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5961093 No.5961093 [Reply] [Original]

We can all agree that postmodernism is bullshit, right?

>> No.5961099

How post-modern of you.

>> No.5961101

>>5961093
What aspect? 'Bullshit' in what sense?

>> No.5961102

IU'm liking all that argumentation, OP. You don't sound like a morron at all.

>> No.5961103

>>5961093
Who is this "we" you speak of?

>> No.5961110

>>5961093
this, but as you know, my god, the exact opposite

>> No.5961127

>>5961102
>>5961101
Bullshit because it overemphasizes subjective societal values, and it is preachy about those values.

>> No.5961132

But are they wrong? Its mostly just poking at how humans are the ones who shaped their own world and so you can't look at things from a non human perspective.

>> No.5961136

>>5961132
But you should still strive to be as inhuman as possible, since every perspective that revels in its humanity strays invariably far from the truth of things. Maybe it's impossible for humans to really perceive that truth, but we should seek it out and try to come close to it, because otherwise there is no grounding for us to declare anything of worth.

If objective truth did not exist it would be necessary to invent it.

>> No.5961142

>>5961127
what have you read to support this silly idea? Derrida? Foucault? Barthes at the very least?

>>5961132
That's historical materialism, like a century before more or less

>> No.5961155

>>5961136
>If objective truth did not exist it would be necessary to invent it.
>that invention wouldn't be the same as a subjective
>a lie is better than intersubjectivity
how old are you?

>> No.5961157

i think a better statement would be "We can all agree that our definitions of postmodernism do not agree"

>> No.5961165

>>5961157
They tend to get closer the more you read the related authors.

>> No.5961186

>>5961142
Kripgate is the worst offender.

>> No.5961193

>>5961165
i dont even know what post modernism is. Im not being ironic or anything i have never heard an actual definition. Just a reaction to one of its symptoms by the person whos dodging explain what it is

>> No.5961196

>>5961093
It is, but it wasn't long ago.
It was a fair reaction to modern formal precision and kicking out of the table the idea of progress in arts, developing through the process a lot of conceptual art which made us question the meaning of what we thought given and obvious.

But their point is made, we got it. Now cut it off.

>> No.5961197

>>5961193
Less organic reaction to modernism.

>> No.5961204

>>5961186
>Kripgate
Did you invent that name or you're gonna provide reference material?

>> No.5961208

>>5961204
>being this pleb

>> No.5961220

>>5961197
Less organic than what? Modernism? What do you mean by organic? Is everything that's less organic than modernism and reacts to modernism necessarily postmodern? I want to be clear what we both think that we're saying before I agree or disagree with you.

>> No.5961245

>>5961193
It's the obvious result of many of the ideas that started with the enlightenment like the universality of european values, the promise of a golden future at the end of some revolution, positivist objectivity, and some other stuff.
If you don't read the propper authors you're obviously not gonna know about the subject. Do you demand to understand every difference between basic physics and quantum without reading anything? Look around for some Barthes, he's quite accesible and short although he almost exclusively writes about narratology. If you're decided to read a longer text, but equally accesible, Foucault is your man.

>>5961196
>Now cut it off.
Postmodernism remains strong in europe with expanded ideas about intersubjectivity and the value of metaphysical concepts and shit. It's the US that only took DEADOFTHEAUTHOR and LOLSELFREFERENCE.

>>5961197
>modernism
>organic
>forced by a burgoise that wanted philosophical vlaidation to take down the king
>saying that europe is always right is organic for the human race
I'm exagerating, but I really don't see how it is particularly inorganic.

>>5961208
I'm not seeing the reference material, I don't bring up authors from my country because I'm aware you won't know them, and I still can find at least one englisha rticle by Eduardo Gruner.

>> No.5961252

>>5961220
see this guy gets it, I posted the original question of what is post modernism and that definition is lacking.

complex ideas might not be able to be summed up in a few words or a few paragraphs for that matter but post modernism is the worst offender.

dialectics, slave morality, flungedness, alienation all philosophical terms that cant be summed up in a few words but they have been successfully defined. Post modernism has not

>> No.5961287

>>5961093
define 'modern'

>> No.5961294
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5961294

Well, since Truth is very much a real thing, of course it's bullshit.

>> No.5961312

I still don't get what postmodernism actually is

I keep seeing people throw it around and when I ask what it is they give some sort of really vague definition of it or spout a bunch of buzzwords

>> No.5961320

>>5961312
That's really postmodern

>> No.5961330

>>5961252
So you posted a question and congratulate someone for saying that the definition is lacking?
I answered to another poster in >>5961245
It's not that hard to understand most of the main lines in post-modernism if you have some understanding of the situation before it.

