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/lit/ - Literature

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5792301 No.5792301 [Reply] [Original]

Does consciousness have a gender? Or is it androgynous? Is gender a social construct?

Let's be civil.

>> No.5792361

yes
no
no - its a peenor or vagoo

>> No.5792374

I feel "gender" is not relevant to consciousness

>> No.5792377

No, consciousness does not have a gender, anon.

>> No.5792386

consciousness is gender

>> No.5792405

>>5792301
>Is gender a social construct?

Obviously not. If it was, why are humans sexually dimorphous? Why aren't we just one sex?

Evolution made us two distinct sexes for a reason.

>> No.5792413

>>5792361
A peenor or a vagoo may indicate my sex, but does it also indicate my gender? I do not think so.

>>5792374
How so? You have a gender, and you think about it, right? Doesn't it form a part of your identity?

>>5792405
because social construct

>> No.5792419

>>5792301
Consciousness itself is the creation of a world, and the conviction that the creating entity plays an active part within the created world.
So no. Consciousness comes before gender. You need to be before you can think about what you are.

>> No.5792423

>>5792405
>because social construct

Wait a minute. Are you saying a social construct caused the dimorphization of the sexes? That's hilarious dude, I'll make sure to tell that to my biology professor the next time I meet him so we can have a laugh.

>> No.5792426

>>5792413
>and you think about it, right? Doesn't it form a part of your identity?
No, not really. I'd forget if it wasn't brought up.

>> No.5792427

>>5792301
>Does consciousness have a gender?
This would be an extremely silly metaphysical position to take

>> No.5792432

>>5792423
ment for >>5792413

>> No.5792436

>>5792426
Ok, lucky you.

>>5792423
im saying that society dictates how you act in relation to your gentalia

>> No.5792443

>yes
>yes
>yes
Gender is spooky as heck and 'muh evolution' doesn't explain much

>> No.5792448

>>5792436
Actually it's more about the shape of your body and face and the pitch of your voice than your genitals

>> No.5792457

>>5792443
Wait, I meant
>no
>no
>yes
'Consciousness' is an individual phenomenon, not a chair.

>> No.5792461

>>5792436
>im saying that society dictates how you act in relation to your gentalia

Environment can do alot of work on people, but gender is a specific behavior caused by being part of a specific sex. Females in almost every single instance in nature, do not mate with men who have "feminine traits" and vice versa.

>> No.5792469

>>5792457
Nice way of putting it, anon.

>> No.5792477

>>5792461
but feminine traits differ over various cultures. what is a feminine trait anyway?

>> No.5792495

>>5792477
>but feminine traits differ over various cultures

Almost invariably they don't. Feminine traits include submitting to masculine authority, being sexually available, and being caretaking of offspring. These traits, granted, almost don't exist with women anymore, except perhaps in childrearing because they don't have a choice, are an effect of being a female.

>> No.5792503

>>5792301
i tend to believe that deconstructing gender, while quite fun in a mischievous way, is potentially dangerous. you might pull one too many bricks out of the old cathedral by asking such silly questions, and it will come crashing down around you!

>> No.5792507

>>5792495
I think you are forgetting matriarchal societies that have existed the world over, in which the women were revered in even in positions of power over their male counterparts.

>> No.5792529
File: 14 KB, 546x362, anon's guide to gender fluidity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5792529

>>5792301
>>>/lgbt/
>>>/tumblr/
Please go away

>> No.5792536

>>5792529
Is somebody afraid of virginia woolf?

>> No.5792539

>>5792507
>I think you are forgetting matriarchal societies that have existed the world over, in which the women were revered in even in positions of power over their male counterparts.

Like what society would that be? Give an example, because with the exception of the West, there has not existed a matriarchal society before.

>> No.5792545

If gender is a social construct, how come almost everyone has one?

>> No.5792556

>>5792529
Stop acting like everyone on here share your view.
This isn't /pol/

>> No.5792559

>>5792539
Hahah ok. But you could just google it :)

The Hopi indians of the American SW, the societies of the Western Pacific, and i believe many in sub-Saharan Africa

>> No.5792560

>>5792545
God is a social construct but most people think it's real

>> No.5792569

>>5792560
*tips fedora*

>> No.5792570

>>5792413
Sex is a very good indicator of gender.

