What is the solution to the Trolley Problem?

File: 47 KB, 506x267, 6a00d83451cdc869e2019101c46a5f970c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:28:03 2015 No.5951373 [Reply] [Original]

What is the solution to the Trolley Problem?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:28:55 2015 No.5951377 Superior reliance on solar technology for wind-based transportation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:29:04 2015 No.5951382 >>5951373 Kill the one you fucking autist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:30:50 2015 No.5951391 >>5951373 Ban all trains

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:31:27 2015 No.5951394 >>5951373 its in the language no literally there is no problem and there is no solution

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:31:48 2015 No.5951398 Kill the train

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:31:52 2015 No.5951399 >>5951382 I bet you'd feel differently if you were the one strapped to the rail.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:32:00 2015 No.5951401 deepthroat the handle

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:32:56 2015 No.5951409 >>5951399 Probably not. I hate my life.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:33:00 2015 No.5951411 >>5951382 >utilitarians

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:34:11 2015 No.5951415 >>5951399 And I'd feel great if I were one of the blokes on the bottom. What's your point?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:34:16 2015 No.5951416 File: 37 KB, 506x267, ps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I fixed your problem anon

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:36:35 2015 No.5951435 >>5951416 How does smearing doo-doo on their faces change the situation?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:36:36 2015 No.5951436 >>5951373 Full communism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:37:26 2015 No.5951438 >>5951416 Edgy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:37:31 2015 No.5951439 >>5951373 Some lives are more valuable than others. It is up to you to determine if the one is worth saving over the five. If you are unsure, it is statistically better to kill the one.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:37:33 2015 No.5951440 File: 719 KB, 1000x667, 1398795319943.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951435 They are supposed to be darkies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:38:10 2015 No.5951444 >>5951435 Now they're clearly white supremacists doing blackface. They deserve to die.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:39:02 2015 No.5951447 the doctor is a woman

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:39:38 2015 No.5951453 File: 70 KB, 800x600, 1419934483339.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951416 I'd axe my entire bloodline to death if it'd allow me to avoid being accused of racism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:40:06 2015 No.5951458 >>5951440 How the fuck do you fail that hard at Paint?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:40:15 2015 No.5951460 >>5951373 Clearly you must kill the 4. 4 body's are more likely to slow the trolley and prevent further collateral damage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:41:27 2015 No.5951464 File: 8 KB, 245x279, 1419977613622.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951460 >4

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:41:33 2015 No.5951467 >>5951460 5, you fucking aspie.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:41:46 2015 No.5951469 >>5951415 How can you say it's ethical to kill the one to save the five when you wouldn't make the same decision if you were that one person?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:43:30 2015 No.5951482 It's clearly the driver's fault, whichever way it goes. What we have to do is shoot the driver before he gets away and so restore justice. Then all weighed, nothing bad will have happened at all.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:44:31 2015 No.5951486 File: 55 KB, 400x257, free-johnsons-baby-relief-kit-2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951464 >>5951467 >getting this upset >5 is even better for the situation

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:45:15 2015 No.5951488 >>5951469 My life > 5 other people > 1 other person I mean it'd be just as ethical to kill me, I just wouldn't like it that much.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:45:58 2015 No.5951491 Simply allow it to take the course it was meant to take; you have no reason to alter what God has already willed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:47:40 2015 No.5951499 File: 3.82 MB, 1872x1273, SpencerCGIpromo (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951491 >the only right answer in the whole thread.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:50:55 2015 No.5951516 >>5951460 Aside from the Typo, this is the correct answer. Fuck the Police.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:52:00 2015 No.5951519 >>5951491 but what if god willed me to kill the person?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:52:58 2015 No.5951526 File: 34 KB, 506x267, conundrum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:54:25 2015 No.5951531 >>5951499 I hope you're trolling. To assume that not taking action would be following God's will is disgustingly arrogant and presumptuous.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:54:40 2015 No.5951533 File: 109 KB, 959x573, solution.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:55:02 2015 No.5951537 >>5951526 new atheist

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:56:31 2015 No.5951546 >>5951373 Switch it to the side with one person and then then and pull him off the track.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 22:57:43 2015 No.5951553 Do nothing

