/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6003736]

So what's with today's intelligentsia coming to Islam's defense?
Wasn't religion an opiate?

[Anonymous No.6003739]

contrarianism, airs of wisdom

[Anonymous No.6003744]

They realized most Muslims can't get past religion like the rest of the West and the Orient could.
Which is a racist conclusion, but they haven't realized that yet

[Anonymous No.6003802]

>>6003744

This, they either consciously or subconsciously that Muslims are basically considered a race now and that by criticizing Islam they would be committing the grave sin of racism, which is anathema to any serious liberal.

[Anonymous No.6003807]

why wouldn't they

sage and reported

[Anonymous No.6003820]

>>6003736
we don't

regards, the intelligentsia

[Anonymous No.6003835]

>opiates
>not awesome
>not from Islam central

[Anonymous No.6003855]

>>6003736

They haven't figured out yet how to do it without being racist according to their own definition of racism. And as you know, being racist is the absolute worst thing you can ever be.

Some are also downright scared for their jobs/lives.

[Anonymous No.6003858]

Intelligentsia should argue against stupid things. Islam is a stupid thing but the caricatures used to attack Islam is far stupider. You don't cure people of opiates by saying opiates are stupid and you are stupid for taking them. You give them reasons for not needing them.

[Anonymous No.6003908]

muh islamophobia

[Anonymous No.6004038]

>>6003858
i think they are intended to piss the mooslims off, not convert them

[Anonymous No.6004066]

>People still don't realize Islam is the closest ideology existing to an anitithesis of Western values

How

[Anonymous No.6004068]

>>6003736

nah, the defense is US imperialism did it / inability to integrate to western culture did it / islam had nothing to do with it

[Anonymous No.6004081]

>>6004066
So is Christianity, Christianity just learned how to get along after the Enlightenment and the revival of the values of classical intellectuals, whereas Islam didn't adapt so well, and that lack of experience makes Islam autistic.

[Anonymous No.6004082]

>>6003736
>Wasn't religion an opiate?
Of course it is. Religion was never the real motivation behind wars. I mean, it is to the puppets sent to die, but it's just an excuse.
>>6003744
You're mom is racis.

[Anonymous No.6004089]

>>6004066
>Western values
Like capitalism? We don't have values.

[Anonymous No.6004091]

It's just like rational people coming to defense of women, OP. Trends are hard to resist. Of course, neither groups have anything of value to contribute to society, but what with the twittersphere and feminazi cunts on TV, it's hard to stand out on your own. Thankfully we don't have to, we have MRA groups coming to power, soon they'll help with this imbalance. I predict an MRA member in office by at most, 2025, or at least in some prominent political position.

[Anonymous No.6004092]

>le dumbass Fox News christians, hahaha, christians are so dumb, they ruin this country
>not all muslims

[Anonymous No.6004102]

>>6004081
wow. that was the dumbest thing i've ever read on this board

[Anonymous No.6004105]

>>6004092
>The jews own the media!
>It turns out the Jews were actually islamists in disguise.

[Anonymous No.6004114]

>>6004089
Don't be ridiculous. We value freedom of speech, individualism, freedom of assembly, meritocracy, freedom of religion, human rights. The leftism you subscribe to as an academic movement was originally just radical Westernism, it didn't start to oppose Western values until Marx, but Rousseau and Charles Fourier as the epitome of Western values.

[Anonymous No.6004116]

[Anonymous No.6004122]

>>6004102
It's quite true, none of the things considered the hallmarks of Western values, as I posted here

>freedom of speech, individualism, freedom of assembly, meritocracy, freedom of religion, human rights

were any concern of Christianity's until the Enlightenment, Christianity in all it's political forms opposed all these things nearly 100% of the time.

