the planet themselves may be one organism because the sea reacts to external stimuli, but there is never any real contact made, it just copies gliders etc., people are never sure whether it actually is an organism. Then "ghosts"/simulacra appear to the crew on the station, which may or may not have been sent by the sea or the planet, ghosts of painful past memories.

There's also His Master's Voice, which is very similar to Sagan's Contact but much more pessimistic. Where in Contact they eventually decipher and build a machine, in HMV it's never even really revealed whether the signal they received is an actual signal or whether it's just a strange phenomenon by some yet unknown physical effect. They try to create molecules based on the message's form and they succeed in creating some very strange things, but it is unclear whether that was the intention of the message. The message is never deciphered and there is never any explanation whether it actually was an alien message.

The impossibility of understanding of alien species is a common theme in Lem's novels.

[Anonymous No.6119647]

>>6118586
oh, well thanks for the elaboration, that's not something I would have known. Do you take them off before you come in or just after?

[Anonymous No.6119667]

>>6119647
after. though if you take them off before that'd be pretty hilarious.

[Anonymous No.6119724]

>>6119186
I´ve seen the ovie to the first one, with the actor who is the crush of all mums. I think I´ll go for the second one. Also I will look into "Transfer" it sounds interesting given that the wikipedia article is correct.

[Anonymous No.6120269]

>>6114789
>und die Stellung der Verben
MASTER RACE REPORTING IN
Im Prinzip folgt die Stellung des Verbs einem einfachen Schema:
Im Hauptsatz (HS) steht das Prädikat an zweiter Stelle. Im Nebensatz (NS) steht das Prädikat an letzter Stelle. Nebensätze werden übrigens von nebenordnenden Konjunktionen eingeleitet. Allerdings gibt es mehrteilige Prädikate. Für einen HS bedeutet das, dass nicht nur ein Prädikat an zweiter Stelle steht, sondern der dazugehörige Teil am Ende des Hauptsatzes steht. Beim NS hat man einfach eine lange Reihe am Ende. Wann treten mehrstellige Prädikate auf? Bei der Verwendung von Hilfszeitwörtern, Tempusbildung, Konjunktivbildung etc.

Was ist die zweite Stelle? Das ist manchmal gar nicht so einfach zu ermitteln. Wenn das Subjekt des Satzes nur ein Name ist, kann die zweite Stelle einfach das zweite Wort sein. Manchmal dient ein Nebensatz als erstes Satzglied und wiederum in anderen Fällen hat man ein ziemlich langes Satzglied als erste Stelle. Einen Muttersprachler würde man raten, den Satz umzuformen, damit er nachvollziehen kann, was Satzglieder im Satz sind.

Habe ich alle Fälle angesprochen? Nein, bei Fragestellungen verhält es sich anders, deckt sich aber mit dem Englischen. Dann gibt es noch Infinitivgruppen. Der Infinitiv ist zwar kein Prädikat, weil das Prädikat eine finite Verbform ist. Jedoch kann man den Infinitiv nicht unbedingt vom Indikativ unterscheiden, insbesondere wenn man nicht in der Grammatik sattelfest ist. Zudem gibt es weitere Ausnahmen.

[Anonymous No.6120379]

>>6114406
>tfw not a classically educated genius

What classical literature should I read in order to be able to enjoy Faust to its fullest?

[Anonymous No.6120437]

>>6116481
Ich muss doch sehr bitten!
Homo Faber als Müll darzustellen, wäre so töricht wie Mein Kampf zu loben

[Anonymous No.6120440]

>>6116481
>Homo Faber ist Müll.
It's not on the same level as Stiller or Mein Name sei Gantenbein, but I still found it to be pretty enjoyable. The exploration of identity that is at the centre of Frischs work is fascinating and his characters are usually very believable and have a good amount of depth to them. If you simply find Frischs work boring then that's fine, but if you actually believe that Homo Faber is a bad book, then it can only mean that you didn't give it a fair chance.