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:01:46 2015 No.5951570 >>5951533 Oh man oh man...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:02:05 2015 No.5951571 >>5951553 But once you've been confronted with the situation and the possibility to change it, doing nothing is a decision to kill the one.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:03:08 2015 No.5951579 >>5951571 The five, I mean.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:04:29 2015 No.5951587 >>5951373 1) Nothing because the trolley isn't connected to any electrical source and isn't moving. 2) Depends who the one person is, how important they are, etc. 3) The one person, utilitarian style

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:08:04 2015 No.5951608 The Jokes on you, the trolley only activates when you pull the lever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:08:17 2015 No.5951609 File: 328 KB, 1353x976, DenshaDeD_ch01p16-17.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:09:12 2015 No.5951611 >>5951394 Hello Wittgenstein.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:10:41 2015 No.5951617 >>5951571 Naw man, by that same logic, I am responsible for every death conceivable in the world. I could be in Africa, helping little niglets not get aids, but I'm not. Murder is an action, I have to act, to do something, to initiate a murder.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:12:10 2015 No.5951621 >>5951491 What if, and I'm just spit balling here, god didn't give two shits who my cousin Jimmy tied to a rail. God gives you free will. Somebody used their free will to create that situation. Now i can use mine to save four lives.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:13:03 2015 No.5951626 Inaction is a choice. Blood will be on your hands either way. Kill the one.

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:16:59 2015 No.5951645

>>5951617
There's no assurance or even reasonable expectation that giving up your life to go do volunteer work in Africa will actually save any lives. It's an abstract possibility. With the trolley problem there's no ambiguity -- you're standing next to the lever, you have the strength to pull it, and you know pulling it will divert its path. Saying that doing nothing isn't an action is like not shaking someone's hand when they extend theirs to you and saying "I didn't choose not to shake your hand, I just didn't choose to."

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:17:26 2015 No.5951647

>>5951626
>Inaction is a choice.
Inaction is a choice, but it's a morally neutral choice. I have no duty to my fellow man. I only have a duty to help someone else if I put that person into the situation.

Just ask yourself this question: If I stopped existing, would those people still die? Yes of course they would. I, existing and being there, do not affect the course of their destiny.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:17:59 2015 No.5951649 >>5951394 Elaborate.

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:20:32 2015 No.5951657

>>5951645
>There's no assurance or even reasonable expectation that giving up your life to go do volunteer work in Africa will actually save any lives.
There's no assurance if I pull the lever that the train will turn in the other direction. Or that if I try to turn the lever that it will turn and not jam.

>It's an abstract possibility.
What the fuck do you think this is? It's a thought experiment.

>With the trolley problem there's no ambiguity -- you're standing next to the lever, you have the strength to pull it, and you know pulling it will divert its path.
Yes, no and no. Assuming yes, yes and yes. I could equally say that since I have the opportunity to save those niglets, I should. I might not be able to save every one of them, but I'd reasonably be able to save a few. I could save little Tyrone from starving if I just sell everything I have and donate to the red cross or something.

>Saying that doing nothing isn't an action is like not shaking someone's hand when they extend theirs to you and saying "I didn't choose not to shake your hand, I just didn't choose to."
I don't get how this is any sort of response. It's a choice, but it isn't a physical action. If I wasn't there and he extended his hand, he'd still not be shaking anything.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:21:45 2015 No.5951662 >>5951647 If the person who tied them to the tracks died suddenly, the five would still die. Even though the man put them into that situation, his existence has no important. Each man is given equal opportunity, thus, they are equally responsible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:22:03 2015 No.5951663 >>5951409 Sorry man. I hope you find something to live for.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:23:29 2015 No.5951668 Train comin' round the beeeennd

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:25:21 2015 No.5951673 >>5951526 The new atheist is probably just some edgy kid that won't do much harm The tripfags are mentally ill

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:25:26 2015 No.5951675

>>5951662
>If the person who tied them to the tracks died suddenly, the five would still die.
Yes.

>Even though the man put them into that situation, his existence has no important.
No, it's very important because I don't carry the sins of other men.

