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/lit/ - Literature

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5840375 No.5840375 [Reply] [Original]

Is Nietzsche right about Christianity being bad, or is it actually good?

>> No.5840386

/lit/'s consensus is in favor of Hellenism, therefore Julian did nothing wrong

>> No.5840544

>>5840375
Christianity is better if you can block the rational part of the your brain that says that a 1000 year old book saying there is a sky daddy that loves you unconditionally is unreasonable. Nietzsche is right if you're disillusioned. There is also a sense of a community with religion where people who don't like you have to deal with you so that could be helpful.

>> No.5840554

Continental philosophy doesn't (seriously) deal with the existence of God.
How could such an argument even be construed

>Christian beliefs are, I think, similar to those of slaves in some aspects
>(don't even know what this premise would be)
>Ergo God doesn't exist

>> No.5840559

>>5840544
Sounds like you don't understand Christianity or Nietzsche

>> No.5840566

>>5840554
>>5840559

>> No.5840572

>>5840375
>1000 year old book saying there is a sky daddy that loves you unconditionally is unreasonable.

If the book was 2 years old would it be more believable? And Christians don't believe in a sky daddy, they believe in God which one can make pretty good arguments for. Although it is difficult to argue for a God that is personally concerned with humans and reason cannot, in my opinion, prove it or argue for this.

>> No.5840578
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5840578

Christianity is neither bad nor good; it just is

t. pro philosopher

>> No.5840581

I think Nietzsche's view of Christianity is slightly more nuanced than "it's bad".

>> No.5840602

>>5840581
nuance is a bullshit concept for gayboys. i don't believe in it

>> No.5840712

Christianity sidetracked western culture for roughly a thousand years or so.

>> No.5840724

>>5840544
>sky daddy

someone didn't read the bible

>> No.5840727

I am looking forward to an intelligent, productive thread

>> No.5840741
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5840741

>>5840727
Nigga you on /lit/. Might as well suck a dick.

>> No.5840744

>>5840724
yeah, there's a sky son and a sky-spirity-thing too!

but we're totally not polytheists, guys

>> No.5840761

What would Nietzsche think of American rapper Talib Kweli's 2002 song "Get By" ?

>> No.5841002

Bullshit! Christianity held Europe together after the fall of the Roman Empire.

>> No.5841020

>>5840724
Someone doesn't know what Sky-daddy refers to

>> No.5841028

>>5841002
>Implying Yhwh kept the Earthquakes down just for them.
Bullshit, the churches held their gold together and put the people to serfdom

>> No.5841033

christianity = bad

source: i read a lot of nietzsche and i understand more than any of you will ever will

>> No.5841161

Nietzsche can't see the forest for the trees, being that Christianity is so bad, it's good.

>> No.5841271
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5841271

Wrong move newfag. When we wish to talk about Nietzsche's philosophy here, we use the code name Max Stirner. That way we can talk about radical individualism without letting newbies to philosophy feel included or wanted.

>> No.5841292

>>5840544
We're all aware of the cliche arguments against Christianity and many of us are atheists. Reiterating this shit only serves to reveal your redditor status.

>> No.5841327
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5841327

>>5840544
>what I saw in all those paintings MUST be what God really looks like! This is just silly!

Why do people make trite, useless comments like this? I don't even believe in a god and every time I see this I cringe.

>> No.5841363

>>5840375
From what I understood, Nietsche believed that Christianity was just glorifying inability in an effort to make people feel better about themselves (ex. glorify chastity because pople couldn't have the women or men they wanted). I believe, however, that NIetzsche was misguided in his view of happiness. He was not exactly rich or charismatic, and believed that these would bring him happiness. I've noticed that good Christians (ie. loving, accepting people) are generally happier people than let's say the Forbes 400. They often seem empty and discontent to me. The 7 deadly sins are not just pathetic attempts to cover up basal needs. They are consuming false promises of happiness.

>> No.5841371

>>5840602
seconding this.

>> No.5841398

>>5841292
>>5841327
Don't you know! If you read Dawkins you are officially an expert on religion and can make hamfisted statements about it to really give it to those fundies

>> No.5841415

>>5840554
Didnt read Heidegger's Beitrages zur philosophy. Or Levinas... Or Jean-Luc Marion...

>> No.5841431

>>5841415
>levinas
>Marion
O i am lauffin

>> No.5841478

>>5840375
On some aspects his critique of Christianity is only superficial, that is, it (rightly) addresses issues in his contemporary pantomime of Christianity. This is the case for his condemnation of Christianity as the truest incubator and vessel of slavish morality, which only holds for varieties of particularly post-Reformation denominations and trends (e.g. Puritanism) that he was in contact with. I don't think it accurately reflects original, primitive or Early Christianity-- but I don't think Nietzsche meant it too, either.

Much more powerful, though, is his assault on Christianity as being "life-denying" in some important sense.

>> No.5841480

There's 3 parts to Bible.

The old testament which is a mixture of many different mythology, a ton of retarded laws for the jews (what foods you can eat, how many sheckels you have to pay someone for raping their daughter, what colors your robe has to be, I'm not making any of this up). There's also an underling narration that the jews are the only people that God cares about and everyone else is basically dog-shit. In other words its really outdated, not even jews can make use of it. The creation myth is stolen from other religions and as far as archeology is concerned there's zero evidence that the whole exodus thing ever happened.

Than there's Jesus himself who is basically socialism and egalitarianism incarnate. His famous sermon on the mount literally supports the idea that if you look at a women the wrong way its the same as raping her. His entire philosophy is love and tolerance hippy crap. When he says 'the kingdom of God is inside you' he literally means that: Heaven is s state of mind. Jesus was without ressentment because he beleived the only real meaning come from inward (inner light, heaven is inside us all, all that crap). Thats why he didn't give a shit about dying the on the cross, it wasn't to forgive your sin. There's no real evidense he ever existed, there wouldn't be: he preached in the most illiterate part of Rome so no one kept records.