Less than half percent of a population being transgender notwithstanding.

>> No.5792575

>>5792559
>The Hopi indians of the American SW, the societies of the Western Pacific, and i believe many in sub-Saharan Africa

Well that would depend on your definition of "matriarchal", because if you think that them having a female shaman or some other respected position makes the society matriarchal, then your definition is different than mine.

>> No.5792583

Listen, if you're a woman you are inherently better at cleaning and rearing children. It's genetic.
If you're a man you're inherently better at being volatile, self-centered, and slightly autistic. It's genetic.

>> No.5792595

>>5792583
Then why are all the best cleaning people men?

>> No.5792598

>>5792583
>misandry
Please more of this as a submissive male I think it's really hot.

>> No.5792605

>>5792598
You are a nigger.

>> No.5792609

>>5792598
>misandry
>facts about human nature

okay

>> No.5792622

>mfw people ITT act like gender and biology are in some way related
damn, that's hilarious

>> No.5792624

>>5792583
I know plenty of women who are shit cleaners, I'm assuming you got this pseudoscience from a /pol/ infograph

>> No.5792629
File: 49 KB, 438x600, 438px-Billy_Mays_Portrait_Cropped.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5792629

>>5792595
Forgot your pic.

>> No.5792631

>>5792624
>women are shit-cleaners

back 2 /pol/, misogynist pig.

>> No.5792632

>>5792622
>The world's face when you're an annoying faggot
>Anyone's face when suddenly tranny

Lol fag

>> No.5792635

>>5792631
Nice meme.

>> No.5792636

>>5792631
That's not what that guy said.

>> No.5792639

>>5792632
>slurs
>slurs
>more slurs
napkin, simply napkin

>> No.5792646

>>5792624
>pseudoscience from a /pol/

>implying

/pol/ is always right, friend.

>> No.5792647

While this thread's here I may as well ask:
anyone else read "Virginia Woolf" as "Vagina Woolf"?
because I do, and am slightly disturbed that I haven't stopped over the years

>> No.5792651

>>5792639
>Lol so random non-sequitors but you're forced to reply

Are you that retard from #4chan who is compelled to respond with idiocy to everything? Loom or whatever?

>> No.5792652

>>5792646
That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day, and I've been posting on /lit/ for at least two hours.

>> No.5792657
File: 52 KB, 546x768, Sigmund_Freud_LIFE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5792657

>>5792647
I have never accidentally read it that way. Perhaps there is some underlying cause.

>> No.5792660
File: 157 KB, 625x370, polisright.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5792660

>>5792652
>That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day

Clearly you aren't informed.

>> No.5792669

>>5792660
please fuck off back to your containment board

>> No.5792671

>>5792647
they call me Vagina Wolf, i pounce the puss to the lighthouse and back
fuck on the roof and cum on Orlando's dick and rack

>> No.5792678

>>5792660
The easiest and most effective way of silencing an opponent on the internet is to claim they are "uninformed" without explaining what amazing information you hold. Of course, it also makes you look like a blithering idiot to everyone who doesn't share your dogmatism, but of course I wan't expecting skilled rhetoric from a /pol/ack.

>> No.5792680

>>5792660
Well newfag you should know that "/pol/ is always right" officially refers to the phenomena that "it" is usually "the jews". Nothing more. You should also know you meme spouting, rabid retards are why 4chan proper has disowned the board.

>> No.5792692

The Jews are behind gender

>> No.5792694

>>5792669
>>5792678
>>5792680
The amount of butthurt here is really astounding. I wasn't the one who mentioned /pol/ remember, we were having a civil discussion about gender, but you had to rattle the hornet's nest, not my fault you guys have to be so fucking childishly defensive.

>> No.5792697

>>5792692
Yes. They are trying to destroy Western civilization by propagating the fluidity of gender through liberal media and flouride in water.

