How to cure nihilism? Nietzsche didn't help.

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Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:23:06 2014 No.5751392 [Reply] [Original]

How to cure nihilism?

Nietzsche didn't help.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:24:22 2014 No.5751398 try exercise

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:24:25 2014 No.5751400 Stop endlessly thinking. Go do physical things. Talk to people, be physically active, have sex, but above all, make choices and do things actively. This is a serious answer, not something flip and critical - action is the answer to nihilism.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:30:08 2014 No.5751417

I don't think humans can actually be nihilists. You have some ideas in your mind which you use to understand yourself and your world, and how those two relate.

Apparently this is causing you some amount of misery. So you already realize that diminishing your misery is a worthwhile goal.

Recognize that your misery is no different than anybody else's. Generalize.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:30:35 2014 No.5751419 Be aware of the fact that you don't know everything, and that what you know might be wrong

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:01:53 2014 No.5751499

>>5751398
>>5751400
So endlessly distracting yourself is the answer?
Seems fickle...
It doesn't work anyway. I play rugby and have regular sexual intercourse. It's just a temporary relief.

>>5751417
>I don't think humans can be nihilists.
Oh shit, hold the phones guys.
Seriously though... I'm sure that a belief in the infinite unimportance and meaninglessness of human existence is quite a rational response to life experience.
All the good "cures" seem to involve a sense of willful ignorance or at least "dumbing down": i.e. Kierkegaard's whole message in fear and trembling is just to "accept". To not attempt to understand or know God, and to just bear the evil and suffering (like the preacher in La Peste, after he sees the child die in agony). If you take an "existence precedes essence" approach then you've not solved anything and just sidestepped the issue by redefining parameters.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:12:24 2014 No.5751521 >>5751499 Okay, if life is so meaningless, kill yourself. /thread

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:32:41 2014 No.5751552

>>5751499
>Oh shit, hold the phones guys.
>Seriously though... I'm sure that a belief in the infinite unimportance and meaninglessness of human existence is quite a rational response to life experience.
>All the good "cures" seem to involve a sense of willful ignorance or at least "dumbing down": i.e. Kierkegaard's whole message in fear and trembling is just to "accept". To not attempt to understand or know God, and to just bear the evil and suffering (like the preacher in La Peste, after he sees the child die in agony). If you take an "existence precedes essence" approach then you've not solved anything and just sidestepped the issue by redefining parameters.

Jesus did you even read my post? I feel like I'm talking to a wall here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:34:55 2014 No.5751559 Nihilism is literally the belief of complete morons. Like people with no effort at all in the rigmarole that is usually trying to rationalize their existential purpose. Whet their ennui, if you catch my drift.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:38:09 2014 No.5751565 You embrace it, everything else is self-delusion, intentional or not.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:40:41 2014 No.5751573 >>5751499 Stop playing rugby and having sex with sluts and start reading analytic philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:42:13 2014 No.5751574 File: 120 KB, 474x528, tipsfedora.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5751565

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 05:52:22 2014 No.5751589 File: 993 KB, 250x250, LOL - Sensible Chuckle.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5751573 >Stop playing rugby and having sex with sluts and start reading analytic philosophy. Lol good troll anon!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 06:02:20 2014 No.5751604 >How to cure nihilism? Did you try turning 19? Usually does the trick.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 06:12:39 2014 No.5751619 >>5751604 i turn 19 this week. Keeping my fingers crossed...

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 08:55:44 2014 No.5751879

>>5751392
You can't, but don't just take my word for it. "Nihilism is the unavoidable corollary of the realist conviction that there is a mind-independent reality, which, despite the presumptions of human narcissism, is indifferent to our existence and oblivious to the ‘values’ and ‘meanings’ which we would drape over it in order to make it more hospitable. Nature is not our or anyone’s ‘home’, nor a particularly beneficent progenitor."

