/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5898247]

Are there any other philosophers like Nietzsche?

People who are optimistic, life-affirming, with real nice prose

[Anonymous No.5898288]

>>5898247
Nietzsche may have been live-afirming, but he wasn't optimistic.

[Anonymous No.5898325]

>>5898288
How can you be one without the other?

"Embrace life but don't ever hope for anything"

[Anonymous No.5898343]

>>5898325
>Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man

[Anonymous No.5898494]

>>5898288
Transcending humans into gods is not optimistic ?

[Anonymous No.5898524]

>>5898247
Stirner is his dad

[Anonymous No.5898562]

>>5898247
>Are there any other philosophers like Nietzsche?

The Amazing Atheist.
>Edgy
Check
>Thinks he can disprove god
Check
>le nihilist and le nothingness
Check
>Completely misunderstood Schopenhauer and Kant
Check
>Edgy and depressed teenagers like him
Check

Enjoy.

[Anonymous No.5898567]

>>5898562

>I have no idea who Nietzsche was and what he wrote about

[Anonymous No.5898579]

>>5898567
What he said was spot on, though.

[Anonymous No.5898581]

>>5898567
Good, you're not missing much.

[Anonymous No.5898582]

>>5898579

It really wasn't.

[Anonymous No.5898588]

>>5898579
No it wasn't. Nietzsche never said anything about "disproving" God nor was he a nihilist nor did he misunderstand Schopenhauer.

[Anonymous No.5898591]

>>5898588
Yes he did.

[Anonymous No.5898595]

>>5898591

>You're wrong because I say and feel so

[Anonymous No.5898603]

>>5898595
Yeah that's what he >>5898567 >>5898582 did

[Anonymous No.5898604]

>>5898591
>le ebic crusade against nietzsche

You're so superior to those edgy teens.

[Anonymous No.5898609]

>>5898247
spinoza

[Anonymous No.5898610]

>>5898604
>le ebic crusade against nietzsche
Don't drop your tinfoil hat anon.

[Anonymous No.5898614]

>>5898591
good point man you're really smart and stuff.

[Anonymous No.5898616]

>>5898614
Smarter than Nietzsche for sure.

[Anonymous No.5899023]

>>5898288

You are an idiot who doesn't understand Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.5899026]

>>5898343

Yes. That is true. However, hope has nothing to do with optimism. Optimism is interpreting life in a positive way. Nietzsche saw that life is suffering, therefore he set up to find a way to interpret suffering as being positive.

[Anonymous No.5899038]

Anyway, why the fuck am I arguing with these idiots. The rabble was never meant to understand Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.5899062]

nietzsche was a bitch ass nigga afraid to admit schopenhaur and buddhism were right on the money

[Anonymous No.5899076]

>>5899038
>implying anyone posting on /lit/ isn't part of 'the rabble'

[Anonymous No.5899091]

>>5899038
>The rabble was never meant to understand Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.5899366]

>>5898288
Maybe you should actually read some of his work before you say silly things.

[Anonymous No.5899382]

>>5899062
>buddhism
>right on the money

oh lordy

[Anonymous No.5899638]

>>5898494
He didn't want everyone to. Most people would be the Last Man and that isn't very optimistic.

[Anonymous No.5899652]

>>5898247
>Nietzsche
>Philosopher

He was an autistic loser, a 19th century Elliot Rodger. Why do you people hold him such high regard?

[Anonymous No.5899661]

>>5898562
The Amazing Atheist actually knows who Schopenhauer and Kant are?

[Anonymous No.5899668]

>>5899038
Then Nietzsche fucked up, because he's easy as fuck to understand.

[Anonymous No.5899720]

>le tips fegora

Athiests are literally retarded

[Anonymous No.5900362]

Leo Strauss

[Anonymous No.5900368]

Nietzsche was never a nihilist his entire goal was to overcome nihilism. Whether or not he succeeded is another question

[Anonymous No.5900378]

AJ Ayer is life affirming and optimistic and he is so because of evidence, not feelings.

