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/lit/ - Literature

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5795675 No.5795675 [Reply] [Original]

The thing I don't get about Catcher in the Rye
is why people think it's good

>protip: it isn't

>> No.5795682
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5795682

Because John Lennon and because it's "edgy"

>> No.5795683

what were your grievances with it?

>> No.5795729

>>5795683
the complete lack of a compelling plot,
the way salinger forces his whiny adult voice through the prism of a coming of age child rather than give me any reason to believe the kid could think or feel this way,

>most of all, the way people think it's good

>> No.5795740

>>5795729
reading books for plot isn't always the way to go, but you're right that there wasn't a ton of action.

however, the idea of holden's ideas representing salinger's is pretty laughable. caulfield's got ptsd or some shit from the death of his brother and friend as well as being neglected as a kid. the reason he's a whiny little cunt is because he's legitimately fucked up.

you're obviously not required to like the book, but holden is nowhere near an author insert.

>> No.5795744

It's cool to hate this book because it's associated with adolescence and /lit/ is for big grownups who read grownup books.

I think Holden was a sweet, but seriously misguided kid, whose problems are important and relevant. He's trying to deal with the death of his younger brother, witnessing a suicide, depression, social anxiety, etc. Kids relate to him because these are universal problems. As an adult I continue to love Catcher because it got me through some tough situations when I was younger - and for that, I'm eternally grateful.

Holden's a good kid and h8ers gon h8.

>> No.5795750

1st half was pretty intense and interesting - where Holden gets away from the dorm and hits the City
2nd half was some boring bullshit with his unlikeable baby sister

prove me wrong

>> No.5795751
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5795751

>>5795729
>reading for the plot
>2014

>> No.5795754
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5795754

>>5795751
Reading for anything else then plot or throughts of author.

>> No.5795757

>>5795751
Plot is the essence of a great book. OBVIOUSLY

>> No.5795773

>>5795757
d-dubs confirms

>> No.5795774

Okay, I see that /lit/ is reading for reading instead of analyzing the book after you've read it.
TCITR is a book that's describing the existentialism, as it was the thing that mid and late 20th century is based on (post moderna and late moderna). Bukovsky, Hemingvay, Nobokov, Alber Kami.. (sorry for bad english, I am from serbia) are just some of the names that pop in my head. The point is that this period is based on basic human needs and how they can derive us from society. Basically, comparing the needs of individual with a system. And not any individual, the individual that is living of the course of norms that are written by by the system that they are living in.
funny thing is that a big load of existentialists liked how SSSR was moderated and was pro-socialistic.
just asking, how old are you guys and what country are you from?
I mean, these things are basic if you want to finish third grade of mid school in serbia.

>> No.5795777

>>5795774
i am curryious, pls continue anon...

>> No.5795781

>>5795777
>finding TCITR
>removing dust from it
give me 10-15 minutes

>> No.5795795

you guys can probably find a better critics out there but this is my view of salingers book.
My teacher thought me to read everything that the writer himself wrote, so from the beginning we can see that the first thing wrote is " for my mother" (the rough translation, my book is on serbian)
>meaning of the first sentence
if we look closely, as we can see in posts before, the book is roughly about adolescence. Therefore, we can see that writer himself expirienced he's "existential crisis" (which is specific for existential movement because that's the moment in witch the main character changes)
>note yourself plebs, the main character in book, movie, or any other form of story is the character that changes. i.e. Gilgamesh
Okay.. let's move on. First chapter in the next post

>> No.5795817

> in medias res
> (what will the book be about in first sentence for plebs)
let's see what is says:
If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is
where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were
occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I
don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff
bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece
if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touchy about anything like
that, especially my father.

okay, basically we can see that writer is speaking from he's own perspective. It means that naration comes from the first person. this is used so that it looks like he's talking directly to you. Okay, now note that thy letter "Y" in "you" is not capitalized. That means that he's not (english word that I don't know) (serbian : Ne persira vam)

>> No.5795820
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5795820

Oh look, another "guy who hates Catcher in the Rye" thread.

