Girl who kept (accidentally?) rubbing her foot against mine at dinner but ignored my looks is a diehard pagan. Give me some literature that thoroughly debunks paganism so I have a conversation starter.

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Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:13:13 2014 No.5886633 [Reply] [Original]

Girl who kept (accidentally?) rubbing her foot against mine at dinner but ignored my looks is a diehard pagan. Give me some literature that thoroughly debunks paganism so I have a conversation starter.

>>	fagve Sat Dec 20 18:14:37 2014 No.5886641 You are a idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:15:42 2014 No.5886646 This sounds like a great opener and surefire way to impress. Just don't let your guard down, and remember that Men have Rights too. tips fedora

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:15:49 2014 No.5886647 >>5886641 Why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:16:49 2014 No.5886655 >>5886646 The fuck are you on about, I'm not an MRA.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:22:05 2014 No.5886678 >>5886655 >"Give me some literature that thoroughly debunks paganism so I have a conversation starter." At least not a self-identifying one.

>>	keker2000 !trap0OylHY Sat Dec 20 18:23:56 2014 No.5886683 Are you 10? Why do you want to bother a girl you like? Just ask her about that stuff, she'll eventually tell you how it all relates to her need of a strong female figure or something. Trust me, I used to be into that stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:24:08 2014 No.5886685 Buy her the poems of Alberto Caeiro and tell her you want to impregnate her.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:24:13 2014 No.5886686 >>5886678 >anti-paganism >men's rights activism >the same thing The fuck is wrong with this board...

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:24:40 2014 No.5886690 >>5886678 I don't get it. I'm definitely not a feminist, but I don't see how you would get MRA out of that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:25:40 2014 No.5886692 >>5886686 MRA's are associated with fedorda, and OP is EXTREMELY fedora.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:25:59 2014 No.5886694 >>5886686 >flirt back by trying to humiliate someone's beliefs, or humiliating her beliefs simply out of spite Yeah, that'll show her you're an alpha male!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:26:23 2014 No.5886696 >>5886692 Fedora is anti monotheism usually

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:27:07 2014 No.5886697 File: 480 KB, 474x632, fedora1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5886694 tips

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:29:37 2014 No.5886700 >>5886696 Doesn't fucking matter. OP is a gigantic beta.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:30:54 2014 No.5886704 >>5886633 Let me get this straight. Some girl coy flirts with you, and you are going to try to get to know her by telling her all of her beliefs are wrong? Well at least you'll get the chance to show her you can stand your ground.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:33:14 2014 No.5886710 >>5886696 Fedora is obnoxiously atheist, derpo

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:34:10 2014 No.5886715 >>5886704 >Let me get this straight. Some girl coy flirts with you, and you are going to try to get to know her by telling her all of her beliefs are wrong? God I love 4chan.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:34:27 2014 No.5886717 >>5886704 Women respect assertive men, they don't respect losers who kiss up and fake agree with them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:37:01 2014 No.5886729 File: 413 KB, 1200x1600, fedora5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5886717 YEAH

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:38:40 2014 No.5886737 >>5886729 >>5886697 OP's going all-out to restore his anonymous image.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:38:43 2014 No.5886738 >>5886729 I can't even criticize pagan religion now without being a fedora? Christianity is stupid enough, but paganism is ridiculously dumb.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:41:07 2014 No.5886747

>>5886738
Let her know this. She'll either stick to her beliefs (in which case she's obviously just a stupid dumb woman undeserving of your intellect) or she'll come to her senses and appreciate your liberation.

Good luck, OP. Fight ignorance wherever you see or perceive it, leave no stone unturned. She'll be rubbing her legs together like a cricket.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:42:50 2014 No.5886751 What kind of pagan is she?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:48:30 2014 No.5886769 >>5886747 Why are you trying to paint me as an asshole? Is it some cardinal sin on /lit/ to criticize paganism, or do pagans take massive fucking offense if you disagree with them? >>5886751 Take a fucking guess

None !trap0OylHY Sat Dec 20 18:48:54 2014 No.5886770

>>5886717
You should be assertive about all your life, that includes when agreeing or disagreeing. At the same time you can disagree with someone without asking people in the internet how to tell her she's wrong, that actually isn't assertive at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:49:01 2014 No.5886772 >fedora >fedora >fed fucking dora JESUS FUCKING CHRIST JUST STOP THIS HAT SHIT ALREADY

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:50:26 2014 No.5886779 >>5886769 >Why are you trying to paint me as an asshole? Because criticizing someone's beliefs and waving it in their face is being an asshole, you hopeless faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:51:26 2014 No.5886781 >>5886772 Are you being triggered m'lady?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:53:08 2014 No.5886787 >>5886770 I'm asking for books, dummy. If I'm going to correct her, I want something with a little substance to argue from. >>5886779 >criticizing someone's beliefs is being an asshole Wow, /lit/ sure turned liberal

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:53:28 2014 No.5886788 >>5886781 no i am being bored

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:55:10 2014 No.5886795 >>5886787 >Wow, /lit/ sure turned liberal No. Some of us, believe it or not, have turned down their autism levels enough to act in public appropriately.

great /lit/ thread guys !trap0OylHY Sat Dec 20 18:55:54 2014 No.5886800

>>5886738
Yes. Criticizing religions is like demanding to have jokes explained, it shows that you are failing to get the point anyway.

>>5886747
>She'll either stick to her beliefs (in which case she's obviously just a stupid dumb woman undeserving of your intellect) or she'll come to her senses and appreciate your liberation.
Or OP will make retarded explanations and she'll assume he's as dumb as he sounds. Although I guess that's an option in any conversation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 18:59:26 2014 No.5886811 >>5886769 >Take a fucking guess Hellenist? :^)

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:06:24 2014 No.5886840

>>5886800
>Yes. Criticizing religions is like demanding to have jokes explained, it shows that you are failing to get the point anyway.
Ah, okay, but religious people criticize atheism all the fucking time, their core works criticize atheism.

