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/lit/ - Literature

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5861945 No.5861945 [Reply] [Original]

Explain the meaning of "rebel".

I can understand why Sade or Baudelaire would fit into this term since they were certainily against their society in many aspects.
Now again, it seems that a vaguely similar kind of behaviour is called a rebel, even if the main characteristics are not a matter of criticism or dissaproval.

Let me expalin: Consider for example a promiscuous behaviour, which centuries ago would had been a matter of censure; now the moral position relative to it is neutral or in the case of the younger generations, of approval and praise. The opposite behaviour now is matter of laugh, consider for example a religious girl who want to stay virgin until marriage or similar behaviours that could be considered outdated.

Could we speak of a Nietzschean inversion of values?
It wouldn't be exactly a complete inversion, since the concept of rebel still applies to its original traits, which seems quite interesting, because it would seem that a rebel now would be object of praise to the contrary of the ones to whom orginally applied.

What are the psychological foundations of the concept of rebel?, why what's "forbidden" has some kind of attraction to younger generations? (is it only a matter of idenitity of the subject?)

And doesn't seem odd the object of "rebel"?, the kind of behaviour to which apply is now pretty much mainstream, nevertheless, the subjects engage in it for the attractive it has to certain people (see former question) which means that is possible to enjoy the "psychological satisfaction" of being a rebel while still avoiding the isolation which used to be immediate consequence of it.

>> No.5861979

momsen is a pretty good singer.

>> No.5862094

>>5861979
She doesn't sing, she just speaks following the rythm.

>> No.5862099

>>5862094
i guess she's a better rapper than any of the ones i've heard

>> No.5862531
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5862531

Stereotypical rebellious posturing has become commodified and mainstream. Being an actual rebel these days would be to engage in counter-rebellion. So reactionarism. 4chan has always been the avant garde of edginess, and it shows in people adopting hyper-conservative attitudes and going as far as to venture into ideas like orthodox religion and monarchism and strict sexual mores, such as on /pol/ and /r9k/.

But ultimately a rebel is simply one who is at odds with the status quo. The content of this being at odds matters little.

>> No.5862536

>>5862531
lol his wig looks like a dick

>> No.5862540

>>5861979
too bad she has herpes

>> No.5862542

>>5862531
More or less true, though you'll notice that those who have adopted the dominant values of this era still somehow see themselves as rebels and likewise view those who are truly at odds with the status quo, hyper-conservatives, as still being 'the man'.

>> No.5862565

>>5862542
There is an entrenched "the man" that the original rebels act against. the neo reactionaries are revolting against both that and the rebels who have gained some power themselves. It's less a 1 on 1 and more a completely disorganized clusterfuck.

>> No.5862595

>>5861945
This.

>> No.5862604
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5862604

>>5862542
>More or less true, though you'll notice that those who have adopted the dominant values of this era still somehow see themselves as rebels
They sort of have to for it to work. There is a distinct time frame for this though, which is interesting. Once your preferred lifestyle starts to get blatantly sold to you, you can't act special any more without people catching on. When the cognitive dissonance gets too much you have to hop to another trend that is in the process of being commodified but hasn't yet reached critical capitalist integration.

The moment in which you jump ship is simply defined by where you feel comfortable on the innovation-conformity spectrum.

>> No.5862606

>>5862542
>>5862542
>More or less true, though you'll notice that those who have adopted the dominant values of this era still somehow see themselves as rebels
Pretty much what I tried to said, more or less clear in my post (OP).

This is something I found interesting, particularly because of what I said at the end: being a rebel is attractive to young people probably because at that age they look for an identity and ways to identify themselves from the masses.

Now people can be "rebels", and still have a lot of people supporting them, which goes against the very concept of rebel.

>> No.5862609

>>5862540
okay.

>> No.5862622

>>5862606
It's hard to adopt an attitude that stays rebellious for long nowadays since the internet has accelerated the establishment and decline of trends.

You used to have years for the masses to catch on to something, perhaps even decades in more conservative eras. Now sometimes you only have days.

>> No.5862648

>>5862606
In youth you might expect it however, I think there are as many adults who consider themselves to be rebels; they might be more inclined to call what they're doing 'revolution', however overblown that is.

>>5862604
True but I'm noticing a cognitive deferment of this realization currently.

>> No.5862652

>>5862648
, however*

>> No.5862684

>>5862622
>It's hard to adopt an attitude that stays rebellious for long nowadays since the internet has accelerated the establishment and decline of trends.
But the principles underlying the current and common concept of rebel are fairly old dating from the mid-eighties.
The raise of the internet didn't seem to change the concept of rebel which stayed the same. Looks like it worked in the opposite way, making a trend that would have disappeared in the nineties long-lasting because always encounters people who never head of it.

>>5862648
>they might be more inclined to call what they're doing 'revolution', however overblown that is.
Being a rebel for old people is usually a political matter.

>> No.5862707

Remember when /lit/ talked about literature instead of armchair philosophy?

>> No.5862709

>>5862707
No?

>> No.5862735

>>5862707
I don't

>> No.5862763

>>5862707
????

>> No.5862772

>>5862707
nigga what

>> No.5862793

>>5862707
>implying anyone here has been here long enough to know that

>> No.5862809

>implying Tay Mom isn't virtuous as fuck when she wants to be

>> No.5862850

>me reading this thread

holy shit you're a bunch of pseudo-intellectual pretentious faggots

>> No.5863778

>>5862850
Yeah. Let's go back to the bookshelves threads!

>> No.5863792

>>5861945
Being a liberal rebel like the ones in the mainstream has nothing to do with rebelion, it is just conforming with the already accepted values.

Today being a rebel would mean to be a virgin Catholic who opposes abortion and wants a monarchy. That is rebelious because none of those is accepted by the mainstream.
Being a rebel now is the exact opposite of what it was 150 years ago.

>> No.5863844

We live in a nihilistic zeitgeist.
Only through virtue can we rebel against and defeat it.

>> No.5863897

>>5862707
kek

>> No.5865507

>>5863844
>nihilistic zeitgeist.
what

>> No.5865767

>>5862531
>venture into ideas like orthodox religion and monarchism and strict sexual mores, such as on /pol/ and /r9k/.

They are a very small minority that have mostly scattered to other message boards. Most of /pol/ always consisted of a synthesis of National Socialism/Racial Identity Politics and Libertarianism

>> No.5865971

>>5865767
How do you create a synthesis of NatSoc and Libertarianism? One is for the welfare state and against degeneracy, the other is for abolishment of the welfare state and the facilitating of degeneracy.

>> No.5865985

>>5865971
They don't synthesize very well, they stand on opposite ends of the room in their mutually exclusive circle jerks. They do enjoy bitching about neoliberal policies though. Libertarians because they see it as government oppression. The NatSocs because it is in a direction opposite of what they would prefer.

>> No.5866097

>>5863897

Kek