>Each man is given equal opportunity, thus, they are equally responsible.
This does not follow in any rational way. That's like me saying I'm rational when Kim Jong Un shoots some North Koreans or when ISIS beheads Christians.
>we're all human beans therefore we're all responsible for each other

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:26:25 2015 No.5951680 File: 233 KB, 1798x848, trolley.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:27:56 2015 No.5951687 >>5951469 I would. I'm not suicidal, I love being alive, but I will die someday and in this situation I would sadly agree that my death would be better than five other deaths. My belief in God would definitely help make this decision though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:28:08 2015 No.5951689 Semtex

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:29:18 2015 No.5951693 >>5951680 Well Wittgenstein and Spinoza were Jews, so I doubt he'll turn the lever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:35:26 2015 No.5951716 >>5951680 I'd pull the lever. However many jokes I may make, I'm pretty indebted to Beauvoir and co. for the cool culture I live in now.

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:38:08 2015 No.5951736

>>5951675
You don't have to be responsible for the sins of the other men to be held responsible for the death of four extra people.
You were there. You had the opportunity to intervene. You chose not to. Those people died because you didn't.
The man had the option not to tie them to the track. He didn't. They died. Therefore he is responsible. You had the opportunity to save five people. You didn't. You are responsible.

Both of you had two choices to make. Both of them ended with five people dying. You are both equally responsible.

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:38:38 2015 No.5951741

There's only one correct choice, I'm surprised no one has suggested it yet:

1. Close eyes
2. Begin rapidly switching the lever back and forth as fast as you can
3. Keep doing this until the train passes by and eventually goes off into the distance
4. Turn your back to the tracks and walk off.

This is the best thing to do.

You don't know who got run over.

If you believe in fate, you can assume that fate decided who died, not you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:38:58 2015 No.5951746 >>5951716 How did she influence any culture at all?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:39:59 2015 No.5951751 >>5951741 >2. Begin rapidly switching the lever back and forth as fast as you can The train derails killing everyone, including you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:42:28 2015 No.5951767 Imagine a police officer arrived on the scene immediately after you made your decision and the person/people were already dead. Would you be arrested? How would it play out in court?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:43:36 2015 No.5951774 Just pull the lever halfway so the train may crash and all people die , including the Trainer driver all people survive by coincidence. Since coincidences arent your fault you made the right decision...

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:44:18 2015 No.5951780

if it's me tied with the other 4, then the morally correct action is to kill the singlet

if I'm the singlet then the morally correct action is to do nothing and let the 5 splat

if I'm the lever pusher I don't give a fuck shove it up my ass and jack off to the incoming gorefest

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:44:22 2015 No.5951781 >>5951767 the press would have a field day

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:44:48 2015 No.5951784 >>5951774 *train driver

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:46:00 2015 No.5951795 >>5951767 depends on what bias the media wants to use against you. >HEROIC WOMAN SAVES THE LIVES OF 5 PEOPLE BY DIVERTING TRAIN or >MAN MURDERS HELPLESS VICTIM WHO WAS TIED DOWN TO TRAIN TRACKS

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:46:39 2015 No.5951800 Switch, then switch again while the car is changing tracks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:47:22 2015 No.5951802 >>5951780 >MAN SHOVED LEVER UP HIS ASS WHILE MASTURBATING AS HE WATCHED FIVE PEOPLE GET RUN OVER BY A TRAIN

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:51:08 2015 No.5951822

The moral thing is to kill the one and sacrifice your innocence than be a pussy and let five die and sacrifice your innocence, the accepted "moral" position of letting five die assumes you won't feel guilty for not interfering but you'll feel guilty no matter what

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:51:45 2015 No.5951826 >>5951746 By being a major social commentator in her time and after?

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:52:08 2015 No.5951829

>>5951736
>You don't have to be responsible for the sins of the other men to be held responsible for the death of four extra people.
Here's the thing, I don't.

>You were there. You had the opportunity to intervene. You chose not to. Those people died because you didn't.
You have the opportunity to do a lot of things, but there are opportunity costs. Pulling the lever means that I kill a person. By pulling that lever, I lose that other person. You're not explaining why I'm responsible at all. Just because I have an opportunity doesn't mean I'm responsible. Everyone has the opportunity to do anything they want. The odds of success are higher and lower depending on what you want to do. There is no absolute guarantee for anything in life, and even if there was, that has no implication of morality.