>>5886811
Something like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:09:03 2014 No.5886848 >>5886840 They don't start conversations with "HEY LOOK YOURE WRONG".

>>	None !trap0OylHY Sat Dec 20 19:14:06 2014 No.5886868 >>5886840 They sound as stupid criticizing atheism as atheist sounds when saying bad things about religion. It's like a retard race.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:15:10 2014 No.5886870 >>5886710 >disrespecting polytheism is obnoxious Yeah nah newfriend

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:21:15 2014 No.5886889 >>5886870 >all this enlightenment Please, tone down your glory, it's like Zeus', it might kill us mere mortals to behold!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:24:48 2014 No.5886897 >>5886868 Then since Abrahamc religion is inherently critical of atheism, it is inherently retarded. And if criticizing retardation is retarded, then you are obviously retarded for calling criticism of retardation retarded.

I love you too, silly !trap0OylHY Sat Dec 20 19:29:57 2014 No.5886925

>>5886897
I believe it's about how it's done more than what is done. That's why some people write books and get payed for being professional atheists while 4chan is filled with angry teens that target their rage towards religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:38:40 2014 No.5886962 >>5886925 And how you criticized retards was superior to how atheists do?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:45:14 2014 No.5886982 >>5886889 simple eric

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:51:49 2014 No.5887003

>>5886633
Just read Guenon. All forms of contemporary paganism are artificial constructs devoid of the vitality of tradition and serving only to add to the confusion and disorder of the modern world.

The only remaining authentic form of Western religion is (was) Catholicism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:54:29 2014 No.5887014 >>5887003 >All forms of contemporary paganism are artificial constructs devoid of the vitality of tradition have you ever been to a Helllenist worship?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:56:46 2014 No.5887024 >>5887014 no, and neither have you

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:57:55 2014 No.5887030

>>5887014
>artificial constructs devoid of the vitality of tradition
Not that anon, but I'd say that the lack of "vitality of tradition" is because any form of neopaganism is built from textbooks and archeological findings rather than a real, creative drive to establish a contact with divinity.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 19:59:58 2014 No.5887041

>>5887014
The point is that it is literally impossible for contemporary paganisms to have any connection to authentic religion because almost all knowledge of their forms and mysteries is lost. All contemporary paganisms are "reconstructions" on the basis of a few texts or archaeological findings, they are completely artifical and may as well be invented out of whole cloth.

They pretend to be anti-modern, but in reality they are simply another manifestation of the modern era.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:00:18 2014 No.5887042 >>5887024 I certainly have. only four people, but it was certainly not devoid of vitality >>5887030 Are you suggesting that philology and archaeology can have no place in the search for the divine? Because for Hellenists, they very much do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:02:56 2014 No.5887055 >>5887042 your the biggest faggot on 4chan

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:03:32 2014 No.5887058

>>5887042
I'm saying that you're better off creating your own belief system, since that's what Hellenists ultimately do by emulating ancient Greek cults. They can study and read and research as much as they want, but in the end, they're still not ancient greeks, just modern people dissatisfied with their lives trying to hold on to some romantic view of the past.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:06:51 2014 No.5887075 File: 1.94 MB, 230x175, 1405398792274.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887014 My fucking sides, what the hell is wrong with this board topfuckingkek >hellenist worship hurr jump off a building pls

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:06:56 2014 No.5887076 >>5887058 Er, if you actually believe in gods, you don't "create your own belief system".. The gods exist, that's that. I believe in the gods, why would I forsake gods I believe in just because their worship has been practically nil for a long time?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:07:12 2014 No.5887077 This is the dumbest thread on 4chan atm

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Dec 20 20:07:29 2014 No.5887079 >>5887014 He has and it's all the devil's doing to him. >>5887055 Tips foreskin

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:07:56 2014 No.5887083 >>5887075 Not all of us are lucky to be as enlightened as you are, O Cool One.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:08:20 2014 No.5887086 >>5887079 Fuck off you dyslexic college dropout.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:10:35 2014 No.5887092
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>>5887083
>No, I subscribe to neither atheism nor a Christianity, the two most mainstream views on religion in my developed western nation. For, you see m'goodsir, I am a believer in Hellenismos!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:11:45 2014 No.5887098 >>5887092 Is this seriously how you view faith? As choosing a favorite drink or song, and that people who believe in faiths that aren't common are just being hipsters? You have no understanding of how faith works.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:11:53 2014 No.5887101 don't date pagans. paganism is right up there with dyed hair and lip rings in terms of red flags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:12:51 2014 No.5887103 >>5887092 >damage control N-no, y-you're a fedora for believing in gods! Even though I'm the one being an obnoxious atheist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:13:16 2014 No.5887108 >>5887076 It depends on what you mean by "believe in gods". I'd personally hold that any gods are objective entities existing outside human mind, but rather expressions of inner processes. What led you to believe in greek gods?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:13:51 2014 No.5887111 >>5887101 Not this one. She's pretty pious and brainy, otherwise I wouldn't bother arguing the matter.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:14:27 2014 No.5887114 >>5887108 >I'd personally hold that any gods are objective fucked that up. Meant to say "I personally hold that no gods are objective..."

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:14:38 2014 No.5887117 File: 21 KB, 437x437, 1418371301632.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887098 >You have no understanding of my pure Greek faith, you dirty modern swine! Real men believe in the epic religions of old!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:14:53 2014 No.5887120 >>5887092 >nothing personel, kid

