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/lit/ - Literature

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5908747 No.5908747 [Reply] [Original]

What are the worst lies told about Marxism and communism? In particular, Marxist theory.

>> No.5908749

That we're all Jews.

>> No.5908756

Stalin and Mao killed 90 bajillion people.

>> No.5908759

Nothing. Marxists tell their own lies and destroy western civilization in the process.

>> No.5908772

The theory is sound, it's the practice that's off.

Very smart people can still know nothing about how revolutions, counterrevolutions, insurrections or power transfers work.

>> No.5908774

any strawman of the LTV.

>> No.5908781

>china isn't communist.
>claptrap about redistribution of money

>> No.5908786

>>5908759
Marxists are western civilization.

>> No.5908791

>>5908786
No. You are fucking retarded. L2Engels.

>> No.5908801

That the Soviet Union wasn't a honest attempt at communism and faithful to Marxist theory as far as reality allowed.

>> No.5908804

>>5908781
Please explain how modern day China is Communist.

>> No.5908808

>>5908791
>Engels' writing is a self-containing system completely without grounding in any discipline that developed in the West.

>> No.5908811

>>5908749
>implying
http://murderbymedia2.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/the-downfall-of-all-white-countries-can-easily-be-traced-back-to-jewish-interference/

>> No.5908813

>>5908808
>"disciplines that developed in the West."

>i.e. Feminism
>i.e. Sociology
>i.e. Critical Race Theory

How are any of these academic cancers defining characteristics of the West?

>> No.5908816

>china isn't communist
>That the Soviet Union wasn't a honest attempt at communism

ugh, neither the soviet union nor china ever claimed to be communist, it's the union of soviet socialist republics and people's republic of china, communist were their political parties, not countries, countries were socialist (and they actually were)

>> No.5908819

>>5908816
What of National-Socialist Germany? Wasn't Germany socialist? Just not Marxian socialist?

>> No.5908822

>>5908747
Not really a lie, but Lenin tried to implement Marx' theory by modifying it. Marx had a longterm analysis of the development of society, that leads into a sophisticated society. He couldn't imagine that this modern society can be implemented by force.
Lenin took Marx and modified it, he was the one who invented the "Dictatorship of the people" that finally created the murderous Bolshevik dictature. Stalin later pushed it to the extreme by competing with germany and forcing a brutal industrial development in the agricultural Russia. If you look at the numbers, more people died in Russia than in Germany.

>> No.5908824

>>5908804
it's an example of practicing the capitalist mode of production towards the end of transitioning into a communist one through the development of capitalist technologies of abundance. You've underestimated the power of Asians. From the view of ascetic impartial observers they are able to rework the mathematical basis of capitalism itself, make the US owe them a non-euclidan sum, break the entire economic fabric and posit their own latent order resembling the truest idea of Marx in keeping with the rule that vestigial elements are present within Communism as precapitalist characteristics were present w/in the Capitalist Bourgeois era and that elements of Capitalism were apparent and grew to prominance via isolation as precapitalist society.

>> No.5908827

>The theory is sound
Tell me how the centralization and usurpation of assets advocated by Marxism is sound when, as we've seen, this phase is far from quick and painless, the state can't seem to survive for long without making liberal concessions, the utopian transition is extremely ambiguous, and everything leads to Marxist states getting stuck in an totalitarian limbo like China. And if you want to complain about incompetent leadership or evil capitalist hegemony, then that is something the theory and political system failed to account for much like capitalism fails to account for corporate influence/control of government.

Statists pls go

>> No.5908830

>>5908747
The worst lie told about Marxism and communism is that they can work.

>> No.5908831

>>5908827
>statists pls go
>statelessness is possible
Venezuela

>> No.5908833

>>5908830
>>5908827
You are talking about Leninism/Marxism.
There is no practical implementation of Marxist Theory because it's not meant to be a set of instructions. It's a analysis of the development of society that is still in progress and will be for a very long time.

>> No.5908835

>>5908813
Where does the word academy come from?

>> No.5908837

>>5908747

that it's a political system. it's not. it's a method of analysis.

some people tried to turn it into a political system (it didn't work)

>> No.5908840

>>5908819

they probably were, at least according to their definition

>Spengler wrote: "The meaning of socialism is that life is controlled not by the opposition between rich and poor, but by the rank that achievement and talent bestow. That is our freedom, freedom from the economic despotism of the individual."
>Spengler's definition of socialism did not advocate a change to property relations.[74] He denounced Marxism for seeking to train the proletariat to "expropriate the expropriator", the capitalist, and then to let them live a life of leisure on this expropriation.[79] He claimed that "Marxism is the capitalism of the working class" and not true socialism.[79] True socialism, according to Spengler, would be in the form of corporatism, stating that "local corporate bodies organised according to the importance of each occupation to the people as a whole; higher representation in stages up to a supreme council of the state; mandates revocable at any time; no organised parties, no professional politicians, no periodic elections."[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

>> No.5908841
File: 92 KB, 724x403, communistmanifesto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5908841

>>5908833
No shit it's about Marxism when the word is mentioned over and over again.

>> No.5908845

>>5908827
What you and many other anarchists fail to understand is, Marxists take the current conditions into account. We learn from our mistakes and ensure not to repeat them. Your idea that every state must give "liberal concessions" in order to survive is a half-truth. The truth is, we don't know what kinds of conditions we will face in the future, so we can't make predictions about what kind of form a future socialist state would take. Lenin wanted a commune state in the beginning, but it just wasn't possible given the conditions that existed in Russia during the time. The same was true of Anarchist Catalonia: the Spanish Anarchists dun goofed big time partially due to their refusal to take conditions into account.
>>5908833
This.

>> No.5908851

>>5908822
these comparisons are quite questionable. imo unless you use extremely overblown numbers from the cold era propaganda sources soviet regime definitely killed way less people than died in nazi death camps, leaving aside the other victims of ww2 begun by germany

>> No.5908855

>>5908841
It's the same as with religion. Some prophets wrote intelligent predictions, but in the end religion was used as a instrument of control and oppression. But nobody would have dared to call Christian religion "Caesar's Religion" because that would have killed its justification. That doesn't mean that the original author's intentions and moral code were reflected in the actions of those oppressive rulers.

>> No.5908864

>>5908833
If those phenomenon can be found to have perceptible causes and effects as is keeping with Marxist theory, then attempts can be made to preempt this development or replicate the effects (which should be prioritized is a central point of contention). Lenin was able to balance this like a skilled mo-fucka thanks to state capitalism and accurately predicting which social behaviours the bourgeois state would attempt to discourage while making possible through the elimination of their basis in scarcity.

>> No.5908869

>>5908845
All in all I think what anarchists see in marxism and other state-positive socialisms is that they seem to make things harder for themselves (central planning, etc.) for no real reason, and if the proles have come as far as to be able to organize themselves and topple the capitalist state/order, a big protective government would be unnecessary for the proletarian cause

>> No.5908870

>>5908759
>destroy western civilization in the process
if only ;_;

>> No.5908876

>>5908869
The Spanish Anarchists attempted decentralized planning and failed, because they didn't take the existing conditions into account and were basically a blind-leading-the-blind scenario.

Again, the issue here isn't necessarily one of centralized/decentralized. The issue is what can work given the context. So far, we have seen almost no successes of widespread decentralized planning.

>> No.5908878

>>5908876
>So far, we have seen almost no successes of widespread decentralized planning.
What about feudal -> capitalist?

>> No.5908883

>>5908878
I'm speaking more about socialism. We have seen the USSR and China and other socialist states have successes. When we look at anarchist cases (Catalonia, Ukraine) we see a clusterfuck. Why? Because they bit off more than they could chew.