>> No.5792698

>>5792694
lmao

>> No.5792707

>>5792694
>>>/pol/

>> No.5792711

>>5792694
>Explain the meme you're vomiting
>LE BUTTHURT xP

kek stay off rizon pls

>> No.5792713 [DELETED] 

Gender literally doesn't exist: it is a social construct invented by the Jews in order to control reproduction

>> No.5792720 [DELETED] 

There is no such thing as gender. It's a Jewish invention designed to make everyone gay so they can exterminate them and stuff

>> No.5792723 [DELETED] 
File: 24 KB, 954x539, 1407666439449.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5792723

>>5792559
Societies that never achieved much.

>> No.5792727

>>5792723
dem goalposts

>> No.5792729

>>5792723
>yfw they were probably happier than Western societies

brb going to pop a pill to make myself feel better and numb the pain of pointless existence.

>> No.5792842

>>5792727
He's not really moving them though. If anything, the fact that these female-run societies were confined to the mud is a clear indication that the differences between the sexes are more than some "construct".
>>5792729
Define "happiness" and then you might have a point albeit not a good one

>> No.5793666

>>5792671
ohmygosh 10/10 i genuinely chuckled.

>> No.5793687

>"Quickly, everybody! To the Lighthouse!"

people actually read this hack?

>> No.5793693

>>5792536
Sounds like you haven't read Woolf.

>> No.5793708

>>5793693
fight me. I've read it. i was referencing the film you twat.

>> No.5793844

>>5793687
there are multiple instances of 'to the lighthouse' in the book

>> No.5796128

>>5792423
You have absolutely no idea what the difference is between sex en gender is, do you?
And even the concept of sex isn't prediscursive. What doesn't fit in the socially constructed category, doesn't get the socially constructed label, and the category is much broader than "having a penis or a vagina."

>> No.5797523

Okay, well. Now that we have prerequisite shitposting out of the way, how does Woolf toy with gender in To the Lighthouse?

>> No.5797530
File: 419 KB, 800x800, rp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5797530

The Waves was better.

>> No.5797541

>>5792622
how's soc 101 going?

>> No.5797594

>>5797530
pleeb

>> No.5797998

>>5797541
>>5797594
I should have known better. Thanks for the collective effort everyone. I'm sure some day we will be able to discuss this, but that day won't be today.

>> No.5798021

I prefer to think of the unique, individual experience as subjectivity rather than consciousness. This free it from the kind of "universal" qualities that consciousness entails.

In the case of using subjectivity to describe the personal, individual experience of oneself and our relation to the perception of the world, then we can understand that that subjectivity is mediated (or say "filtered") by certain material and immaterial conditions. The latter is easy enough to understand. The latter I guess can be understood as social relations and being that gender is embedded within the world as a social relation, it makes sense for me to assume that subjectivity is understood as and mediated through gender.

>> No.5798033

>>5798021
The former* is easy enough to understand; your height, your ability to see, your ability to feel, your limitations based on physical circumstances.

>> No.5798220

>>5797530
I plan on reading The Waves soon. Would you care to elaborate?

>> No.5798238
File: 93 KB, 171x278, 1339365205940.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5798238

>>5792301
>Let's be civil.
On /lit/!?

>> No.5798302

>>5798238
Yes, I don't know why I assumed that this community of mouthbreathers would be able to discuss literature. I guess I am an optimist.

>> No.5798307

>>5792301
feminist bullshit

>> No.5798309

>>5798302
>/lit/
>discussion

>> No.5798316

>>5798309
>Summerfag
>Posting

Tfw you people have made your post accurate by sheer numbers

>> No.5798377

>>5798309
>>5798316
Jesus Christ, stop. Just talk about the book and the topic at hand.

Fuck.

Lily Briscoe and her artistic vision - does she represent a woman who is closer to the male gender, and vice versa with Mr. Bankes and his feminine traits. Through this is Woolf demonstrating the fluidity of gender?

>> No.5800268

>>5792301
I'm reading a book by a Jungian psychologist that says consciousness is gendered and androgynous. It's titled Androgyny.

>> No.5801994

>>5792405
>Obviously not. If it was, why are humans sexually dimorphous?

Sexual dimorphism has absolutely nothing to do with gender as a social construct.

So far, there are maybe 2 people in this entire thread who understand the difference between sex and gender.