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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:08:53 2014 No.5900775 [Reply] [Original]

"Hell is other people."

What did Sartre mean by this exactly?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:10:14 2014 No.5900783 >>5900775 He is a mediocre thinker, playwright, and novelist. Stop wasting your time with this hack. I wish 16 year olds would stop wasting their time with existentialism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:11:11 2014 No.5900789 >>5900775 M-maybe he'll forgive me if I finally denounce the slave camps. I'll buy him an umbrella, maybe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:12:40 2014 No.5900800 >>5900783 Who are some of your favorite writers?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:12:40 2014 No.5900799 >>5900783 Fuck off, he was as brilliant as Einstein.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:14:26 2014 No.5900811

This line is the denouement to his play Huis Clos (No Exit), a play which is like, 40 pages, tops.

Even if you are a slow reader, it will take you less than an hour, and it is readily available online: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Jean-Paul_Sartre.pdf

Not just to you, but to everyone with a question like this: you guys have the fucking internet. Find the direct source and utilize it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:16:04 2014 No.5900816 >>5900800 Just to name a few: Thomas Mann, Arno Schmidt, Gombrowicz, and Borges.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:16:12 2014 No.5900819 >>5900800 Not the guy but i hate Sartre and share his view: Proust, Flaubert, DeLelillo, Sebald, Mann, Joyce, Borges

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:18:41 2014 No.5900831

From what I've heard he meant that after your death, all what is left of you is your relatives' misconceptions about you (other people seeing you, remembering you and using you as they see fit, for their own egoistical purposes).

So "hell" is basically being scavenged by the memory of others, only existing as a corollary of others' needs. Not that it is necessarily bad, but this passivity is our unescapable fate, hence the word "hell".

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:19:06 2014 No.5900832

>>5900811
I read No Exit yesterday and wanted to discuss some aspects of it on a literature board. I read somewhere else about "the gaze" and "the look" but have yet (and maybe won't) read Being and Nothingness so it would be interesting to know what people with more knowledge about Sartre think.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:19:55 2014 No.5900843 >>5900816 >Arno Schmidt be honest you enjoy having him as a namedrop more than you enjoy reading him

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:20:07 2014 No.5900845 >>5900819 >>5900816 Why is Borges mentioned nine out of ten times on this board? Is he that great or are there just too many latins on this board...

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:21:34 2014 No.5900851 >>5900843 Stay mad, pleb.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:21:54 2014 No.5900854

>>5900775
Due to others beings falls into self-deception respect to every concept that determines them. In particular their own freedom, for every being is free (which is to say the same as being) but having other individuals around them modifies their behaviour accordingly to arbitrary rules which can have radical consequences for the subject, the presence of other alter the state of being of what is related to the individual (for which objects existed in the first place and whose relation has been nullified the existence of other (like a drain)) and at the same time the individual is objectified by others (perceived as a state-of-being rather than a being).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:22:05 2014 No.5900856 >>5900845 >Why is Borges mentioned nine out of ten times on this board? Is he that great Perhaps you should try actually reading him? Crazy notion I know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:22:27 2014 No.5900859 >>5900775 Go to prison and you'll see.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:22:56 2014 No.5900861 >>5900856 Or perhaps you should provide a decent answer instead of saying hurr read him

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:23:04 2014 No.5900862 >>5900856 >reading >/lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:24:42 2014 No.5900873 >>5900851 >Stay mad, pleb. typical namedrop poser response. prove me wrong. why do you like arno schmidt. and don't give some vague response, give a legitimate answer. if you actually can.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:25:30 2014 No.5900879 >>5900831 damn, that's pretty much how i've always looked at it. i should get around to reading no exit..

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:25:32 2014 No.5900880 File: 195 KB, 500x380, 1452538_612441088813788_2076112348_n.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5900775 Wasn't that Camus? Or is that "Man is Hell?"

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:25:58 2014 No.5900883 >>5900873 So I guess taking a class on the bloody guy is just namedropping. It's fine if you haven't read him, but don't be a presumptuous cunt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:27:16 2014 No.5900886 >>5900861 Good lord, his short stories are __SHORT__ bring up actual talking points, I'm not going to make efforts to satisfy you. I've rarely seen OPs with good intent being trolled or ignored, esp with a popular author like Borges

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:29:13 2014 No.5900894

We can't control them or destroy them, so we feel threatened by them. It's from Hegel's Phemenology of the Geist. The idea is we want to either kill or love what is different from us, and love here entails either making them more like us or bending them to our will. Of course we did that entirely, we'd lose our sense of self, because we need Other for that. So we're frustrated and in hell in that regard, constantly threatened by what is different.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:30:13 2014 No.5900905 >>5900886 >this awkward English Goddamnit, I knew it was just latins spamming him....

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:31:16 2014 No.5900913

Having read No Exit and some of Being & Nothingness, I mostly think of this line when I am thinking about doing something but then think I shouldn't because of other people's reactions, thus denying my own radical freedom and living as the They.