NAP, don't harm, don't threaten, don't commit fraud. Those are the three moral guidelines that I have to follow. These are the only three guide lines I can reasonably expect other human beings to keep up with. Whether it be for deontological or utilitarian reasons, I should only expect other people not to violate my property rights (on my body, home, land, et cetera). That's it.

>The man had the option not to tie them to the track. He didn't. They died. Therefore he is responsible. You had the opportunity to save five people. You didn't. You are responsible.
You're confusing terms and conflating things. He didn't have the opportunity to not tie them to the track. That was, by default, the natural consequence regardless of whether he chose against it or if he didn't exist. An opportunity is a potential, choosing not to do something is not a potential, it is by default what will happen. By definition, having the opportunity means having circumstances that allow you to do something that you'd normally not be able to do. It's kind of a misnomer within itself, but generally when we say we have the opportunity to do something, what we really mean is that we have the increased probability to do that thing. If I say, "I have the opportunity to go to the moon" when NASA offers me to go on their spaceship, I'm not actually saying that it was previously impossible to go to the moon without NASA's offer. I could imagine a scenario where I go into college, pop out with an EE degree, apply at NASA, apply for their astronaut program, and go to the moon. It's not very likely, but by all means it is possible. However, getting an offer from NASA increases that opportunity's probability by magnitudes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:52:12 2015 No.5951830 >>5951680 This is difficult decision. On the one hand I could save based Fred and Kierkegaard. Camus is alright too. On the other hand, I wouldn't be killing Sartre.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:55:06 2015 No.5951850 >>5951680 I'd sacrifice Nietzsche and Camus to kill Beauvoir.

Anonymous Sun Jan 4 23:55:39 2015 No.5951854

>>5951736
>Both of you had two choices to make. Both of them ended with five people dying. You are both equally responsible.
You're not defining your terms in any meaningful way. And you're skipping huge steps in logic. Let me just break down why it's such a shitty argument.

>All men who Tie people to tracks are men who have Opportunity.
>All men who Tie people to tracks are not men that left those people Untied.
>All Innocents tied are people that Died.
Therefore all men who Tie people to tracks are men that are Responsible.

>All men who are You are men who have Opportunity.
>All men who are You are not men that Saved those people.
Therefore All men who are You are men that are Responsible.

Let me break this down into a simple logical argument:
>All T are O.
>All T are U.
>All I are D.
Therefore all T are R.

And from that argument, you infer:
>All Y are O.
>All Y are S
Therefore All Y are R.

The conclusions do not follow from the premises. You have no logic on your side.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:02:03 2015 No.5951892 Scenario: The five people are all lower-middle class, but they are all parents with children and spouses who love them. The one person is a billionaire and by saving him, he will give you $500 million.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:03:37 2015 No.5951897 is there a reading list for the background issues surrounding this problem

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:03:41 2015 No.5951899 >>5951892 This is just a lame version of this one >>5951533

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:17:21 2015 No.5951952

(1/2)

Consider the following case:
On Twin Earth, a brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley. There are only two options that the brain can take: the right side of the fork in the track or the left side of the fork. There is no way in sight of derailing or stopping the trolley and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows trolleys. The brain is causally hooked up to the trolley such that the brain can determine the course which the trolley will take.

On the right side of the track there is a single railroad worker, Jones, who will definitely be killed if the brain steers the trolley to the right. If the railman on the right lives, he will go on to kill five men for the sake of killing them, but in doing so will inadvertently save the lives of thirty orphans (one of the five men he will kill is planning to destroy a bridge that the orphans' bus will be crossing later that night). One of the orphans that will be killed would have grown up to become a tyrant who would make good utilitarian men do bad things. Another of the orphans would grow up to become G.E.M. Anscombe, while a third would invent the pop-top can.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:18:28 2015 No.5951954

(2/2)

If the brain in the vat chooses the left side of the track, the trolley will definitely hit and kill a railman on the left side of the track, "Leftie" and will hit and destroy ten beating hearts on the track that could (and would) have been transplanted into ten patients in the local hospital that will die without donor hearts. These are the only hearts available, and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows hearts. If the railman on the left side of the track lives, he too will kill five men, in fact the same five that the railman on the right would kill. However, "Leftie" will kill the five as an unintended consequence of saving ten men: he will inadvertently kill the five men rushing the ten hearts to the local hospital for transplantation. A further result of "Leftie's" act would be that the busload of orphans will be spared. Among the five men killed by "Leftie" are both the man responsible for putting the brain at the controls of the trolley, and the author of this example. If the ten hearts and "Leftie" are killed by the trolley, the ten prospective heart-transplant patients will die and their kidneys will be used to save the lives of twenty kidney-transplant patients, one of whom will grow up to cure cancer, and one of whom will grow up to be Hitler. There are other kidneys and dialysis machines available, however the brain does not know kidneys, and this is not a factor.

