oh the irony

[Anonymous No.5816578]

after all these years, /lit/, I still don't understand what the hell "irony" is.

Well? What is it?

[Anonymous No.5816582]

what's the word for a funny coincidence that people say is ironic but isn't.

[Anonymous No.5816583]

begone, troll

[Anonymous No.5816588]

>>5816582
is the "that people say is ironic but isn't" part supposed to be contained in your word too?

[Anonymous No.5816591]

Its like rain :^)

[Anonymous No.5816601]

>>5816582
synchronicity

[Anonymous No.5816604]

Two common definitions:
Something which was reasonably expected is not fulfilled, with wry humorous results.
Something which suggests a dual audience with two different and contradictory interpretations of the same events, and therefore two different responses.

[Anonymous No.5816608]

>>5816582
funny coincidence

[Anonymous No.5816636]

Why is it that when certain thinkers talk about irony they make it sound so much deeper and complex than this
>>5816604

[Anonymous No.5816645]

>>5816636
People who want to be thought of as thinkers will do their best to make whatever they're talking about sound so deep and complex, unless they're dismissing it.

But anything even remotely related to cognition or language is easy to present as complex because as far as we understand those subjects, it is.

[Anonymous No.5816649]

>>5816608
what if it's more tragic (tragicomic? that's another word that's abused a lot) like a teacher getting run over by a school bus.

[Anonymous No.5816651]

I hope your post is ironic OP

[Anonymous No.5816652]

>>5816636
Anything is simple if you check the dictionary definition. That's why wikipedia is a thing.
Also the second definition doesn't sound correct, as irony is in fact saying one thing while meaning the opposite (even though there's a rhetorical figure which fits this description better than irony), but the "true" meaning is meant to be apparent even though it may not be depending on the recipient of the message.

[Anonymous No.5816661]

>>5816636
I don't know, most of the people I have read on the subject use the second definition because they are writing in relation to theatrical irony which was explained pretty much the same way by the Greeks.

Perhaps since then there has been layers of complexity added, but theatre is generally designed to be understood and sell to the masses, so too much complexity of irony would lose them. I mean, ironic misunderstanding is usually the cause of conflict when no conflict need happen, so it does explain a lot of human interaction - not realising there could be the same dual interpretation of something even if you didn't intend it to be ironic would be something of an oversight in playwrights who dealt with ironic set ups - people's differing vantage points are always making things more complex than they need be. This whole response is probably more complex than it need be, which I did not intend, but there it is

[Anonymous No.5816662]

>>5816652
is ironic the opposite of sincere?

[Anonymous No.5816664]

>>5816652
>(even though there's a rhetorical figure which fits this description better than irony)
I take that back, it's wrong, I was thinking of litotes but it's another thing.

[Anonymous No.5816680]

>>5816662
Not really, but you see the two parroted ad nauesam around here because many post modern works made wide use of irony to mock common topoi in art. i.e. they would make a mystery novel with the intent to criticize mystery novels. This became overused and people like DFW got bored and said we needed "a new sincerity", meaning not simply writing to mock and criticize but to make a point.

[Anonymous No.5816684]

>>5816680
>down with antidisestablishmentarians

[Anonymous No.5816709]

>>5816578
>I still don't understand what the hell "irony" is.

Hate to break it to you anon, but you might have assburgers if you don't know what irony is.

[Anonymous No.5816711]

Disjunction between certain indices

[Anonymous No.5816749]

>>5816709


>If in trying to cure your autism by studying it you made yourself more autistic, would that be ironic?

>if an investment that was supposed to get you out of debt puts you further in, is that ironic?

> if you battle with monsters to destroy them and become a monster from it, is that ironic?

>if you try to seem edgy by using greentext examples and instead it makes you look like a newfag, is that ironic?

[Anonymous No.5816755]

>>5816749
yes
yes
yes
no

[Anonymous No.5816759]

>>5816749
No but seriously, the inability to understand irony, metaphors, and other semanticisms, is a symptom of autism.

