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/lit/ - Literature

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6072374 No.6072374 [Reply] [Original]

Is it true you aren't allowed to discuss right wing authors on this board? I want to learn about some right wing writers who aren't Rand or Ditko.

>> No.6072379

/lit/ has seen a huge influx of /pol/tards who troll with these assholes, if you want to know more about Evola, check

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=evola

>> No.6072383

>>6072379
That's what happens when you ruin the containment board

>> No.6072388

Just repost your thread when a janitor is so blatantly in the wrong. I'm guessing the faggots can't repeatedly delete the same thread without reporting to actual mods, because they usually don't.

>> No.6072399

That was ages ago when /lit/ was being monitored (not sure if janitor or mod?) by someone very heavy handed. It was REALLY bad sometimes.

Nowadays it's pretty much just don't spam NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER, and you're fine. Lousy non-/lit/ threads still go down eventually but if you're legitimately discussing books/political philosophy, I'd be surprised if you got deleted or banned.

Thank god /pol/ won and defeated the pussy leftists and their hugbox thoughtcrime censoring.

>> No.6072406

>>6072399
Yea, I would think a board dedicated to the written word would be the most vehemently against censorship, but you know libs are retarded

>> No.6072408

>>6072374
the post in that image isn't about literature, it's about philosophy. fair ban

>> No.6072410

>>6072406
Most of us here are leftists, not libs. Besides, fascists and most monarchies did not allow for freedom of speech.

>> No.6072429

>>6072406

leave the libtard bullshit at the door. we just don't want /pol/tards shitposting about muh women and muh holocaust denial

>> No.6072458

Heinlein, Junger and Montherlant, but reading authors mainly for political message is like using your brain for a toilet, you probably won't even appreciate any of the good qualities of what you're reading.

>> No.6072584

Any discussion of literature that opposes leftist ideas considered shitposting or trolling.

>> No.6072593

>>6072584
That's not true, I've brought up Giovanni Gentile several times and no one accused me of shitposting or trolling.

The problem is, overtly rightest literature common IS shitposting or trolling because shitposters and trolls know they can get a rise with it. Take EvolaKid, for instance, he does nothing but shitpost and troll. That doesn't mean everyone who posts Evola threads is a shitposter or a troll, merely that shitposters and trolls like to post Evola threads.

>> No.6072603

>>6072593
You're a terrible poster

>> No.6072608

>>6072603
I disagree, "ΟΥΤΙΣ" is right, Evola and consorts are often brought out to troll people

>> No.6072610

>>6072608
He's right but he's a terrible poster and his threads are cancer

>> No.6072623

>>6072610
Well that may be, I don't really pay attention to trip/namefags, they're generally terrible

>> No.6072636

>>6072584
Honestly because it is. No one who isn't a backwards ass retard believes in right wing reactionary retardation. Literally anyone who actually studies literature is a leftist.

>> No.6072690

>>6072636
Since the right-wing thinkers themselves are generally well read, I have to disagree. Your post is pure ideology.

>> No.6072699

>>6072584
The problem isn't being conservative. There's plenty of respectable conservative people and opinions around. The problem is that most of "conservatives" on /lit/ are just plebs from /pol/ coming to this board in some weird autistic way to try to proselytize.

>> No.6072727
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6072727

>>6072636
>Literally anyone who actually studies literature is a leftist.

>Tfw third positionist literature student

>> No.6072745

>>6072727
That's not an actual position. Third position has no actual economic of political theory.

>> No.6072768

>>6072745
>no actual economic of political theory.
b-but muh prose poetry about tradition!

>> No.6072773

>>6072768
Third position doesn't have any notable prose poetry either.

>> No.6072778

fascism is inherently irrational but it shouldn't be banned, especially if it serves as a containment thread for wandering /pol/sters

>> No.6072781

>>6072778
>fascism is inherently irrational
Explain

>> No.6072784

>>6072374
yes mods are marxist

>> No.6072789

>>6072636
I find it hard to believe that someone on a literature board would actually write this.