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:15:54 2014 No.5752201 get friend that do enjoy living

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:18:44 2014 No.5752206 File: 94 KB, 1435x478, smug pepe advice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5751392 It can't be cured, but a mischievous cynicism treats the symptoms.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:20:03 2014 No.5752208 compassion or a tulpa

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:21:51 2014 No.5752211 Hey buddy. Your nihilism is the natural product of something else. You have depression. Surprisingly a lot of people don't realize they have depression because it's often so passive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:31:43 2014 No.5752231 File: 80 KB, 270x269, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5752211 Stop posting anytime.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:46:43 2014 No.5752280 >>5751392 >How to cure nihilism? If you're looking for a cure then you don't have the illness.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:48:34 2014 No.5752284

>>5751392
It's not something that needs curing.

Nihilism isn't problematic, you've just got this culturally ingrained notion that you "need" some sort of purpose or meaning.

Meaning is a function of communication; where there is no communication there is no meaning.

Purpose is a function of intent; you make your own.

Now go do human things you twit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:58:51 2014 No.5752310 >>5752284 >implying human condition ideology.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:30:40 2014 No.5752409 [DELETED]

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>>5752284

>search for meaning is just cultural ingrained

I think it's part of our human nature to want to make sense of life, and ask "why?"... to be curious about the future, death, etc.

OP I think part of our purpose is to search for the Truth, the "Other", which might very well be God or Enlightenment or Love or whatever... Basically something outside your own desires and will...seek it, find it and then let it subsume you.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:35:34 2014 No.5752425

Tell your parents how much you love about them, and the things they have done that you forgiven about not forgotten.

Walk in bad part of town, with your laptop in full view, make sure you fight or get away.

Find a way to tell your boss to stop doing what you dislike.

find a way to get your teacher to give you a better grade with the same amount of work.

Sprit until you can't anymore and keep going, until something stops working, let it break.

Force a deep conversation with a stranger learn as much as you can about that person.

Hold your breath until you pass out.

Its not that everything is a temporary flee form nihilism, nihilism is a temporary flee of form the real.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:37:28 2014 No.5752434 Join a religion. It's just nihilism, with a facade of meaning.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:48:28 2014 No.5752470 File: 51 KB, 414x441, jhgk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5752434 >religion. It's just nihilism, with a facade of meaning. fedora tipping

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:42:38 2014 No.5753062 >>5752425 is this b8

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:51:28 2014 No.5753099 >>5751392 What of nietzsche did you (mis)read? >>5752470 it wills nothing for the participant it is not nihilism, but in reality it is nihilism because it says No to the struggles of existence

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:59:37 2014 No.5753118 >>5752425 I'm not convinced you know what nihilism is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:01:18 2014 No.5753119 stop caring about it. if you aren't gonna kill yourself, then you might as well be patient.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:03:07 2014 No.5753127

>>5753099

Jesus Christ how do you have such an idiotic notion of religious life?

Have you read anything about religion at all?

I'm so sick of this epic fedora conception of religion as if it's some kind of easy-mode cake-walk for pussies who can't handle the harsh meaninglessness of reality.

This is such garbage. For the devout, religious conversion is an intense period of painful uprooting and self-searching. It's incredibly difficult to bring your life into sync with lofty morals when you've lived like a sinner your whole life.

There are whole books devoted to the art of changing yourself through intense prayer, contemplation etc.

Read some St. John of the Cross, or Ignatius, or Thomas Merton and cut this clown shit out.

Also, the universe doesn't suddenly change when you become religious. It's not like you stop feeling pain, you no longer get lonely, you cease to have questions about life, and you stop giving a fuck when people you love die.

In fact, I think it's a lot fucking easier to just drink around and smoke cigarettes while indulging the fact that you've somehow taken up a cross by erroneously viewing your life from the perspective of some infinite cosmic being, all the while dodging any kind of self-transformation that might require effort or commitment to anything that isn't a bunch of nebulous posturing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:06:24 2014 No.5753138 >>5753127 Nice blog, anon

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:07:40 2014 No.5753147 >>5753127 shut up idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:10:26 2014 No.5753156 >>5753138 >>5753147 Nothing I said was false, and it needed to be said. Kill yourSELF.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:10:37 2014 No.5753158

>>5751392
Nihilism is not a disease but the inescapable condition our time.