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:15:26 2014 No.5887123

>>5887108
/lit/. I looked into Hellenismos a bit and actually found some of their theology to be interesting and reasonable. I got the necessary materials for a prayer to Apollo, and it was amazing and really connected, and at that point I became a believer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:17:07 2014 No.5887130 >>5887117 Holy shit, I'm an atheist myself, but you're acting like a total asshole toward a faith for no reason other than to feel superior.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:18:41 2014 No.5887138 >>5887123 Do you see gods as external entities? How do they manifest themselves? Is the Hellenist supposed to please and appease them?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:21:26 2014 No.5887151 Surely the lack of evidence for any gods and godesses is enough. Does she worship Zeus or Wotan or what?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:21:52 2014 No.5887152 >>5887138 Gods are metaphysical entities. If we see physical manifestations of them in our heads, it's probably you being overwhelmed and trying to make sense of it. I share portions of my food with the gods and pray to them to please them, yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:22:27 2014 No.5887155 >>5887130 Faith is destructive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:22:52 2014 No.5887158 >>5887151 Dionysus and Demeter, mainly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:24:25 2014 No.5887161 File: 2.70 MB, 500x281, euphoria.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887152 >>5887130 >>5887123 >By Zeus! My thunderbolts will fall from the sky, and destroy thee ungentlemanly swine like ants!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:24:32 2014 No.5887162 >>5887152 When I was going through my Saxon neo-pagan phase I used to sacrifice some of my sheep. Then I realised it makes no difference and the gods probably don't exist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:26:20 2014 No.5887167 >>5887158 Those gods haven't been worshipped in 2000 years, if they were real don't you think they would be angry?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:29:07 2014 No.5887180 File: 159 KB, 500x375, based.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887152

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:33:01 2014 No.5887194

>>5887180
>live according to your subjective model of values that you define as good. If the gods don't agree with this subjective model of values you define as good then they are unjust according to your subjective model of values you define as just.
Great advice, Mark.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Dec 20 20:36:09 2014 No.5887203 File: 337 KB, 681x1024, Athena 16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887167 Apollo/Jesus and Zeus/Yhwh had them locked up. We gonna hafta spring 'em so's they c'n beat 'em down. >2000 years Less than that, actually.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:36:45 2014 No.5887206 >>5887194 >live according to your subjective model of values that you define as good Don't see anything bad with that. Care to explain your point?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:37:16 2014 No.5887209 File: 431 KB, 576x432, 1409843951485.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887203 How is this level of autism allowed on here

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:37:27 2014 No.5887210

>>5887162
Sacrifice isn't to atone for a sin unless you do something radical like murder. Sacrifice just means burning token portions of a meal, the Greeks it was the inedible portions, and then there's pouring libations.

>>5887180
Just because someone is just doesn't mean they won't give more attention to people who give attention to them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:39:29 2014 No.5887220 >>5887210 So you worship them to have their attention? Why? Do you ask them for favors, or just do sacrifices?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Dec 20 20:40:09 2014 No.5887225 >>5887092 Gasp Not The New Christian defense! Don't you dare tip your hat at us! Stop! Please! >>5887209 It's obviously play. Such a dung-heap.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:40:11 2014 No.5887226 >>5887203 >Apollo/Jesus and Zeus/Yhwh had them locked up. prove it. >>5887206 >Don't see anything bad with that No >Care to explain your point? The concept of good is subjective.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:41:16 2014 No.5887232 >>5887210 To Saxon neo-pagans we sacrifice so the gods will do good things for us.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:41:34 2014 No.5887233 File: 844 KB, 200x150, 1405394492823.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887225 >implying I'm not atheist who laughs at your reddit bullshit Do you really do it for free?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:44:31 2014 No.5887246 >>5887226 of course the concept of good is subjective. I live according to what I believe is good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:45:16 2014 No.5887247 >>5887246 What if the gods don't see that as good?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:48:17 2014 No.5887258 >>5887247 Why should I about care what the gods think?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:49:37 2014 No.5887264 >>5887258 It depends on whether you believe in them or not. I'm not delusional, I don't believe in any gods, but there are some Hellinists ITT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:54:00 2014 No.5887282 >>5887264 And they should ask themselves that question. Why do I care about what the gods think of my actions? Instead one could do as the quote says and live a life one is happy with.

« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Dec 20 20:55:06 2014 No.5887289

>>5887226
I don't have to prove anything. It's just my myth building of the state of things.
Constantine was instrumental in arranging a new age for the old gods to appear ... the way the Christian/Hebrew gods did.. Etc. I'm not writing it.

>>5887233
"Do it for free" is a Reddit meme, is it? Figures.
>Implying shits and giggles you pay me is free.
You may have missed the memo; the hat tipping meme is given by Christians pretending to be fellow atheists.
It is The New Christian defense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 20:57:36 2014 No.5887305 >>5887289 >I'm not writing it. Because it, like all religion, is fan fiction about nature. >>5887282 Aurelius said to live a 'good', 'noble' life. Not a happy one.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:02:07 2014 No.5887334

>>5887305
A good life, then. And since good is subjective, you are free to find what "good" and "noble" mean to you on a personal level. What I meant by a "happy" life is that, a life you live according to what you hold valuable regardless of what gods or other people think, being responsible for one's actions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:02:22 2014 No.5887337 >>5887220 I pray for happiness, one of the Delphic Maxims. Or for guidance, if I want something specific.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:03:15 2014 No.5887343 >>5887337 Why not seek happiness instead of asking for it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:04:09 2014 No.5887345 >>5887343 Not mutually exclusive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:05:39 2014 No.5887353 >>5887282 >Why do I care about what the gods think of my actions? Mostly because they're far wiser than you are. There's not eternal punishment for not being Hellenistst, but there can be rewards for asking for guidance. Eudaimonia and all that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:07:44 2014 No.5887364 >>5887353 How come they're wise? Where does their wisdom come from? >>5887345 why ask for it then? Can't one find happiness by oneself? Why should one seek the gods?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:13:34 2014 No.5887382 >>5887334 Like dominating the weak?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 21:24:56 2014 No.5887428 >>5887289 stfu cuck

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 22:17:00 2014 No.5887627 >>5887364 >How come they're wise? Where does their wisdom come from? Knowledge. >why ask for it then? Can't one find happiness by oneself? Why should one seek the gods? Happiness is not a binary proposition.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 22:26:01 2014 No.5887652 >>5886690 he was just trying to be funny and satirical but it didn't work. ignore him and move on

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 22:40:42 2014 No.5887710 Memes are a plague.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 22:58:14 2014 No.5887760

>>5887042
>Are you suggesting that philology and archaeology can have no place in the search for the divine? Because for Hellenists, they very much do.