[Anonymous No.5900390]

Someone post that nietzche quote about fools and wise men and their debating techniques
it about sums up this thread if not this entire site

[Anonymous No.5900405]

>>5900378
But that's dumb. People don't fall into depression and commit suicide because evidence shows that life is meaningless, they do it because they feel like shit.

[Anonymous No.5900413]

>>5900405
They feel like shit due to chemical processes in the brain.

[Anonymous No.5900420]

>>5900378

where should I start with him

[Anonymous No.5900429]

>>5900420
Freedom and Morality will give you a basic overview of his whole work, I've found.

[Anonymous No.5900447]

>>5898247
Everyone's arguing but not discussing an answer to your question.

It appears you are interested in the existential aspects of Nietzsche. It'd be very easy to take a supremist approach to Nietzsche, but I agree with you, I've always found his take on the potential of the will to be quite forward thinking.

You may enjoy Satre, who's 'existentialism as a humanism' was the essay which made me read Nietzsche in the first play.

Also Alan Watts has a poetic but down to earth style. He has a way of making quite complex or far reaching ideas appear beautifully ordinary. Like he's telling us everything we already know.

http://youtu.be/emHAoQGoQic

[Anonymous No.5900450]

>>5898247
Kierkegaard

[Anonymous No.5900774]

>>5899668
Walter Kauffmann translated and wrote books on Nietzsche. He didn't share your opinion...

[Anonymous No.5900812]

>>5900774
Kauffmann also portrayed Nietzsche as someone friendly to humanists and fostered the current generation of Frenchmen and Anglos who regularly abuse snippets of his work, although I don't disagree with your point.

[Anonymous No.5900844]

>>5900774
Kaufmann is bad

And german.

[Anonymous No.5900852]

>>5900844
It's a shame Nietzsche wasn't as skilled an artist as he was a philosopher, he could have made some great shit.

[Anonymous No.5900877]

>>5899661
Yeah, I'm calling BS.

[Anonymous No.5900898]

>>5900362
Where should I start with Strauss?

[Anonymous No.5900915]

>>5900812
... I'm sure that the Frenchie Post-Nietzscheans couldn't care less about Kauffmann, and that their understanding of his works is certainly better than some random dweeb's on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5900921]

A lot of them except for the prose perhaps. You gotta be more precise, OP.

Also: Montaigne, I'd add Lucretius but he wrote in verses. It seems that the prose is indeed the harshest criterium here.

[Anonymous No.5900940]

>>5900915
Are you seriously dumb enough to imply that Nietzsche's writings support that product of the enlightenment known as modern humanism (which is basically atheist Christianity)?

I'm not sure of the extent to which Kauffmann influenced the French, I was just assuming they'd read him since he's famous for softening Nietzsche's work. Nice appeal to authority, by the way.

[Anonymous No.5900998]

>>5900940
>Are you seriously dumb enough to imply that Nietzsche's writings support that product of the enlightenment known as modern humanism (which is basically atheist Christianity)?
I'm seriously implying that they put Nietzsche to a good use and had a better understanding of him than you do. Fucking Wikipedia-Nietzscheans

>(which is basically atheist Christianity)
omfg what a stunning critique that's never been heard before. Did you think of it yourself?

>I'm not sure of the extent to which Kauffmann influenced the French, I was just assuming they'd read him since he's famous for softening Nietzsche's work
You're a fucking idiot. This must be one of the most stupid things I've read since your last post.

[Anonymous No.5901008]

>>5900940
>I'm not sure of the extent to which Kauffmann influenced the French
I mean look at this fucking sentence. Fucking look at it.
What the fuck dude
Are you fucking kidding me
Is this a fucking joke

I... I just can't. Really

[Anonymous No.5901023]

>>5900921
His heavy use of aphorisms and rhetorical flourishes and the evocative nature of his works as opposed to text book like writings of Kant or Hegel.

[Anonymous No.5901032]

>>5900998
>humanism is consistent with Nietzsche
Goddamn...how can you believe this? And then you project this lack of reading comprehension onto me with hurr wikipedia.