There is no cure: there are those who are aware of it and those who fool themselves.

You can be one or the other and it is indifferent, you are both nihilists.

Those who think that there is a way out of it are just deluded.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:12:29 2014 No.5753169

>>5753127
If religion doesn't ease the pain, what's its point then? It's not like it's true either.

You're telling me that religion makes things worse and tells people false things and people /opt to do this shit/?

I think you have the wrong notions of religious life.

Religion is "hard" because it uproots all worldly pleasures and makes one value things which do not exist, always hidden under the veil of "loftiness."

This is so the failures and pains of your shitty life don't seem so bad -- of what little importance is being an ugly prole when heaven awaits!

Religion is not a cakewalk because of what is makes you do -- far from it, it makes you do retarded, terrible, boring-ass shit with your life.
Religion is a cakewalk because it provides misinformation to devalue this life as a way to cope with suffering. It undermines suffering - THAT is why it is a cakewalk.

Suffering should be loved. But this probably sounds awful and crazy to your bitch-ass ears

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:12:40 2014 No.5753170 >>5751573 Analytic philosophy's way of overcoming nihilism: "Let's assume that nihilism is false..."

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:13:50 2014 No.5753176 >>5753158 >Those who think that there is a way out of it are just deluded. you are a miserable pussy assuming everyone else is one too. fuck off if you are ugly you will see the world as ugly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:13:57 2014 No.5753179 >>5753169 >Suffering should be loved. Dude lay off the Linkin' Park albums.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:16:47 2014 No.5753191

>>5753119
that's why i asked.
I can't imagine Sisyphus happy. As much as i try. If you get my drift....
I didn't want to kill myself on a whim but it's been about two years that i have had regular recurring thoughts of suicide and i am (understandably) scared

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:18:28 2014 No.5753200

>>5753176
It's not a question of being a pussy. Nihilism is a consequence of the lack of teleology in the universe. It's a metaphysical condition.
You can be the most strong willed person and you are not going to changes metaphysical condition.
Even if you think that your life has purpose and that the things you love have value and you live according to this they still don't.
You may recognize this or you may deny it, but this won't change the irrelevance of your will.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:18:36 2014 No.5753201

>>5753169

>when heaven awaits!

Yeah, everyone who is religious has a child-like conception of afterlife which totally and completely obscures any trace of difficulty in life or the slightest feeling of mediocrity.

What's it like to live in a shoebox?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:19:02 2014 No.5753204 >>5753170 >"Let's assume that nihilism is false..." How do you logically refute nihilism?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:19:07 2014 No.5753205 >>5753156 check ur pride faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:21:48 2014 No.5753214 >>5753204 You have to re-establish a final cause, which would pretty much go against all of modern science and bring us back to Aristotelian type of science. Nagel tried and everyone laughed at him.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:23:09 2014 No.5753223

>>5753200

This is so pathetic and self-centered it makes me want to puke. You're completely obsessed with your own condition. You're observing your life from the perspective of God and you see yourself as tiny and all your choices as insignificant.

You are not God, you are not the universe. You are a man. You need to realign your perspective to be yours. You do not have to have cosmic significance in order to have significance.

It's that simple.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:26:45 2014 No.5753243

>>5753223
The point is that significance is only given globally or externally. You can always press the question of significance: "why is x significant?" "Because of y" "and why is y significant?" "Because of z." "And why is z significant?" "It isn't because nature is indifferent."

And that's the final answer. Now unless you give to nature consciousness either through some spinozian pantheism or religion the solution is one: nothing is significant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:27:46 2014 No.5753251 >>5753223 How can anything not have cosmic significance? Things are part of the cosmos by definition and significance even in the smallest cause and effect sense must be true...