The problem I think is that neo-pagans did not inherit their beliefs from a long and traditional line of pagan priests going back to the time of Ancient Greek, Norway, etc.

It's like those people who try to resurrect Christian Gnosticism from the Nag Hammadi without any deference to traditional Christian authorities and without any access to any traditional master of any of those gnostic schools whose texts are partially preserved in the NHL. You really can't do it and be an honest person. Most of said neo-gnostics have no interest in living the rigorous kind of ascetic lifestyles required of those schools represented in the texts nor do they know much about the belief systems beyond a few bits of trivia archaeology and historians have uncovered along with a few assumptions we can't necessarily prove with the limited amount of evidence we posses. On top of this, there is still so much we don't know of such beliefs and practices to accurately reconstruct them in a fully accurate manner if we wished to resurrect them.

Neo-paganism is quite similar. People who've read too many comic books, read too many fantasy novels and seen too many movies who are more consciously or unconsciously rebelling against modernism and the sorry intellectual state of Abrahamic religions and living out their chuuni fanfics than they are true believers in the Greek gods or legitimate representatives of that Greco-Roman-Egyptian polytheistic tradition.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:00:46 2014 No.5887765

>>5887760
>The problem I think is that neo-pagans did not inherit their beliefs from a long and traditional line of pagan priests
So what? If you actually believe in the gods, whether or not you inherited your beliefs has zero to do with their validity.

>Neo-paganism is quite similar. People who've read too many comic books, read too many fantasy novels and seen too many movies who are more consciously or unconsciously rebelling against modernism
Eh? The official political stance of the YSEE is for direct democracy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:10:35 2014 No.5887790 >Democracy, women's rights, and atomic theory (well philosophy that postulates atoms) all invented by pagans. >Christian bible is full of stories about god punishing people who tried to make the world a better place. >Pagans are anti-modern.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:13:51 2014 No.5887800 >>5886717 You don't know shit about women

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:16:24 2014 No.5887809

>>5887765
>So what? If you actually believe in the gods, whether or not you inherited your beliefs has zero to do with their validity.

But then you have to not only deal with the question of why the gods were neglected for so long, you also have to deal with the idea of what the rules are for worshiping them. Neo-pagans either pull the rules out of their arse or they claim there are no rules for fear of becoming like the Abrahamic religions they hate (neglecting the fact that a guy like Socrates was killed by the state for blasphemy against the gods and corrupting the youth according to the set religious codes of the religious and government authorities, so much for their happy tolerant apolitical religion), in which case they lack a certain structure as well as any idea of what the gods enjoy and how they should be pleased and what consequences result from neglecting them. Greeks, Egyptians and Romans were about as dogmatic, theocratic and clerical as any other religion and believed in the wrath of the gods upon those who pissed them off very strongly. Most of these neo-pagans are new-age vegan "let's all get together and hug" types who would have been out of place in Ancient Rome or Greece where people slaughter animals for no other reason to use their entrails for divination to explain why the gods or blamed people who didn't sacrifice to gods for the calamities of nature or the failing economy.

>Eh? The official political stance of the YSEE is for direct democracy.

The fact that they support the worst possible form of government as an ideology doesn't make me respect them anymore. And traditional pagans would have agreed since for them it was the gods who ruled, not the people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:17:55 2014 No.5887818 >>5887809 *to explain what the gods want

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:25:55 2014 No.5887839

>>5887809
>And traditional pagans would have agreed since for them it was the gods who ruled, not the people.

To clarify my statement here so there isn't any confusion, what I mean is that although the term "democracy" can literally translate to "rule of the people" it didn't mean direct rule of the masses in Ancient Greece or Rome which were more or less aristocratic republics run by free wealthy males. And ultimately these governments were seen as answerable to the gods and so the extent of freedom went as far as the state understood the limits that one could be allowed to piss off the collective will of the accepted gods. And introducing new gods without confirmation from the recognized authorities on such matters (the priests and oracles) was frowned upon if not punished by the state

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:29:55 2014 No.5887853

>>5887809
>But then you have to not only deal with the question of why the gods were neglected for so long,

Not really, faith in deity doesn't hinge on the quantity of worshipers or the duration of worship. If that were so, then Hinduism would trump most other religions for having so many followers for so long.

>you also have to deal with the idea of what the rules are for worshiping them.
There's enough on that. Not every customs and rule survives, most don't, but the universal parameters of worship worked within are recorded well enough. Besides that, I don't think there is one "right" way to worship the gods, I think what matters is employing a time-honored method of worship and doing it with dignity and sincerity. I'm sure, for instance, the gods would be just as pleased with the Egyptian mode of worship. It's like, if you throw a celebration to honor someone, it's not that there is a precise way to do it, but a time-honored way that's beautiful is going to be more pleasing to whom you are honoring.

> Neo-pagans either pull the rules out of their arse or they claim there are no rules for fear of becoming like the Abrahamic religions they hate (neglecting the fact that a guy like Socrates was killed by the state for blasphemy against the gods and corrupting the youth according to the set religious codes of the religious and government authorities, so much for their happy tolerant apolitical religion))
lol, fuck no. There were no priests who made the "code" Socrates broke. In fact, the exact instances of him breaking anything were never brought up, they were just loose accusations and he was prosecuted by the consensus of a jury, not according to a judge interpreting a law. More than likely he was killed for political reasons, since he was an anti-democrat at a time when Athens was using "spreading democracy" to justify imperialism, and stuck in a tight war with Sparta. To be an anti-democrat then would be like being a communist in the U.S.during the Cold War.

>, in which case they lack a certain structure as well as any idea of what the gods enjoy and how they should be pleased and what consequences result from neglecting them. Greeks, Egyptians and Romans were about as dogmatic, theocratic and clerical as any other religion

Fuck no. There were numerous mysteries with conflicting cosmologies, and whether or not the gods were perfect and how many gods there were was plenty open to debate.