>> No.6072791

>>6072636
>anyone who actually studies literature is a leftist.
I'm actually not surprised to learn that everyone who studies something with zero practical application for society is a leftist.

>> No.6072793

>>6072789
It's still on 4chan,

>> No.6072794
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6072794

>>6072791
Well posted

>> No.6072798

/lit/ used to have insane mods

i think it's better now

>> No.6072805

>>6072791
Our obsession with being "practical" is what is sucking the soul out of our society. Researching a new cheese flavoring for lard-o-chips is considered "practical", but studying the greatest thoughts on the human condition from the last 2,500 years is viewed largely as a waste of time for dingbats.

>> No.6072814

>>6072793
Good point. But the important thing is that we agree how dumb that is.

>> No.6072828

>>6072781
all real fascists know the kernel of fascism is about liberation for the irrationality of the average human character. You can argue about whether that's a good or evil thing, but don't try to pretend it's a rational ideology.

>> No.6072830

It's fine to discuss conservative authors such as Buckley and so on, but talking about proto- and neo- nazi or fascist authors as if they are to be extolled or studied as anything other than a regrettable but influential historical curiosity is detestable

>> No.6072833

>>6072828
>all real fascists know the kernel of fascism is about liberation for the irrationality of the average human character.
This is a very awkward argument. So if I don't agree with you, I'm not a real fascist, and if I do, I must concede the argument. Hm.

>> No.6072842

>>6072830
What are your major criticisms of Gabriele D'Annunzio, Alfredo Rocco and Giovanni Gentile?

>> No.6072848

>>6072833
If you disagree with me then you have a different definition of fascism than the one accepted by most people, including most fascists themselves.

>> No.6072853

>>6072848
Are you actually going to critique fascist theory, or are you just going to pull this bullshit where you say "most fascists" the way people say "most feminists" when they're too vacuous to actually critique feminism intelligently?

>> No.6072868

>>6072853
saying 'fascism is irrational' doesn't require critique, it's inherent to the definition of the term. You may as well be asking me to provide a critique to prove feminism is concerned with social rights for women or that Derrida uses language to showcase his ideas.

>> No.6072879

>>6072868
>saying 'fascism is irrational' doesn't require critique, it's inherent to the definition of the term
It's actually not.

>> No.6072895

>>6072879
actually it is

>> No.6072901

>>6072895
Show me where

>> No.6072904

>>6072399
>their hugbox thoughtcrime censoring.
I thought we were talking about /lit/, not /pol/.

>> No.6072913

>>6072904
/pol/ hardly censors shit, that's part of the reason the board is awful

>> No.6072921

>>6072913
Not explicitly. Its censorship is that any ideas that deviate from the accepted ones are shouted down or ignored. Almost as much of an echo chamber as tumblr.

>> No.6072923

>>6072921
Tumblr is hardly an eco-chamber, there are numerous thriving blogs which are anti-feminist.

>> No.6072926

>>6072879
>being a cakeboi

Ok i guess if you believe nationalism and sometimes racism are rational interpretations of reality and not manifestations of reactionary desires of the average human character then Fascism and probably lots of other fun things are rational too.

Even Hitler would laugh at you for sincerely believing this

>> No.6072927

>>6072410
>muh freedom of speech
Doesn't exist and it never has.

>> No.6072929
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6072929

>>6072926
top lel if you really believe that any degree of nationalism or xenophobia is in all cases irrational

>> No.6072935

>>6072929

Cultural heritage and patriotism is not the same as nationalism.
Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception.

>> No.6072939

>>6072935
Sounds more like you don't like self-righteous imperialism.

>> No.6072946

>>6072926
I'm not a Nazi, I'm a fascist. Conflating the two is like conflating communism and liberalism.

Fascism explicitly denies that nations exist as facts of nature. Fascism affirms that the nation is an idea created by the people that binds them together through sharing in its creation and affirmation.