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:30:02 2014 No.5753260

>>5753243

You can't have a perspective other than yours. Everything you see in life will be seen from your little corner of the universe.

Anything else is imagined. Why are you playing this game of imagining your significance from points of view you do not have? Doesn't it make more sense to just view the world as you actually see it?

When doing this last task, isn't it plainly obvious that there are things you find meaningful?

Why this incessant desire to have your point of view verified by some absolute outside of you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:31:08 2014 No.5753266 >>5753260 you are fucking dumb

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:32:41 2014 No.5753274 >>5753251 It's a term used for convenience. We save ourselves the trouble of defining it and content ourselves with its obvious meaning as a contrast to "individual perspective" or "human perspective"

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:36:34 2014 No.5753299

>>5753266

Or maybe I'm a little older and a little wiser.

You think you're the only one who's had this view of the world, eh? You think you outsmarted everyone else.

When I was 18 I was driven so crazy by my existential discomfort that I bought a plane ticket to the other side of the world and hitch-hiked around the countryside for 6 months, sleeping under the stars, hiking in the woods.

I read Fear and Trembling under a bridge with a little headlamp and looked up and saw where someone had spray-painted a lover's name all over the concrete. I wrote this girl letters and it felt so strange to have someone back home who missed me as much as I missed them. And I was intensely lonely sometimes, not seeing a single person for days, just a kid and unable to cope with it.

I'd just fucking ball my eyes out in my tent when the weather was bad.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:36:58 2014 No.5753302

>>5753260
Just because I enjoy something it doesn't mean that it has value. The ability to take other perspectives is embedded both in language and my ability to empathize and understand other people's theory of mind.

I think it's silly to deny this pluralistic access to the world I ljve just because I want to maintain a notion of significance of my existance.

If anything that's a level of unhealthy solipsism, like the bad artist who does not want to recognize his critics to maintain confidence in the value of his art. No wonder that Nietzsche, a failed musician and poet, pushed this kind of exit from nihilism. Yet he was much more absolute in matters of philosophy where he actually was a genius.

In life like in art the bad artist sees possibilities, while the genius sees only necessity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:38:47 2014 No.5753311 >>5753299 I'm >>5753302 And I'm 29 with a job and married, don't think you are talking to a teenager

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:38:53 2014 No.5753312 >>5753201 what you said is completely true for the vast majority of believers past and present though. Have you even read the divine comedy?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:39:04 2014 No.5753313

read the following books in the following order

1. Kierkegaard - The Sickness Unto Death
2. Plato - Phaedo
3. The New Testament
4. St. Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theologica
5. The Roman Catechism
6. St. John of the Cross - Ascent of Mt. Carmel / Dark Night of the Soul
7. The Philokalia

And never read a book written after the 1600s ever again.

>>5753158
>Nihilism is not a disease but the inescapable condition our time.

There is no such thing as the modern age. The world has not changed in 2000 years. The idea that the world is different now than it was 2000 years ago is a delusion and an excuse not to worship the true God of all ages because, "I can't worship God, God is not present in the modern age and I am a modernist".

> Nihilism is a consequence of the lack of teleology in the universe. It's a metaphysical condition.

There is teleology in the Universe. Anyone can see that who is not wilfully blind.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:39:39 2014 No.5753316 >>5753302 What does the word "value" mean to you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:40:54 2014 No.5753326 >>5753311 You're 29 and married and you're this full of shit? I'm sorry but I honestly thought I was talking to a 16 year old. This is sad. I'm outta here. (PS: I'm not religious)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:42:25 2014 No.5753333 >>5753316 Having a place in a vertical hierarchical order where what is on top is better than what is on bottom.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:43:14 2014 No.5753340 >>5753333 Would you say that enjoying something is better than not enjoying it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:43:27 2014 No.5753341 >>5753326 What can I say? I aged well.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:44:09 2014 No.5753349 >>5751499 You'll eventually find meaning in these "distractions". It's either this or you'll stay forever stuck in this pseudo crisis God, I fucking hate nihilists. Always acting like edgy fourteen year old.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:44:48 2014 No.5753351