> or blamed people who didn't sacrifice to gods for the calamities of nature or the failing economy.
But most of the sacrifice was just burning the inedible portions of a meal.

>he fact that they support the worst possible form of government as an ideology doesn't make me respect them anymore. And traditional pagans would have agreed since for them it was the gods who ruled, not the people.
There were no theocracies in ancient Greece, though. The ephors of Sparta were the closest thing, but they were popularly elected and were not priests.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:34:13 2014 No.5887866

>>5887839
>To clarify my statement here so there isn't any confusion, what I mean is that although the term "democracy" can literally translate to "rule of the people" it didn't mean direct rule of the masses in Ancient Greece or Rome which were more or less aristocratic republics run by free wealthy males.
Yeah, that's actually not true. The whole reason Athens paid jurists is so people who were not wealthy could participate. The number of citizens was certainly limited, having to have been a descendant of the original citizens, and most of them were land owners, but they were by no means "wealthy" by majority.

>And ultimately these governments were seen as answerable to the gods and so the extent of freedom went as far as the state understood the limits that one could be allowed to piss off the collective will of the accepted gods. And introducing new gods without confirmation from the recognized authorities on such matters (the priests and oracles) was frowned upon if not punished by the state
The Greeks thought pretty much every religion worshiped the same gods, just with different names. Introducing foreign customs as part of public worship was more of a question of political loyalty than religious concern. For instance, if you introduce Persian mode of worship, it could be seen as a sign of political allegiance to the Persians.

Anonymous Sat Dec 20 23:51:00 2014 No.5887915

I hate the fedora meme so much, if anyone criticizes religion their opinion is automatically discarded, even if their point is valid. Yeah OP is an asshole for trying to trash this girls beliefs, but paganism in the 21st century is fucking iron pill level stupid.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:01:49 2014 No.5887939 >>5887915 Why am I an asshole? You just said yourself paganism is stupid, does disagreeing with stupidity make you an asshole?

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:23:37 2014 No.5888001

>>5887839
>although the term "democracy" can literally translate to "rule of the people" it didn't mean direct rule of the masses in Ancient Greece or Rome which were more or less aristocratic republics run by free wealthy males.

And this is different from our democratic republic how?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:25:43 2014 No.5888008 Good thread OP. I guffawed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:27:04 2014 No.5888010 >>5886633 And what will debunking a (wo)man's beliefs do for you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:33:17 2014 No.5888031 >>5888010 Give me an excuse to converse with her. She kept rubbing my foot at a table and sucking on a candy cane, but she kept looking away whenever I looked at her, so I'm afraid to talk to her without a good excuse.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:45:52 2014 No.5888084 >>5888031 If she's a pagan, impress her by showing her how much of a manly viking you are, don't try to debate her like some wussy Christian monk.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:46:01 2014 No.5888086 >>5888031 Tell her you have foot fungus and she should stop rubbing your feet. That will break the ice.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:47:08 2014 No.5888090 >>5888084 She's a Greek pagan

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:47:29 2014 No.5888092 >>5888031 Ayyo lemme nut on you girl!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:51:23 2014 No.5888103 File: 18 KB, 247x274, disney theology.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5887123 >/lit/ convinced me zeus is real

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 00:54:40 2014 No.5888111 >>5888090 Oh, then try ignoring her harder and fuck little boys instead. That's what Hellenistic woman like, eventually she'll drag you into bed and reverse rape you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:00:03 2014 No.5888129 File: 20 KB, 480x360, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5888103

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:01:06 2014 No.5888132

>>5887939
You're picking an argument with someone who most likely won't listen to you and all you are going to do is piss her off. Let her wallow in her own self imposed stupidity. She chose to believe that bullshit for a reason, it'll be like trying to explain to /pol/tards why they are wrong. It's a waste of time.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:03:32 2014 No.5888142 >>5888132 She is about 8000% better read than most /pol/tards, and she can speak Latin and is learning Greek. So not the same thing at all.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:13:53 2014 No.5888185

>>5887853
>Not really, faith in deity doesn't hinge on the quantity of worshipers or the duration of worship.

That's not the point being made. The point is you have to be able to reasonably defend this religion and its validity.

1.Why were the gods neglected for so long?
2.Why did the gods not do anything to stop their neglect during the destruction of their temples, idols and the loss of their followers to other seemingly new faith systems which denied their authority or existence or cursed them as lying false gods?
3. How does one live a life pleasing to the gods?
4. Who now has the authority to interpret the gods' will and what sort of life is pleasing to them?
5. From whom does one receive this authority and what is the methodology by which one arrived at this interpretation? By direct inspiration from the gods or by one who has been initiated into a traditional priesthood that possesses the authority to interpret the gods' will as related by others who've had such experiences?
6. Should all the gods be followed or should only some be followed and not others? If the latter, than which gods and who says this must be so?
7. How does one determine which gods are good and which gods are bad?
8. What value is there in being a "god" or worshiping one if being a god does not mean that one is virtuous, good or noble?

These are all legitimate questions to ask virtually any supposed religion and which I have yet to see any neo-pagan adequately answer from a traditional pagan point of view. Not only do they seem unable to defend their faith without falling back on subjective arguments and sophistry, but they also seem unable to justify their authority to interpret or re-interpret the pagan tradition. The only reason people accept it because our society is a secular and post-Protestant world where it's not seen as a big deal for any old yokel to just pick up an ancient text and try to interpret it.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:16:16 2014 No.5888192

>>5887790
They're not anti-modern, that's kind of the point people have been trying to make ITT. The problem is that they claim to returning to some kind of ancient tradition, when in fact they are just manifesting the inherent sickness of la modernité.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:17:08 2014 No.5888193

>>5887853

>In fact, the exact instances of him breaking anything were never brought up, they were just loose accusations and he was prosecuted by the consensus of a jury, not according to a judge interpreting a law.

