/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5763392]

So /lit/, you a big name author yet?

Do you even have a marketing plan for that book you plan to self-publish if you can't get a traditional contract?

[Anonymous No.5763397]

[Anonymous No.5763402]

self publishing lmao


am I the only person who would never, ever consider it?

I would be open to a small, local press for earlier/more experimental works, but it's basically big four or bust

(yes I know how agents work)

[Anonymous No.5763416]

>>5763402
A few people have gotten really successful by self publishing and it's well established that having a reasonable measure of success in the self-pubbing realm can get the notice of a traditional house that might have otherwise turned the book down.

[Anonymous No.5763420]

>>5763392
pac man

[Anonymous No.5763424]

>>5763402

I will never self-publish.

Never.

If I'm not good enough for a traditional publishing house to entertain my prose, then I'm not good enough and should work on being fucking better. That's how I see it.

Self publishing tastes like the kool-aid that people who can't handle an editor's scrutiny feed each other because their ideas are like, so original man, the mainstream just doesn't get it.

[Anonymous No.5763427]

>>5763424
Except that traditional publishing doesn't work like that anymore. Yes, it matter that a book is well written, no, that's not the primary concern. What publishers look at is whether or not they think a book will sell enough units to make a profit. Marketability and popularity are the deciding factor.

[Anonymous No.5763429]

>>5763392
I'm more worried about finishing the few books I have going right now. I'm thinking a package deal where I show I could consistently release at least three books over time would be appealing to a publisher. Even have rough sketches of 2 coupled with a finished one I think would be appealing.

[kitty !kitty/EnNg No.5763430]

>>5763420
exactly my thought too :3

[Anonymous No.5763431]

>>5763420
Took me a second.

[kitty !kitty/EnNg No.5763434]

>>5763424
you may consider that you are not bad for traditional publishing but too unusual or something :3

[Anonymous No.5763436]

>>5763429
While it seems that trilogies (across most genres) are the going thing, you're better off not announcing that you have a planned or written series that go along with the book you're querying. If they like it then they'll want more, otherwise don't play that card or you're more likely to scare them off.

[Anonymous No.5763438]

>>5763427

These are the struggles. aren't they.

I still refuse to throw my manuscript on top of the largest digital slush pile in history just because literature is a business. It's always been a business. Self publishing offers nothing that chance doesn't already offer, I think.

[Anonymous No.5763441]

>>5763434
:3

I admit, it's been a few months since I last came to lit, but have you guys really been letting shit like this happen while I was away?

[Anonymous No.5763445]

>>5763434

This is a fair point. But wat do? : /

[Anonymous No.5763452]

>>5763441
Just filter it.

[Anonymous No.5763453]

>>5763438
What if you were unsuccessful in your attempts at finding a trad publisher, but in the opinion of people whom you respect and who have some idea about the industry (e.g. an editor friend or an agent who took you on but couldn't find a buyer) thought that the book was worth publishing. Would you compromise so far as to self-publish in that situation? Or would you just put the book aside and try again with something else?

[Anonymous No.5763462]

>>5763436
It's not a trilogy. It's just a trio of pretty solid ideas I'm working on. Switching between them helps me from losing focus and keeps me writing. I'm thinking of a consistent output which they could build my name up around would look good. Alot of the time contracts come with an advance and a promise to write another book I've heard. I also write about ideas that would appeal to middle-class intellectuals, are fairly easily digestible but yield more under close scrutiny, and are critical enough of that type of mind that someone could potentially come out of thinking they had "an experience". Or at least that is the way I am envisioning it.

[Anonymous No.5763463]

>>5763453

This is actually... pretty much exactly the situation I'm in right now. My editor says green light. A personal friend who is a best-selling historical fiction author says green light. But no trad houses have bit.

I can't bring myself to self publish. I know nothing about marketing, and the self-publishing entity is, in my mind, literally a slush pile. If I put it there, it will vanish. And having it vanish like that is worse than continuing to fight for a publisher, when my editor and mentor both think the product is worthwhile.

Fight the good fight, I suppose. Do you think e/lit/ists should consider self-pubbing in this scenario?

[Anonymous No.5763467]

>>5763462
Yes and no.

Unless the company is specifically contracting you to write a series the chance that a first time author has a second/third book written into the contract is pretty much nil. On the first book the priority is to see how you perform and if it's good enough then they have you back.

What most first time contracts include is a right of first refusal for what ever you write next. If you turn out to be a solid bet then they pick up the second book, if not then you're on your own again.

[Anonymous No.5763475]

>>5763429

[Anonymous No.5763480]

>>5763463
I'm sort of only arguing with you for the sake of it.