>>5901008
>I just can't hurr tumblr cant even
Nice samefag.

[Anonymous No.5901034]

>>5900998
>mfw when someone on /lit/ defends liberal humanism

[Anonymous No.5901042]

>>5901032
>I'm not sure of the extent to which Kauffmann influenced the French

[Anonymous No.5901043]

>>5901008
>can only point out the Kauffmann sentence
He got one thing wrong, and you focused on only that.

[Anonymous No.5901060]

>>5901043
Well let's see...
>and fostered the current generation of Frenchmen and Anglos who regularly abuse snippets of his work

He has no fucking idea whatsoever of what he's
talking about. Trying to fuck with post-Nietzscheans via this here "critique" of them is just fucking beyond dumb.

[Anonymous No.5901066]

>>5901032
>postmodernism is humanism
Just gtfo lol

[Anonymous No.5901073]

>>5901060
Mate, the only thing wrong with that is the "French" part, which you've already pointed out multiple times.The rest of the stuff he said should be obvious to anyone who has read Nietzsche, whereas your posts are wrong in their entirety.

[Anonymous No.5901077]

>>5901023
Lucretius would indeed be right on the moey, despite writing in verse. Heraclitus as survived in puzzling aphorisms, but I'm not sure you can consider him life-affirming.

[Anonymous No.5901080]

>>5901066
Are you implying the majority of them aren't liberal humanists/marxist?

[Anonymous No.5901087]

>>5901080
Those two things are very different, almost antagonistic. And most of them aren't "liberal" in the humanist sense, no.

[Anonymous No.5901091]

>>5901087
There are both humanists and anti-humanist marxists so I think antagonistic is too strong a word here.

Which definition of liberal and humanist are you using by the way?

[Anonymous No.5901093]

>>5901080
You're a gift that just keeps on giving.

[Anonymous No.5901105]

>>5901087
Yes, but I'm trying to say that these are the two categories which Nietzsche would be opposed to.

[Anonymous No.5901112]

>>5901105
Yes, the liberal humanist marxists that post-Nietzschean Frenchies were were, god damn Kaufman for spawning them!. I heard that Nietzsche was also opposed to married bachelors.

If only they had had Wikiquotes back in the 70's they could've understood what, say, the genealogy should REALLY be used for!

[Anonymous No.5901126]

>>5901112
I'm not conflating the categories, just saying that they don't fit with the main points of Nietzsche philosophy, and marriage was definitely not a main point.

And you seem to be very fond of the French mistake, why do you need to keep retreating behind it? You misunderstand Nietzsche's entire philosophy and then call me ignorant for a tangential point?

[Anonymous No.5901145]

>>5900378
This.

Why do people look to someone like Nietzsche for insight?

[Anonymous No.5901167]

Oh look, a thread on Nietzsche muddied up by kids who haven't read him, and are trying to be epik meme. Reddit is even better then this shit board.

[Anonymous No.5901174]

>>5901167
then educate us

[Anonymous No.5901177]

>>5901077
Alright I'll look into Lucretius. Thanks bro

[Anonymous No.5901218]

>>5900915
>be French
>understand the works of Nietzsche
Pick one.

[Anonymous No.5901997]

>>5900940
>modern humanism (which is basically atheist Christianity)

>Christianity=/=good behavior

Do you understand the contempt this brings? Hearing Christianity or religion in general infer a monopoly on the origin of good behavior?

[Anonymous No.5901998]

>>5901997
You realize that's basically what Nietzsche did right? He claimed that Christianity redefined "good" to whatever benefits the slave castes aka compassion.

[Anonymous No.5902016]

>>5898247
Heidegger
Gobineau

[Anonymous No.5902033]

>french post-modernists
>humanist

lmfao

its time to stop reading about people on forums and actually pick up a book or two.

[Anonymous No.5902156]

>>5902033
Why are people typing like those black humour posts on instagram? Is this an ebin new meme?