Than we have the apostles, modern Biblical scholars suggest there was only 1 or 2 real apostles and the rest were invented. The apostles were spitful angry jews who took Jesus's philosophy and completed inverted it. We go from eternal and unconditional love and acceptance to a huge revenge fantasy where Jesus has is his own father and this father will come to earth and destroy the planet than send everyone except 144,000 jews into hell forever for the crime of sin. Absolutely everything including the sexual desires necessary to keep our species alive is a sin so you are all fucked.

The old testament is an out of date book about jews praying for bread in a dessert. Jesus might have been cool if his entire identity wasn't corrupted. If you want a hippy fag idealogy look in Buddihism. Jesus had no education so his out look into life is like a fucking child, Buddah was educated as a damn prince and actually goes into details and many more issues.

>> No.5841512

>>5841480
Holy shit, there is so much wrong with this post--inb4 Christfag, I'm not religious at all.

> His famous sermon on the mount literally supports the idea that if you look at a women the wrong way its the same as raping her.

TIL Adultery = Rape. Misquotes are even more reprehensible when they pervert entirely the meaning intended.

> His entire philosophy is love and tolerance hippy crap

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Jesus was not some addled "hippy", and his message had much more substance to it than simply feel-good Tolstoyan bullshit. Any honest perusal through the Gospels will tell you as much.

> When he says 'the kingdom of God is inside you' he literally means that: Heaven is s state of mind

Classic mistranslation, the Greek means something more akin to "in your midst" or "among you". Stop peddling old, outdated mistranslations, and consult proper Biblical scholarship before spouting nonsense.

> Than we have the apostles, modern Biblical scholars suggest there was only 1 or 2 real apostles and the rest were invented.

Which scholars? Certainly none in this half-century, and none of repute.

> The apostles were spitful angry jews who took Jesus's philosophy and completed inverted it

A fucking untenable position: if we believe that the New Testament is a product of the apostles and their circle of churches, and all of your knowledge of what Jesus' "philosophy" is stems from the NT, how can you fucking even suggest that what Jesus' "truly" meant is at odds with the presentation of him by the apostles?

>> No.5841520

>>5840554
The OP isn't about the existence of God, but about whether Christianity is good or bad. Way to shitpost off topic.

>> No.5841547

His parents were Lutheran. I think that explains a good deal.

>> No.5841570

Christianity, like communism, is great in theory, but misused in practice.

Solution? Read the bible, understand the teachings of Jesus, and be a gentle soul amidst the forces of sinfulness and evil.
Do not hate, do not be greedy, do not be selfish.


Read about Pope Benedict. He is one of the first popes in a long time that isn't a right wing nut job using religion as a preface for hate.

>> No.5841593

>>5841570
>Christianity, like communism, is great in theory, but misused in practice.
>Solution? Read Das Kapital, understand the teachings of Marx, and be a fearless soldier amidst the forces of evil capitalist bourgeoisie.
>Do not hate, do not be greedy, do not be selfish.
>Read about Rosa Luxemburg. She is isn't a right wing nut job using socialism as a preface for hate.

>> No.5841717

>>5841363
>He was not exactly rich or charismatic, and believed that these would bring him happiness.
dude no

just no

nietzsche didn't even care for happiness

>> No.5841806

>>5841717
That's not true, he certainly did. He just believed that the greatest joys were to be found in the use of power and creation of great art.

He embraced misfortune as a way to become stronger and experience the emotions needed to make great pieces of art. Also, he saw misfortune for the downtrodden as necessary to allow the powerful men like Napoleon or Hitler to accomplish their goals. In other words, he believed the misfortune of millions was worth it so that le ebin tragic hero could live on just like his Greek animes.

That's why he despised Christianity. He viewed Christ's compassionate morality and works of love as a deception used to fool the upper classes into treating the "slave" classes better, and eventually cause a shift of power. Same things with the ascetic natures of both Buddha and Jesus, he viewed them as the ways of weak-willed men, denying their will to power in order to feel contentment and prevent suffering.

In other words, he saw Jesus and Buddha as life-denying because they worshiped death by dying a small death everyday- denying sexuality, greed, etc. "He who seeks to lose his life will gain it.." and so on. They were more focused on preventing pain than enjoying life.

>> No.5841836

>>5840375
I think that there's the possibility of equivocation in your question. Most "Christianity" is suffocating, patriarchal, monstrous stuff - but it can be so horrible because it has been built upon an infinite message. If God is dead, as he was in Nietzsche's time (and as he is in ours), it is not because Jesus's words no longer apply, but because the truth in them has been forgotten. Kierkegaard said it best:

“The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly.”

>> No.5843259

>>5841480
>The old testament which is a mixture of many different mythology, a ton of retarded laws for the jews (what foods you can eat, how many sheckels you have to pay someone for raping their daughter, what colors your robe has to be, I'm not making any of this up). There's also an underling narration that the jews are the only people that God cares about and everyone else is basically dog-shit. In other words its really outdated, not even jews can make use of it. The creation myth is stolen from other religions and as far as archeology is concerned there's zero evidence that the whole exodus thing ever happened.

You know the old testament is supposed to be read allegorically right? Jesus you're retarded.

>> No.5843271

>>5843259
Tell that to the jews.

>> No.5844504

>>5840544
*TIPS FEDORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*

>> No.5845180

>>5844504
*TTTTTIIIIIIPPPPPSSSSS FORRRRESKIIIIINNNNN*

/sarcasm