I'm not joking. But you seem mad, I get it. Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.5816765]

>>5816661
>This whole response is probably
O, how ______!

[Anonymous No.5816783]

>>5816759
OP here. That wasn't me who responded with the greentext.

Anyway, I have a very good understanding of metaphors, and am quite adept at making use of them. I just genuinely don't understand the variety of ways I see the word "irony" used.

pic related. a world class director who also claims to not know what irony is

[Anonymous No.5816804]

http://typesofirony.com/the-3-types-of-irony/

there you go

[Anonymous No.5816806]

>>5816578

irony = contradiction or hypocrasy

[Anonymous No.5816820]

>>5816783
>I just genuinely don't understand the variety of ways I see the word "irony" used.

Clearly that's because people alot of times mistake irony for something else, as explained earlier in the thread by other people. An example would be the typical sentence starting with "Ironically...", followed by a rendition of some story that isn't ironic at all.

But if you're a normal person, of some intellectual fortitude, you can't be serious that you don't know what it is, as a literary and semantic phenomenon?

[Anonymous No.5816831]

>>5816806

inconsistency would probably be a better word to describe it.

An example would be "the irony of that guy telling me to smoke when he smokes"

[Anonymous No.5816843]

>>5816831
American detected.

Irony does not mean hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.5816854]

>>5816806
>>5816831
The best way to describe, I think personally, is that irony is the difference, or contradiction in what you perceive to be the reality of a statement, or a sentence, and what is semantically factual about it, and this difference has to produce some humorous effect.

[Anonymous No.5816860]

>>5816820
It's weird, to tell the truth, but somehow I feel like I'm still missing some piece of the puzzle in understanding what irony is.

[Anonymous No.5816868]

>>5816860
see
>>5816854

[Anonymous No.5816873]

>>5816860
Ok, for example: I was reading a JFK bio a couple months ago where the author claimed that JFK had an ironic view of life, and that this view could be summed up in the expression "c'est la vie". What does irony mean in this context?

[Anonymous No.5816882]

it could mean hypocrisy given the context of the sentence in which you use it

[Anonymous No.5816887]

contradictions/ juxtapositions that in the act of contradicting, juxtaposing, reveal something, either to an audience or a universal truth

[Anonymous No.5816891]

>>5816783
>I just genuinely don't understand the variety of ways I see the word "irony" used.
its misused a lot

[Anonymous No.5816898]

>>5816891
>it's misused a lot
i-ironically enough?

[Anonymous No.5816920]

>>5816873
>the author claimed that JFK had an ironic view of life

Well the author can be wrong. I don't see the irony in his claim.

[Anonymous No.5816926]

Little Caprice is best girl

[Anonymous No.5816937]

An example DFW gives is a car salesman on TV playing the stereotype of a car salesman (talking quickly, being an overall sleazebag) who is then revealed as an untrustworthy character by another guy who mocks the car salesman, even though the advert is still about selling cars

The irony here is that they're mocking people who sell cars in a clever but insincere way by being clever and insincere (I think)

[Anonymous No.5816940]

>>5816860
Dude, suppose you're with your friends and you try to make a funny by poking fun at yourself (americans need not apply), so you take a flaw of yours that is obvious, e.g. let's say that you're not attractive and you're telling a story about a woman who rejected you. Then you might say something like that you have no idea what woman would pass on such a hot guy like yourself. That's irony.

[Anonymous No.5816942]

>>5816898
Ironically, no

[Anonymous No.5816944]

>>5816920
Well I've heard the expression "ironic view of life" used in a lot of other contexts, and I'm embarrassed to admit I don't quite understand what that means. Well? What does it mean?

[Anonymous No.5816947]

>>5816898
eh... I guess.

[Anonymous No.5816951]

>>5816940
Isn't that sarcasm?

[Anonymous No.5816955]

>>5816951
Sarcasm is a form of irony though, just a cheap one.

