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/lit/ - Literature

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6017261 No.6017261 [Reply] [Original]

Was rock music a good chance for poets to actually get an audience and a relevant way of expressing themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6doB7ZRtQJw&index=2&list=RDz1irjRAvy9c

>> No.6017265

>>6017261
That's seriously the dumbest thesis I've read in a few months

>> No.6017297

>>6017261
Maybe. Most rock musicians are very poor lyricists, though.
But Mangum was GOAT.

>> No.6017307

>>6017297
People like Dylan, Mangum, Nick Drake, Jim Morrison, Beefheart, Reed, and Cohen, while mostly mediocre poets, still just have the vibe of artists making art. Granted they're doing it through rock music, but they still seem to have some genuine desire to write and sing.

>> No.6017315

>>6017307
>mangum
>mediocre
I agree with the rest, i do like beefheart's lyricism, tho.

>> No.6017318

Beefheart was GOAT rock-poet

It’s so hot
looks like you have three beaks crow
the moon’s so full
white hat on a pumpkin
you know there’s something
the moon was a stone’s throw
stop the show
I need to say hello
to the crow
light the fire piano
the moon showed up
and it started to show
tonight there’d be ice cream
ice cream for crow
ice cream for crow
sun cream by day
ice cream for crow
ice cream by night
ice cream by day
the sun ain’t stable
ice cream for crow
crow pants the scarecrow
crow dance ah ho ho
crow dance ah panther
scare crow you answer
you can hee and haw
laugh and scratch
ha ha ha
ha ha ha
boss and toss
don’t shake my hand
give me your claw
two tears in a haystack
scarecrow get back
tonight there’s gonna be
a feather treatment
beneath the symbol
we’ll all assemble
oh how we’ll fly
oh how we’ll tremble
cut the cake
we’ll all get well
turn up the speakers
hop flop squawk
it’s a keeper
ice cream for show
ice cream for crow
now now that’s it
now you can go

you also have to watch the video to hear how he says it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqRHr5pEIFU

>> No.6017336

>>6017318
I read that in his voice.
His delivery on TMR is impeccable
>shOULdURrrs
Everytime

>> No.6017365

Daily reminder that rock music was stolen from people of color.

>> No.6017373
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6017373

>>6017365
But it was perfected by whites

>> No.6017375

>>6017373
>>>/pol/

>> No.6017393

>>6017365
We have as much claim to their culture as they do to ours.

>> No.6017394
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6017394

>>6017375
It's true in this case. The blacks brought the blues, rough sounding guitars, and yelling, and The Beatles combined that with more complicated harmonics inspired by western art music. Just like how the 13th Floor Elevators combined rock music with the psychedelic counterculture creating psychedelic rock, The Velvet Underground combined rock music with contemporary classical and just underground shit in general, Beefheart combined it with free jazz and a strange way of composing it, The Doors with theater and poetry, Dylan with surreal lyricism and longer song structures, Zappa with parody and satire, King Crimson with stranger time signatures and tighter playing/composition, etc.

Although perhaps the greatest innovator to come out of rock music was black, so it kind of balances out

>> No.6017399

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcJl6ITKzPw this is the best poem of the 21st century so far

>> No.6017400

>>6017393
No, that's cultural appropriation.

>> No.6017404

>>6017394
combining styles doesn't mean perfecting one of those styles

unless you think the beatles perfected 'western art music' (whatever this is), 13th floor elevators perfected psychedelic counterculture, etc

>> No.6017424

>>6017365
Not really. Rockabilly was a thing of its own you know.

>> No.6017425

wesleyan student furrowing brow while intently looking over his freshly composed tersely worded letter to jimmy page demanding that he abandon the guitar and exclusively perform english ballads on the accordion or another similarly white instrument or else be labeled racist forever

>> No.6017433
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6017433

>>6017373
>>6017394
>>6017394
>>6017373
>He thinks all this pleb dad rock is black music 'perfected'

>> No.6017466
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6017466

>>6017433
>mfw people listen to anything after Wagner

>> No.6017482

>>6017466
I have Das Rheingold, it was... okay. Link me something.
He's no Leoš Janáček

>> No.6017500

>>6017373

fela kuti laugh dot jay peg

>> No.6017540

>>6017482
Fuck off, butterfag, I'm not linking you shit.