You seem to think that because the accusations were false that this means my point isn't valid, when the issue raised was that such accusations were enough to scandalize the population or authorities that they saw it fit to him to put him on trial for such things as blaspheming the gods or inventing new ones which were also seen as means of corruption of the youth of Athens. Such famous incidents as these show that the people of the ancient world were very god conscious and believed that it was their duty to uproot religious deviancy through means of official institutions. Whether the final decision of whether the person was guilty of such thing was reached by a jury (normally made up of reputable men) or a single judge is irrelevant.

>More than likely he was killed for political reasons, since he was an anti-democrat at a time when Athens was using "spreading democracy" to justify imperialism, and stuck in a tight war with Sparta.

That's not what the sources tell us were the crimes he was put to death for, at least not exclusively.

>To be an anti-democrat then would be like being a communist in the U.S.during the Cold War.

One of the reasons Americans hated communists back then was because they were seen as godless, just so you know. If anything, that was the one idea that most Americans could not tolerate, even if they held socialist sympathies themselves.

>Fuck no. There were numerous mysteries with conflicting cosmologies, and whether or not the gods were perfect and how many gods there were was plenty open to debate.

This doesn't mean jack. Most "theocracies" never matched the level of authoritarian control of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was in fact an exceptionally powerful institution among all world religions. Not even Islamic religious institutions and caliphates ever managed to reach such a level of social and political control, let alone the Orthodox or Confucian world. The fact that a wide range of views were tolerated in the ancient pagan world of Greece or Rome does not mean that there wasn't a certain consensus or imperial yardstick on what was or what wasn't acceptable religious belief. Different groups were tolerated because they either weren't seen as a threat to the official religious establishments favored by the centers of power or such groups had enough influence socially or politically help hold back the arms of those who would like to see them officially prosecuted for their deviant beliefs. The Christians and Jews living under Roman paganism are a good example of these. The Emperor was also the high priest of the Roman religion and people often saw the iconoclasm of many Christians and Jews as threatening to their religious values or safety.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:17:52 2014 No.5888196 >>5888192 Christianity is modernity.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:20:08 2014 No.5888204

>>5887853
>>5887866

>But most of the sacrifice was just burning the inedible portions of a meal.

And some of these vegan neo-pagans would have hated that.

>There were no theocracies in ancient Greece, though. The ephors of Sparta were the closest thing, but they were popularly elected and were not priests.

I think your conception of a "theocracy" here is not general but specifically referring to something like Catholic Europe, which like I said, was exceptional Not even the caliphates matched that level of social control.

>The number of citizens was certainly limited, having to have been a descendant of the original citizens, and most of them were land owners, but they were by no means "wealthy" by majority.

that's still an aristocracy since aristocrats don't necessarily have to be rich in terms of monetary wealth and usually inherent their status.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:20:33 2014 No.5888205

>>5888196
Indeed, traditional Christian civilization ended with the Middle Ages. However, Christianity (not including Protestantism of course) is the only remaining Western religion which could plausibly be used to re-establish a traditional civilization.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:22:52 2014 No.5888212

>>5887866
>The Greeks thought pretty much every religion worshiped the same gods, just with different names. Introducing foreign customs as part of public worship was more of a question of political loyalty than religious concern. For instance, if you introduce Persian mode of worship, it could be seen as a sign of political allegiance to the Persians.

Yes and no. Christians and Jews were seen as suspicious or even outright despised because their religion had no room for the official gods of the Roman Empire or their worship. And any religion which couldn't be harmonized with the Roman manifestation of paganism was not tolerated if it was seen as a threat to the establishment of the Imperial religion and its essential values. In Ancient Rome, it was more like this:

1. Religions which were accepted because they basically the same as the imperial religion with the same gods by different names except maybe different modes of worship, thus they were seen as legitimate belief.
2. Religious systems or concepts which were not incorporated officially but were tolerated officially to the extent that notable members of the government were sympathetic to them or to the extent that were not seen as a threat to the official religion's establishment.
3. Religions which were not tolerated because they were seen as threats to the establishment of the official religion, its values and thus the government order which it sanctioned.

A lot of pagans were perfectly willing to incorporate Jesus Christ as a god in their pantheons and some early Christians didn't completely shed polytheism, but many of the most vociferous Christians denied the existence of all other gods or their efficacy and thus did not participate in the religious rituals which consolidated the authority of the Emperor and promoted the values of the Imperial religion. For such reasons, they came to be seen as threats who had to be purged or at least forced to participate in the rituals.

It seems like you think that there was separation of religion and politics here or all of such things as these can be explained by non-religious political concerns and that doesn't apply to any premodern society in which the vast majority of people had a religious worldview and no government established itself without a religious justification of its power.

But the point here is that neo-paganism has very little in common with truly ancient paganism, both religiously and especially politically and so the question is do such people have the authority to interpret pagan religion in the way that they do? All answers seem to point to no. At least there are many Protestant denominations which nonetheless still abide by the old church councils and thus are tied to the ancient Church tradition. Many neo-pagans seem to selectively picking whatever they find in ancient texts simply because there's no one around who represents the old pagan religions to say they can't.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:22:54 2014 No.5888213

>>5888204
>I think your conception of a "theocracy" here is not general but specifically referring to something like Catholic Europe, which like I said, was exceptional Not even the caliphates matched that level of social control.

lol this is bullshit.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:25:02 2014 No.5888224

>>5888204
>that's still an aristocracy since aristocrats don't necessarily have to be rich in terms of monetary wealth and usually inherent their status.
Not that anon, but are you suggesting that any nation that doesn't let non-citizens vote is an aristocracy?

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:29:17 2014 No.5888228
File: 115 KB, 623x443, cupid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Maiden, besooth,

For the god's are here in this very room, at this moment!

Jupiter's cock himself is in my breeches, and if I do not mistake, the warm seas of poseidon flood yours!

You, maiden with the torturous ankle of aphrodite and the eyes of medusa, surely you must love me for why else would you not lay your gaze upon my countenance?

Let us flee from here into the warm embrace of the night, and lie under the bowes of a supple oak near the Satyr's grove, under the fervent guard of the moon. Come- Venus is bright tonight!