I DON'T think that self-publishing should be dismissed out of hand, but the truth is that it really is a slush pile for the most part. The cream on the top is a tiny percentage and it takes more than outright skill to get there.

You need a lot of marketing and in all likelihood you need to keep writing and releasing books and not just pin your hopes on one release. The most reliable method of succeeding in traditional publishing is simply to have a lot of material and maintain a public presence to help get out the word about your writing. That means participating in writing forums, keeping up a twitter and facebook page (by which I mean post regularly, comment on other people's shit, retweet and favourite stuff, get involved), probably a blog or at least a website where you provide updates, look for blogs that will review your book (they usually have a huge waiting list), do IRL marketing by contacting book stores and libraries and other interested parties to see if they'll host you for a reading or a signing or something, get in your local newspaper and on morning radio shows.

Basically the big difference between them is how much leg work you have to do for yourself. Some of it is done for you by trad publishers, none of it is done for you if you self-publish.

With the market as it is, if you really believe in your book but can't find an outlet for it then you don't lose anything by self-publishing it. Just know that unless you're insanely lucky you'll only make $20 off it.

[Anonymous No.5763490]

>>5763480

These are all incredibly useful thoughts, thanks for taking the time, Anon. I'm a big short-story writer--trying to get my name out there through lit magazines and that sort of thing. Been mildly successful; just trying to land a bag full of journal appearances for a bit of clout to swing around with my manuscript to publishing houses.

Finishing short story after short story, launching them at magazines and magazines. Hopefully I'll have a small little oeuvre of lit magazine reviews to catch the eye of a publisher for the larger projects.

Not sure if this is the best avenue, but snagging lit mags feels like mini successes in the traditional sphere for some reason.

[Anonymous No.5763512]

>>5763480
>The most reliable method of succeeding in traditional publishing
Should be the most reliable method of succeeding in SELF publishing...

>>5763490
I would say that lit mag credits are good proof of talent but not enough to sway a decision on buying a manuscript either way. Having a few shorts out there is no guarantee that a stand alone book will find an audience from the publisher's point of view, so don't let yourself be distracted by the idea that you need those credits to get a manuscript accepted.

More than anything you need a story that will sell. Luckily vampire stories don't seem to sell anymore.

[Anonymous No.5763532]

>>5763402
I did the music equivalent of self publishing a couple times.

Was a huge pain in the ass, but at least with music I can play shows and at those shows, I'm at least guaranteed SOME money so if I don't end up selling anything, it isn't a total bust.

Marketing isn't even really that difficult especially in this day and age, but you need a budget and time. And you need a lot more money and time if you plan on self-publishing, because with that, you go into the release with absolutely NO audience other than your own. You don't have the people that trust the publisher's taste. You don't get your book advertised in other, similar books. Every store you get to sell your book, you have to seek out and negotiate with.

>>5763480
Makes some great points here, however, you DO lose something if you self-publish, that being the manufacturing costs, and in many cases, you'd be quite lucky to end up $20 ahead.

More often than not, you'll end up with an attic or a basement full of boxes of your book.


>>5763490
That's a great place to start. Just work your way up.


All of that being said, in many cases, the publisher doesn't do nearly as much as you'd expect. Yes, they do hook you up with an editor and a cover artist. But those reviews/blurbs on the cover/first pages from other authors saying how great your book is? Those are all you. And quite a bit of your book's success will depend on your actions; not their's. The way you interact with people through social media and public appearances. The way you promote your work through various outlets. The way you present yourself in the world. The connections you make. A publisher is really just giving you a big loan and a handful of resources to make a go at being an author. The rest is up to you

[Anonymous No.5763537]

>>5763463
Have you tried looking for an agent to present it to publishers? Or maybe a better agent? The majority of authors I've met didn't get "bites" right away from publishers. They all stuck it out though and many of their books became quite successful.

[Anonymous No.5763539]

>>5763532
>More often than not, you'll end up with an attic or a basement full of boxes of your book.

Ah I'm referring specifically to e-book publishing like through Smashwords. It's free except for their commission which was like 30% last time I looked.

Vanity publishing where they print 500 copies of your book and send them to you is infinitely more useless than digital publishing in the modern day.

[Anonymous No.5763543]

>>5763532
>All of that being said, in many cases, the publisher doesn't do nearly as much as you'd expect. Yes, they do hook you up with an editor and a cover artist. But those reviews/blurbs on the cover/first pages from other authors saying how great your book is? Those are all you. And quite a bit of your book's success will depend on your actions; not their's. The way you interact with people through social media and public appearances. The way you promote your work through various outlets. The way you present yourself in the world. The connections you make. A publisher is really just giving you a big loan and a handful of resources to make a go at being an author. The rest is up to you

This is all very true. The big thing that a publishers gives you is credibility to do things like organise book store signings or book tours.