>> No.5908886

That Marxism isn't unfalsifiable dogma
That Marxism is scientific
That Marxism isn't a religion

>> No.5908888

>>5908886
>implying there aren't religious Marxists who mix religion with Marxism

>> No.5908892

THE JEWS ARE MARXISM! THEY ARE CULTURAL MARXISM DESTRYING WESTERN CIVILIZATION

MARXISM IS UNVERIFIABLE NONSENSE; IT'S DOGMA, AND ONLY STUPID LIBERALS BELIEVE IN IT.

OUR PROUD WHITE VALUES ARE BEING DENIGRATED BY JEWISH INFLUENCE WITH ITS FEMINISM, SOCIALISM, AND CULTURAL MARXISM THAT HAS BECOME THE BACKBONE OF EVERY COUNTRY. REALLY, THE WORLD IS MARXIST NOW.

>> No.5908894

>>5908892
>THE WORLD IS MARXIST NOW
but that's true.

>> No.5908900

>>5908888
Marxism is basically a religion.

>> No.5908901

>>5908894
YES THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS A 'LIES ABOUT MARXISM' THREAD.

IT MEANT EVERY WORD. AND IT'S TRUE.

>> No.5908906

>>5908900
In what ways?

>> No.5908907

>>5908901
This sentence is a lie.

>> No.5908909

>>5908906
It's dogmatic and unfalsifiable.

>> No.5908910

>>5908900
So in marxist liberation theology, how does that work?

>> No.5908913

>>5908907
UNFALSIFIABLE NONSENSE. WITTGENSTEIN AND POPPER ARE YOUR ONLY FRIENDS IN LIFE.

GET A GRIP, MARXIST DOGMATIC CUNT

YOU ARE A FALSIFIABLE CUNT, YOU AUTIST

>> No.5908915
File: 254 KB, 553x523, fsjudbpsdimj.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5908915

>>5908900
>>5908906
>daily reminder
And yes, Cultural Marxism is real.

>> No.5908919

>>5908915
HAHA SHOW THESE MARXIST AUTISTS SOME MORE /POL/ PICS, AND THEY WILL WEEP

THEYLL RETREAT IN HORROR WHEN THEY REALIZE FEMINISM, SOCIALISM, AND CULTURAL MARXISM (WHICH IS REAL AS YOU SAY) IS A JEWISH INVENTION TO SUBVERT WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND DECENCY.

>> No.5908920

>>5908913
Funny, because Wittgenstein became more like Derrida later on.

>> No.5908922

>>5908919
See:
>>5908811
Read every single one of those links.

>> No.5908925

>>5908913
Are lies necessarily the opposite of the truth?

How can a question be a lie?

>> No.5908926

>>5908920
WITTGENSTEIN, IN PHILOSOPHICAL INVESTIGATIONS SHOWED WHY 'THIS SENTENCE IS A LIE' IS A STUPID MORONIC MARXIST-LIKE SENTENCE.

LEARN TO READ, IDIOT

>>5908922
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TEACH ME, I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY

>> No.5908928

>>5908926
likewise how can a command be a lie?

>> No.5908934

>>5908926
How can a sentence deliberately used to point out a paradox of meaning is Marxist?

I am not genuinely interested.

>> No.5908935

>>5908892
>>5908913
>>5908919
>>5908926
lmao
are you evolakid or one of those shitposters who type ALLCAPSLOCKS, repeating words again and again (like unfalsifiable, which is now parroted by all /lit/ shitposters)?

>> No.5908939

>unfalsifiable
Theory of evolution is unfalsifiable according to Lakatos. Not only that, but it is unable to make testable predictions since all evolution is random.

>> No.5908940

Hang a black pig in the synagogue,
Zyklon must flow, a whole lot of it,
And we gas the kikes in the institute fur sozial forshung

>> No.5908941

>>5908940
This!

Maybe we will have proud white society back

>> No.5908942

>>5908939
>implying random exists
Do you even Hume bro?

>> No.5908946

>>5908939
>evolution
>random

laughingACTUALscientists.jpg

Maybe stop reading Marx and pick up a book on evolution, you pleb-tier unfalsifiable nonsense-adhering cunt-dick?

>> No.5908948

>>5908946
Mutations are random.

>> No.5908950

wow what a quality thread. And then they say marxists ruin /lit/.

>> No.5908953

>>5908948
Cause and effect. Nothing is random.

>> No.5908954

>>5908950
You know /pol/-mongrels are here when the topic slides to a 'discussion' about a Jewminati destroying Western civilization, 'Cultural Marxism', links like these >>5908811
and jpgs like these >>5908915

>> No.5908958

>>5908954
FYI, Benjamin would be quite offended that you would call the theological elements of his work a "right-wing conspiracy".

>> No.5908959

>>5908953
What if I told you that cause and effect is an illusion that our minds use to make sense of a world that it cannot understand?

Or, are you implying that something is guiding or designing evolution?

>> No.5908960

>>5908954
I give a damn about all of that, but I've been in 3 threads and in all those threads these retards showed up, shitting everything.
Now the mod can't do anything otherwise it will be "IT'S 1984 OMG BIG BROTHER FUCKING LEFTISTS LIBERAL JEWISH MARXISTS". He can't even do it for free.

>> No.5908961

>>5908958
>muh feels

Marxists, everyone

>> No.5908963

>>5908961
do you even read what you reply to?

>> No.5908965

>>5908959
>that cause and effect is an illusion that our minds use to make sense of a world that it cannot understand?
UNFALSIFIABLE NONSENSE

>> No.5908966

>>5908959
>What if I told you that cause and effect is an illusion that our minds use to make sense of a world that it cannot understand?

Explain.

If we could brain scan every living organism in the world we could determine why things evolve the way they do. Evolution is not "random" as there are plenty of determing factors. All life is is a string of chemical reactions.

>> No.5908967

>>5908958
>jews
>offended
Seems about right.

>> No.5908972

>>5908965
It's PoMo bullshit. Everything that happens is within the realm of science to understand.

>> No.5908975

>>5908954
That jpg is literally from a book on the history of the Frankfurt School, written by a Jewish communist sympathetic to their work dumbfuck.

>> No.5908977

>>5908972
And what do we know about postmodernism?

The Jews did it.

/pol/ was right again

>> No.5908978

>>5908959
That's unfalsifiable.

>> No.5908980

>>5908975
>Benjamin was interested in Kabala and used it in his writings
>Jews want to subvert Western Civilization

>> No.5908984
File: 128 KB, 531x734, serpentcabalah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5908984

>>5908980
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7UEkZ5lao
>good goy!

>> No.5908988

>>5908984
>good goy meme
>/pol/ jpg
>link to a youtube video

lel, you're just parodying them to make them look bad, right?

You forgot a link to one of those alternative wikipedias for conspiracy theories

>> No.5908994

I wish marxism would stop being considered anything but the joke it is.

>> No.5908997

>>5908994
This. It's Jewish propoganda to subvert Western Civilization.

No one will realize this before we are all in cages, being shipped off to be genocidally murdered so the Jews -- who have stayed race-pure -- can live alone on the planet

>> No.5909004

>>5908954
You are so unbelievably dumb and because you're a jew you can't put aside your own biases too

>> No.5909009

>>5908966
>If we could brain scan every living organism in the world we could determine why things evolve the way they do.
What do you mean by 'brain scan'?