Assume that the brain's choice, whatever it turns out to be, will serve as an example to other brains-in-vats and so the effects of his decision will be amplified. Also assume that if the brain chooses the right side of the fork, an unjust war free of war crimes will ensue, while if the brain chooses the left fork, a just war fraught with war crimes will result. Furthermore, there is an intermittently active Cartesian demon deceiving the brain in such a manner that the brain is never sure if it is being deceived.

QUESTION: What should the brain do?

[ALTERNATIVE EXAMPLE: Same as above, except the brain has had a commisurotomy, and the left half of the brain is a consequentialist and the right side is an absolutist.]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:19:37 2015 No.5951958 There is no one solution. We lack information, so it's only value is mental masturbation, really.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:20:08 2015 No.5951960 >>5951394 witty

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:22:48 2015 No.5951974 >>5951680 witty and spinoza are jews but kant is so righteous and morally superior that the merchant will choose to kill that party and let the existentialist run amok to ruin the world.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:23:49 2015 No.5951979 >>5951746 she made student rape hip

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:24:08 2015 No.5951980 I do not give a shit, it does not matter whether the people would have been ran over

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:34:35 2015 No.5952019 >>5951751 underrated post

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:44:48 2015 No.5952046 This question is a loaded question. >If your relative is on that railway, would your choice still the same? Don't say you are going to sacrifice your relative.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 00:58:04 2015 No.5952081 >>5951974 Wittgenstein wasn't Jewish

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:02:11 2015 No.5952094 The same solution to any inane "philosophical dilemma": you flip a coin

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:40:12 2015 No.5952271 >>5951533 going over the four people would likely make it loose speed. Therefore it wouldn't be able to do the loop

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:42:09 2015 No.5952278 it was god's will whether you leave it alone or flip the switch

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:43:15 2015 No.5952282

>>5951373

Kill the one.

The 'problem' is that people don't want to be directly responsible for killing anyone. If you don't pull the lever, you didn't do anything.

This is for illogical, emotional faggots, and women. Any man would pull the lever, and sleep soundly that night without another thought of the incident.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:43:26 2015 No.5952283 >>5951469 It doesn't matter - I'm not the one at the lever; what I want is irrelevant to the decision Leverman makes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:48:01 2015 No.5952293 >>5952278 >tfw the trolley problem proves god is a sadist

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:56:21 2015 No.5952320 >>5951526 if kitty is among the tripfags do it. hell even if you just get buttershite it would be worth it

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 01:59:25 2015 No.5952328

>>5952282

>Any man would pull the lever, and sleep soundly that night without another thought of the incident.

no matter what you do, if your decision didn't eat you at you for the rest of your life and drive you to alcoholism and eventually suicide, then you aren't human.

correct answer is to throw yourself in front of the trolley, too much pressure

>>	H.Q.S.S.G Mon Jan 5 02:04:33 2015 No.5952347 >>5951526 kill the trips

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:04:51 2015 No.5952348

>>5951373
It's simple math guys. Watch:

>be presented with situation
>don't know what the lever is set at currently, thus you don't know who will die whether it be 1 or 5
>walk away
>you now only have to worry about plus/minus 5
> if potentially 5 die, potentially 5 live
> 5 minus 5 = 0
> 0 people died or lived due in part to you
> solved

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:27:35 2015 No.5952414 Do any of the people strapped to the rails mean anything to me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:29:30 2015 No.5952418 >>5952414 nope