I can't remember which interview it's in exactly but Brandon Sanderson once talked about how his first book tour was something he organised all on his own. His publisher gave him some (a tiny amount) money to cover travel and accommodation and he basically just drove to a handful of cities where he had lined up signings in various places. I seem to recall he did that with another up and coming author with the same publisher.

[Anonymous No.5763549]

>>5763539
I can't imagine trying to hawk an e-book.
I mean, the way it worked for me in music was, I put together a great looking, professionally pressed, CD and so people trusted that the music on it was at least reasonably well-done. I mean, who would spend that kind of money on some garageband webcam rap record, right?

The point I'm trying (and failing) to make here is that when you're trying to sell a product that didn't actually take an investment to make, it's much more difficult to convince your audience/market that the product is good. Because why couldn't someone just vomit on the page for 400 pages and then slap a price on it?

That and I can't imagine trying to sell something like that online. I mean, the majority of my sales come from people I kind of make friends with. I don't even charge for my CDs, I do a pay what you want, but since I started doing that, I've been making twice as much. And I've barely sold a quarter of that in my online presence.

[Anonymous No.5763564]

>>5763549
It's a different game altogether is all it comes down to. You're right about the professional thing though, if you're going to self-publish an ebook then you really need to have a REALLY good cover design and formatting, if you can't manage that yourself then you need to pay for it.

That's where your lost costs might come in. You can get cheap artwork on commission for cover art (maybe $100 for an image that's not too complex) and there are people who specialise in ebook formatting and do that for ~$60.

Just don't even bother if you use MS paint to make your book cover and the formatting is all over the place.

Otherwise marketing efforts rely on what you can manage as an indivdual and being part of communities who support writers. And by being part of them I don't mean signing up and hawking your shit then never showing up again, I mean being an actual part of those communities.

They say that good marketing is a full time job in and of itself and that's not far from the truth.

Shit, maybe I should just start a company that specialises in helping self-pubbers get their marketing going.

[Anonymous No.5763791]

>>5763490
could you share some of those lit journals? Not even the issue where you published, I just want to see what level of talent you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.5763798]

My plan is to win awards and then get grant money, fellowships and academic posts to fund my hobby full time.

[Anonymous No.5764062]

>>5763475
Sauce?
I like this kind of writing inso.

[Anonymous No.5764087]

>>5763798
Good taste anon, this is also my plan.

[Anonymous No.5764105]

I've pretty well given up on the dream of publishing.

I'd rather write just to write, and if I come up with a piece I think is brilliant we'll see what happens. Maybe when I'm bored with life I will travel down the publishing road.

[Anonymous No.5764109]

>>5763490
>I'm a big short-story writer--trying to get my name out there through lit magazines and that sort of thing.

Hi, Anon. My name's Veronica. I sat down one day and shat out a Hunger Games rip off, submitted the manuscript to Harper Collins, and told them I was writing 4 more books in the series. Within two weeks, they wrote to me wanting to buy all the books (one almost finished, three not even started) for 17 million dollars.

[Anonymous No.5764119]

>>5764109
>living the dream

[Anonymous No.5764130]

>>5764119
>living the dream?

Yeah, pretty much, Anon. I've just got off set in the Philippines right now for a cameo in the film adaptation. Gonna chill on the beach all day tomorrow with a book and a bottle of cognac, head into a few Manilla bars, then might check out Vietnam or Thailand for a few weeks. Thinking of Buying a large yacht and cruising along the Cambodian coast to get there.

[Anonymous No.5764147]

>>5763475
this > that bullshit orwell list

[Anonymous No.5764156]

>>5763475
My biggest problem is that I can't work according to a program and not feel like a draught horse

[Anonymous No.5764157]

>>5764156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7yuTR8r6QM

[Anonymous No.5764177]

How does one go about advertising his book without looking like a attention whore or a sellout?

[Anonymous No.5764191]

>>5764109
>>5764130

This hurts me

[Anonymous No.5764203]

>>5764130
>cognac on the beach
c'mon veronica

[Anonymous No.5764218]

>>5763463
where are you from? Have you tried getting an agent?

[Anonymous No.5764258]

>>5764203
It's a very, very expensive bottle of cognac. Tbh, I'll probably pour it out and fill the bottle with long island iced tea. I just need the bottle because I'm rich as fuck and want errybody to know it. With the royalties from the first film included, I'm taking home nearly 2.3 million a month now. See, that's what happens when you write generic YA. You get so much money that you end up buying 25k bottles of cognac to pour down the sink.