[Anonymous No.6004138]

>>6003736
People who try to defend Islam in the way that most liberally minded lay people try to do these days aren't part of "today's intelligentsia" whatsoever. You'll hear uneducated platitudes like "Islam is a religion of peace" or that any criticism of the religion is "racist" (despite the fact that Islam has no racial mandate unlike Judaism for example). Yet these people have likely never even so much cracked open a Qur'an, much less seen one.

The worst thing is that their rhetoric tends to get in the way of real reformers within the religion and obfuscate the issues because in their minds criticism is some form of intolerance, which is the worst thing in the world and even worse than Hitler and you'd have to be some sort of monster to criticize a system of belief.

[Anonymous No.6004140]

I hate their self-victimization more than anything. And the constant "yeah but what about Israel, hu?" diversions.

[Anonymous No.6004143]

>>6003736
The left-wing "intelligentsia" is masochist

It's as easy as that op

[Anonymous No.6004144]

>>6004114
>We
lol
>We value freedom of speech
Unless you make fun of the wrong stuff, like that french comedian.
>Individualism
Democracy isn't exactly individualism. Individualism is anarchistic.
>freedom of assembly
Not anymore in Spain, for example.
>meritocracy
Are you trying to troll me? Because money and merit have two different deffinitions.
>freedom of religion
I'll give you that
>human rights
Except when you're in Guantanamo
>The leftism you subscribe to as an academic movement
Nigger, pls. You don't know shit about me. The fact that you have a black and white brain says nothing about me.
>was originally just radical Westernism
Yes.
>it didn't start to oppose Western values until Marx, but Rousseau and Charles Fourier as the epitome of Western values.
No, Marx just continues his branch of hegelianism. Marx never opposed western values (ewerll, he opposed private property, which I'd admit this is the only authentic western value if I had to). Well, actually, there are no "western values" as a monolithic thing. It's just bullshit that some people believe in.

[Anonymous No.6004148]

>Capture Jerusalem
>Invade all of North Africa and convert them
>Attempt genocide of Coptic Christians for 1400 years
>Wage several centuries of war within Spain
>Try to take over Medieval France
>Try to take over Constantinope in 717 (Result: Arabs get rekt by Bulgarians)
>Continually raid Sicily and Southern Italy
>Destroy great books which were painstakingly written by hand by Christian monks
>Destroy trade for the entire Mediterranean Sea
>Destroy land travel and the silk road leading to east Asia
>Capture Constantinople, turn Hagia Sophia into a Mosque
>Take over 1,000,000 Europeans as slaves during the Barbary Wars
>Spend half a millenia subjugating the Slavs, Albanians and Greeks
>genocide hazaras in afghanistan
>blow up 4th century statues of buddhas in the bamayan province as they aren't islamic
>stone women to death for "infidelity" and a long list of other "crimes"
>stone gays to death
>blow up world trade centre
>7/7 bombings in london
>madrid bombings
>mumbai bombings
>genocide entire villages in nigeria
>kidnap 200 schoolgirls and sell off as slaves
>murder an entire school in pakistan
>violent international riots against a stupid youtube video
>violent international riots against a stupid cartoon
>take 20 hostages in sydney, kill 2
>massacre 12 people over a stupid cartoon
>kidnap and murder 5 more
>1000 lashes and 10 years in prison for a saudi blogger who criticised islam

Meanwhile in the East
>Rape and murder Persians, destroying Zoroastrianism
>Rape and murder Kurds
>Rape and murder Hindus
>Rape and murder Buddhists
>Rape and murder Jews
>Rape and murder Yazidis
Just the work of a few deviants, mate.

[Anonymous No.6004162]

mi mums a mozlem but she don't support no violenc shud i kill her neway y/n answers pls m8s

[Anonymous No.6004166]

>>6004162
y

[Anonymous No.6004169]

>>6004144
Just because our values aren't 100%, to autistic sanctification made universal across the board, and are universally valued, or sometimes over lap and have to compromise, doesn't mean they aren't our values.

Your values, with which you are critiquing Western values, ARE Western values. You're just like a very religious person saying other people in your religion aren't nearly heedful enough of it, you are a Puritan of Western values, basically.