>> No.6017598
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6017598

>>6017540
>Making claims about Wanger
>Can't think of a single piece

Here's Janáček. Hope you like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=082aizXKKOI

>> No.6017604

>>6017598
Fuck off, you stupid namefag.

>> No.6017637

>>6017318
this guy is just a crazy hobo. you guys realize this right?

>> No.6017661

>>6017637
>just a crazy hobo
>just
who the fuck are you buddy

>> No.6017683

>>6017661
someone who hasn't read enough philosophy to think crazy=genius. i could pay beefheart or set up a tape recorder and buy the closest hobo a 40, what's the difference. sometimes a duck is just a duck man, you don't gotta read between the lines to hear the quacking.

>> No.6018424

>>6017394
But keiji haino is asian

>> No.6018794

>>6017365
Stolen? a bizarre concept, are you gonna stop writing now cos it was -stolen- from the Sumerians?

>> No.6018820

>>6017261
It's the foremost means for the consumption of poetry, often it's not very good but some, probably more than is generally recognised, is very good: better, by a considerable margin, than most of the poetry disseminated under that label, which is generally poor to mediocre.

>> No.6018841

>>6017261
Neutral Milk Hotel is a meme, but they're still honestly one of the best rock groups ever. Jeff makes some fantastic songs.

>> No.6018896

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1irjRAvy9c

Jeff does seem kind of like that 'possessed genius' type.

>> No.6018938

itaos is a spiritual blessing

>> No.6018991

>>6017336
>His delivery on TMR is impeccable
so impeccable that it's completely off time

>> No.6019128
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6019128

>mfw I legitimately heard someone say that Jim Morrison was one of the greatest poets of all time
>mfw people probably think this about Bob Dylan too
Neil Young is the greatest rock lyricist of all time and even what he writes in his songs could never match the likes of any respected actual poet. The same goes for the Wu-Tang Clan, probably the most skilled in hip hop when it comes to lyrics (if you take them as a whole on 36 Chambers - if some hipster responds to this by calling me 'entry-level' and dropping Big Pun or Digable Planets as better, they're really not.) That's just because music is a very limited form when it comes to poetic expression. I mean, when was the last time you read a poem that had a 'chorus' in the sense a song does?

Jeff Mangum is definitely a great lyricist but he's limited in his ability to 'emotionally intense' and somewhat unnerving songs.

It also annoys me that anti-rap people will judge hip hop based on its lyrics - not just how 'good' they are, but if it's an 'appropriate' subject matter for a song. I could think of a thousand great rhymes just from songs about fucking hoes and shooting niggas, but they ignore them cause it's not Tupac trying too hard to be 'deep'. They then praise rock songs that are both terrible in lyrical ability and about poor subject matter, just look at Led Zeppelin.

>> No.6019139

>>6018991
are you an idiot?

>> No.6019145

>>6017433
>he thinks dad is an insult

I love my father. I'm sorry yours didn't love you.

>> No.6019146

You know jeff is married to the woman who made that Zizek documentary, do you think he met Zizek?

The fuck would that have been like

>> No.6019150

>>6018841
Agreed.
In Aeroplane Over The Sea is probably the best album I ever heard

>> No.6019151

>>6019128
>when was the last time you read a poem that had a 'chorus' in the sense a song does?

They definitely exist, but I know what you mean.

>> No.6019153

>>6019128
the people you are talking about are literally youtube commenters.

and a song doesn't need a chorus bruh.

>> No.6019159

>>6019153
>and a song doesn't need a chorus bruh.
Are you implying that I'm implying that?