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:30:24 2015 No.5952420 >>5952271 Leave it to /sci/ to turn this into some lame physics problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:33:52 2015 No.5952431 File: 120 KB, 1118x596, 1400275567054.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:36:14 2015 No.5952435 >>5952431 why?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:37:19 2015 No.5952436 File: 78 KB, 880x546, problem.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Not so easy now, huh /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:38:15 2015 No.5952438 >>5952436 No, it's very easy. I can't make the fucking decision anymore you idiot. I just gotta lay there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:38:31 2015 No.5952440 >>5952431 One of them has to pull the lever so that the six will survive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:39:47 2015 No.5952443 >>5952438 Be a little less pragmatic. What decision would you want the switch operator to make?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 02:46:17 2015 No.5952452 >>5952443 Me. But just because I have a romantic notion of human existence and shit. Truly though, no one can make this choice nor should they.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:12:23 2015 No.5952496 >>5952436 But if I'm tied to the tracks, how do I affect the trolley?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:22:28 2015 No.5952501 >>5952496 Can you read the thread?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:28:51 2015 No.5952512 >>5952496 This. Though that poor person is going to be pissed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:29:35 2015 No.5952516 >>5951373 Kill one to save four if people are watching. Let the four die if they're not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:33:18 2015 No.5952524 Don't u just untie the one guy and let it go that way

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:37:11 2015 No.5952526 >>5952512 >>5952496 You guys are late, someone mentioned this problem already >>5952438 Also, >>5952348 covers it nicely, in my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:41:46 2015 No.5952533 >>5952348 >don't know what the lever is set at currently you can easily tell by looking at the tracks which way it's set for the train to go. you're wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:44:12 2015 No.5952540 >>5952533 By looking at the picture, can you tell me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:45:15 2015 No.5952544 >>5952540 >we are stick figures living in a drawing fuck off stupid shit, you're not as clever as you thought with your shit and incorrect solution

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:46:15 2015 No.5952547 >>5952533 >>5952544 #rekt fucking twice with dubs m8. it's over, you're finished

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:47:03 2015 No.5952549 File: 167 KB, 1600x1163, shinji_ikari_by_heero89-d372xf0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951373 Let the three die. If you let the one man die, you are at fault for his death. If you do nothing, you are at fault for the death of no one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:48:03 2015 No.5952550 >>5952549 >intentionally letting people die >not at fault

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:49:45 2015 No.5952553 >>5952550 I have absolutely no obligation to do anything at the scene of the tracks. If I interact with the scene at all, I am involved in it and I am at fault for what occurs there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:52:35 2015 No.5952557 >>5952553 >have ability to help >actively neglect to >b-but muh passive behavior that's like being armed and faced with a criminal and his hostage and walking away. being too much of a pussy to act doesn't negate your being a part of the situation

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:56:07 2015 No.5952569 >>5952557 I disagree. If I'm not involved its not my problem. I'm not part of the natural flow of events that are pre-destined.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 03:57:36 2015 No.5952573 >>5952569 >pre-destined you're an idiot. I hope someone you love is killed because someone was as big of a pussy as you and didn't act when they had a responsibility to

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:01:25 2015 No.5952575 >>5952573 >>5952557 Only solution is to not be in the situation. Never go outside. Stay in your room. Lock your door. Read your books. Remain paranoid.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:02:05 2015 No.5952576
File: 10 KB, 300x229, 46625-16_c221_hell_train_large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5952573

The single man deserves to live because he is going to survive. If I make him die in favor of the others, I am betraying him. Letting the others die is preferable because it is already going to happen to them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:04:05 2015 No.5952578 >>5952576 >denying your fate of being there to save them >being this fucking stupid how the fuck do you not understand that having the ability to save the 5, but not doing so is the same as condemning them to die yourself

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:04:31 2015 No.5952579 >>5952576 >betraying What? Did you sign a mutual agreement before hand about how you'd help him out in any ethically sketchy, trolley-related problems he may be in? I bet he slipped you a 5 too. Fucking traitors, you make me sick.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:08:18 2015 No.5952586
File: 355 KB, 1000x1500, benthamAutoIcon1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5952578

Why do they deserve to be saved? How are they any greater than the one man?

Also you are basically claiming I have the responsibility to save people. I have no reason to save them.