>Evolution is not "random" as there are plenty of determing factors.
Can we verify this? (Ugh, I don't want to sound like that prick, but this is basically the crux of the argument here)

>All life is is a string of chemical reactions.
Think of it this way: Our brain is small compared to the universe (the world). In fact, our brain is contained in the universe. We cannot possibly simulate the universe with our brain, let alone the brain of others. So it may very well be just 'chemical reactions' but we will never be able to fully understand them. That would mean simulating billions of years of chemical reactions in a single human life time in a way that a single human being can understand. I would say that is very unlikely to happen.

The part about simulating the brain of others is important in economics which is very susceptible to the 'double hermeneutic' effect, that is, economic theory alters the way that people behave in an economy. Neoclassical economic theory and Marxian economic theory both have this effect. IIRC the policy of ECB is pretty much lifted from neoclassical theory and a very direct effect of Marx's theories can be seen from the many countries that have adopted ideas from >>5908841. What I am basically trying to say is that, science dealing with humans is hard.

>> No.5909010
File: 967 KB, 4621x2914, fsflochart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909010

>>5908997
The Jewish connection in Marxism is something highly overlooked. Not just the racially Jewish connection, but the religiously Jewish connection.

The Marxist dialectic literally comes from Judaism. Many prominent Marxist theorists were Sabbatean-Frankists.

>> No.5909011

>>5908997
Jews are heavily mixed

>> No.5909012

Why are the jews on /lit/ always so thin skinned?

>> No.5909014

>>5909004
hehe, these Jews will never learn.

THey have brainwashed everyone on /lit/, except us who see through it

>> No.5909015

>>5908997
>implying western civ doesn't deserve to be subverted before it literally kills everyone

>>>/out/

>> No.5909017

>>5909011
kek, ashkenazi jews are one of the most insular and racist ethnic groups on the planet

>> No.5909018

>>5908966
> If we could brain scan every living organism in the world we could determine why things evolve the way they do.
.. Because of random mutations caused by unpredictable biochemical changes.
> Evolution is not "random" as there are plenty of determing factors.
Not really, no, since its all about random mutating DNA sequence with unpredictable end results.

>> No.5909019

>>5909009
Chemicals in the brain determine everything. Everything in life is just a series of chemical reactions. No god. No need for dialectics. Everything has a clear cut cause ---> effect

Just because something isn't verifiable now doesn't mean it's outside the realm of science to understand.

>> No.5909020

>>5909010
Hegel was a Jew too

>> No.5909021

>>5909019

>Chemicals in the brain determine everything

That's a bold claim. Can you prove it?

>> No.5909022
File: 7 KB, 180x270, ed milijew.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909022

>>5909014

>> No.5909023

>>5909019
>Just because something isn't verifiable now doesn't mean it's outside the realm of science to understand.
Does this also hold for Marx's theories then?

>> No.5909024

>>5909019
are all irrational acts by man the result of chemical imbalances in the brain?

>> No.5909025

>>5909019
determinist pls

>> No.5909026

>>5909010
>Sabbatean-Frankist
Barry Chamish pls go. You ruin these boards.

>> No.5909027

THIS THREAD BETTER WATCH OUT I GOT A LOT OF ENERGY DRINKS AND SNACKS AND I AM READY TO FUNPOST FOR THE DAY

>> No.5909029

>>5909026
YOU RUIN SOCIETY AND WHITE PRIDE BY GIVING POWER AND VOICE TO MINORITIES AND COLOREDS!

GUILT-LOVING JEW

>> No.5909030

>>5909021
Most scientists agree with me.

>>5909023
Marxism is dead. Pinker and others like him are proving "historical materialism" false.

>>5909024
Yes. Everything is reducible to chemicals in the brain. If we could brain scan every living creature we could determine why things evolve. No need for gods or bullshit dialectics.

>> No.5909032

>>5909029
you ruin white-pride by turning it into a racist spookfest

>> No.5909033

>>5909019
> Neurobiological determinism
1998 called and wanted its science back

>> No.5909034

>>5909026
>>5909029
It's true though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBfT0pi0cMs

Marcuse was also CIA.

>> No.5909035
File: 19 KB, 480x359, laughing snowden.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909035

what's with all this huge retardation coming from these "civilized white men"?

>> No.5909036

>>5909030
>Most scientists agree with me.

name one

>> No.5909038

>>5909033
How am I wrong? Explain.

>> No.5909040

>>5909032
Ignore the buttblasted yid, he's here all day incessantly spamming threads for the good of greater israel

>> No.5909042

>>5909035
if i had a penny for every arrogant 15-22 yo white male who thought they figured everything out

>> No.5909044

>>5909035
I JUST GET TO FUCKING ANGRY WITH ALL THESE FUCKING DOGMATIC MARXIST SHILLS WHOSE ARGUMENTS ENTIRELY DEPEND ON APPEALS TO MUH FEELS

>> No.5909045

This gibberish about Marxism" being Jew" needs to die. You people are literally discussing words; not ideas nor truths nor facts.

It is fucking stupid, and I fucking hate you all stupid paranoid people; why the hell can't you move the fuck on?

>> No.5909047

>>5909038
>prove me wrong so i may learn from you and then post your opinions from now on

this attitude is why 4chan is a hunk of shit

>> No.5909048

>>5909030
>Marxism is dead.
So there's no class struggle? Looking at numbers from Piketty and the number of people protesting around the world I would say there's still a struggle going on.

>> No.5909049

>>5909045
You have no idea.

Read the comment left here:
>http://murderbymedia2.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/the-downfall-of-all-white-countries-can-easily-be-traced-back-to-jewish-interference/comment-page-1/#comment-248

>> No.5909050

>>5909030
> Most scientists agree with me.
No we don't. Neurology gave up on the idea of explaining everything through biochemistry over a decade ago. Nowadays we have quite fruitful dialogue with social scientists and humanists on drafting a holistic human perception over a reductionist one. Human brain isn't a chemical formula.
> If we could brain scan every living creature we could determine why things evolve.
Do you even understand what causes evolution? Its not brain chemical. Its degeneration of DNA.

>> No.5909051

>>5909044
there aren't many arguments by any group that don't start at muh feels

>> No.5909053

>>5909038
http://teleodynamics.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2013/10/HolismAssoc_Deacon.pdf

>> No.5909054

>>5909050
But you can still reduce it down to genes. My point is that there's no need for a "holistic" approach when science itself has the ability to analyze these things.

>> No.5909055
File: 1.99 MB, 400x310, 1404173084437.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909055

>>5909049
>the-downfall-of-all-white-countries

>> No.5909056

>>5909049
The downfall of western nations is not due to the jews, it is due to giving women the vote.

>> No.5909057

>>5909049
>Lukács belonged to a 17th century Ottoman Jewish sex cult.
I don't even.

>> No.5909058

>>5909045
I'm amused. Yes, absolutely something always has to fall down for something else to rise up... it's exactly that slave mentality that Marx despised, and the exact reason that he didn't believe his own theory to become reality in a very long time.

>> No.5909059

>>5909049
Jews had more money = leisure and study for jews.
Move the fuck on. You're fucking retarded. It's so funny how you people even look out for evidence and all to prove the big-never-heard conspiration.

>> No.5909061

>>5909056
so you can stop using any invention that came into existence after universal suffrage

>> No.5909063

>>5909048
>Piketty

really? what numbers that haven't yet been debunked support Marx's theories?