[Anonymous No.5902187]

>>5900998
>omfg what a stunning critique that's never been heard before. Did you think of it yourself?

What does the originality of the thought have to do with anything? It's true, which is the only thing that matters.

[Anonymous No.5902197]

>>5902033
I never understood this. Marxism may not have the same faith in rationality and the five senses as humanism, but don't they share the same morality?

I'm not well read on the subject, but I'm assuming that marxists are not merely aware of the fact that the lower class has a certain future, they actually support said future. I don't see how, if they assume that the uneven distribution is unjust, they are very different from the humanists in their most basic moral assumptions.

[Anonymous No.5902208]

>>5902197
>I never understood this
Really?
>I'm not well read on the subject
Yes, we can see.

[Anonymous No.5902222]

>>5902208
Well I've just started reading Marx and it definitely doesn't strike me as at odds with humanist morality. Perhaps if you respond with something that doesn't sound like a snarky teen girl, you can set me on the right path.

[Anonymous No.5902226]

>>5902208
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.5902229]

>>5902222
... So you're reading Marx and talking about French "pomos"?

[Anonymous No.5902233]

>>5902229
No, just asking about Marxism in general.

[Anonymous No.5902242]

>>5902229
>most french pomos weren't influenced my Marx
Out with you.

[Anonymous No.5902251]

>>5898247
>>5898288
He refused the dichotomy altogether and replaced it with one of his own:

>How high I had soared above the pitiful low browed chatter about Optimism and Pessimism with my two new doctrines! I was the first to see the actual contrast: the degenerate instinct which turns upon life with a subterranean lust of vengeance (Christianity, Schopenhauer’s philosophy and in some respects too even Plato’s philosophy—in short the whole of idealism in its typical forms) as opposed to a formula of the highest life affirmation born of an abundance, a superabundance, an affirmation free from all reserve even of suffering, even of guilt, even all that is questionable and strange in existence. This last most joyous most exuberant and exultant Yes to life is not only the highest but also the profoundest conception and one which is most strictly confirmed and supported by truth and knowledge. Nothing that exists must be suppressed nothing can be dispensed with. Those aspects of life which Christians and other Nihilists reject belong to an incalculably higher order in the hierarchy of values than that which the instinct of decadence approves calls good. In order to understand this a certain courage is necessary and as a prerequisite of this a certain excess of strength: for a man can approach only as near to truth as he has the courage to advance—that is to say the extent of the advance is a measure of his strength. Knowledge and the affirmation of reality are just as necessary to the strong man as cowardice, the flight from reality—in fact the "ideal—are necessary to the weak when inspired by weakness. These people are not at liberty to "know”—decadents have need of lies—it is one of their self-preservative measures. He who not only understands the word Dionysian” but understands himself in that term does not require any refutation of Plato or of Christianity or of Schopenhauer—for his nose scents decomposition.

[Anonymous No.5902254]

>>5902233
So what happened to
>>5902197
>I never understood this. Marxism may not have the same faith in rationality
in response to
>>5902033

By "same morals" you must mean "I read Nietzsche and he's the end-all philosopher and if you don't agree with him you've just not understood him"?

[Anonymous No.5902263]

OP,
Disregard all the shitposting itt. Read Rousseau.
Best wishes,
Anonymous

[Anonymous No.5902266]

>>5900852
>nietzsche's prose
>not art

[Anonymous No.5902267]

>>5902242
"Marxism exists in nineteenth-century thought as a fish exists in water; that is, it ceases to breathe anywhere else."

[Anonymous No.5902277]

>>5900413
People feel like everything due to "chemical processes in the brain". Shit's complicated.

[Anonymous No.5902281]

>>5902254
You seem to be confusing me for someone else itt because I'm only asking how you can bring Nietzsche to terms with Marx, not making any statement as to the truth of the former's philosophy. Maybe I made a mistake by assuming French post modernists to be in support of Marx? Either way you seem quick to mock but sluggish to provide an answer to something fairly straightforward.