[Anonymous No.5816960]

>>5816955
how is it 'cheaper'

[Anonymous No.5816963]

>>5816951
Can be, but sarcasm is often more sassy and mean. It's normally used to attack others, but not always.
>>5816944
It means nothing if they don't explain what their view of life is.

[Anonymous No.5816981]

>>5816963
>It means nothing if they don't explain what their view of life is.
Are you really telling me that this quite commonly used expression (in literature and academics) is meaningless? When a reputable author uses an expression like that, it's hard for me just to dismiss it offhand like that.

Boy, this irony stuff.

[Anonymous No.5816995]

>>5816960
It usually involves attacking someone's person. Which is what I mean by cheap.

>Hey, Anon, I just got an A on my test!
>You got an A? Yeeeeeeeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.*sarcasm*

[Anonymous No.5817006]

>>5816981
"Ironic view of life" usually means a detached or cynical view. Either or both of those are usually needed to consciously use irony so they are often conflated.

[Anonymous No.5817015]

>>5817006
I see. So cynics tend to make very liberal use of irony, as do people with a detached view of things?

Is irony, in a manner of speaking, a form of detachment from things?

[Anonymous No.5817025]

>>5816578
You must be ironic

[Anonymous No.5817042]

>>5816578
I know that video, now I have urge to fap, fuck you OP.

[Anonymous No.5817051]

Sort of unrelated but I sometimes see composers' music described as full of irony. How do you perceive musical irony? Just unexpected turns or cadences?

[Anonymous No.5817056]

>>5816942
>>5816947
>getting the joke

[Anonymous No.5817057]

>>5817042
I've never seen it actually, nor do I know who that is, but she does look like a qt. Just thought it was a funny picture.

>>5817051
YOU SEE. This is what I mean. What does irony mean in these kinds of contexts? It's easy to dismiss these kinds of things offhandedly, but that just seems lazy to me.

[Anonymous No.5817064]

The way I interpret it is basically dividing the three elements that cause confusion:
>Sarcasm
A remark about something with the intention of undermining it's value. Example: A woman parks her car in the lowest floor and asks when she get's into the elevator "Is it going up?", the man inside responds "No, it's going all the way to hell."
>Cynicism
To make an unfitting remark with tones of bitterness, Carlos is a great example: "That cop accidentally shot a pregnant woman", "Now that's a miscarriage of justice."
>Irony
Irony is beyond the control of man as one cannot be ironic, only suffer irony. That's why it's classically attributed to Fortuna or the gods and their whims.Simple example: A man is infuriated with his life choices and shouts "I need a complete change in my life, even if it means to wipe the slate clean and burn the house down with it" just as he is about to proceed on his journey, a gas system failure destroys all his belongings and the fire destroys his house and takes his life, thus fulfilling his statement in a unintended way.

[Anonymous No.5817068]

>>5817015
...that power of accurate observation which is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it…
-- GB Shaw

To say something deliberately ironic (rather than accidentally having what you say described as ironic) you have to have a broad understanding of a subject. But too indepth and you can't think outside the subject, so detachment is important. This will often then be perceived as cynicism, but neither that nor detachment are necessary, just attendant, which is why "ironic view of life" is a near meaningless placeholder for a variety of stances.

As life doesn't have an agreed upon meaning, an ironic view of it is doubly nonsensical. "Life is about eating, breeding and dying", cynical? ironic? or just true.

[Anonymous No.5817086]

>>5817051
Shostakovich is usually accused of this. Did he write shit music because he was shit or just having a shitty day, or did he write well crafted shit to appeal to people who liked shit so he wouldn't be killed.

[Anonymous No.5817088]

>>5817068
Well that JFK biography and another one I read both claimed that he had a very detached view of things, so I guess that is what they meant by irony.

[Anonymous No.5817097]

>>5817051

Btw it's mainly Mahler and Shostakovich I see this with, so it may be because they used Jewish scales that sound sad and happy at the same time? I think I just answered my own question.