>from the Fascist point of view, the nation itself is a creation of the mind and is not a material presupposition, is not a datum of nature. The nation, says the Fascist, is never really made; neither, therefore, can the State attain an absolute form, since it is merely the nation in the latter's concrete, political manifestation. For the Fascist, the State is always in fieri. It is in our hands, wholly; whence our very serious responsibility towards it.

>> No.6072948

>>6072935
Double-standards

Regardless, all that patriotism stuff is an outdated notion that should be abolished

>> No.6072950

>>6072939

I'm using the definition of nationalism explicit to fascism, that of picking a side you consider the best and thinking in terms of competitive prestige.

>> No.6072952
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6072952

>>6072636
Holy canolli!
What a goober.

You should read Everyday Use by Alice Walker

>> No.6072953

>>6072946
>continentals

>> No.6072955

>>6072953
>>6072842
>tfw you misquote your shitpost
I have never felt this pathetic.

>> No.6072957

>>6072636
Read Spengler. I dunno if people consider him reactionary but he's certainly by no means a leftist, and he's worth a read.

>> No.6072961

>>6072953
More pathos than logos.

>> No.6072964

>>6072946
>For the Fascist, the State is always in fieri. It is in our hands, wholly; whence our very serious responsibility towards it

And you think this is a rational stance? Thank you for proving me right.

>liberalism and communism
Ok chief, I get why you'd want to distance yourself from the Nazi's since they've been so thoroughly exploded by history despite being the most successful implimentation of fascist thought in modern history, but i bet wouldnt say the same about Mussolini or Salazar or any of those creeps history often overlooks in its mockery.

>> No.6072967

>>6072374
no. we've had like eighty threads of 'reactionary literature' with the infograph and everything run hundreds of replies. some get deleted within a few replies. its the same for leftist/marxist threads. drop the victim complex, check the archive.

>threads of right-wing, reactionary, traditionalist lit with hundreds of replies
>>/lit/thread/S4188089
>>/lit/thread/S4188487
>>/lit/thread/S4191302
>>/lit/thread/S4196142
>>/lit/thread/S4205977
>>/lit/thread/S4214538
>>/lit/thread/S4283238

>threads of left-wing, communism, anarchism, deleted, below 50 replies, sometimes below 10 replies
>>/lit/thread/S5496521
>>/lit/thread/S4981511
>>/lit/thread/S5405821
>>/lit/thread/S5227176
>>/lit/thread/S4401640
>>/lit/thread/S4726510
>>/lit/thread/S5051430

i would like to take this time to explain that the idea of 'free speech' anyplace privately owned is idiotic. when you post here, and nearly on any social media, you are agreeing to terms of service, ie entering a private contract. you have no rights here. it explicitly says the mods can ban and delete with caprice. they don't even have to have a reason.

similarly, you can't go into a restaurant that explicitly forbids firearms and cite the second amendment in your defense as security escorts you off the premises. when you go into the restaurant you are entering a privately owned place, like this here forum, which has its own rules, terms, conditions.

you are welcome to make your case if it is a public/government-owned space. even then, there are limits on free speech.

>> No.6072970
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6072970

>>6072374
Steve Ditko?

>> No.6072984

>>6072964
>And you think this is a rational stance? Thank you for proving me right.
There is absolutely nothing about it, unless you think a similar statement about culture would be irrational.

>Ok chief, I get why you'd want to distance yourself from the Nazi's since they've been so thoroughly exploded by history despite being the most successful implimentation of fascist thought in modern history, but i bet wouldnt say the same about Mussolini or Salazar or any of those creeps history often overlooks in its mockery.
I think Mussolini stopped actually adhering to fascism when he made excessive efforts to appease Hitler, such as with ant-Semeticism.

I don't think you have read any fascist theory, it seems you grasp it as little more than a buzzword. Frankly, I'm digusted by this, the left tries to distance itself from numerous shitty regimes that were overtly communist or socialist and self-references, yet tries to bind fascists to any number of crappy regimes (sometimes even communist ones) which never referred to themselves as fascists.

>> No.6072985

Can a libertarian get in on this discussion?