Basically just read Part One: Book IV of Being & Time instead. Being & Nothingness is just a long, Frenchy footnote to Heidegger.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:31:32 2014 No.5900914 >>5900861 >instead of saying hurr read him It's pathetic that this board has been reduced to anon becoming indignant when others suggest that they read an author and decide for themselves. Do you even read?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:31:45 2014 No.5900916 File: 155 KB, 440x626, 1350070525458.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5900845 Both

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:32:33 2014 No.5900922

>>5900905
You're retarded if you're not going to read him. I will give you an easy story: read The Garden of Forking Paths...if you can't see his brilliance from that story alone, which isn't his best -- it is just an easy way to get into Borges -- , then you are a lost cause.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:32:37 2014 No.5900923 >>5900914 This is so stupid. I probably will read him, I was just asking about his acclaim. The only way we even know who to read and who not to read in our short lives is through the opinions of others.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:33:53 2014 No.5900929 >>5900800 Tom Clancy, Anthony Horowitz, JK Rowling

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:35:02 2014 No.5900935 >>5900845 /lit has a hard-on for bookish erudition, and Borges is pretty much the embodiment of that. He's also an interesting puzzle-maker and a very fine short story maker, you should give him a try.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:40:58 2014 No.5900968

>>5900923

>The only way we even know who to read and who not to read in our short lives is through the opinions of others.

He is one of the most lauded writers of the 20th century you have opinions everywhere about him in far greater detail than shitposts on this board. It's not like he's some super obscure author that only a few people have ever read and one person in this thread just so happened to. You know all of this you're just being a difficult asshole about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:42:40 2014 No.5900978 >>5900968 lol calm down, I get it, he's one of the only decent ones you've got

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:43:36 2014 No.5900984 >>5900978 >he's one of the only decent ones you've got wtf does this even mean?

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:43:37 2014 No.5900985

>>5900968
This.

When I was a kid I remember some older cousins, uncles and my dad talking about Borges, and pretty much none of them are avid readers with a huge interest in literature, Borges is very famous, but he's also a amazing writer and makes me jelly for how smart he was

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:45:56 2014 No.5900995 >>5900845 He's what /lit/ wishes they could be. Well read, highly elitist, great thinker, great writer. Talented while still admittedly lazy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:47:23 2014 No.5901005 >>5900995 >highly elitist How was he highly elitist? Have you read his interviews? He is far from an elitist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:49:28 2014 No.5901014 >>5900984 It means he's a dumbass kid and believes he needs to "win" every exchange he has on 4chan despite every lurker thinking he is and idiot who should stop posting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:51:03 2014 No.5901021 >>5901005 he wore a suit and used a cane instead of wearing a potato sack and using a stick. definite elitist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:52:25 2014 No.5901027 >>5901021 True true. He was also blind, which is another elitist trait.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:54:18 2014 No.5901041 >>5901005 I meant in terms of how he framed his top 100 books. The list is basically /lit/s wet dream. I doubt anyone has actually read his interviews.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:55:21 2014 No.5901046

>>5901014

>he's a dumbass kid and believes he needs to "win" every exchange he has on 4chan despite every lurker thinking he is and idiot who should stop posting.

you literally indicted yourself here by playing nationalistic politics with authors and saying "he's one of the only decent ones you've got" like it's a game and they're sorely lacking in points and aren't able to "win" on the national stage.

that whole post of yours was one big projection. how could you seriously not see it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:57:22 2014 No.5901057 >>5901041 He -- like Bolano -- read everything: namely, he didn't limit himself to anything, so I highly doubt he was an elitist. And looking at his list -- it is definitely not elitist.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 23:57:51 2014 No.5901059

>>5901046
What the fuck are you talking about? I was making fun of that retard who is still trying to save face/shitpost about Borges. I described him, and quoted the guy he was arguing with. How do you enjoy Borges if you are this stupid? I literally referred to him as "he" and you can follow quotes directly up if you get confused about the one fucking person you were talking with. Holy fucking shit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 24 00:01:01 2014 No.5901072

>>5901059

>>he's a dumbass kid and believes he needs to "win" every exchange he has on 4chan

I get it. You can't just shitpost like every other bored retard here so you need to project because you feel all guilty over it. Just shitpost without the projecting no one wants to read you secret woes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 00:01:22 2014 No.5901074 >>5901059 I wasn't even arguing with the kid, m8. I was just asking him what he meant by Borges being the only decent one. Now this is my first time responding to you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 00:36:34 2014 No.5901175 File: 106 KB, 640x847, 640px-George-W-Bush.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5900816 >>5900819 >Tips fedora

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 00:39:45 2014 No.5901188 File: 163 KB, 750x932, xKazcZB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Borges is perfect for socially anxious outcasts. Sartre is better if you have friends and spend time actually doing things. This is an objective fact.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 00:57:19 2014 No.5901238 >>5900880 i thought it was Spinoza...

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 01:11:52 2014 No.5901289 >>5901188 yeah, Sartre is particularly great if you like shitty pseudo-philosophy

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 01:16:16 2014 No.5901306 >>5901175 breathes with difficulty

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 24 01:19:38 2014 No.5901318 >>5901289 I like that.

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