> Marx never opposed western values (ewerll, he opposed private property, which I'd admit this is the only authentic western value if I had to
Private property is hardly a "Western" value, everyone in ancient Persia was a legal slave of the King. Opposing private property, on the other hand, has quite a history in Western thought.

[Anonymous No.6004175]

>>6004169
>our values

Your values mate

[Anonymous No.6004179]

>>6004175
Yours too, your whole way of thinking is 100% a product of the Enlightenment,

[Anonymous No.6004180]

>>6004179
I don't believe in democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, individualism.

Those are your values maybe, not mine.

[Anonymous No.6004189]

>>6004180
This is only because you've found that Western values, taken too far, contradict, and so you've focused mainly on equality at the expense of all the rest, which you were inspired to do by a Western heresy, a cult of equality, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.6004194]

>>6004189
Please tell me more about how i think and what kind of person i am.

Obnoxious know-it-all.

[Anonymous No.6004198]

>>6004179
>implying /lit/'s parents didn't raise it in solely koine greek

[Anonymous No.6004210]

>>6003736
intelligent person reporting in
i think islams should be exderminated

[Anonymous No.6004211]

>>6004198
I don't think equality as a legal concern has much to do with the New Testament, despite Nietzsche's theory (or rather not his actual theory, but how people common understand his theory) Academically,. it had to do with the Classical movement and the adoration of idolization Athens, and to a lessor extent an infatuation with a romanticized conception of primitive man. In practice, a lot of it was just populism.

[Anonymous No.6004213]

>>6003736
Shouldn't you be asking them rather than us?

[Anonymous No.6004226]

>>6004213

>implying /lit/ isn't the biggest leftist shithole on 4chan

[Anonymous No.6004230]

>>6004226
Is that what's associated with intelligentsia nowadays?

[Anonymous No.6004245]

>>6004211
>implying /lit/'s parents didn't also pretend that this was the reign of Marcus Aurelius
>implying it's not explaining the joke because it's parents hired a slave to whisper shit about humility in /lit/'s ear as it strides across the Roman Empire's central form
Your posts make less sense than mine, anon. Think about that while your stroke your Nietzsche's guide to grammar.

[Anonymous No.6004255]

>>6004230

Yes.
Try to be cool in the humanities today with shit that isn't somewhat Marxist.

[Anonymous No.6004258]

>>6004255
Humanities is leftist, I wouldn't say Marxist, though. Marxism has been out of fashion since the 1970's

[Anonymous No.6004305]

If the West isn't the best, why do all these Middle Easterners and Mahgrebis want to immigrate to it so badly?


Checkmate, cultural relativists.

[Anonymous No.6004311]

>>6004305
We have more wealth and it spreads easier.

[Anonymous No.6004319]

>>6004305
Isn't Guinea the only place that wanted out when we asked them?

[Anonymous No.6004325]

>>6004311
Which is a result of Western culture.

[Anonymous No.6004336]

>>6004258
No, now they just call it neomarxist, postmarxist or some other bullshit.
It's stille marxism.

[Anonymous No.6004338]

chrisitanity is a warmongering religion as much as islam, it just had more time to develop.

>in god we trust
>muh god
>if you kill people with drones it somehow doesnt count as religious war bcuz the drone dont go to church lol dindu nuffins secular i swear

[Anonymous No.6004346]

>>6004338
>implying the wars in the middleeast has anything to do with christendom

[Anonymous No.6004352]

>>6004325
It's a result of industrialization, expropriating resources and outsourcing our labor. Industrialization could be seen as part of our "culture", but I wouldn't really think of it like that, China doesn't become culturally "more Western" by industrializing.

[Anonymous No.6004354]

>>6004336
How the hell is it Marxism?