>> No.6019160

>tfw you're a good enough musician and a good enough poet to finally combine the two successfully in the modern world

Feels good. Hopefully I'll get around to it soon.

>> No.6019167

>>6019159
Well, in a way.
>That's just because music is a very limited form when it comes to poetic expression
i don't think this is true as all, since both poetry and songs are musical.
if you're talking about pop music or music with very clear pop structures you would be pretty much right, though

>> No.6019169

>>6019151
Actually two rock bands made one of the most beautiful Croatian poems into a song.
And it sounds like complete shit.

>> No.6019175

>>6019169
link the croatian poem pretty please

>> No.6019179

>>6019175
http://bakho.livejournal.com/799.html
It isn't an official translation and a lot is obviously lost.

>> No.6019202

>>6019179
thanks, i'm half croatian but can't make much sense of the poem ;_;

>> No.6019210

>>6019128
Jim Morrison is utter dogshit. LA Woman is one of the worst rock songs ever and the only worse "known" band I can think of is AC/DC. Most /lit/ rock band is Phish. Wu-Tang is GOAT.

>> No.6019219

>>6019210
I really like the Grateful Dead. Where to start with Phish?

>> No.6019222

>>6019202
It's about a man looking at the dead body of his wife/lover/something

>> No.6019229

>>6019210
I'd say NMH, Radiohead, Swans and Isis are the most /lit/ bands

>> No.6019232

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krytWei3e_o

Early Soft Machine is crazy, man...

>> No.6019238

>>6019169
Sounds like shit because of the music?

>> No.6019246
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6019246

>>6019229
>most /lit/ band
>not Velvet Underground or Steely Dan

>> No.6019247

>>6019238
Yes. All the rhythm and atmosphere the poem so carefully creates is lost.

>> No.6019248

jim morrison's lyrics are shit, but c'mon how could you hate on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjY3nfvkJ0Y

the doors best stuff is enchanting despite its flaws

>> No.6019252

>>6019246
Idk didn't lisen a lot of them so I can't comment.

>> No.6019253

>>6019247
Do you think there is a way to do the poem justice with music? Or will music always interrupt the rhythm?

>> No.6019255

>>6019219
Don't.

>> No.6019263

>>6019219
Relisten.net, try the 2011 shows at bethel woods. Late 90's has the best shows but the quality of recordings is really spotty til post 09. Open air venues (arenas/festivals) have better sound usually.

>> No.6019267

>>6019255
>>6019263
Hm, who to believe...

>> No.6019271

>>6019253
There isn't because the poem is pretty much perfect.
But I don't expect the musical version to do it justice, just not to shit all over it.

>> No.6019277
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6019277

Faust S/T is great

>> No.6019282

>>6019267
They're alright but much like The Grateful Dead most of their stuff is fucking boring. Also, you'll never be able to say you're a fan without sounding like a tool.

>> No.6019287

>>6019271
So, in a way, it seems like music is better suited to uplift mediocre poetry than to potentially disrupt great poetry.

>> No.6019297

>>6019277
based

>> No.6019302

>>6019287
Well they are different mediums.
Personally I've never heard a song that I'd say had great poetry. Well aside tries of adapting actual poetry.

>> No.6019308

>>6019277
Krautrock is crazy as fuck. A bunch of classically trained Germans rebelling through rock music.

>> No.6019311
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6019311

>>6019277
Why does everyone seem to think krautrock is a subgenre of prog?

>> No.6019312

>>6019282
They have a lot more energy than the dead and their long jams actually have punch at some points rather than noodling forever. I didn't like them a ton until I went to see them live, though, and then everything sort of clicked and now they don't really have anything I dislike. Songs like Wilson or Golgi Apparatus I think even people who don't like Phish should be able to appreciate if they like rock.
>Muh giving a shit what people think of my tastes

Lmao

>> No.6019316

>>6019311
Because they sometimes sound alike. It's easy to listen to a bit o' Can and call it progressive rock, or related Faust to Zappa.