>> No.5961350

Postmodernism is actually the result of a CIA experiment to weaponize irony. They accidentally created a new way of looking at the world, and it got lose. It could spread through any form of information and it went ice-9 on all of human culture.

Any attempt to criticize or counter postmodernism will in fact, be just another expression of it. You can't escape, just accept it.

>> No.5961383

>>5961312
Congratulations! You have unconsciously utilized the "define x" meme, a meme very popular on this very board though its origins are lost in the mists of academia. But where is the definition of postmodernism to be found? In some rambling, incomprehensible essay by Foucault? In a performance art piece of someone shitting on a picture of Jesus? Or maybe postmodernism is reflected in this very imageboard? Who knows! If one thing's for certain, it will give university professors fodder to kick around for decades to come!

>> No.5961389

>>5961383
>In some rambling, incomprehensible essay by Foucault

Foucault writes clearly and concisely though.

>> No.5961409

>>5961312
I would say that Derrida's Sign, Structure, and Play does as good of a job as can be done of detailing the event of postmodernism. Basically, structures of meaning were thought to be stable with some definite center that gave the structure coherence and uniformity.

Then at some point (look at say Nietzsche, though Derrida doesn't say Nietzsche himself brought this along), people realized that structures of meaning had centers that were moving around and the structures were changing shape.

X just didn't refer to A, B, C, D and stayed that way. Now X referred to B, E, F, G. Now Y referred to A, B, C, D. All this in an infinite chain. And each "A...B...C..." is a structure in themselves, being "centers" that refer to 1, 2, 3, 4. Then they start to refer to 5, 6, 7. All this in an infinite chain.

And people as active interpreters "playing" with meaning are doing this.

>> No.5961456

pomo is just a genre label publishers started to push after academics started using the term. it is supposed to mean the book is 'deep' and deals with 'philosophical' shit, when its basically just surrealism. i am sure in philosophy the notion of pomo has its own meaning but when it comes to novels the notion is usually applied rather than stated i.e. no writer really calls their work pomo but publishers love to tack it on. whatever pomo stood for or was should have died close to the 80s when irony became the in-thing to sprinkle your novel with but somehow pomo co-opted the shit out of irony and has been growing ever since. why? well because it really is undefinable and seems to have taken being undefinable as its modus operandi. imo it has condensed books into making them as batshit and convoluted as possible. some people like that, sure, but to hold that as the pinnacle of what an intellectual novel should be? bite me.

>> No.5961507
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5961507

Is Stirner a Post-Structuralist?

>> No.5961519

>>5961507
He doesn't touch the subject and came before structuralism. No. Stop being stupid, it's not cute.

>> No.5961569

>>5961409
Don't try, the point of the thread is pretending that things they haven't studied aren't definable because they haven't studied them.

>> No.5961590

>>5961093
>We can all agree that
psh, grand narratives are dead, kid

>> No.5961599

>>5961507
i really, really like this picture

>> No.5961626

>>5961507
Yeah, I guess technically, isn't that what spooks are essentially?

>> No.5961877
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5961877

>>5961093
which of the three postmoderns is you speak of

>> No.5961983

>>5961877
is that Hegel?

>> No.5962027

It doesnt actually matter. Any defiance just propogates it.

>> No.5962046
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5962046

>>5961983
whether that's Hegel, a representation of Hegel, or a simulacra depends on whether you subscribe to postmodernism and which kind of postmodernism it is.

>> No.5962066

>>5961569
how many postmodern novels must one have read to have 'studied' the authorial philosophical underpinnings of postmodernism?

>> No.5962247

Is there a postmodern metaphysics ?

>> No.5962270

>>5962247
obviously not

>> No.5962279

>>5961186
What are you talking about? One of the first things that comes up on a Google search for "kripgate" is this thread.

>> No.5962679

>>5961983
it's vaporgeist

>> No.5962972

>>5961186
>the worst offender
You have to pick the best offender if you want to offer a good critique. Anything from religion to science to philosophy to literature can be dismissed by picking the worst instance of it.

>> No.5962984

>>5961409
>Derrida's Sign, Structure, and Play
>the event of postmodernism
Jesus, that's post-structuralism not postmodernism.

Post-modernism is a historical era that many post-structuralists criticize, like Deleuze's critique of capitalism.

>> No.5963013

>>5962984
postmodernism and the postmodern era reflexively define each other but are, in fact, two different concepts. Postmodernism relates to certain aesthetic, political, social forms whereas the postmodern era relates to the historical era in which these forms exist.

>> No.5963039

>>5963013
The difference you're making here is irrelevant to that post.