>>5753223
>>5753260
this niggas got it

>>5753266
you havent overturned metaphysics you retarded-ass pleb nigga

>>5753201
you named christian authors, I assumed you respected christianity

>>5753200
>metaphysical condishun
this is a part of nihilism
stop believing metaphysical conditions exist

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:44:58 2014 No.5753352 >>5753299 why should i care about your journey faggot? glad you think it all means something. go fuck yourself though, that's all you've done so far.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:46:10 2014 No.5753360 play games. that's really all it is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:46:24 2014 No.5753362 >>5753299 nope, you are just a moron

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:46:34 2014 No.5753363 >>5753351 >you named christian authors, I assumed you respected christianity Sarcasm to the max. I have nothing but deep respect for anybody who lives what they've discovered with seriousness and intense devotion, be it mathematics or monasticism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:46:40 2014 No.5753365 >>5753340 It depends. The question is better for what? If your goal is to have fun enjoying cake is better than not enjoying. If your goal is to loose weight you better not enjoy it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:48:32 2014 No.5753372 >>5753313 So what is the goal of the universe?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:48:43 2014 No.5753374 >>5753363 how about paedophilia? You respect someone who devotedly lives the life he has chosen for himself as a child molester? Haha. In all seriousness though, you're full of shit

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:49:32 2014 No.5753377

>>5753365

Factoring in the various ways in which one might not enjoy or enjoy, do we not come out with a net result that is more or less enjoyable than another?

I'll save you the trouble. Your definition of "value" clearly pertains to pleasure/pain since one can easily plot various instances of pleasure plane along a "vertical hierarchical order."

This clearly contradicts your statement that "Just because I enjoy something doesn't mean it has value."

And this is was so blatant and easy to pick out that I'm pretty sure you've never thought about any of this for more then ten minutes.

I'm excited to see what kind of bizarre sophistry you come up with to weasel your way out of this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:49:46 2014 No.5753380 >>5753372 To show and to participate in the glory of God.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:51:13 2014 No.5753387

>>5753352

Not that anon but glancing over this thread I see that threads like these are always ruined by angst-ridden people like you without fail.

Why should anyone listen to you if you can't even divorce yourself from your angst long enough to get your point across? Do you really think you have a temperate understanding here?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:52:26 2014 No.5753394 >>5753380 But God doesn't exist.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:53:02 2014 No.5753401

>>5753372

Who gives a fuck what the goal of the universe is. You're not a universe. You're a person. More precisely, you're you. More precisely, you're an assemblage of events and qualities giving rise to thing you call self.

Strictly speaking there's no single goal. There are a lot of goals that constantly change from moment to moment, often several at once and in conflicting directions (I want to eat the cake but I want to have it too!).

If we step back for a moment we can find a pretty easy ad hoc goal to work towards. Lessen suffering, increase joy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:53:03 2014 No.5753402 >>5753387 fuck you. i'm not angsty. that's you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:54:18 2014 No.5753408 >>5753191 pls respond guise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:54:18 2014 No.5753409 >>5753401 "shut your proud mouth, faggot" saith the lord.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:54:35 2014 No.5753410

>>5753377
But not everyone values enjoyment. For example some people may want to suffer or consider obtaining a particular goal as more important than their individual suffering.

As Nietzsche said: only the Englishmen live for pleasure.

Pleasure may be a driving force, but is not the only one. You still have to give a reason why pleasure should be the goal.