[Anonymous No.5817121]

>>5817051
>musical irony
probably means imitating a style of music but exaggerating the ways that define the style until the resulting piece is a little ridiculous sounding.

or yea, unexpected turns can be jarring (and take you out of the moment) and the intentional use of these could be ironic since usually if you laugh at music it's because it's bad, not because it's bad on purpose?

I'm just guessing.

[Anonymous No.5817126]

>>5817042
What's the video?

[Anonymous No.5817128]

is this ironic?

[Anonymous No.5817131]

is this?

[Anonymous No.5817308]

OP here. Just for the record, I'm still pretty confused over all.

[Anonymous No.5817318]

>>5816578
To add to OP's question what about the people like DFW who interpret irony as insincerity? Are they wrong?

[Anonymous No.5817329]

>>5816981
dude how am I gonna understand what they say if they don't specify? "ironic" view of life means nothing if you don't explain what makes it ironic. it's like if i told you that someone has a misguided view of life, that's barely an information, it doesn't add anything to your knowledge of that person if you don't know why it's misguided.

[Anonymous No.5817336]

>>5817318
>>5816680

[Anonymous No.5817345]

Irony is being run over by an ambulance.

[Anonymous No.5817350]

An unexpected, humorous link between to happenings, that creates on the spectators the feeling that they should have expected it.

[Anonymous No.5817374]

Ironic shitposting comes from dramatic irony, correct?

As far as I see it:
One interpretation would be literal while the other takes into consideration the presence of shitposting and attempts to seek alternate meaning.

For example, a passerby might think LOLutkhm2dabar? means that someone is suprised you went out with a man, while a true 4chan-level otaku like myself would understand that the phrase is an insult to the original poster's posting style or character.

[Anonymous No.5817387]

>>5817329
it's misguided because it's ironic

[Anonymous No.5817412]

Whenever someone intends to farts but sharts instead, that's irony.

[Anonymous No.5817420]

>>5817374
>Ironic shitposting comes from dramatic irony, correct?
it's sarcasm

[Anonymous No.5817442]

>>5817420
I don't think it's limited to just that.

I think there is some practically in shitposting to exclude individuals from specific social groups because of the duality of the message.

The meanings eventually get polluted over time and a paradigm shift occurs in which roles can potentally be reversed.

I think "newfag", fitting in, "/board/ is one person, and the /a/ meme "we're all little girls" are perfect examples of originally exclusive shitposting that has come full circle.

Shitposting is an art.

[Anonymous No.5817457]

i dont know the difference between story, plot and narrative.

don't get me wrong, ive read the definitions in the dictionary, but i can't distinguish between the 3

[Anonymous No.5817489]

>>5817457
story = what
plot = what happens
narrative = why what happens

[Anonymous No.5817507]

>>5817442
>I think there is some practically in shitposting to exclude individuals from specific social groups because of the duality of the message.
Perhaps, but then it makes it trolling. This is dramatic irony:
>Dramatic irony, in literature, a plot device in which the audience’s or reader’s knowledge of events or individuals surpasses that of the characters. The words and actions of the characters therefore take on a different meaning for the audience or reader than they have for the play’s characters.
it's a thing between the author and the audience. The audience knows, not because of obscure stuff that has happened before but because they've been told during the play.
If you really want to count it as literature you might say that some shitposting is satire, but it mostly isn't.

[Anonymous No.5817533]

>>5816652
The second definition is what is known as dramatic irony.

[Anonymous No.5817564]

>>5817064

Underrated post

[Anonymous No.5817588]

>>5817489
that's incredibly wrong

[Anonymous No.5817620]

>>5816926
/thread

[Anonymous No.5817640]

>>5817064
Thanks. I think this is the clearest def. Do you have any more actual examples of irony that are more concise?

[Anonymous No.5817644]

>>5817350
I feel like I get it now

[Anonymous No.5817657]

>>5817533
no
>>5817507

[Anonymous No.5817683]

>>5817644
That's the age-old wrong understanding of the word that has become so pervasive.

[Anonymous No.5817697]

>>5817683
Well, can anyone give a SIMPLE definition + example for a chowderhead like me?