The krauts are really their own breed of rock, though. They were the closest rock got to a legitimate art. So fucking based.

>> No.6019325

>Ctrl+F
>No Morrissey
You let me down /lit/.

>> No.6019335
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6019335

>>6019325
>liking a racist fag

>> No.6019348

>>6019316
the drumming in can is so fucking good

>> No.6019356

>>6017683
>pay beefheart
Dude is dead.

>> No.6019361

>>6018841
Going to see them in April. Hoping for a good show.

>> No.6019370

>>6019219
>I really like the Grateful Dead
Fucking dropped

>> No.6019378

>>6019361
Phish guy here, my friend who has been going to see jam shows and festivals for over a decade saw NMH last year and said it absolutely blew him away and sober, too

>> No.6019405

>Goldaline, my dear
>we will fold and freeze together
>far away from here
>there is sun and spring and green forever

>> No.6019453

>>6017307
>Morrison
>mediocre at poetry

>> No.6019457

>>6017261
Train set and match spied under the blind
Shiny and contoured the railway winds
And I've heard the sound from my cousin's bed
The hiss of the train at the railway head

Always the summers are slipping away

A 60 ton angel falls to the earth
A pile of old metal, a radiant blur
Scars in the country, the summer and her

Always the summers are slipping away
Find me a way for making it stay

When I hear the engine pass
I'm kissing you wide
The hissing subsides
I'm in luck

When the evening reaches here
You're tying me up
I'm dying of love
It's OK

I'd say so.

>> No.6019458

>>6019453
you're right, even that's being generous

>> No.6019460

>>6019453
Are you implying he's above average or below average?

>> No.6019462

>>6017261
Heart's Crazy on You is poetic as fuck

>> No.6019463

>>6019460
>>6019458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhZFhvG6OkM

>> No.6019468

>>6019460
>>6019458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aNNIyxbG5g

ratchet-ass niqqas yall dont know shit
go flex somewhere else yall bustas

>> No.6019481

>>6019468
>forgetting Horse Latitudes
what a dummy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idDxjy1-ou4

>> No.6019482

>>6019311
because prog rock is the vaguest fucking 'subgenre' of all time.

>> No.6019487

So you guys DON'T like Joanna Newsom, then?

>> No.6019502

>>6019487
I love her, especially before her voice "broke", not so much afterwards

The Milk-Eyed Mender >= Ys >>>> Have One On Me

>> No.6019507
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6019507

Step aside boys, patricians coming through

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jQIMauXki54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJ8nRtzcx0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U8nzWZgGdlw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yy7L5DFspnU

>> No.6019514

>>6019487
She's the NPR of music.

>> No.6019549

>>6019514
she's a better writer than 99% of all the other artists mentioned in this thread

>> No.6019577

>>6019549
fuck off samberg

>> No.6019593

>>6019577
u got me ;)

>> No.6019648

>>6019128
>I mean, when was the last time you read a poem that had a 'chorus' in the sense a song does?

Where dips the rocky highland
Of Sleuth Wood in the lake,
There lies a leafy island
Where flapping herons wake
The drowsy water rats;
There we've hid our faery vats,
Full of berries
And of reddest stolen cherries.

Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand.
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.


Where the wave of moonlight glosses
The dim gray sands with light,
Far off by furthest Rosses
We foot it all the night,
Weaving olden dances
Mingling hands and mingling glances
Till the moon has taken flight;
To and fro we leap
And chase the frothy bubbles,
While the world is full of troubles
And is anxious in its sleep.

Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.


Where the wandering water gushes
From the hills above Glen-Car,
In pools among the rushes
That scarce could bathe a star,
We seek for slumbering trout
And whispering in their ears
Give them unquiet dreams;
Leaning softly out
From ferns that drop their tears
Over the young streams.

Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.