>> No.5909065

>>5909049
I really can't tell if you are trolling or not.
>School and its ideology. I do not know much about Georg Lukács, but judging from his introduction of sex education to minors in Hungary during his time as Culture Minister I am certain he was probably a Sabbatean-Frankist
Whoa, he really was sabatean-frankist, I don't even know the man but I can assure you he was!
>Freud was a known Sabbatean
Kek
>Marx was said to have been influenced by a Kabbalist rabbi during his youth, despite the fact that he grew up Christian
>Marx was said to have been influenced by a Kabbalist rabbi during his youth
He had jewish blood. God, even his grandmother was jewish. But it's a conspiracy, amirite?
>His On The Concept of History is, quite subtly, a merger of Kabbalist doctrine and Marxist “Historical Materialism” and anyone who has studied the topic can see how clearly of a connection he was making between the Kabbalist interpretation of the fall of Man and the creation of class society, and another between the bringing forth of communism on earth with the restoration of G_d and the bringing forth of the Messianic Era

Obviously this man never read that book and is just funposting.

>> No.5909066

>>5909049
>Marx was said to have been influenced by a Kabbalist rabbi during his youth, despite the fact that he grew up Christian.
Ughhhhh wut?

>> No.5909068

>>5909054
> But you can still reduce it down to genes.
Reduce what? Evolution? No. Since evolution is based on random mutation of genes, its unpredictable. Generally said, evolution is also a side effect of something else, not a direct goal of biochemical process. Evolution doesn't know "Why" to it.

Reducing behavior down to genes is far too simplistic due to modern psychology and neurology agreeing on the relationship of nature/nurture being much more nyanced than something required for proper falsifiable science.

> there's no need for a "holistic" approach when science itself has the ability to analyze these things.
What blind faith you have in us! Science cannot alone provide a very interesting concept of human because we establish only the theoretical framework between chemical processes. The rest is narrative which isn't our domain. We answer the question of "How?", "When" and "What?". Social sciences and humanities answer "Why?.

>> No.5909072

'Cultural Marxism' is Neoliberalism and is entirely a capitalist endeavour

>> No.5909078

>>5909048
This is only starting now. There has never been a solid communication to allow for ideas to spread in a unmodified and uncontrolled fashion.

>> No.5909080

>>5909068
Evolutionary psychology can answer the why. In fact it's already doing so. The truth is, everything is reducible to chemistry, and even more so to physics.

>> No.5909081

>>5909080
*tips waiter*

>> No.5909083
File: 32 KB, 231x346, sabbatai-zevi-the-mystical-messiah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909083

>>5909065
Barry Chamish and Henry Makow write about the Sabbateans. I suggest doing a google search on Shabtai Zvi. He was bad news and his followers are behind much of the turmoil in today's world.
>reminder that author of pic related was buddies with frankfurt school cultural marxists

>> No.5909090

>>5909081
How is my assertion wrong? EvoPsych has been successful in proving why certain human behaviors exist.

>> No.5909091

>>5909080
> Evolutionary psychology can answer the why.
Evolutionary psychology is bad science and psychology. It makes outdated assumptions and is not falsifiable.

> The truth is
Call the ghostbusters, for I have seen a spook!

> everything is reducible to chemistry, and even more so to physics.
As soon as theoretical physics can explain Theory of Justice without simplifying it, I trust in you.

>> No.5909093

>>5909090
>EvoPsych
>proving

what? where?

>> No.5909094

>>5909091
EvoPsych can explain why we all hold an innate concept of justice.

Hell just read Kropotkin's Mutual Aid. A whiny anarchist could figure out this shit years before.

>> No.5909097

>>5909094
>EvoPsych can explain why we all hold an innate concept of justice

unfalsifiable nonsense

>> No.5909098

>>5909097
Well how does Chomsky prove it then?

>> No.5909099

>>5909083
I've listened to the Chamish podcasts and most of them are just taken out of articles written by some unknown man which works aren't reviewed.
Furthermore, yes, Scholem was friend of Chamish, but that doesn't mean Benjamin was also in his cult. Gershom wasn't even in a cult.
>trusting random articles written by anonymous authors
Didn't someone tell you not to believe whatever you read on the internet?

>> No.5909102

>>5909094
> EvoPsych can explain why we all hold an innate concept of justice.
Yeah, it could do it in a crude, nonscientific and ideological manner. Even premodern sociology does a better job at it.
> Hell just read Kropotkin's Mutual Aid.
I have. Appeals a bit too much to naturalistic fallacy. Doesn't really work as scientific treatise, but of course, interesting application of common biological phenomena of mutualism in sociology. To consider "human nature" is improper.

>> No.5909103

>>5909099
I would like to add that in the book you posted Scholem does a research on Shabtai Zvi, about his philosophy and his religious influences, plus all the obscure shit he believed. It's not a book that states "Zvi was right! HE'S THE MESSIAH".

>> No.5909105

>>5909103
Nonetheless, it is revealing, and I'm almost certain there is something behind it.

>> No.5909111

>>5909061
Why? Men invented it.

We gave women the vote, people warned that it would lead to massive social issues, they were right.

>> No.5909114

>>5909111
Women have shown that they don't deserve their new "rights".

>> No.5909115

>>5909111
>men fucking up again

the sad thing is they'll never learn. keep committing the bulk of crimes, men

>> No.5909117

>>5909105
Have you read it? I did last year because I got interested in all of that because I met a tur who believed in that shit. It's not about if Zvi was a messiah (he mentions that he was a messiah, but not the way you probably think) or something like that, it's a research with some poems added, and a personal view.

>> No.5909119

>>5909111
>Men invented it.

doesn't matter. by partaking at all in a system that has given women the vote, you are contributing to the downfall of this civilization, no matter how you try to rationalize it. get out while you can, shill

>> No.5909120

>>5909111
> people warned that it would lead to massive social issues
Can you provide a peer-reviewed sociology paper that proves this statement in a scientific manner?

>> No.5909123

>>5909115
women are the ones who go out, act like sluts, get pregnant and raise future criminals.

>> No.5909124

>>5909120
>Can you provide a peer-reviewed sociology paper that proves this statement in a scientific manner?

I am not getting laid. There's your empirical evidence

>> No.5909126

>>5909123
>future criminals

you mean men?

>> No.5909127

>>5909111
>men invent system of voting
>give women the vote
>men literally too stupid to keep voting in their own vote system
>society collapses
>"it was the women!"

>> No.5909129

>>5909126
I mean males who have been raised by sluts without a father are more likely to see women as sexual objects and feel unable to cope with authority.

>> No.5909133

>>5909129
You feminists wonder why men think they can rape you. It's because they see women as sexual creatures.

>> No.5909134

ITT: /r9k/ and /pol/ educate /lit/ on why Jews and women are to blame for everything

>> No.5909136

>>5909129
>without a father

figures. men can't raise children

>> No.5909142

>>5909136
True, but women can't do it on their own either. This leads to psychological and developmental issues.

>> No.5909148

>>5909142
>This leads to psychological and developmental issues.

in men. you keep telling me that men are criminals and i keep telling you i already know this because i've been telling you the same thing

>> No.5909157

>>5909148
You don't care about children anyway, most of you are happy to abort them if it means you might not get to go out and slut around as often.

>> No.5909161

>>5909157
women wouldn't slut around if men stopped falling for it

>> No.5909171

>>5909161
men are too infatuated with women, honestly. So weak

>> No.5909176

>>5909161
Feminism encourages women to ignore most men anyway. It teaches entitlement to sex with attractive males, even for fat bitches.

>> No.5909179

>>5909176
>entitlement to sex with males they find attractive

So they're anti-degenerate.

>> No.5909188

>>5909179
No they are entitled. The average woman is now taught that she is beautiful and equal to the model and that she deserves a 10/10 alpha male provider.
Funny how feminism just reinforces women as dependent on men.

>> No.5909197

>>5909188
As if we all did not deserve the best possible.