[Anonymous No.6004356]

>>6004346
Shut up Pilate

[Anonymous No.6004367]

>>6004352
Industrialization doesn't happen without the scientific revolution which was dependent upon the prestige and leadership position attributed to reason which has been one of the cornerstones of Western civilization since le Greeks

[Anonymous No.6004372]

>>6004346
for the banking families no, for the plebs almost everything everything
how is bringing them muh way of life, muh freedoms and values not a religious war? they are chrisitan values afrer all

[Anonymous No.6004376]

>>6004346
>implying the historical use of Christendom is not in the context of the early to middle medieval wars against Islam and other heretics
what are you attempting here?

[Anonymous No.6004387]

>>6003736
true marxists, like Charlie Hebdo still think religion is an opiate and should be demoralized. This was Charlies' mission statement, they were true leftists
The problem is that the left is being corroded by this shitty post-colonialist, post-modern, anti-revolutionary shit.

[Anonymous No.6004389]

>>6004089
>Like capitalism? We don't have values.
Your Neo-Neo-Neo-Neo-Neo-Neo-Colonialism is showing. Please cover it up, it's very shameful.

[Anonymous No.6004392]

>>6004367
It wasn't a cornerstone of Western civ after the Christianization of Rome until the Renaissance. Yes, reason played a big part in Western civ, but no more than it did in Middle East civ.

[Anonymous No.6004402]

>>6004144
The very fact you are criticizing the West for not fully, 100% living up to these values 24/7 regardless of any negative consequences of carrying them out shows you, as a Westerner, highly value these principles.

[Anonymous No.6004404]

>>6004387
It's like you're trying to break Frege with #hashtags. 10/10 would be convinced you hadn't read a book since that sci fi novella when you were ten.

[Anonymous No.6004409]

>>6004389
>values
>everything goes into le trash when convenient
>le machiavelli face

[Anonymous No.6004416]

Right wingers are always wrong.
Right wingers hate Islam no matter what.
Therefore, the correct opinion is to love Islam no matter what.

[Anonymous No.6004433]

Because it's superior to Christianity.

[Anonymous No.6004441]

>>6004082
Shut the fuck up because the people who are willing to die are what matter, not the people telling them where to kill and die. Hitler wasn't just some crazy guy saying kill the joos and just by some chance he became leader of the world. Ugh, just kill yourself

[Anonymous No.6004444]

>>6004404
What does Frege has to do with tis?

[Anonymous No.6004448]

I think Islam is pretty good. It might even be better for the West than Christianity. That said, I couldn't bear to have Islam take over here, but I would like to see people leave the middle east alone and get on with their own affairs in whatever ways they see fit as long as it doesn't affect us or our allies.

[Anonymous No.6004449]

>>6004367

No worthwhile historian takes notions like that seriously anymore. Weber and others proposed things like this because they didn't know 'non-Western' intellectual traditions well enough to realize that there was nothing uniquely rational about pre-modern Western thought.

[Anonymous No.6004453]

>>6004210
Why just their skins?

[Anonymous No.6004460]

I think people finally realized that if people are trying to rationalize mortality in a meaningful way, then they should respect it.

[Anonymous No.6004466]

>>6004449
ah of course nobody is rational or informed except the people who agree with you
seems legit

[Anonymous No.6004467]

>>6004144
>like that french comedian
That's because he's black. He'd be fine if he was a jew. (fine, or maybe just dead?)

[Anonymous No.6004469]

>>6004449
The certainly was, in the Middle East. And modern Western rationalism was about a revival of ancient Greek rationalism. And so you have, like, the entire Christian era being without rationalism, which lasted a lot longer than the time lasted since. So to say reason is distinctly Western is silly.

[Anonymous No.6004476]

>>6004338
As if what the psychopaths in the CIA do reflect a country as a whole. Calling christianity a warmongering religion when http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/

Stuck on culture when the offspring of immigrants are joining ISIS against the wishes of their parents and definitely against the wishes of the society as a whole they live in.

You're a moron on all fronts.