>> No.6072992

>>6072967

I like how all of the "reactionary" threads lump fairly reasonable conservatives like William F. Buckley in with proto-Fascist nonsense peddlers like Julius Evola

>> No.6073002

>>6072985
Could you explain to me libertarianism in the 21st century? I think it's admirable in some respects, but I think corporations have gotten far too large and powerful for economic libertarianism to be a feasible practice.

>> No.6073010

>>6072985
I hope not.

>>6072992
How the hell is Evola fascist in any way? He r And why would you call him "proto" when he wrote after fascism started, and refused to be a part of fascism because he considered it populist?

>> No.6073012

>>6073002
What the fuck kind of right-winger are you who would admire such an individualist ideology?

>> No.6073014

>>6073002
But who created the corporations? Was it not government meddling in the natural free market that caused the creation of them? It merely takes a few legislators to take away their given powers of law, and they will be no different then a company.

>> No.6073015

>>6073012

Libertarianism is increasingly associated with mainstream right wing politics in North America, fyi

>> No.6073016

>>6073012
I never claimed to be a right winger.

I think it's admirable in theory, but misguided. I'm more in the Hobbes camp than the Rousseau camp.

>> No.6073022

I think the main reason for various politically themed threads were (and probably still are) deleted is, because no matter whyt your opinion is on /pol/, this still is something that should be discussed on /pol/.
Anything politcs related, even if serious and about political philosophy, and literature, should be discussed on /pol/. No matter if left or right wing. I hate the fact, that for some /lit/ has become some type of "/leftypol"/ board. Which it isn't and shouldn't be.

>> No.6073025

>>6073015
That's because it had its roots in Rothbard, who was a cyrto-Secessionist, and Secessionism was build around setting up a Southern aristocracy.

Nonetheless, libertarianism today is just corporate shilling and one of the shittiest things to happen to our politics. I'd rather live under communism than a serious libertarian system, at least communists place high value on the community and the nation.

>> No.6073026

>>6073025
>Corporate
>implying those would exist in their modern from without facist

>> No.6073027

>>6073022

/pol/ can't discuss political science or political philosophy worth a shit.

How do you expect to discuss International Relations theory with people who shitpost about Jewish conspiracies and don't know who Schelling is? How do you expect to discuss Hobbes with people who are calling everyone who disagrees with their irrational opinions paid shills?

>> No.6073028

>>6073026
Corporations did not come from corporatism, you imbecile.

>> No.6073030

>>6072984
I'm politically left and I don't distance communism from Marxism at all, i think 20th century communism was the biggest political calamity of all time and I hate ' this is not true...' arguments as much as you. It's stagnant and backwards and idiots will wave soviet flags at every opportunity, but whereas interpretations of Marxism lead to the formation of welfare states, universal healthcare and education etc, there is nothing to be extracted from fascism which will benefit the common.

But clearly you have chosen your side and will continue to deceive yourself that attaching your pride to the circumstances of your birth is a rational stance.

>> No.6073031

>>6073028
But they took their modern form from it. Yes Mercantilism spawned them, but they gained their modern power and influence thanks to dolts like Mussolini who don't understand basic economics.

>> No.6073035

>>6073030

Marxist academic analysis isn't that bad, though I find it disagreeable as a starting point.

>nothing to be extracted from fascism

A sense of patriotism and loyalty are the only good things about fascism (and even then, they are often abused under such systems), but those ideas can exist plenty independent of fascism and without being extracted from it

>> No.6073037

>>6072374
OP, that is just plain wrong. Then again mods and janitors are always assholes. We dont need them.

>> No.6073038

>>6073027
>How do you expect to discuss International Relations theory with people who shitpost about Jewish conspiracies and don't know who Schelling is? How do you expect to discuss Hobbes with people who are calling everyone who disagrees with their irrational opinions paid shills?
I completely understand your problems, because they're also my. But if /his/ taught us anything is, that there can be a pretty "normal" discussion held on /pol/ also avoid the shitposting of /pol/ maymays all over the thread.
You or "we" should at least try to discuss it. And now with IDs you can just filter shitposters within that thread, so you only get the serious discussion.