>> No.5909203

>>5908816
So therefore saying "China isn't Communist" is true.

>> No.5909206

>>5909197
good to know. I guess I deserve a supermodel after-all.

>> No.5909210

>>5909188
>The average woman is now taught that she is beautiful and equal to the model and that she deserves a 10/10 alpha male provider.

source?

>> No.5909221

>>5909030
>Pinker
ayy lmao

>> No.5909228

>>5909045
Fun fact, Marx was socially conservative and wrote about 'niggerlike Jews' in his letters. A lot of the 19th century radicals were also pretty conservative in other respects by today's standards, particularly Proudhon. Not disagreeing with you, just thought it was worth mentioning.

>>5909188
No, you're a fucking idiot and also *massive* citation needed. what (intelligent) feminists care more about is employment, women's role in civil society and political rights/civil liberties in general. Most feminists reject both how models get used nowadays *and* the idea of a 10/10 alpha male provider. You're just seeing what you want to see, which is women subordinate to men. Are you so barren of imagination you cannot envision a way for men and women relating without one being subordinate to the other? I think you assume that by telling women they are worth something (which is the general message feminism wants to get to women, that in principle they can play an equal role in society as men and aren't condemned to a life of cooking, cleaning and obeying someone else), it entails saying they are *worth* being subordinate to a higher class of man. But this is clearly wrong - feminists want to stop being subordinate to men altogether, and why not.

Besides if you were a 10/10 alpha male provider why would you care anyway?

>> No.5909229

>>5909221
Does he mean Steven Pinker?

If so, top kæk

>> No.5909234

>>5909228
>Fun fact, Marx was socially conservative and wrote about 'niggerlike Jews' in his letters

Yea that's why "On the Jewish Question" was such a gigantic anti-semetic piece.

Oh wait, no it wasn't

>> No.5909237

>>5909010
>The Marxist dialectic literally comes from Judaism

It comes from Hegel, you dunce.

>> No.5909242

>le conspiracy to subvert Western Civilization

Why are comic book-tier conspiracy theories so popular? Is it all of the comic book movies?

>> No.5909244

>>5909237
>implying Hegel isn't an ideological made-up post-hoc invention by the Jews used as a subterfuge for their plans of world domination and white man subordination

back 2 tumblr SJW

>> No.5909247

>>5909242
Ever since the financial crisis libertarianism had a rise in popularity and said ideology goes hand in hand with conspiracy nuts.

>> No.5909289

>>5908948
Evolution doesn't refer to mutations that occur in an individual it is the change in characteristics of a population.

>> No.5909294

>>5909244
But Hegel was a Lutheran who dabbled in hermeticism. There's more to the dialectic than kabbalah. Marxist dialectic is materialistic enough to be called Jewish, though.
Jews can't understand Hegel. He's the last and greatest Christian philosopher.

>> No.5909300

>>5909234
'What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his
worldly God? Money.
...
We recognize in Judaism, therefore, a general anti-social element of the present time, an element which through historical development – to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed – has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate.
...
The Jew is perpetually created by civil society from its own entrails.

Because you can be emancipated politically without renouncing Judaism completely and incontrovertibly, political emancipation itself is not human emancipation. If you Jews want to be emancipated politically, without emancipating yourselves humanly, the half-hearted approach and contradiction is not in you alone, it is inherent in the nature and category of political emancipation [it is impossible to be emancipated and a Jew]'

I'll have some of whatever you're smoking.

>> No.5909302

>>5909294
>Jews can't understand Hegel

Racist pig

>> No.5909303

Anti Stalin Kruschevite revisionism

>> No.5909306

>>5909302
Why do you think Marx gutted the system?
Why did the Frankfurt school try to 'update' the dialectical system that Hegel perfected and which stands on its own, more correct than Marx's predictions about the rise of communism?

>> No.5909310

>>5909302
You're on 4chan Chaim.

>> No.5909313

>>5909294
>Hegel
>Christian

Hegel was a sorcerer. He emptied out the heavens and placed himself on the throne. His work reads like a magical treatise.

>> No.5909315

>>5909313
Yes, but it's impossible to understand Hegel without grasping Christ's teachings. He's far more Christian than he is Jewish, and he's more Hermetic than he is Christian.
In Hegelian history, history ended twice: once in 33 A.D.,and once in 1789.

>> No.5909322

>>5908747
>What are the worst lies told about Marxism and communism? In particular, Marxist theory.

That it is somehow different from Fascism and Nazism. That's the biggest lie. The biggest lie of all, is that the USSR was somehow seen as a corruption of the ideal, and not a factual representation of what happens when it's ideas are put in to practice.

If you read Mein Kampf, and see what kind of objections Hitler had to the Jewish people and then read Marx's hatred for the Jews, you begin to understand that Communism and Nazism are just different sides on the same coin.

>> No.5909326

>>5909322
This
The universal domination of the State is the end goal of most brands of fascism and all brands of Communism. The difference is that in fascism the state is for the nation, while in Communism the state is for the party. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing.

>> No.5909333

>>5909326
>The universal domination of the State is the end goal of most brands of fascism and all brands of Communism
... State domination as the ultimate goal for communists?
mmkay

>> No.5909335

>>5909326
>stateless classless society
>universal domination of the State is the end goal
I guess I know nothing

>> No.5909340

>>5909333
>>5909335
Clearly it is. Complete state domination wasn't a goal for Nazism either. They never said it was anyway, but that's how it ends up, because all their idealisms require a massive state.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions etc.

>> No.5909342

>>5909333
>>5909335
The concrete, actually existing socialism and the concretr, actually existing fascism of the 20th century disagree with your abstract and already negated in reality conceptions of Communism and fascism.
A classless society is a synthesis that will inevitably find an antithesis, even if it's in the emergence of a new class. A stateless society is an unrealizable dream.

>> No.5909343

>>5909310
>You're on 4chan Chaim.
You're on /lit/ halfwit

>> No.5909344

>>5909342
>communism as a concept isn't stateless because I believe it won't work

great thinking there

gb2pol

>> No.5909346

>>5909344
Do you have evidence that a stateless society can function or come into existence?

>> No.5909348
File: 50 KB, 1352x706, 1384031627416.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909348

>>5909344
>communism as a concept isn't stateless

It isn't even stateless as a concept. Have you read the Communist Manifesto? 99% of the things Marx wanted to replace capitalism with are not remotely possible without a giant State.

>> No.5909349

>>5909343
So I'm on 4chan still? Cool.

>> No.5909350

>>5909346
Do you have evidence that a thorium reactor can function or come into existence?

Don't divert the thread, communism is about a stateless, classless society, lrn2wikipedia. Just because it hasn't worked so far doesn't mean that it isn't included in the concept of communism.

againgb2pol its your containment board

>> No.5909354

>What are the worst lies told about Marxism and communism? In particular, Marxist theory.

It's a useless truism. It's obviously painful true that if the average Joe had more power and wealth, he would be better off.

The average Joe has been fighting for that since the dawn of time.

What did Marx add of any substance?

He didn't say how to actually get there. He just said the obvious.

>> No.5909355

>>5909346
They were pretty common in prehistory

>> No.5909357

>>5909322
>The biggest lie of all, is that the USSR was somehow seen as a corruption of the ideal, and not a factual representation of what happens when it's ideas are put in to practice.

But Stalinism clearly a perversion, Marx supported national self determination and Lenin dismantled the Russian empire, Stalin and his successors created a Soviet empire and viciously crushed any attempt at resistance, so how then were they "putting Marxist ideas into practice" when their policy was a complete reversal of the ideas of Marx and Lenin.