Away with us he's going,
The solemn-eyed:
He'll hear no more the lowing
Of the calves on the warm hillside
Or the kettle on the hob
Sing peace into his breast,
Or see the brown mice bob
Round and round the oatmeal chest

For he comes, the human child
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand
From a world more full of weeping than he can understand

>>6019246

this

>> No.6019679

>>6019507
Reminds me of mr bungle but with 0 subtlety and 50x more immature

>> No.6020127

>>6019679
Damn. And Mr. Bungle is really fucking immature.

>> No.6020133

>>6019246
Velvet Underground's poetry:

>Noooooow, if she ever comes now now, if she ever comes now now, aw aw, and it feels it good, aw aw and it's made out of wood if you can seeeee….

Top-notch.

>> No.6020137

>ctrl+f "Cohen"
>1 result

that's literally what Cohen did. He was an acclaimed poet and novelist who, when he couldn't make ends meet, became a singer/songwriter.

>> No.6020158

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDGhJtEsmj8

he came home from the war with a party in his head and an idea for a fireworks display.

>> No.6020170

lyrics work best as simple introspection. whether it is considered poetry does not matter. if the feeling is conveyed, it has done its job and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7aqULVOrlQ

>> No.6020181

>>6017261
Hip hop is now a better chance.
>inb4 "muh gangsta rap" "muh lil wayne" or whatever
I'm talking about real hip hop here. People like KRS-ONE, Public Enemy, Common, etc.
And also more underground artists like MF DOOM, Del tha Funkee Homosapien and others.

>> No.6020183

>>6020133
SHE'S

BUSY

SUCKING

ON

MY

DING

DONG

>> No.6020187

>>6020133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj1r8smLOmM

The myriad choices of his fate
Set themselves out upon a plate
For him to choose
What had he to lose
Not a ghost bloodied country
All covered with sleep
Where the black angel did weep
Not an old city street in the east
Gone to choose
And wandering's brother
Walked on through the night
With his hair in his face
On a long splintered cut from the knife of G.T.
The rally man's patter ran on through the dawn
Until we said so long
To his skull-shrill yell
Shining brightly red-rimmed and
Red-lined with the time
Infused with the choice of the mind
On ice skates scraping chunks
From the bells
Cut mouth bleeding razor's
Forgetting the pain
Antiseptic remains cool goodbye
So you fly
To the cozy brown snow of the east
Gone to choose, choose again
Sacrificials remains make it hard to forget
Where you come from
The stools of your eyes
Serve to realize fame, choose again
And roverman's refrain of the sacrilege recluse
For the loss of a horse
Went the bowels and a tail of a rat
Come again, choose to go
And if Epiphany's terror reduced you to shame
Have your head bobbed and weaved
Choose a side to be on
If the stone glances off
Split didactics in two
Leave the colors of the mouse trails
Don't scream, try between
If you choose, if you choose, try to lose
For the loss of remain come and start
Start the game I che che che che I
Che che ka tak koh
Choose to choose
Choose to choose, choose to go

>> No.6020209

>>6019128
What about Lenny Cohen
He was a published poet before starting to sing

>> No.6020214

>>6017318

good choice. pretty cool to see so many beefheart fans on /lit/, even though most are likely crossposters.

>> No.6020219

>>6019146
thish fantashy of rescuing Anne Frank from the Nazis and sho on... it ish pure ideology... obshene...

>> No.6020225

>>6020219
sean please.

>> No.6020239

>>6019210

>phish

absolutely disgusting

>> No.6020256

>>6020133

get busy sucking on my ding dong you fag

>> No.6020257

we don't need another >>>/mu/

>> No.6020391

>>6017261

David Berman was an outstanding poet

My understanding is he's since gone a bit off balance so I can't speak to anything he is currently publishing, if he is at all

But his collection Actual Air is legit

>> No.6021070

>>6019316
>closest rock got to legimate art

Rock, and popular music as a whole, was always art.

>> No.6021673

>>6019335
No one thinks they're wrong, dude.

>> No.6021864

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPxz_4wIa4g

Define poetry

>> No.6021897
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6021897

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZjIdyWu-U