[Anonymous No.5764268]

>>5764109
>>5764258
>submitted the manuscript to Harper Collins,
>Within two weeks, they wrote to me wanting to buy all the books for 17 million dollars.
>See, that's what happens when you write generic YA

OMG me too. Just signed my Harper YA contract for four mil.

[Anonymous No.5764277]

>>5764268
>OMG me too. Just signed my Harper YA contract for four mil.
You're supposed to negotiate. I got 7 million out of my YA Harper contract..

[Anonymous No.5764281]

Glimmer Train is one of the coolest literary journals out there. Agents read the mag looking for talent to sign up. You can submit your stories for free, or pay $15 to enter contests and have your shot at $1500.

Giddy up!

[Anonymous No.5764283]

>>5763424
All this retardation. If traditional publishing has such high standards, why does the big four put out shit like The Hunger Games and The Fault in Our Stars? What they publish has nothing to do with quality, just how well it will sell. If strings of random characters became all the rage, the big four would be pumping out best selling novels of random characters.

[Anonymous No.5764294]

>>5764277
is there a clause in the contract that says that you have to show the contract on social networks?

[Anonymous No.5764295]

>>5764283
This is not true. I got published because I'm a damn good writer. I'm like Nabokov. Yes, it's a YA romance novel about a skinchanger, but I included four metaphors and one those other metaphor thinks called smiles or something.

[Anonymous No.5764299]

>>5764294
>is there a clause in the contract that says that you have to show the contract on social networks?
Actually, yes. We're obliged to maintain a social network presence.

[Anonymous No.5764300]

>>5764299
that sounds tiring
i'm sorry you have to go through this

[Anonymous No.5764301]

>>5764283
Just in case this does catch on, i'm getting started right now.

aoehuohduhich m,wbrhbjkrb,2. toehur,c.h ,oerudfrfd,hdmb oeteelh,lehmu,.

Hope that's random enough to get their attention.

[Anonymous No.5764302]

>>5764301
>implying a human being can generate something random

[Anonymous No.5764307]

>>5764300
>that sounds tiring
It sure is. I have to deal with 400 teenage girls telling me how wonderful and talented I am every day.

[Anonymous No.5764320]

>>5764307
why is it mostly middle-age women with a not too satisfying life the authors of this crap?

[Anonymous No.5764334]

>>5764320
mostly?
jk rowling was a rich woman even before the books, most sci-fi and fantasy authors are thirty something dudes, stephanie meyer too probably didn't have too many problems and wasn't that old
also madame bovary biatch

[Anonymous No.5764463]

>>5764334
Rowling was on benefits and an orphan

[Anonymous No.5764469]

>>5764463
she married up

[Anonymous No.5765464]

>>5764258
>>5764268
>>5764277
Fuck, you guys so much. I'm actually mad, but can't stop laughing.

[Anonymous No.5765477]

>>5763392
>that book you plan to self-publish
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.5765493]

Why aren't you people satisfied with creating work to share with friends and acquaintances?

[Anonymous No.5765500]

>>5763392
I write porn on commission for degenerate furries and other wankers because I'm a whore and their disposable cash is just too sweet

[Anonymous No.5765507]

>>5765493

Fucking kek

[Anonymous No.5765525]

does making fun of other authors make up for the fact that you're talentless children who'll never get anything published?

[Anonymous No.5765548]

>>5765525
I think its really cool tbh, I'm a way bigger whore as it is for money but idk how I would write YA fiction, I personally hate those type of books and don't know how I would go about them

[Anonymous No.5766407]

>>5765500
If you get a boner while doing it then that's not okay.

[Anonymous No.5766460]

Is self-publishing really that bad? That was my plan. I just wanted to get some short stories out there. If I make pennies, I make pennies. Better than a rejection letter. It'll be under a pen name, and I sure as shit am not up to writing literary fiction.

Just cheap genre garbage that I enjoy making up. It's fun. I have no delusions of grandeur, just want to make a few bucks here and there if possible.

[Anonymous No.5766487]

>>5766460
>just want to make a few bucks here and there if possible.
Lower your expectations unless you literally mean a "few bucks" when you say it, because you might make enough money to satisfy a parking meter without some kind of consistency and plan and marketing to go along with your self-publishing dreams.

[Anonymous No.5766497]

This is now a marketing thread.

I am a marketing professional who has always had an interest in writing. I specialise in digital marketing which includes social media and SEO so I certainly know enough to get you started as an author whether self-published or not..