And how anyone can be stupid enough to think Fascism and Communism are the same is beyond me, Fascism exists to reinforce hierarchy and protect the dominance of the bourgeoisie, Communism exists to create a classless society Fascism is proudly anti-democratic, Communist parties in power always pretended to be democratic, Fascist governments where homophobic and sexist, the USSR was the first state to legalise homosexuality and abortion.

Really m8, you're a thick cunt tbh, you need to read more.

>> No.5909360

>>5909355

That's not a good argument. Nobody want a prehistoric stateless society.

I mean, just go live with an Amazonian tribe if you so desire.

>> No.5909369

>>5909360
You asked for evidence of a stateless society, not for a stateless society that you believe someone would want to live in.

>> No.5909370

>>5909350
This thread is about Marxism, not engineering.
>>5909355
The state of nature isn't something a society can return to, especially not in a postindustrial age like this one. Also, comparing pre-agricultural society's disorganized and informal states to even ancient Mesopotamian city-states, which were organized and certainly formal enough to have slaves, is begging the question of whether or not pre-agricultural social organization is even comparable to agricultural forms of social organization.

>> No.5909374

>>5909357
We could have an argument about the USSR being better than the Russian Empire, and I would gladly agree at least to some extent that it was, but the issue here is the practical conclusion to ideas.

>Fascism exists to reinforce hierarchy and protect the dominance of the bourgeoisie, Communism exists to create a classless society Fascism is proudly anti-democratic, Communist parties in power always pretended to be democratic, Fascist governments where homophobic and sexist, the USSR was the first state to legalise homosexuality and abortion.

Fascism might exist to reinforce hierarchy and dominance, but that's practically what the USSR did. They removed the aristocracy of the Russian Empire and replaced it with the Communist Party, a new class of bureaucratic elites, who were the same just with another name.

My point is that it doesn't really matter that Communism says it's for a stateless and classless society, when every single attempt at creating one has done the complete opposite.

>> No.5909375

>>5909354
>He didn't say how to actually get there
You've obviously never read marx if you think he never said how to get to communism.

>> No.5909377

>>5909346
Robot slaves would be required.

>> No.5909378

>>5909357
The perversion is what happens when the abstract idea becomes concrete. It's inevitable, and now we know that Marx's Communism and Soviet Socialism are moments of a single notion that cannot be grasped outside of its totality, I.e., in the sum-plus-one of all its moments. Do you even Hegel?

>> No.5909381

>>5909349
You're not on /pol/

>> No.5909384

>>5909377
And what if the slaves want freedom? Isn't that just rebooting the dialectic?

>> No.5909386

>>5909381
>Muh /pol/ bogeyman
Are you imying everyone on every board but /pol/ has to think that communism is perfect, or that you can have socialism without killing millions?

>> No.5909389

>>5909375

No, I didn't. I doubt anyone in this thread actually read Marx in any significant way. He was a horrible author.

Please do illustrate his way to communism, though.

>> No.5909392

>>5909389
>Please do illustrate his way to communism, though.

>>5909348
Pic related

>> No.5909393

>>5909389
>Please do illustrate his way to communism, though.

Capitalism -> Revolution -> Socialism -> Communism

>> No.5909395

>>5909377

Sorry pinko, but robots are not on your side, nor will they ever be. If anything robots are more loyal than armies make out of other fleshbags.

>> No.5909397

>>5908909
>buzzwords: the post

>> No.5909401

>>5909378
Lenin's supported for the right of secession wasn't an abstract idea it was the policy of the Bolsheviks.

>> No.5909403

>>5909393

But that is way I'm saying.

Socialism and Communism are in effect just truisms.

How a socialistic society should actually be structured economically and politically is not just a matter to be waved away as insignificant.

Just look at what a hard time the developing countries are having just to get to the point of
being well functioning liberal democracies.

>> No.5909406

>>5909348
>99% of the things Marx wanted to replace capitalism with are not remotely possible without a giant State.
He acknowledged that, and stated how to become a communist society, you would have to go through a socialist state period where things like that would happen, then the classes and state and money would be abolished so that it could become a communist society

>> No.5909413

>>5909401
Does that negate the tens of millions of deaths that happened in the Soviet Union? Or the hundred million that died under Mao?

>> No.5909414

>>5909406
>He acknowledged that, and stated how to become a communist society, you would have to go through a socialist state period where things like that would happen, then the classes and state and money would be abolished so that it could become a communist society

Indeed, which is why Communism is in effect an ideology that only manages to keep the capitalist order floating forever, because the socialist state period will be permanent.

>> No.5909416

>>5909413
>the hundred million that died under Mao

God it gets higher every day lol

>> No.5909417

>>5909406
How would classes, money and the state be abolished? By the workers? The ones that the Party does all it can to exploit?

>> No.5909419

>>5909416
If you don't want to accept that Communism has killed more than 100,000,000 people, you aren't worth discussing Communism with.
>inb4 capitalism also kills
Yes, it does. That doesn't mean Communism is a reasonable goal.

>> No.5909422

>>5909419
Everybody knows that communism killed a billion people

>> No.5909423

>>5909419
All worthwhile ideas are soaked in blood you fucking hippy cunt.

>> No.5909424

>>5909422
I don't know what your point is. Are you being absurd or are you stupid?

>> No.5909426

>>5909424
Fine, two billion then!

>> No.5909427

>>5909419
... How about discussing, say, communist theory?
It is nice of course to talk about Mao and whatnot, but the presumption that communists of most traditions - especially of the Western ones are somehow interested in his doings is nothing short of odd. It gets doubly retarded if the discussion is about Marx's theoretical work.

>> No.5909428

>>5909423
Yes, and that's why I support the Catholic Church.
My problem with /lit/'s Commies is that they act like Communism is peaceful when they all know it isn't. If anything, a Communist should be proud that his ideology is responsible for more murders than the Nazis ever dreamed of committing.

>> No.5909431

>>5909427
>Wahhh you're talking about practice! I only want to talk about theory!
The practical impact of Marx's theory is part of the discussion, whether you like it or not.

>> No.5909432

>>5909428
Yes, the resident Maoists and Stalinists who are oh-so-numerous. How about discussing relevant currents of communism?

>> No.5909435

>>5909413
>>5909419
What is your evidence for these killings?

And it really isn't fair to count the ones died from famine, and you don't care to count the innumerable amounts of people who have died and die daily from capitalism.

>> No.5909442

>>5909432
Like which ones? I'm all for a Zizek discussion.
>>5909435
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
Have I at any point defended capitalism? I'm just here to criticize Marxism.

>> No.5909446

>>5909442
Democide is the most ridicules concept of all time lol, people still take this seriously?

>> No.5909450

>>5909435
Because collectivization of farmland couldn't possibly have anything to do with food shortages.

>> No.5909455

>>5909446
Why is it so ridiculous? Are you suggesting no one is responsible for those deaths?

>> No.5909457

>>5909431
... Ah, I see. So where did he write about gulags? Or the cultural revolution? Or Mao's ramblings in general? Or even Leninist vanguard parties as opposed to communism via the workers?
Because if those are marxist theory in practice then they should be grounded in his writings, should they not?

How about Western Communism? It's got quite the long and distinct tradition. Or the fact that communism actually predates Marx?

>> No.5909459

Don't get me wrong, cuck/pol/ds and their "cultural marxism" hatred is retarded,
but there are people here that seriously advocate full Marxism?

>> No.5909460

>>5909457
You anti-maoist "return to Marx" types are the worst.