Listen, you people seriously grow on trees. Look it up, fag. Then admit that you will never have an original thought or contribute to discourse in any real way. I hope you fail to pass on your genes.

>> No.5795825

>>5795774
>None of those writers are existebtial, you Serbian shitlord. Go back to committing genocide.

>> No.5795841

>>5795817
this is getting way too deep for me

>> No.5795843

>>5795817
now, this seams like a small thing but if you look at things other people wrote few decades before this you can see that this style is not used. why? because it looked plebish.
From the fist chapter whole we can see he has..
>>5795825
did wikipedia tell you that?

pardon me, that he had some problems growing up. you'r amerfags schools are idiotic, I see.
This poor guy he's whole life lived in a shadow of he's successful brother. Which is bringing us to he's hatteret of movies, obviously, he's brother's success

>> No.5795855

>>5795843
In Albert Camus's "stranger" the struggle betwen man and society is seeable on the funeral of main character's mother.
Here in "the catcher in the rye" we can see that struggle is starting in the moment he start's describing he's school, Pencey. He sees that that school is no better than any other one. He sees the problem of blowing up the whole idea of elitism, schooling, education.. you know, non-pleb stuff.
By the grades he has, and the way he behaves , we see that he is not meant for that place. Why? Because to exist in some society, you have to coordinate in it. He's not doing that. We can see that he's "out of the system" and that he can't see himself as a person who belongs to that group.

>> No.5795870

I have to go. nobody lurks, and I have to study, I will be back in few hours.

>> No.5795875

>>5795843
>my brother was more successful than me
>i'm going to write Twilight: The upper middle class New Yorker
>thank god someone killed john lennon. no one gives a fuck about you now successful brother

mission accomplished

>> No.5796284

>>5795843
That isn't what in media res means. In media res means in the middle of the action. Catcher In The Rye doesn't start in media res.

>> No.5798236

>>5795825
>Bukowski isn't existentialist

shiggy fucking diggy

>> No.5798288

99% of ppl who dislike CITR don't even realize that it's about existentialism and being abused by your parent(s)

And therefore, their opinion is discarded, because it's the entry point to understanding all the themes, the museum, the prostitute, the fucking museum even and even the title

and it's not any different on damn /lit/, it's same % of ignorant people QQing for no reason because 'I KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT!! BUT I STILL DON'T LIKE IT', no, you don't get it.

>> No.5798311

>>5798288
I meant to write 'ducks' where the second 'museum' resides in the post. it would've been a disaster if not for the dubs.

>> No.5798324

>>5798288
>having to 'get' a piece of prose just for it to be palatable

no, good prose gets you

>> No.5798343

>CTRL+F rape
>0 results

>> No.5798346

>>5798236
He isn't.

>> No.5798361

>>5798324
it's about the themes though, you need to be able to think of whether you care for the thing, whether you have some actual compassion for the affected and so on

>> No.5798478

>>5798361
You're wrong though. This is the same argument everyone has for CITR. It's not that the theme's are somehow too complex for the average reader. A major issue with the book is that Salinger is ham-fisted in the delivery of his theme's.
the thing is, even if we were to disregard all other elements of a novel that hold weight when evaluating the whole and only focused on thematic profundity, syntactic ability and intelligent plot structure, Salinger and CITR still wouldn't be worth talking about.

>> No.5798661

>>5798478
>This is the same argument everyone has for CITR.
No, not really.

>only focused on thematic profundity, syntactic ability and intelligent plot structure, Salinger and CITR still wouldn't be worth talking about.

but why would anyone sane do that?
also, opinions... and citation needed.

Neither of us is any less wrong than the other.

>> No.5798715

It's been way too long since I've read it, but it's obviously supposed to be more about the ideas than the literal characters and situations, like most "academic writing."