>> No.6073039

>>6073031
Care you explain how Mussolini gave more power to corporations?

>> No.6073043

>>6073039
He integrated them into the government by sending his officials, thus tying the two together.

>> No.6073044

>2015
>People still hasn't learn how to use 4chan

Read threads you are interested in.
Respond only to good posts.
And stop shit-posting just because you don't agree.
You don't have to respond to all threads or posts.
Respond to intelligent arguments.

>> No.6073047

>>6073043
So what? That happens in liberal US as well as in socialist states and communist states. It is just a matter of the method.

>> No.6073049

>>6073030
>interpretations of Marxism lead to welfare states

lol, Bismark was a Marxism?

>there is nothing to be extracted from fascism which will benefit the common.
Actual idealism allows for a subjectivity of the common, which is really important to self worth, and has practical applications besides.

>> No.6073050

>>6073047
>Implying that it fixes anything
It just ruins economies more so then if they let it be with prosperity.

>> No.6073051

>>6073035
>A sense of patriotism and loyalty are the only good things about fascism
And these two aren't specific to fascism. Any ideology based on communitarianism will have those two in a very important roles.

>>6073044
THIS
Especially on /pol/, with IDs (which I think are the best thing to happen to /pol/). If you see a holocaust denial thread, don't go post in it (unless you want to). And if you want to discuss the influence of Westphalia peace on modern sovereignty and some fuck is shitposting about Jews, just ignore the posts, or even better filter his ID.

>> No.6073054

>>6072408
are you new?

>> No.6073056

>>6073050
I agree with you, it is not good, but that is not what I said. I'm saying it's common-place in all forms of government.

>> No.6073057

>>6073035
fascism just appropriates fine things like patriotism, national heritage, anger against economic exploitation etc in its attempts to unleash barbarism. It's still quite unbelievable that a self -proclaimed fascist in 2015 can deny the central component of fascism is about liberating mankind's primordial (not rational) nature.

>> No.6073060

>>6073056
But it was first implemented in that manner amongst the Fascist of Italy.

>> No.6073061

>>6073043
Institute for Industrial Reconstruction gave the state far more control over business than business had over the state.

>> No.6073063

>>6073060
>But it was first implemented in that manner amongst the Fascist of Italy.
What exactly do you mean? Do you mean business leaders were first given political power in fascist Italy?

>> No.6073069

>>6073061
No arguing with that, but it doesn't make it economically viable or good.

>> No.6073075

>>6073069
Er, the IRI was extremely economically viable and proved to be Mussolini's greatest legacy.

>> No.6073076

>>6073063
>Implying they didn't already have it
>Implying Mussolini didn't deepthroat them for the elections
What Mussolini gave them was a front seat in the government versus a proxy chair

>> No.6073079

>>6073076
Oh, he certainly did. But his policy changed radically after the first few years.

>> No.6073084

>>6073049
>lol, Bismark was a Marxism?

Mate it was literally called state sociallism and the program set forward by the social democratics was directly influenced by the work of marx and engels. Bismark tried to remove the overtly socialistic stuff but it was all from the program of the SDs

>> No.6073094

>>6073084
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Socialist_Laws

>> No.6073104

>>6073060
>But it was first implemented in that manner amongst the Fascist of Italy.

That is just plain wrong if you look at the US, after the first anti-trust laws regarding the railroads the corporate US interests started taking active interest in the congress.

Or look at the Hanseatic League for that matter. Corporations has always had a hand in politics.

>> No.6073105 [DELETED] 

>>6073084
lol kill yourself retard

>> No.6073106

>>6073094
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Socialism_%28Germany%29

>The program of the Social Democrats included all of the programs that Bismarck eventually implemented, but also included programs designed to preempt the programs championed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

I can quote from Wikipedia too. Your point was about the marxist origins of welfare reform in the Bismark's Germany.

>> No.6074231

>>6072429
>implying women arent all cunts
>implying the holohoax ever happened