Ps. I have a phd in philosophy, I assure you I spent several years thinking of these things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:55:07 2014 No.5753415 >>5751392 Stirner and/or Gestalt Therapy

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:55:37 2014 No.5753417 >>5753410 HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHA A HAHAHAHHA A HA HA >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:55:53 2014 No.5753419

>>5753408
hey dumbass. if you are looking at sisyphus from outside, then yeah he seems unhappy. which is why the gods gave him that as a punishment. but the gods are fucking idiots and they also aren't human so what the fuck do they know? you are sisyphus, okay? and you are happy sometimes. there ya go.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:56:13 2014 No.5753423

>>5753401
>Who gives a fuck what the goal of the universe is. You're not a universe. You're a person.

Every man participates in the cosmos, so if the cosmos has no purpose then man has no purpose by extension.

> You're a person. More precisely, you're you. More precisely, you're an assemblage of events and qualities giving rise to thing you call self.

Wrong. Plato dismantled the idea that the soul is a harmony.

>Strictly speaking there's no single goal.

Yes there is.

>There are a lot of goals that constantly change from moment to moment, often several at once and in conflicting directions (I want to eat the cake but I want to have it too!).

That is not teleology, it is desire.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:56:30 2014 No.5753425 >>5753401 >You're not a universe. You're a person. This categorical diminishing is one of the great sicknesses of empiricism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:56:48 2014 No.5753430 >>5753401 > o we're but animals with many simple and petty goals that involve living day to day as it comes. We should be slaves to our survival instinct Wow i feel so inspired to live life to the fullest

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:58:36 2014 No.5753434 >>5753419 wow you both failed to make a joke and failed to answer my question. Thanks

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:59:05 2014 No.5753440 File: 684 KB, 2550x3300, oldtroll.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5753410 HAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHHAHA HAHAHAH A>>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 >>5753410 BHAHAHAHAH AH BAHHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAH

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:59:19 2014 No.5753442 >>5753380 So we should all devote ourselves to the monastic life? I think I can get on that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:59:53 2014 No.5753447 >>5753434 wasn't a joke you fucking idiot. fuck off faggot. i answered your question perfectly. camus illustrated that you are sisyphus and you do experience happiness when you watch the stone roll back down

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:00:25 2014 No.5753449

>>5753423
>> You're a person. More precisely, you're you. More precisely, you're an assemblage of events and qualities giving rise to thing you call self.

this formulation is basically just regurgitated Buddhist "no-self" otherwise known as "anatman" otherwise known as "no soul" otherwise known as this shit has nothing to do with a soul at all and I'm pretty sure Plato didn't know fuck all about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:02:08 2014 No.5753460 >>5753408 Find or refine a hobby of yours.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:02:12 2014 No.5753461

this thread is a nice showcasing of the difficulties that young bright men face in a spiritually schizophrenic age where there is no ritual and no tradition. they want to remove any connection to the past because they feel too lost in traversing the current waters of capitalist shit and endless dread. so they choose nihilism, it's a functional and useful tabula rasa.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:02:34 2014 No.5753464 >>5753447 maintaining that you are happy when you know you are not is just as delusional as maintaining you will get 72 browneyed virgins when you blow yourself up. I used "imagine Sisyphus happy" figuratively. In the same was camus did.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:02:47 2014 No.5753465 >>5753461 thanks, fucker.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:03:26 2014 No.5753468

>>5753442
>So we should all devote ourselves to the monastic life?

Probably. Even if you're not a monk you should strive to be as dead to the world as you can be.

>>5753449
Of course Plato knew all about it. Plato dealt with every sophism there has ever been. I'm not exaggerating.
That metaphysics that "all is flux" is today called nominalism. Plato dealt with it. The idea that the soul is harmony between our bodily parts and that once our bodily parts are destroyed the harmony that is the soul dissolves Plato called "the opinion of the masses" in regards to the soul

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:04:17 2014 No.5753478 >>5753464 despite all that shit, knowing he is being punished and knowing it is delusional etc. etc. sisyphus is still happy sometimes, says camus.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:06:04 2014 No.5753491 >>5753401 You got it backwards, the goal is: to increase suffering, lessen joy.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:07:04 2014 No.5753495

>>5753468
>. Plato dealt with every sophism there has ever been. I'm not exaggerating.