>> No.5798793

>>5795675
what exactly is your argument for disparaging Catcher in the Rye? i find it difficult not to find something deep going on in the book. also, have you read any of Salinger's other work? if you understand what he is going after, i think you can appreciate it much more. holden, and his other characters, aren't merely pointless, wandering people. they are on some journey too, and it has to do with a type of religious apotheosis. check out seymour, and his short story teddy, to get an idea of this.

>> No.5798817

>>5795817
I don't know serbian what does ne persira vam mean? And why should the y in you be capitalized?

>> No.5798839

>>5798324
lol you think that all the high schoolers liking this book are gettin it?

>> No.5799500

>>5795750
>Phoebe
>Unlikeable
I'll fight you

>> No.5799505

>>5795729
you know how I know you aren't good at literary criticism and probably read this book for ap lang

>> No.5800981

It's about Holden not wanting to grow up and, as a consequence (he thinks), turn into a phony. But Holden is already a phony trying to fight back something that can't be fought. He is bound to grow up. The speech his teacher gives him at the end of the book is specially meaningful as it makes it clear to the reader that Holden either grows up dissapointed of the world and hopeless or he fights against phonyness instead of just complaining about it like he did most of the book.

This is what you're suppossed to get out of the book, not some cheap thrill from the plot. The whole point is Holden realizing that he must grow up and that instead of complaining about phonies, he should actually do something about it.

Whether or not Holden is unlikeable (which is subjective) is also irrelevant, that may affect your enjoyment but has nothing to do with the quality and the message of the novel.

>> No.5801001

It's one of the most realistic portrayals of coming of age out there.

Like a lot of kids it was a huge relief for me to read. I even told my dad to read it when we weren't getting along well for a bit.

>> No.5801057

>>5795820
1. Just because it's a common thought doesn't make it a wrong thought. Originality doesn't equal truth.

2. He doesn't need to be saved from it. It's an opinion. It's what he took from the book. It may be wrong depending on what the author intended or how you may have interpreted it, but that's what happens when subjectivity takes its role. People have different opinions resulting from the material.

3. Just because he doesn't have a profound opinion on this book doesn't mean he couldn't have a profound outlook anytime in the future. Making judgments this early on isn't really conclusive to the mass of knowledge he or she might acquire later.

ur just mad cuz he's got mad pusi

>> No.5801065

>>5795729
>reading for plot

>> No.5801614

Bumpin

>> No.5801644

>>5795774
I'm Croatian and yeah, you read and learn all of this when you are 15.
It's a well written book by most standards.
I still fucking hate it because Holden is a little cunt who I'd love to punch in the face.

>> No.5801699

It is good, the problem is people glorifying the massive edgelord faggot that is Holden Caulfield

>> No.5802213

>>5795740
Except the fact that Salinger admitted to basing Holden's experiences off of his own.

>> No.5802243

i love how people have to constantly distance themselves from holden by making sure everyone knows they thought the character was "edgy" and "whiny". congratulations, you didn't like a character that was created for you to dislike. seriously, great job. you "get" it. give yourself a pat on the back.

>> No.5803671

>>5802243
>you're not meant to like the protagonist salinger wants you to spend the next 3 days of your life getting to know, that's the whole point

in that case he did well

>> No.5805758

>>5800981
this seems reasonable, would you kind of say that a typical novel's plot is about the protagonist navigating an environmental crisis, CITR's plot was about holden reasoning his way through an internal crisis? would it be possible to look at every chapter as him realizing different subtle things about himself until it all comes to a climax during his discussion with his professor, or is it all just laying down the terrain up to that point with no significant character development? is that why holden is written to be so unlikeable? because you're not supposed to be rooting for holden himself but instead you're meant to root for the small part of him that happens to be not entirely wrong about his circumstances, rooting for this part of him to be taken seriously instead of a topic to just bitch about?

>> No.5805804

>>5798343

I got one though

you just fail