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:37:05 2014 No.5888245

>>5888213

Except it isn't. Islam fractured soon after Muhammad's death and the Muslims descended into bloody civil wars over religious and political authority which still affect them today. And many Muslim dynasties were forced accommodate for other Muslim schools of thought that challenged their own for the sake of political expediency, in addition to having to make room for dhimmis. Islam never was able to develop anything as powerful as the papacy, even though many Muslims have tried to emulate it. And the Orthodox world doesn't exactly compare with all its different language churches and archbishops. And neither do Confucian and Taoist China.

>>5888224

no, but a society run mostly by land and slave owners who don't make up the majority of the population who resides within that state kinda is. "Citizens" didn't necessarily constitute the majority of the people living in the Greek city-states.

aristocracy="rule of the best"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:38:31 2014 No.5888249 >>5888192 Modernity is a good thing you reactionary pig. Better is better than worse. More is more than less, this isn't a hard concept to understand.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:39:09 2014 No.5888252 >>5888245 So what would you call the government before Solon?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:39:23 2014 No.5888253 >>5888249 define "better"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:41:17 2014 No.5888254 >>5888253 Things that you fagots hate. Wealth, diversity, freedom. Permissive sexual attitudes,

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:43:04 2014 No.5888255 >>5888245 Factoring in women, minors and slaves, a significant majority couldn't vote in 19th Century U.S. Therefore the U.S. was an aristocracy?

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:45:08 2014 No.5888258

>>5888254
>Wealth

why should anyone care?

>diversity

are you saying diversity for diversity's sake is good, regardless?

>freedom

pretty subjective concept there.

>Permissive sexual attitudes,

surely you don't think all sexuality is moral.

you only support "modernity" as long as you derive what you want out of it, which is pretty narcissistic, if you ask me. Traditional societies generally understood that the individual was not at the center of things.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:46:09 2014 No.5888259 File: 296 KB, 445x633, gotta_jew_fast.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5888249 >Modernity is a good thing

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 01:48:49 2014 No.5888266 >>5888252 pretty aristocratic. >>5888255 Probably could be considered as such or at least an oligarchy

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:04:19 2014 No.5888293 >>5888266 >Probably could be considered as such So, basically, you have the word "democracy" employed in such-and-such a way for 2500 years, and here you come saying its application was wrong?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:06:13 2014 No.5888294 >>5888266 >pretty aristocratic. Yes. Solon was the one who ended aristocracy in Greece.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:14:29 2014 No.5888303

>>5888293

I'm saying the idea of aristocracy and democracy being antagonistic tells us more about our own values than Ancient Greece. Ancient Greece was both democratic and aristocratic. You can have both.

>>5888294

He didn't completely end it as much as he attempted to counter balance it a little more. A truly non-aristocratic or truly egalitarian government would require a more direct democracy and a complete destruction of the rights and titles of nobility as well as probably the elimination of free enterprise to prevent the nouveau riche from just assuming all the power of the former land owners and nobles.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:19:37 2014 No.5888314

>>5888303
He increased the citizen count ten-fold.

> A truly non-aristocratic or truly egalitarian government would require a more direct democracy
There has never been government where everyone could vote that was direct democracy. You're just appropriating the term "democracy" to mean a utopia that will never happen.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:26:31 2014 No.5888329

>>5888314
>He increased the citizen count ten-fold.
That doesn't necessarily mean a society can't still be aristocratic or oligarchical

>There has never been government where everyone could vote that was direct democracy.

Did I say there was?

>You're just appropriating the term "democracy" to mean a utopia that will never happen.

Um...no I'm not, in the post you quoted I said the exact opposite as a matter of fact, that a society can be aristocratic and democratic in the general sense of these words and thus direct democracy is merely a form of democracy based on egalitarian values as opposed to aristocratic ones. And I was originally pointing out the irony in a pagan society promoted direct democracy as opposed to the traditional aristocratic values one found in practically every ancient pagan society

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:29:51 2014 No.5888338

>>5888329
>And I was originally pointing out the irony in a pagan society promoted direct democracy as opposed to the traditional aristocratic values one found in practically every ancient pagan society
I don't see what's wrong with that. Israel isn't based upon Mosaic Law.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:39:19 2014 No.5888365

>>5888338
>I don't see what's wrong with that.

That's your opinion. I'm not trying to shit on you, I just think it highlights some of the discontinuity between these new pagans and ancient pagan along with the fact their dubious piety.

>Israel isn't based upon Mosaic Law.

Honestly, a lot of traditional Jews hate that fact. That and the Israeli state was based on a secular ideology and conception of race and nationalism, not religion. The early Zionist leaders and the rabbinical authorities actually hated each other, it wasn't until some time after WW2 that you saw the emergence of a more religiously minded Zionism, but these Zionists still want to implement Mosaic law in the Israeli state

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:40:20 2014 No.5888366 >>5888365 *along with their dubious sense of piety and claims to religious authority.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:48:00 2014 No.5888382

>>5888258
What do you propose is better? You reactionaries talk abut how modern individualism is "Narcissistic" and "Egotistical" But you fail to provide a good reason as to why we shouldn't care about ourselves. Not trying to be Randian here, but if people shouldn't care about their own happiness, why should they care about anything else?

Traditional societies de-emphisize the individual because a collective effort is necessary for group survival. But even in that case, they are still working to improve the lives of each individual (or at least a selection of individuals).

Modern society means the individual can be satisfied without sacrificing the integrity of the group. You can have it both ways. Putting too much emphasis on tradition "Just because" is either narrow minded, willfully ignorant, or just resentful of other's success.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:55:47 2014 No.5888401

>>5888365
>That's your opinion. I'm not trying to shit on you, I just think it highlights some of the discontinuity between these new pagans and ancient pagan along with the fact their dubious piety.
You seem to be conflating Greek politics with religious law. Contemporary Hellenists, or at least that group, see total direct democracy as a natural evolution of the Greek tradition for modern times. But it doesn't have to do with divine order.