And if you think this is impossible it is because you do not understand the nature of sophistry. There are really only three sophistries, and every sophistry is just a modification of one or more of these basic three, viz. 1. nothing exists, 2. even if something exists, nothing can be known about it, 3. even if something exists and something can be known about it, it is impossible to communicate such knowledge. Ever sophism from before Plato's time to the current age is just one or more of these; the only thing that changes is how they are stated, and the difference between ancient Greek sophists and modern sophists is that the Greeks were a lot more blunt and clear in their language, whereas the moderns are better at hiding behind a cloud of rhetoric.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:07:40 2014 No.5753499

>>5753478
I'm happy after a good shag.
I'm happy after a nice steak.
I'm happy smoking a fat cigar.
I'm happy drinking fine wine.
Is that it?
Is that all there is to live for?
Is 50 cent the most enlightened philosopher of our time?

GET RICH OR DIE TRYING MUFUGGA

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:07:47 2014 No.5753504 >>5753468 In a way I agree. Contemptu mundi and an aesthetic appreciation of the abstract and tradition is pretty much my way of living. Are you part of any church?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:09:04 2014 No.5753507 >>5753491 Monsieur le Marquise! I did not recognize you, it is an indecent pleasure to have you among us!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:09:45 2014 No.5753510 >>5753499 read eccelesiastes, king solomon already explained every facet of this argument about a million years ago. the happiness is real but also hollow. so go fuck yourself, i guess.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:10:22 2014 No.5753512

>>5753504
I want to be a Catholic but I can't get my head around Vatican II and the sedevacantist thesis.
Eastern Orthodox monasticism seems good but in my heart of heart I believe in the papacy and the Catholic Church, and I can't honestly join any other church.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:10:39 2014 No.5753515 >>5753510 Ecclesiastes is a book of staggering poetic force.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:11:54 2014 No.5753518 >>5753512 I don't think I could be Catholic without Vatican II.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:12:45 2014 No.5753521

I never get tired of posting this.

Seek not death in the error of your life, neither procure ye destruction by the works of your hands. For God made not death, neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. For he created all things that they might be: and he made the nations of the earth for health: and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor kingdom of hell upon the earth. For justice is perpetual and immortal.

But the wicked with works and words have called it to them: and esteeming it a friend have fallen away, and have made a covenant with it: because they are worthy to be of the part thereof.

For they have said, reasoning with themselves, but not right: The time of our life is short and tedious, and in the end of a man there is no remedy, and no man hath been known to have returned from hell: For we are born of nothing, and after this we shall be as if we had not been: for the breath in our nostrils is smoke: and speech a spark to move our heart, Which being put out, our body shall be ashes, and our spirit shall be poured abroad as soft air, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, which is driven away by the beams of the sun, and overpowered with the heat thereof: And our name in time shall be forgotten, and no man shall have any remembrance of our works. For our time is as the passing of a shadow, and there is no going back of our end: for it is fast sealed, and no man returneth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:12:54 2014 No.5753522 >>5753510 ok. I have read the bible btw. I while back admittedly but i disagree with you btw. We've already covered this ITT. In fact Kierkegaard covered it far better than ecclesiastes

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:13:27 2014 No.5753525 >>5753522 covered what

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:13:36 2014 No.5753528 find a girl, make a baby, educate him/her.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:13:57 2014 No.5753531

>>5753521
Come therefore, and let us enjoy the good things that are present, and let us speedily use the creatures as in youth. Let us fill ourselves with costly wine, and ointments: and let not the flower of the time pass by us. Let us crown ourselves with roses, before they be withered: let no meadow escape our riot. Let none of us go without his part in luxury: let us everywhere leave tokens of joy: for this is our portion, and this our lot. Let us oppress the poor just man, and not spare the widow, nor honour the ancient grey hairs of the aged.