>> No.5909465

>>5909457
So you want to completely separate Marx from any discussion of what Socialism actually looks like, and you don't want anyone to mention practical revolutions based on the principles he advocated? Principles like a dictatorship of the proletariat, state ownership of the means of production, and global Communist revolution?

>> No.5909468

>>5909432
>Yes, the resident Maoists and Stalinists who are oh-so-numerous

Maoism is about what he wrote not what he did, and while he did make bad decisions, he wasn't the ruthless dictator who murdered zillions as many of you would like to paint him as

Stalinism doesn't mean anything; even stalin himself said he didn't write enough of his own theory to have his own branch of marxism, and its the same with him as mao; he wasn't the perfect leader and did make bad decisions, he wasn't the mass murderer you call him as

>> No.5909475

>>5909468
No, you're right, the states they led are the true murderers.
But they were leading those states. It makes sense to attribute deaths to them, just as it makes sense to attribute drone murders to Obama.

>> No.5909681

That the frankfurt school has anything to do with marxism and that cultural marxism is a real thing.

>> No.5909717

>>5908747

1) Marxism doesn't necessarily lead to dictatorship;

2) Marxism is great on paper but doesn't work in practice;

3) Marxism is a great idea but sadly it was poorly executed.

---

These are the greatest lies. For the truth, read Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" to understand how socialism's theory leads to dictatorship. It's not about "poor execution". It's already the idea that is tyrannical, in and for itself.

>> No.5909731
File: 120 KB, 598x337, 20121027_BKP001_0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909731

>>5909717
>For the truth, read Hayek's "Road to Serfdom"

People like this actually exist

>> No.5909738

>>5909717
>read Hayek
this is terrible advice

>> No.5909741

>>5908747
that marxism supports lazy people on the dole who don't want to work. lazy fuckers starve.

>> No.5909743

>>5909731
face it buddy, marxists are actually extreme reactionaries who want to bring back the stability of the serf economy but with industrial production...marxist historical analysis is interesting but the marxist policy goals are pretty much evil, assuming you like freedom

>> No.5909749

>>5909731
>>5909738
Hayek was quite the genius.. His revolutionary idea is that price=information

Centralized economies "override" that information and that causes the system to slowly crumble

While in a free market economy the system can "communicate" internally through price fluctuation

>> No.5909756

>>5909749
>communism = centralised economy

fuck off retard

>> No.5909757

>>5909717
>Hayek

pls go

>> No.5909758

>>5909743
This post is actually an excellent insight. I'm genuinely surprised to read this level of quality on 4chan, anon.

>> No.5909762

That it'll happen.

>> No.5909764

>>5909756
Insult me all you want, but insulting opponents won't make your utopian communist idea any less ridiculous.

In Marxist orthodoxy, yes, it is taught that before communism can emerge (the utopian goal), first there needs to be a period called "dictatorship of the proletariat"

True or not?

>> No.5909767

>>5909756
Under socialism, as it existed in the 20th century, the state controlled the economy.
You idealist Communists get butthurt over these things way too easily. It makes you look stupid.

>> No.5909775

>>5909767
The Marxists actually hated the idea that their movement was "idealist" or "utopian" - they called it "scientific"... in fact that's how they separated themselves from other socialists: by calling themselves "scientific" as opposed to "utopian".

Of course from the vantage point of today's post-communist world we can find the idea that they were "scientific" laughable; and we see they were just as idealist and utopian as all other socialists.

>> No.5909777

>>5909764
"Dictatorship of the proletariat" as Marx wrote, was in opposotion towards what he called the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie". Concretely this means that the proletariat would have democratic control of the state before its dissolution. So not literally a dictatorship.

>> No.5909787

>>5909777
So you admit that the Soviet state tried to have absolute control over its economy?

>> No.5909790

>>5909777
>A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois?

—Friedrich Engels, On Authority, 1872

>> No.5909793

>>5909787
Did I ever dispute that?

>> No.5909794

>>5909206
You do. Why the poor self-consciousness? Some slave morality humbug?

>> No.5909796

That it has not and is not bound to be the fool's favorite method of escapism and blame shifting. Marxism will forever be nothing more than "that thing that didn't work", a foot note in the book of Capitalism and the economic advancement of civilization.

The standard of living for the majority of the population on the industrialized world has given "the people" a lot more to lose than just their chains. Meanwhile the failure of the small states that try to deviate strongly from the capitalist tradition serve as "told you so's" for the bigger nations.

If anything, Marxism now is the mainstream term for "Capitalism with a safety net". As evidenced by the Nordic states.

>> No.5909800

>>5909793
You got into a hissy fit about how communism doesn't involve central planning. That's basically the same thing.

>> No.5909805

>>5909800
I'd hardly call the Sovjet union communist

>> No.5909813

>>5909805
Ah, the good old "No True Communist" fallacy.

>> No.5909814

>>5909805
And that's the problem: you fail to see the connection between Soviet socialism and Communism. One is supposed to lead to the other and can't be separated from it.

>> No.5909820

>>5909814
>One is supposed to lead to the other

Except it isn't. Soviet socialism is Leninist bullshit.

>> No.5909826

>Still believing in communism in 21st century

it's a dead religion, dude. let it go.

>> No.5909828

>>5909826
>"the capitalist religion is the ONE TRUE religion!"

>> No.5909829

>>5909820
Lenin was a Marxist. Unless you think only Marx's ideas are worth considering, out of every Marxist that has lived, that is a meaningless objection.

>> No.5909830
File: 2.25 MB, 320x240, stalin-stares-into-your-soul-o.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5909830

>>5909820
>>5909805

Revisionists gtfo

>> No.5909831

>>5909826
Communism is the opium of the intellectuals.

>> No.5909865

/lit/'s Marxists consistently prove themselves to be dolts and their ideology to be completely impracticable.

>> No.5909906

>>5909813
If a government that calls itself communist fails to adhere to communist principles, and you say those communist principles aren't communist principles at all because those governments didn't adhere to them, you're implying the definition of communism comes from governments that call themselves communists.
That's wrong. The definition of communism does not come from governments who call themselves communists. The definition comes from Marx. I can become the president of the United States and call myself a communist and then change nothing about the current system -that would not be evidence that the current system is already communist - that would just be because I'm not a communist. To recognize is not a fallacy.

>> No.5909918

>>5909906
A socialist government intends to become Communist at some point, correct? Or would you say there's never actually been socialism?

>> No.5909924

>>5909829
So critiquing a government based on something that directly contradicts Marx is critiquing Marx? I didn't know logic worked like that, interesting.

>> No.5909938

>>5909924
No, saying that Marx isn't involved on an ideological level with the Soviet Union is idiotic.
Lenin criticized Marx because that's how it works. St. Paul criticized Jesus, but he was still a Christian. Lenin criticized Marx, but he was still a Marxist.

>> No.5909955

>>5909918
I don't know, I haven't studied the history enough. What I do know is that calling a no true Scotsman on that is an intellectual cheap shot that you can't just walk away from acting like you won. All I'm saying is that most of your argument is making hugely illogical jumps.
All you can argue is that the type of communism the soviets practiced is ineffective. You cannot say that all Marxism doesn't work.
By the way, the claim "socialism has never been implemented" would be a gigantic stretch from "socialism wasn't implemented in the USSR".

>> No.5909956

>>5909938
Of course he was. But if the defaults of the Soviet Union had to do with Lenin and not Marx, Marxism is not bad, Leninist marxisism is.