>That and the Israeli state was based on a secular ideology and conception of race and nationalism, not religion.
Ah, but if you convert to Judaism, you're eligible for citizenship.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 02:56:56 2014 No.5888404 >>5888366 Eh, I don't claim any religious authority, but my piety is certainly genuine.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 04:15:58 2014 No.5888525

>>5888382
>You reactionaries talk abut how modern individualism is "Narcissistic" and "Egotistical"

Because it kinda is

>But you fail to provide a good reason as to why we shouldn't care about ourselves. Not trying to be Randian here, but if people shouldn't care about their own happiness, why should they care about anything else?

It's not that we shouldn't care about ourselves, but traditional societies didn't really see the individual as necessarily the goal nor did they normally recognize the existence of an individual in the way we understand it as an independent being since true independence and individuality was the providence of gods.

>Modern society means the individual can be satisfied without sacrificing the integrity of the group. You can have it both ways.

Traditional societies did the same thing. Just because the rules and values of those societies are too strict for you doesn't mean most people weren't for the most part content with them when things were stable.

>>5888401
>But it doesn't have to do with divine order.

That's kind of the problem though. Ancient Greeks didn't really see religion and politics as separate anymore than the monotheisms did. Even democracy as the Greeks conceived it still reflected aspects of the divine order as far as polytheism understood it. The reason monotheisms weren't very democratic for the longest time was because of their understanding of the divine order.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 04:30:38 2014 No.5888545

>>5888525
>That's kind of the problem though. Ancient Greeks didn't really see religion and politics as separate anymore than the monotheisms did
Yeah, not exactly. There were two facets to religion: there was the communal worship and variant of Hellenismos, which served as expression of community membership, only citizens could be part of it, and all citizens were very expected to participate. Then there was the broader theological aspect, the seat of which was Delphi. Delphi was politically neutral.

> Even democracy as the Greeks conceived it still reflected aspects of the divine order as far as polytheism understood it.
Not really. Democracy, even Greek democracy, was mostly limited to Athens. The most religious polis of Greece was Sparta, and their political system was nothing like the rest of Greece's.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 12:15:10 2014 No.5889707 Aristotle's Metaphysics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 13:28:36 2014 No.5889838 >>5886633 What do you mean, "pagan"? There're just a few pagan religions, and they're not the same.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 13:30:48 2014 No.5889844 >>5886717 OP isn't assertive if he can't assert his atheism without asking 4chan for advice.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 15:56:24 2014 No.5890373 >>5889838 She worships Demeter and Dionysus, mainly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 16:03:29 2014 No.5890399 >>5890373 Then Get drunk with her and don't debate shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 16:47:03 2014 No.5890579 File: 34 KB, 620x349, farage-laughing-1[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >needing to do research to debunk a religion >needing a book to say why a fantastic claim is without evidence

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 16:50:19 2014 No.5890592 >>5890399 She mainly gets drunk during worship (of Dionysus), though.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 16:55:13 2014 No.5890609

>>5890579
>wanting to debunk a religion based around getting drunk and having fun.

>>5890592
So worship Dionysus with her. Dispite what you might think, girls don't like it when people argue with them. That's not what they mean when they say "Girls like assholes"

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 17:12:42 2014 No.5890671

>>5890609
>So worship Dionysus with her. Dispite what you might think, girls don't like it when people argue with them. That's not what they mean when they say "Girls like assholes"
It's a less awkward approach than randomly asking to worship Dionysus with her, when she knows I'm an atheist.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 17:27:04 2014 No.5890743

>>5886686
F-E-D-O-R-A.

IT'S A MAYMAY.

ONE OF THE MOST WELL KNOWN AND UNDERSTOOD.

I'M SO TIRED OF THE AUTISM! KILL THE AUTISTS ALREADY! I HATE EXPLAINING SOCIAL REFERRENCES, IDIOMS, SARCASM, AND MORE TO YOU TURDS! GO BUILD SOMETHING YOU GODDAMN TWIT! I'M MAD!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 17:33:55 2014 No.5890765 >>5890671 You can be an atheist and still curious about other people's religions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 17:57:54 2014 No.5890849 >>5890765 Yeah, but she knows I dislike religion immensely.

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 18:19:41 2014 No.5890910

>>5890849
Girls also like the idea that they can change a guy. if she thinks she can get you to open up and explore new ideas, that's a turn on.

Consider that your hatred for religion is actually just a hatred for Christianity, and give it a shot, you might have fun.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 18:25:20 2014 No.5890926 >>5890910 I probably would, seeing as how she worships Dionysus in the nude.... I'll give it a shot, I really don't expect her to buy my interest, but I don't think she'd be a jackass and just reject curiosity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 22:26:05 2014 No.5892001 Don't have anything to do with her. She's a dingbat idiot, and she will not end up well.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 22:29:07 2014 No.5892014 >>5892001 yeah, dionysus should be worshipped wearing a deerskin, not nude

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 22:35:54 2014 No.5892053 >>5890910 sometimes i think about joining a cult so i can get laid.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 22:58:29 2014 No.5892131 How the fuck can anyone even claim to worship Dionysus and Demeter if the Eleusinian mysteries, literally their most sacred festival, are lost to us? Isn't this like claiming you can worship Jesus Christ without knowing what's in the gospels?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 23:08:52 2014 No.5892157 >>5892131 I don't know, I'll ask her if you want.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 23:16:22 2014 No.5892179 >>5892157 ask her while playing with her nipples. and then post when you do so we can all jerk off together

Anonymous Sun Dec 21 23:27:10 2014 No.5892216

>>5892131

because mysteries weren't the only way to worship him
all you should do it's to drink and to dance wearing an ivy wreath and holding a thyrsus (a stick braided with ivy, possibly with a corn on the top), also you can cry evoe evoe

not only women btw, men can too like cadmus and tiresias did

read euripides' 'bacchae'

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 21 23:28:10 2014 No.5892223 >>5892216 >cone not corn

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 00:53:15 2014 No.5892475 File: 181 KB, 1476x698, conefather.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5892223

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/lit/ - Literature