>>5952579

He was already going to live. What I am betraying is his fate, what is going to occur to him. I'm interfering with his fate. That is betrayal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:10:59 2015 No.5952588 well i can tell you that the solution to the trolley problem is NOT atheism! atheist morals is an oxymoron

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:11:27 2015 No.5952589

>>5952586
>betrayal
no, betrayal is essential promise-breaking, and that's not going on here. what is going on here is you're being too much of a bitch to act, and want to save yourself the responsibility of deciding someones fate, when in reality, either decision you make decides someones fate, and you're shitty decision maximizes death

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:13:29 2015 No.5952595 >>5952589 So what do you choose? I'm not the guy you're yelling at by the way

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:14:58 2015 No.5952598 >>5952595 well if i found myself in that shitty situation, without knowing anything about the people or any other information, i'd switch the track over to the one guy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:19:53 2015 No.5952601 >>5952589 I used 'betrayal' for the lack of a better word. If I redirect the train, I am MAKING one man die. That is MURDER. If I let the train run its course, I am ALLOWING five men to die. That is CARELESSNESS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:21:15 2015 No.5952603 >>5952601 >it's the law that makes my decision, not morality

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:22:16 2015 No.5952607 >>5952603 Regardless of law I would rather be careless than a murderer.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:24:54 2015 No.5952610

>>5952607
murder is just a term based on the law. you're responsible for the deaths no matter what decision you make, only one decision could be seen as murder in a legal sense, but morally, you bear the responsibility for the deaths in either case. so you're saying legality > morality

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:30:03 2015 No.5952613

>>5952610

The difference is that in the case of the 'murder', I am Making someone to die. In the 'Carelessness' I am Allowing someone to die.

I give absolutely zero fucks about how many people are on what tracks. In the first, I am taking the initiative, making the active effort, to kill. In the second, I am allowing those that are already going to die, to die, and I make no absolutely no effort to kill anyone.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:32:08 2015 No.5952616

>>5952613
your effort or lack of effort will result in 1 death or 5 deaths. choosing to let 5 people die is worse than choosing to let 1 person die. it doesn't matter how much effort you think you're putting into doing what, the consequences of your choice are 1 death or 5.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:34:29 2015 No.5952618 >>5952616 I believe that whatever action I take is more important than how many people die.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:35:21 2015 No.5952619 >>5951609 Oh fuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:35:57 2015 No.5952621 >>5952619 you're the reason Uncle Ben dies m8

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:36:14 2015 No.5952622 What if an asteroid is about to hit the earth in 2 minutes killing everyone involved Does this change anything >pro tip, it doesn't

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:37:38 2015 No.5952623 >>5952622 what if the people who get saved from the track immediately go around and suck hundreds of nigger cocks? so what?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:41:40 2015 No.5952627 >>5951689 PRAHA R A H A

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:49:48 2015 No.5952636

The "Do you still beat your mother?" argument is lame, considering you're given two options and pretty much railroaded to choose without considering the other person in the situation with you.... The driver who has access to a break. Kind of reminds me of Communists and Socialists fighting over which system is better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 04:56:07 2015 No.5952640 >>5952636 The problem isn't really an ethical question. Its an example meant to illustrate the flaw in logic involving assumption of perfect information.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 05:27:38 2015 No.5952676 >pull lever >have sex with tied up people >leave them there

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 05:50:50 2015 No.5952704 File: 301 KB, 1000x1000, peterSingersBasement.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5951373 Don't pull it, unless you want to become a murderer. All you utilitarians can go fuck yourselves.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 05:53:43 2015 No.5952706

>>5952616
>choosing to let 5 people die is worse than choosing to let 1 person die.
Unless you are brain-damaged (utilitarian), five lives are no more valuable than one life.
>it doesn't matter how much effort you think you're putting into doing what, the consequences of your choice are 1 death or 5.
See the above.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:01:32 2015 No.5952721 flipping a coin. if you make any decision you automatically judge the people. You judge if they should live or not. Therefore you musn't make a decision so you flip a coin

>>	kitty !kitty/EnNg Mon Jan 5 06:05:13 2015 No.5952727 >>5952721 you made the decision to toss a coin

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:11:20 2015 No.5952732

>>5951373
People who let it run its course don't understand what negligence is and that your inaction still makes you responsible for the death of a larger group.

>>5952706
>five lives are no more valuable than one life

What if it was 5 million lives to one life?

>>5952721
Pussy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:17:29 2015 No.5952736 You kill one person to save five. Haven't you read fate/stay night?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:21:28 2015 No.5952740 >>5952732 >that your inaction still makes you responsible for the death of a larger group. lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:22:03 2015 No.5952741 >>5951373 Can you show me the mark scheme?

