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5755382 No.5755382 [Reply] [Original]

Why did God have to die on the cross?

>> No.5755386

who says he had to?

>> No.5755395

>>5755386
Why did he want to?

>> No.5755402

>>5755386
He designed and oversaw everything including time and ostensibly the need to do this despite not appearing to have any forknowledge that he would do so.

>> No.5755413

>>5755395
who says he wanted to?

>> No.5755414 [DELETED] 

>>5755395

Love.
Cuz he so loved the world.

>> No.5755420

for us, dude

>>5755386
he didn't, that's the beauty of it

>>5755395
he didn't want to, he was a man

>> No.5755424 [DELETED] 

>>5755414

This
John 3:16
/thread

>> No.5755425

>>5755420
So then why did he have to?

>> No.5755431

>>5755425
he didn't have to. it was voluntary

>> No.5755438

>>5755431
So why did he want to?

>> No.5755461

Christ's death and resurrection demonstrates the victory of love over violence and the futility of blaming the weak. The crucifixion was an example of kenosis (self-emptying) where God humbled Himself in order to make His rising to a new life more powerful.

>> No.5755465

>>5755438
jesus didn't want to but knew it was necessary

>> No.5755473

>>5755465
Why was it necessary?

>> No.5755475

i mean its god. did he really DIE? cus i dont think god can ACTUALLY die. makes it all sound like a big charade imo

pls, anyone schooled in theology explain this to me

>> No.5755479

>>5755461
Why did God need or want to do this?

>> No.5755483

>>5755473
cuz it was part of the plan

>> No.5755500

>>5755483
God planned to kill himself?

>> No.5755517

>>5755479
Art, fuckwit.

>> No.5755522

>>5755382
>Why did God have to die on the cross?
Because getting nailed to a circle would´ve been simply silly...

>> No.5755533

>>5755479
To demonstrate the victory of love over violence, as I said. The resurrection of God means the end of sacrifice.

>He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning. See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing will hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice at this, that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

>> No.5755535

>>5755522
You mean like a spinning wheel of death at the circus?

>> No.5755536

as a sacrifice to forgive sin and to dispense the life-giving spirit

>> No.5755541

>>5755475
he died and then was resurrected after three days. then ascended into heaven

>> No.5755548

>>5755541
Interesting that we celebrate The Son's birthday on December 25th when The Sun is at it's lowest point in the sky for three days, yes?

>> No.5755550

>>5755541
my question was: what does it mean in the first place to say that god DIED. hes god. he cant actually DIE can he? it sounds like a charade.

>> No.5755555

>>5755550
the flesh died

>> No.5755566

>>5755548
i live in the southern hemisphere so i didn't know that but it is interesting

>> No.5755569

>>5755550
In orthodox Christian theology, Jesus is both fully divine and fully human; he dies as a human being dies at the same time as he is God in the fullest sense of the word. The question of what it means to say that God died is simply one aspect of the central mystery and paradox of Christianity.

>> No.5755582

>>5755533
But why was that necessary?

>> No.5755587

>>5755582
Human existence is sinful, limited, mortal.

>> No.5755592

>>5755382
Well, if you're going to create mankind and burden them with life on Earth I suppose it's only fair to have a taste of it yourself innit?

>> No.5755609

>>5755569
thank you!

>> No.5755616

>>5755569
you shut your fucking whore mouth!

I swear to god I will hunt you down and wear your skin like a coat.

>> No.5755621

>>5755548
Interesting that English is the only language where son and sun look and pronounce similarly, yes?

>> No.5755647

>>5755616

underageb&

>> No.5756002

I think a central premise of Christianity is undermining cycles of injustice through the radical and absurd act of love, and while said breached cycles are most easily relatable to mundane violences ( IE. oppression, power imbalances, the incitement of vengeance, etc..) in Christianity this also applies metaphysically to the debt of human sin (and the vague premise of ransom) that somehow prevents us from fully engaging with God as we potentially could.
The image of Christ as a sacrificial lamb is the most direct and obvious metaphor in the New Testament: Mosaic Judaism was a blood cult requiring sacrificial offerings for absolution. God required equivalent death for His forgiveness.
From the Mosaic perspective, mankind was caught in a perpetual cycle of transaction. We sin, we suffer, we give a sacrifice, God forgives us back, we enjoy his favor until the process repeats.
What's most interesting about Christianity is how it was so willing to cast off its own Jewish identity in taking this fundamental Mosaic give and take (eye for an eye) narrative of man's place in the universe and regarding it as the very thing holding humanity back with no one more responsible than its central figure: God himself, the vengeful deity that seeks retribution from his own creation, much in the same way an insecure person might "demand satisfaction" for being dishonored.
Inherent in the Gospels is the idea that this atavistic depiction of God is obsolete. Just as it was on us to forgive us our debtors, so was it now on God to show his capacity for Love, which he did though his own crucifixion, a blatantly historic display of God's Love for humanity through a reversal of the standard transaction: a sacrifice on HIS part for mankind's benefit. And when we integrate the divinity of Christ, that He was not just God's son but God Himself, this act holds the significant consequence of permanently liberating mankind from the burden of our "sin". With God Himself dead there is no one to whom to pay the ransom for our transgression, the whole system is disrupted and we are absolved of responsibility towards anyone but ourselves.

>> No.5756005

>>5756002 (Cont.)
When God, as Christ, autonomously eliminated Himself, with Him went the seemingly endless dilemma of ransom and atonement, allowing space for a superior model for religious devotion: the idea that this new Christian depiction of God as Agape (love: esp. brotherly love, charity; the love of God for man and of man for God) could be realized practically under the guise of the Holy Spirit, a virtual entity that dwells within the community of believers (appearing when two or more gather in the name of Christ/Love) and is observed as much as it is allowed to through the communal functioning of the "Church".
Teleologically, God's suicide was for the sake of a historic progress: the Eternal God of Abraham negated his infinite self though His incarnation as the mortal Christ, who in turn negated his finite self--dying as a person that he might ascend as the greater figure of the Holy Spirit (God as Love), a figure both finite and absolute in nature that designates a narrative space for the collective action humanitarian project that Christ so often referred to as the Kingdom of Heaven, only materially possible once we humans, as vessels for the Holy Spirit and the Ascended Living Christ, are capable of acting on God's behalf.

>> No.5756034

>>5756005
*cough* Hegel *cough*

>> No.5756263

>>5755382
My God died for the sake of pure ideology, can you believe that?

>> No.5756293

He had to, just like Maximilian Kolbe had to sacrifice himself or like Thomas More couldn't accept Henry VIII getting divorced.

>> No.5756338

>>5756293
Jesus might have had to but the other two certainly didn't. Kolbe chose to and More was doing far more bitching about a divorce. You need to read history not martyrology.

>> No.5756693

>>5755382
Because Pilate sentenced him to death.