[Anonymous No.5817740]

Casually it means to do or say something sarcastically.

In literature, it tends to refer to dramatic irony.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/170979/dramatic-irony

[Anonymous No.5818522]

>>5817350
>humorous link between to happenings
>to
This is too good

[Anonymous No.5819163]

[Anonymous No.5819318]

>>5819163
I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.5819321]

>>5817697
see
>>5817064

[Anonymous No.5819328]

>>5819318
a faggot all those who read this
iron knee

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.5819333]

>>5819163
That hurt my funny-bone's metal plate.

[Anonymous No.5819383]

>>5819163
bones with iron?

[Anonymous No.5819432]

>>5819383
So far, this is the only correct post in this thread.

THAT'S ironic.

[Bucephalus No.5819546]

>>5817057

>not knowing who lil caprice is

my god, it's like you aren't even addicted to porn. step your game up

[Anonymous No.5819571]

>>5817042
Is it that one where she is painting, that ones good

[Anonymous No.5819584]

>>5816995
Sarcasm is not lower than wit though.

>jokes
>power ranking

[Anonymous No.5819606]

Oh the iron

[Muck Bulligan !!ryE2gEjGbpu No.5819642]

>>5816960
i disagree with the "attacking someone's person" thing, because i believe sarcasm is inherently cheap (though i use the word vulgar more often)

sarcasm seeks to serve the role wit does, but fails by not actually adding anything to a conversation. because it is only sensical when it is obvious, it never adds anything to a conversation except the knowledge of the speaker's desire to be sarcastic, i.e. the speaker's desire to be seen as superior to another entity

[Muck Bulligan !!ryE2gEjGbpu No.5819646]

>>5819642
*but fails by not actually adding anything worthwhile to a conversation
>sorry for being illiterate

[Anonymous No.5820636]

>>5819546
thanks

[Anonymous No.5820640]

>>5816582
serendipitous?

[Anonymous No.5820668]

>>5816582
serendipity

[Anonymous No.5820686]

Who's the porn actress in OP's pic? I know she's relatively famous but I can't remember her name for the life of me.

[Anonymous No.5820691]

>>5820686
i think it's brandy taylor, but it's hard to tell because of the weird look on her face

[Anonymous No.5820692]

>>5820686
it was already posted in the thread
>close reading skillz

[Anonymous No.5820705]

>>5816578
'Irony' is that smell and flavor on your hands after you've been touching a lot of metal.

[Anonymous No.5820713]

>>5816578

irony is the distantiation of the real, and his metodology is through sarcastic-insincere humor

[Anonymous No.5820719]

irony is like bronzy and goldy and stuff

[Anonymous No.5821941]

Irony is if you found out that Nancy Reagan was a crackhead all along.

...r-right?

[Anonymous No.5821943]

im permabanned poster anonymous. i first started reading /lit/ when i was about 12. by 14 i got really obsessed with the concept of "irony" and tried to channel it constantly, until my thought process got really bizarre and i would repeat things like "nigger balls" and "i love shitting inside nigger assholes" in my head for hours, and i would get really paranoid, start seeing things in the corners of my eyes etc, basically prodromal schizophrenia. im now on antipsychotics. i always wondered what the kind of "ironic" style of /lit/ humor was all about; i think it's the unconscious leaking in to the conscious, what jungian theory considered to be the cause of schizophrenic and schizotypal syptoms. i would advise all people who "get" /lit/ to be careful because that likely means you have a predisposition to a mental illness. peace.

[Anonymous No.5822088]

Its the opposite of tragedy. When something is meant to happen and it does.

[Anonymous No.5822627]

>>5816995
>this is the best example of sarcasm you can conjure

[Paradise !!vh7XQhHe/pR No.5822655]

>>5821943
lmfao

[Anonymous No.5822993]

>>5816604
so can a coincidence be ironic?

[Anonymous No.5823049]

>>5817412
this made me laugh

[Anonymous No.5824671]

Frankly, as the OP, I am shocked that this thread still fucking exists.