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:44:19 2015 No.5952773

>>5952732
>What if it was 5 million lives to one life?
Doesn't matter, human life is not quantifiable in the way you suggest.

>People who let it run its course don't understand what negligence is and that your inaction still makes you responsible for the death of a larger group.
Negligence is not murder.

The size of the group is irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:49:37 2015 No.5952784 >>5952773 >human life is not quantifiable in the way you suggest What if the entirety of the human race minus one person was on one track and then one person of your own sex on the other?

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:51:08 2015 No.5952786

>>5952784
Still wouldn't pull it.

Killing off humanity in such an elaborate way would save billions of future, innocent lives from being condemned to a short, mortal life. Perpetuating the species is for retards who never reflect over what consequences their actions have.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 06:54:23 2015 No.5952790 Michael Sandel gives a pretty good run down on the weights of numerous arguments on the trolley question in the beginning of his book Justice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 07:01:13 2015 No.5952801 What if the larger group were military? And the single a civilian?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 07:08:19 2015 No.5952814 >>5951469 i have a 5/6 chance of not being him

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 07:09:59 2015 No.5952815 >>5952732 >being this edgy

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 07:17:19 2015 No.5952832

>>5951373
MULTI
TRACK
DRIFTING

______
.-"""".._'. _,##
_..__ |.-"""-.| | _,##'`-._
(_____)||_____|| |_,##'`-._,##'`
_| |.;-""-. | |#'`-._,##'`
_.;_ `--' `\ \ |.'`\._,##'`
/.-.\ `\ |.-";.`_, |##'`
|\__/ | _..;__ |'-' /
'.____.'_.-`)\--' /'-'`
//||\\(_.-'_,'-'`
(`-...-')_,##'`
jgs _,##`-..,-;##`
_,##'`-._,##'`
_,##'`-._,##'`
`-._,##'`

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 09:17:10 2015 No.5953076 >>5952784 The tram would get jammed up with guts and bodies and would grind to a halt after mere dozens Retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 09:19:41 2015 No.5953089 >>5951373 your own suicide

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 09:24:39 2015 No.5953109 >>5951526 Trips.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 09:52:12 2015 No.5953194 File: 23 KB, 360x360, easy-button1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Pulling the lever both ways really fast, thus creating a lottery type deal where the trolley hits someone at no choice to you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 10:00:22 2015 No.5953219 >>5951526 trips die

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 10:01:49 2015 No.5953226 >>5953194 I don't think train tracks work that way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 10:11:49 2015 No.5953264 >>5951373 The real world

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 13:31:19 2015 No.5954151 >>5951526 I'm probably alone in this but I actually find the tripfags of /lit/ pretty amusing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 14:50:24 2015 No.5954488 >>5951444 Shitskin pls go

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 14:59:19 2015 No.5954522 >>5951373 do nothing reverse the train then pull the leaver if not all can survive then none will survive thats fair

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 15:02:57 2015 No.5954534 File: 94 KB, 600x450, 18497l.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5954488 There is nothing wrong with being colored we arn't /pol/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 15:03:50 2015 No.5954540 >>5951373 The actual solution is fuck you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 15:04:32 2015 No.5954542 >>5954488 we don't want racism here

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 15:07:26 2015 No.5954552 >>5954542 how new.ru

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 15:33:24 2015 No.5954626 Not to do anything. As it stands, you haven't caused any of this to happen, you're just a by stander. The second you pull that lever, you become a murderer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 16:53:16 2015 No.5954895 >>5951488 >>5951687 Your lives are as pointless as the other five. Moralfags.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 17:01:13 2015 No.5954926 >>5951609 be honest, how long have you been waiting for this perfect moment to post that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 17:05:37 2015 No.5954943 >>5951609 Oh my fuck.

Anonymous Mon Jan 5 17:10:13 2015 No.5954964

Once your knowledge of the conditions exists, only then does one have a moral choice and take into account said conditions.

The only answer is to close your eyes, put your forehead agains the stick, spin around it a few times, and flip the switch back and forth until the train passes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 5 17:14:00 2015 No.5954983 Id walk away and pretend im a blade of grass

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature