[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 14 KB, 480x480, Cross Within the Circle or, A Window.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5941516 No.5941516 [Reply] [Original]

Hellenists have their own threads, and I ask unto thee, why don't Gnostics?

Gnosticism General.

What have you done to escape the clutches of the demiurge today?

>> No.5941522

Took a nap.

>> No.5941625

>>5941522
Did you gain any enlightening wisdom in dreamland?

>> No.5941786
File: 22 KB, 720x480, 3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5941786

>Light, in the absence of eyes, illuminates nothing. Visible forms are not inherent in the world, but are granted by the act of seeing. Though the world and events do exist independent of mind, they obtain of no meaning in themselves: none that the mind is not guilty of imposing on them. I bid my people follow, and like all good equations, they follow; for full endowment of purpose, they do submit - in turn, they resign me to a role inhuman, impossible, and unaccountable. But I can no longer stand the sleepless nights... I think I am learning to love the Demiurge.

>> No.5941974
File: 7 KB, 473x454, 1420184895052.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5941974

What is Gnosticism in your own words?

>> No.5941980

>>5941516
Do what i do everyday, try to control my impulses and create something. Probably too young to seek wisdom.

>>5941786
source?

>> No.5941987

Atheist reporting in

>> No.5941995

>>5941980
>source?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0fArdfznUc

>> No.5942004

>>5941974
At its core?

To me it is an individualistic journey to unleash/actualize the divine spark within, to cease being human/limited and become divine/infinite, to escape the physical realm and return to Sophia.

>> No.5942015

>>5941974
Gnosticism is Christianity, except Jesus is a spirit force instead of an actual flesh-n-blood demigod

>> No.5942047

Any Valentinian Gnostics here?

>> No.5942173

>>5942047
Isn't Valentinianism like the most complicated thing ever?

>> No.5942197

>>5942173
Yes, it's also the basis of this show

>>5941786

>The title is based on the Gnostic notion of an Æon[4] – emanations of God – specifically the Valentinian notion of a syzygy,[5] a sexually complementary pair of emanations, here the two main characters. The Gnostic influence is also present in the use of a demiurge in one episode.[4]

>> No.5942212
File: 35 KB, 570x514, 1378009423516.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5942212

modern gnostics allow women as clergy
fucking heretics

>> No.5942213

>>5941516
I know we have some people who are very knowledgeable on it. To me it's always seemed the most interesting and plausible of religions/sects involving the Abrahamic God.

Recommended starter texts?

>> No.5942226

>>5941995
Sheeeeit, I forgot that this was a thing that I hadn't watched yet.

Thanks mane.

>> No.5942256

>>5942213
gnosis by kurt rudolph, robinson's nag hammadi library, and google
also, if you haven't read the bible already, include that too

>> No.5942262

>>5942212
5-5-5

>> No.5942295

Ugh, heretics pls

>> No.5942298

>>5942212
Herp derp Valentinians believe Mary Magdalene was Christ's counterpart and equal as an aeon.

>> No.5942305

>>5942212
that was pretty much always allowed, dumbass

>> No.5942328

>>5942256
I'm reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_English_Translation_of_the_Septuagint

That's good, right?

>> No.5942332

>>5942212
>implying
Many Christfags flipped their shit over female priests, but every religion at the time other than Judaism had female priests, and Gnostics obviously aren't beholden to Catholic doctrine.

>> No.5942349

>>5942213
http://www.shambhala.com/the-gnostic-bible-1.html

It's also on libgen (the version it has doesn't have the Gospel of Judas though)

>> No.5942351

>>5942332
He's a bit special.

>> No.5942831

>>5941995
I need to watch this someday.

Not now, but someday.

>> No.5942863

>>5941516
Dear "Dad"

I'm not calling you that in a non-sarcastic way ever. Just because you wear t shirts and boots and take hormones to grow facial hair does not make you a man. You're still my fucking mom you stupid cunt.

Fuck you,
Ian Neal

>> No.5943264

>>5942256
>>5942256
>read the bible

Not really... Reading that is like reading Mein Kampf for a Jew(best analogy I have) if you want to read with an certain approach to it

>> No.5943639

>>5943264
I thought the Gospel of John was a gnostic gospel. Or at least it could be interpreted as one.

>> No.5943661

alchemy master race

>> No.5943679

>>5942015
Christianity is Gnosticism you pleb

>> No.5943682

>>5942004
Who';s Sophia ?


Also, Tfw feel sorry for Mary Magdalene from her Gospel

>> No.5943728

>>5943682
I feel more sorry for poor Judas.

>> No.5943749

>>5943682
Sophia is the Aeon of Wisdom. Basically

>Sophia is the lowest Aeon in Pleroma
>Wanted to know what Abraxas knew
>Paid a heavy price for that by creating the material world
>First being to appear in it was the Demiurge
>Saw himself as the creator and shape the material world into whatever he desire
>Material world is flawed hence evil, pain and suffering exist
>Sophia wept for her mistake, and gave everyone a divine spark (Some version claims she scattered herself to give everyone divine sparks) so that they may escape the Demiurge's material world

>> No.5945017

>>5943639
How?

>> No.5945068

>>5943728

Gold star post.

>> No.5945669

>>5941516
How exactly can one discern God from the demiruge? I never understood this.

>> No.5945685

>>5943749
Also, what is the authoritative/original text on/of this version of creation? And how is it reconciled with biblical stuff?

>> No.5945698

Gnostics are heretical filth. Enjoy your madness, idiots.

>> No.5945710

>>5945669
That's easy. The Demiurge is the asshole who actually answers your stupid, vain prayers.

>> No.5945898

>>5945710
How does one ever know that their concepts of stupid/vain aren't just illusions molded by the demiurge?

>> No.5945936

>>5945898
Spooks, in other words.

>> No.5945971

>>5945936
Haven't read Stirner yet.

>> No.5946087

>>5945898

It's Jews all the way down.

>> No.5946487
File: 38 KB, 426x276, nag hammadi texts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5946487

I've read pretty much the entire Nag Hammadi Library from beginning to end, what do you want to know about it?

>> No.5946535

>>5946487
Everything?

>> No.5946676

>>5941516
>literally aggressive rejection of reason and meaningful discussion
why are you here?

>> No.5947002

>>5946535

you'll have to be more specific

>> No.5947114

>>5947002
Everything about Jesus, for starters.

>> No.5947172

>>5947114

Well, the Nag Hammadi Library isn't really uniform in its portrayal of Jesus or his teachings. It's made up of different codices or books which contain different compilations of text, each reflecting the concerns of a different compiler.

But common themes about Jesus seem to be:

1.) He didn't die and/or didn't have a physical body
2.) He was sent by God to provide the keys for people to break free of the material world, which is often characterized as the creation of a lesser god associated with either the devil or the god of the old testament or both
3.) He gave secret knowledge to chosen members of his disciples to give only to those worthy of it (these texts also reflect competitive claims of religious authority based on the authority of different apostles)
4.) Jesus is some kind of emanation from the Eternal God.

>> No.5947423
File: 584 KB, 1400x2700, Gnostism - Sad Demiurge Cosmology.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5947423

>pic related

>> No.5947437

>>5941516
Even though I am an atheist, gnosticism is actually pretty cool. I works better than Christianity

>> No.5947441

>>5941516
What a bunch of will-denying, earth despising tripe.

>> No.5947630

>>5947441

One of my main issues with Christian gnosticism is that most of it is very anti-sex.

>> No.5947748

>>5943679
Not so much, it really is not compatible with orthodoxy.

>> No.5947781

>>5947748

Orthodoxy has its own gnostic tradition.

The term gnosticism developed later as an umbrella term for those heretical sects of the early centuries, but none of those groups considered themselves part of a unified religion called "gnosticism" and neither did the Orthodox necessarily deny the existence of gnosis or secret knowledge, but were more opposed to what they felt was heresy peddled as secret knowledge.

>> No.5947942

>>5945685
There is no such thing as canon in Gnosticism. It was a very diverse and fluid movement that the church exterminated by enforcing muh canon and Hersey. Also the dermuige is YWHW in OT, Sophia or her servant is the snake. NT is more murky

>> No.5947953

>>5945685
>>5945685
There is no such thing as canon in Gnosticism. It was a very diverse and fluid movement that the church exterminated by enforcing muh canon and Hersey. Also the dermuige is YWHW in OT, Sophia or her servant is the snake. NT is more murky

>> No.5947958

>>5947630

>>5947441
Just like Schopenhauer and Buddhism,calm down


>One of my main issues with Christian gnosticism is that most of it is very anti-sex.

Explain

>> No.5947979

Gnosticism is so Greek like, lmao

>>5947953
>Sophia or her servant is the snake

Snake as in satan the snake ? Wut

>> No.5947985

>>5947958

>Explain

Most of the Gnostic groups adopted a very anti-sex view concurrent with much of Christianity. Due to their view of the world as being created by an ignorant or capricious demiurge, they saw sex as worldly and saw procreation and family as a means of maintaining the demiurge's order in the world and furthering his agenda of entrapping the divine sparks from the heavenly Pleroma. While Orthodoxy and Catholicism merely favored celibacy but permitted marriage, many of the gnostic groups were so rigidly ascetic and individually focused that they believe marriage was itself adultery and the compulsion for sex as the result of archons in the loins attempting to enslave people.

On the flipside, other groups of gnostics believed that the saving grace of Christ allowed them to do whatever they pleased sexually speaking since the Law was no longer binding under the Gospel.

>> No.5948760

Did Philip K. Dick actually "get" gnosticism or is VALIS and Exegesis just meth fueled ramblings?

>> No.5948923

>>5947979
Gnostics don't think Satan is evil and think knowledge is the best thing ever. Obviously, they love the snake.

>> No.5948987

>>5947985
Not just sexually speaking. Anything that paints itself as a law in the Old Testament is wrong and should not be followed, since it was dictated by an evil, megalomaniac (probably retarded) narcissistic freak.

>> No.5948994

>All this heresy in one thread

>> No.5949004

>>5947985

There is a lot of confusion generated by the definition of Gnosticism as an ideology predicated on the evil and mischief of matter and the material world, and the use of the word Gnosticism to describe the many alternative interpretations of scriptures that evolved as various heresies in the medieval era (i.e. Cathars, Brethren of the Free Spirit {haha, you think hippies were just a 60s thing?}, etc.)

>> No.5949025

>>5947985
How do gnostics deal with Matthew 5:17?

Or with the others books of the gospel considering their own weird interpretation of Christ?

>> No.5949029

>>5949004
Do you know of any good books on these early church heresies and moves by the church to either recuperate them or destroy them?

Fredy Perlman's Against His-Story, Against Leviathan opened my eyes to this shit.

>> No.5949068

>>5949029

The New Science of Politics, Order and History, and Science, Politics and Gnosticism by Eric Voegelin (although he wrote these before wide availability of Nag Hammadi Library)

The Gnostic Religion by Hans Jonas

The Early Church by Henry Chadwick

and for a different spin, there's one chapter of Demanding the Impossible (history of anarchism) on them. . .

>> No.5949084

>>5949025
Gnostics don't accept the Bible as canonical, for the most part. They abide by other Gospels.

>> No.5949401

>>5948923
How do they come to the conclusion that 'knowledge' isn't just a weapon of the demiurge?
If original sin wasn't a problem, then what was the point of Jesus' crucifixion?

>> No.5949415

>>5949401
>How do they come to the conclusion that 'knowledge' isn't just a weapon of the demiurge?
Jesus is an immediate emanation from the true God or something, I think, and it's knowledge of that God, so it can't be of the Demiurge.
If original sin wasn't a problem, then what was the point of Jesus' crucifixion?
Original sin isn't a thing really, for them all matter is evil and Jesus' message is that we should free ourselves from matter. Gnosis is freedom from the world of the Demiurge, not just the possibility of forgiveness.

>> No.5949482

>>5949415
yea. OT was written with the perspective that the Dermuige is the creator and his deeds with humanity, hence the snake was to be labeled as satan or evil (Thought the version i read didnt imply that the snake was satan). Keep the fruit was from the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

>>5949415
Jesus was according to gnostics either 1) An being of light, Christos, the partner/couple of Sophia 2)A mere man who obtained gnosis at the end of his life

>>5948994
It isn't a gnostic till some christfag cry heresy

>> No.5949513

>>5949482
>Gnostics using the term Christfag
Aren't you Christfags just as much as the rest of all Christians are?
Implying that Jesus isn't immediately God is objectively heretical, so it makes sense to call you peoe heretics.

>> No.5949774

>>5949004

There's one book called Rethinking Gnosticism that tackles the issues with applying the unifying label of "gnosticism" to any of these groups.

But all I was saying was that the groups we normally categorize as "gnostic" in this case had an extremely anti-sex worldview that seems to strike one as only appealing to individuals who just feel really alienated from society.

>>5949025

There were a wide range of scriptures the early gnostics used. Something like Matthew, however, would have struck the gnostics as false because it would have probably been seen as too Jewish.

In addition to a bunch of apocryphal gospels like those of Phillip and Thomas, it seems the only "canonical" gospels these gnostics liked were Mark. John and Luke. The idea, however, here was that these sects saw themselves as proliferating the "secret knowledge" of Christ and so any use of canonical gospels among them would have been a form of dissimulation or they would have approached these texts in a very allegorical manner in which they could insert their own beliefs and interpretations into them.

>> No.5951119

>>5948994
Well, it's not a gnostic thread until a Christian calls it heretical.

>> No.5952228

>>5949513
Nothing can be more different. Aside from Jesus, gnostics are literally the opposite of christian. Their God is the gnostic's Dermuige. Their obession with canon and 'church fathers' versus the gnostics' individualistic approach to enlightenment. I guess gnostics are like christians in the same sense satanists are like christians

>> No.5952258

>>5952228

Um, no. If by "Christian" we mean literally "followers of Christ" then the Gnostics considered to be exactly that. They considered their Orthodox opponents to be either misguided, having inferior understanding or fake Christians/heretics.

Many of the Gnostics' beef was with Judaism and certain forms of paganism, thus they saw the Orthodox or proto-Orthodox church fathers as Judaizers or even servants of the devil who had been tricked into believing Christ was the Messiah sent by the God of the Jews (and yes, some of these gnostics were themselves former Jews)

>> No.5952317

>>5952258
>If by "Christian" we mean literally "followers of Christ" then the Gnostics considered to be exactly that.

Oh okay, if that is your definition then sure

>> No.5952340

>i ask unto thee

go fuck yourself.