>> No.5909963

>>5909955
I'm not >>5909813.
It isn't a matter of history, it's a matter of definitions. Socialism is defined as the social form following capitalism and preceding communism, marked NY a dictatorship of the proletariat and the seizure of the means of production by the working class, and a move away from currency, inequality, etc.
Claiming socialism has never been implemented basically amounts to a denial of reality or an admission that socialism can never work. This follows from the fact that numerous nominally socialist or communist governments existed in the 20th century. Many of these governments did socialist things, like seize the means of production by way of the state (governed by a party that claimed to represent the working class, and which probably did so more than it did the capitalist or feudal masters of for example pre-Revolutionary Russia).
Socialism has been implemented. It looks like the USSR.

>> No.5909972

>>5909956
Leninist Marxism is Marxism.
Marxist economics are purely critical. Attempts to run a government on Marxist principles will lead to a dictatorship of the proletariat and exactly what happened in the USSR. The fact that Lenin came up with the idea of a vanguard party doesn't invalidate what happened after it came to power, which involved the application of Marxist economics to a national economy.

>> No.5910010
File: 31 KB, 550x444, blaze up that herb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5910010

>arguing with conspiracy theorists
Save it, guys. Their containment board got shut down and it's no use trying to make them leave.

>> No.5910086

>>5908915
did you really make it to the 200th page or did you just search for "jew" instead of reading the book?

>> No.5910228

>>5909294
> Jews can't understand Hegel
Derrida did

>> No.5910230

>>5910228
derrida didn't do diddly

>> No.5910249

>>5910228
So, some claim, did Marx.
I disagree with both parties.

>> No.5910271

>>5908772
I don't think the point of Marxism is to jump right into it, its supposed to me a long process that who knows how long it could take.

>> No.5910273

>>5909357
mussolini gave woman the vote, didn't he?

>> No.5910286

>mfw socialism has been getting btfo for nearly 100 years now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPJWwiKnYGs

>> No.5910315

>>5909749
>price=information

i thought value was supposed to be subjective

>> No.5910324

>>5910286
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMdEp2UNrs

wanna see some lols, check this video, the kid he's debating is a reasonably knowledgeable about marxism and communism, so he's not just blowing out some retard, but he is blowing the dude out, tens years ago i would have been hanging out with those retards...i even have that "empire defeated" book that i bought at a protest in d.c. lelllllllll

>> No.5910329

>>5908813
These are all the poisonous offshoots of Christianity, especially the Protestant kind. That's about as Western as you can get.

>> No.5910330

That all people who think Marx was right are left-wing revolutionaries

A significant part of the most serious and dedicated students of Marxism and Leninism today aren't left-wing, but conservatives who agree with Marx in method of historical analysis and use the same tools to strenghten the opposite position

Mussolini knew all that. He changed position completely but unlike thinkers such as Eastman he never said "Marx was wrong". And it's like Trotsky wrote: a deep, honest understanding of Marxism can be like medical knowledge: you can attempt to cure the patient or find the quickest way to kill him.

>> No.5910331

>>5910324
lal at the anarchists at 5:20

>> No.5910335

>>5910329
strangely though the protestants and jews built america into the most dominant capitalist empire in history, so contradictions abound

>> No.5910338

>>5908747
>>5908747
That they are valid systems for a civilization.

>> No.5910363

>>5910315
How does a price providing information change that?

>> No.5910371
File: 886 KB, 3025x2181, img_7019-21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5910371

dude, holy shit....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbj9vISSNs

That's BOB AVAKIAN undercover, promoting himself pretending to be another guy lol

>> No.5910377

>>5908972
Science is great with descriptive knowledge, but it can't account for experiential knowledge.

>> No.5910380

>>5908747

The following are the worst lies about communism.

Communism works.
Communism leads to happiness.
Communism is a good idea.

This too:
>>5910338

>>5910335
Excuse me, what did the jewish people do for America?

>> No.5910388

>>5910380
>Excuse me, what did the jewish people do for America?

let's see: brought america into ww1 to make sure the anglo-world defeats germany decisively, soon after establish the federal reserve bank that allowed america to modernize it's economy

>> No.5910392

>>5910380
They served our interests by establishing a democratic nation-state in the Middle-East and they're our greatest, most reliable ally :^)

>> No.5910397

>>5910388
>All those implications

>> No.5910410

Capitalism provides opportunity and progress to the world.

Capitalism rewards those with a good work ethic.

Capitalism rewards those who have good ideas.

Capitalism rewards he who brings inexpensive, high quality products to his neighbors.

Capitalism rewards he who provides quality services to his neighbors.

Capitalism is the cornerstone of progress and development.

Communism won't bring happiness to people any more than capitalism has or will.

Happiness is an internal force; happiness is a decision to be made after basic needs are met. That decision is easier to make with the high quality of life a capitalist nation provides.

Capitalism is what lubricates the gears in the minds of the world's greatest men.

>> No.5910415

>>5910388

How are the jewish people at large responsible for these things? I don't understand.

>>5910392

Is this sarcasm?

>> No.5910431

>>5910415
It was sarcasm, yes.

>> No.5910432

>>5910371
what happened to the Raymond Lotta-Zizek debate?

>> No.5910447

>>5910431

I hoped so.

Have a good day, friend!

>> No.5910448

>>5910415
>How are the jewish people at large responsible for these things? I don't understand.

well, why don't you read some history books instead of meme lit

>> No.5910452

>>5910410
You're missing the final commandment.

"Thou shall not criticize capitalism, for it is from thence which all life flows."

>> No.5910455

>>5910452

What?

I don't believe that.

>> No.5910562

>>5908915
>this shit again

>> No.5910566

>>5909099
>Scholem was friend of Chamish
Really?

>> No.5910567
File: 126 KB, 1280x1092, Qliphoth.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5910567

>mfw Marx calls Prometheus the ultimate hero

Yup, Marxism confirmed for Qlipothic-meddling Jewry.

>> No.5910569

>>5910567
Lolwut

>> No.5910594

As a historian, I don't get what Marxists are saying really about class struggle being the engine of history.

Name me the revolution that changed slave economies from antiquity to feudalism?

And even if we were to find an example of how class struggle brought forth change, like say bourgeois society's major revolution, the French one, it never succeeded either, remember dummies? It was just the fallout that remained and infected the minds. We had monarchies for over a century after that, but never a Jacobin held state apparatus meticulously changing every fiber in the social body.
We can say that it hasn't fully succeeded in getting rid of all the feudal remains.

>> No.5910761

>defending Benjamin's mystical hallucinations
Jesus H. Christ, /lit/. I knew you were low, but seriously?

>> No.5910787

>>5910448
They weren't "Jews" but FALLEN j00Z m8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYVXen5cAPA

>> No.5910805

>>5910594

Very interesting insight. Thank you.

>> No.5910814

>>5910761
I know somebody is a clueless retard when he compares someone's philosophy to mysticism

I bet you're the same type of idiot that thinks you're shutting down debate saying YOU'RE LIKE THE CREATIONISTS OF THIS FIELD

>> No.5910843

>There has never been a Communist revolution in a free market capitalist country

Cuba was fascist and Russia was a protectionist-feudal mix

>> No.5910865

>>5909450
Why even bother with collectivizing if a bunch of people are going to die?

>> No.5910916

>>5909049
>I do not know much about Georg Lukács, but judging from his introduction of sex education to minors in Hungary during his time as Culture Minister I am certain he was probably a Sabbatean-Frankist.
LITERALLY DYING

>> No.5911206

>>5909063
>debunked
sshh, stop saying that because it's not going to become true, Financial Times boy.

>> No.5911645

>>5908747
That it works

>> No.5911685

>>5908824
Look at this faggot! What an idiotic idea!

>> No.5912293

>>5908980
It is literally satanism.

http://henrymakow.com/2013/07/cabala-embraces-evil-equates.html