[Anonymous No.5902294]

>>5898562
Oh my god someone actually thinks a shitty youtube celebrity is a worthy suggestion /lit/ is completely cancerous isn't it lol

>>5900378
>>Implying that evidence is inherently detached from the material world, and that emotions aren't real

You're one of those autistic Cult of Rationality people aren't you

[Anonymous No.5902597]

>>5899668
nietzsche is only easy to understand if you already know what he means from your experience with life

[Anonymous No.5902613]

>>5900413
So? This borders on the tautological and doesn't really mean anything.

[Anonymous No.5902614]

>>5902263
>Degenerate Enlightenment plebeians

Muh wise axiom of Locke muh general will

[Anonymous No.5902672]

ITT: Fedora's in all sides

[Anonymous No.5902686]

>>5899720
>Stephen Hawking
>Retarded

[Anonymous No.5902703]

>>5902686

He is actually retarded, he can't realize that if he believes in a fundamental truth in science, he believes in a god or something.

[Anonymous No.5902711]

For someone who likes Nietzsche I recommend never reading the Greeks (except Heraclitus).

Read whatever you will.

Don't listen to anyone in this thread. Bunch of fucking last men these fags are.

[Anonymous No.5902715]

>optimistic, life-affirming, with real nice prose

Ayn Rand is optimistic in man's own virtue.
She wrote 3 magnum opus on the Rebirth of Reason and the Virtue Ethics.

[Anonymous No.5902720]

>>5902711
Nietzsche adored Homer and Thucydides

[Anonymous No.5902741]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6G7qwjom4

would nietzsche have liked this song

[Anonymous No.5902759]

what an edgy faggot, suscribing to the Nietzsche opinions are the most undermensch thing that you can ever do

>Nietzsche says Socrates is a pleb
>"oh yeah, yes yes, nietzsche was right!"

It's like you like that Nietzsche drops his dick on your mouth and then you spit all his sperm around the world.

Also Socrates beated the shit out of Nietzsche on how he lived his life, he would have even beated him in a irl fight 1v1

yes i'm mad

[Anonymous No.5902774]

>>5900413
That's the reason people think or feel anything.

[Anonymous No.5902792]

>>5902711
You do realize that passage isn't a condemnation of the Greeks, right?

[Anonymous No.5902798]

>>5902281
>Maybe I made a mistake by assuming French post modernists to be in support of Marx
That is your problem.

[Anonymous No.5903557]

>>5898247
Henri Bergson and Gilles Deleuze.

Start with Bergson first. He develops many themes that are similar to Nietzsche: time and becoming, matter as images, élan vital, creative evolution...
(There's a nice reader "Henri Bergson: Key Writings", and it's on libgen.org.)

Then maybe checkout Deleuze's "Nietzsche and Philosophy" and "Bergsonism". Deleuze's three main influences are Bergson, Nietzsche, and Spinoza. So there's again a repetition of similar themes.

I still find Nietzsche most powerful, but these other two developed some things more systematically. Their writing can also be quite vitalistic but not on the same level as Nietzsche's.

[Anonymous No.5903752]

>>5902711
>For someone who likes Nietzsche I recommend never reading the Greeks

Nietzsche wouldn't like you. He was an accomplished philologist, reading the Greeks was his thing.

[Anonymous No.5903799]

>>5900844
>I myself am still enough of a Pole

[Anonymous No.5904383]

>>5898247

>People who are optimistic, life-affirming, with real nice prose

Except for the nice prose part, almost every human on the planet.

A pessimistic person is a rare person, i find. people tend to have this whole "my life has purpose and great things will have happen to me" mentality.

[Anonymous No.5904395]

>>5904383

optimism is a delusion that aids in survival.

[Anonymous No.5904410]

>>5903799
>mfw when nietzsche actually had no polish ancestry
>muh heritage

[Anonymous No.5904415]

Despite what people say about nietzsche being a virgin, he actually had syphilis that he got from fucking prostitutes.

I don't think you can be a virgin with syphilis