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/lit/ - Literature

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5861695

Anonymous Sun Dec 14 18:36:08 2014 No.5861695 [Reply] [Original]

You people give Marcus Aurelius too much credit. He didn't add anything to Stoic philosophy, the Meditations is just a bunch of non-rigorous aphorisms.
>But he was an Emperor so he was clearly based
I bet you complain about privilege all the time, but when you talk about Roman Emperors you suddenly become reverent and stop caring about the evils of imperialism. /lit/ is hypocritical as fuck about this.
>What's wring with him just summarizing it?
Nothing in particular, the problem is that you idiots suggest him before anyone mentions Epictetus or Seneca and implies that he contributed something to philosophy. 'Everyone should read it at least once!' OK, well, they should also read the Enchiridion, and they should read it first.
You people are idiots. Yes, i'm projecting.
>inb4 some aesthete or an imperialism advocate defends it because it's based or well-written or because Aurelius was a great emperor
Augustus was better. So wnh Julius Caesar and so was Constantine.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 19:39:44 2014 No.5861975 File: 14 KB, 224x225, IMG_33989001954402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 20:10:55 2014 No.5862151 >>5861975 Go spook yourself

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 20:36:30 2014 No.5862247 File: 53 KB, 500x442, 1415017243324.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5862151

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 20:46:17 2014 No.5862289 It's popular, therefore it's widely known and widely available, and most people looking for something akin to it aren't likely to be too well-versed in that line of literature, so it's the obvious suggestion. Also, it's really, really simple.

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Anonymous Sun Dec 14 20:54:50 2014 No.5862317

>>5862289
>widely available
It's an ancient work available for free on the internet and in the public domain, just like the Enchiridion. The Enchiridion is a collection of Stoic philosophical precepts, The Discourses of Epictetus is a collection of philosophical teachings from an Stoic, and the Meditations is a personal self-help book containing series of notes and aphorisms a man wrote to himself.

If you're interested in reading a cool self-help book by a Roman emperor, that's cool and you should read the Meditations first. If you're interested in some basic Stoic philosophy, read the Enchiridion. If you're interested in more Stoic philosophy, read the Discourses. OP's right, there's not really any serious reason why people recommend the Meditations as some kind of "intro" beyond the fact that it was written by an Emperor. It's just a collection of aphorisms and notes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 20:57:32 2014 No.5862326 >>5862317 See my second point >it's really, really simple. This, I claim, is why. But OP and you're right, I would never argue that; there are no good reasons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 21:01:34 2014 No.5862342 File: 55 KB, 625x626, c70.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is a troll thread. OP posted the same thing the other week, with the exact same opening sentence. Stop responding, let it die, go back to your lives.

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Anonymous Sun Dec 14 21:23:52 2014 No.5862390

>>5862342
I only see two posts in the archive, besides this one the other is from November 30th and just says "You guys give Marcus Aurelius too much credit. I'm not seeing how it's a troll thread when he's bringing up a good point, people take Marcus Aurelius' Meditations to be some kind of serious "must-read" work and recommend it as such.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 14 22:39:26 2014 No.5862613 >>5861695 This.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 08:47:23 2014 No.5864145 >>5862390 Maybe because he is a into stoicism A good overall of its subjects and so on

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Anonymous Mon Dec 15 08:52:49 2014 No.5864155

>>5864145
OP here, I already made the point that this isn't noteworthy and the foundational works aren't difficult to grasp and are therefore a better starting point, since they won't be mediated by a guy who wasn't even actually a philosopher.
Yes, you can 'actually' be a philosopher, philosophy doesn't consist of asking your boyfriend whether or not we can know the sky is blue. It's a rigorous discipline, and Aurelius is only associated with it because of emperor-worship by both his countrymen after his death and plebs on the Internet now,and his supposed 'basedness.'

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 08:53:53 2014 No.5864157 >>5861695 Seneca is a joy to read, nice post, OP.

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Anonymous Mon Dec 15 09:09:44 2014 No.5864197
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>>5864155
Wow you sure are mad.
How are you so sure he wasn't "disciplined" he was being attacked on all sides by the Germans, kept his philosophy unlike most who would have taken to complaining and crying, and still found time to write his book, he was modest, and still won.
What evidence do you have that he wasn't what you described and a true philosopher
Plato's dream of a philosopher king actually happened and this guy is it
Literally think about it a ruler who used philosophy instead of this thinking he knew everything and was taller than all men took the time to study philosophy and put it into use
A king has no use for philosophy, they can do whatever they want (think about how that power can go to ones head) but he didn't
And of you don't think he is based for that you are stupid and a pleb

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Anonymous Mon Dec 15 09:42:30 2014 No.5864274

>>5864197
Every emperor worth remembering 'used philosophy,' political philosophy is a thing politicians necessarily have to learn if they want to be good politicians. Meditations is a diary. I'm mad because I disagree with you. He admits in the Meditations that he isn't a true philosopher. Military discipline and philosophical disciple are different things. Stoicism isn't the same as Platonism. Only plebs think in terms of basedness when talking about emperors, or calls emperors kings.

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Anonymous Mon Dec 15 09:51:04 2014 No.5864298

>>5861695
Constatine was terrible emperor that ruined construction created by Diocletian and returned to the authoritarian quasi-dynastic system that troubled empire for so long (and troubled it till the fall of Constantinopolis).

But i agree that Aurelius is overrated.
The only way empire could remain stable was meritocracy, with next emperor being a talented general/administrator outside of precedent emperors family.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 09:54:06 2014 No.5864308 >this thread again smh

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 12:18:24 2014 No.5864757 OP is based

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 12:20:53 2014 No.5864766 File: 163 KB, 1440x900, Marcus Aurelius Best Quote.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] My personal favorite line from the Meditations

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 14:36:04 2014 No.5865156 U jellymad, faggots? >>5864757 >>5864298 >>5864274 >>5864157 >>5862613 >>5864155 >>5862317

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Anonymous Mon Dec 15 14:45:54 2014 No.5865184

>>5862289
The conversation should have ended here, everything else is just pedantic venting.

And honestly, Aurelius isn't venerated on /lit/ in any notable fashion, so if this was meant to be a criticism of the board's culture, it's just a projection of complaint with how academia has handled him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 15:06:00 2014 No.5865260 >>5865184 If he isn't venerated here, then why is he suggested prior to Epictetus in pretty much every Stoicism thread (of which there are many)? I doubt 'academia' cares much for him. This was particularly a critique of /lit/ culture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 15 20:00:15 2014 No.5866504 Diogenes' dog is trying