But let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble, is found to be nothing worth. Let us therefore lie in wait for the just, because he is not for our turn, and he is contrary to our doings, and upbraideth us with transgressions of the law, and divulgeth against us the sins of our way of life. He boasteth that he hath the knowledge of God, and calleth himself the son of God. He is become a censurer of our thoughts. He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men' s, and his ways are very different.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:14:14 2014 No.5753533 >>5753528 stop endlessly angstposting you soppy mope

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:14:58 2014 No.5753542

>>5753531
We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. Let us see then if his words be true, and let us prove what shall happen to him, and we shall know what his end shall be. For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies. Let us examine him by outrages and tortures, that we may know his meekness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a most shameful death: for there shall be respect had unto him by his words.

These things they thought, and were deceived: for their own malice blinded them. And they knew not the secrets of God, nor hoped for the wages of justice, nor esteemed the honour of holy souls. For God created man incorruptible, and to the image of his own likeness he made him. But by the envy of the devil, death came into the world: And they follow him that are of his side.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:15:06 2014 No.5753544 >>5753525 "every facet of this argument"

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:15:15 2014 No.5753547

>>5753512
I find myself in a similar position.
The orthodox church is fascinating but it also seems too Asian, and as such incapable of fulling understanding the negative at work in the world. That's why I feel that it has a poor relationship with history. But at the same time I find it hard to get into Catholicism. Jesuits are way too modern, while opus day way too anti-intellectual and philistine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:15:48 2014 No.5753549 >>5751392 >cure Its not a disease, its a philosophical ideology...Its just a really bad one.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:16:05 2014 No.5753550 Suck a dick maybe, that's what nichilist faggots do.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:16:54 2014 No.5753554 >>5753549 As philosophy goes it's a very good one. What is the alternative to it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:16:56 2014 No.5753555 >>5753518 why's that?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:17:49 2014 No.5753559 >>5753547 >opus day Ahaha

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:18:58 2014 No.5753564 >>5753544 okay, if you can show me something kierkegaard pointed out that solomon didn't then i'm all ears

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:18:59 2014 No.5753565 >>5753549 >nihilism >ideology Are you retarded?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:19:09 2014 No.5753567 >>5753559 What about it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:20:18 2014 No.5753575 >>5753559 Haha I didn't read, wonders of autocorrect

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:20:27 2014 No.5753577 >>5753567 It's opus dei

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:21:21 2014 No.5753587 >>5753542 good shit, you stupid fucker.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:21:32 2014 No.5753588 >>5753564 oh go suck a ding dong

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:23:14 2014 No.5753594 >>5753588 yeah you can suck my ding dong all day silly faggot

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:23:30 2014 No.5753595

>>5753547
Well, my wanting to be Catholic has nothing to do with this Order or that Order, and I am as skeptical about the Jesuits as you are.

I want to be a Catholic because I want to worship God and I am certain that it is the very same Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded. It's not a matter of picking which brand suits me the best; to think like that is to essentially be a liberal. I don't have any choice in the matter; I want to be Catholic because I believe that's what God wants everyone to be. Also, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:25:27 2014 No.5753607 >>5753595 tell us more, proud faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:25:59 2014 No.5753609 >>5753607 what do you want to know?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:28:16 2014 No.5753620 >>5752211 What if depression comes from the realization of nihilism though?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:28:42 2014 No.5753621

>>5753595
Yeah, I'm not a man of faith. My is more a quest to find a community where to realize the possibility for a calling (for lack of a certain word). A remembrance of an absolute idea that I find in art and the tradition. But I have only this "memory" this intuition calling me, I find its traces in the world and no idea of its content. If you want to advise any text I'll read it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:40:36 2014 No.5753680 Good ol´ Jean Paul?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:41:53 2014 No.5753688 >>5753680 see >>5751499

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:42:50 2014 No.5753692 >ctrl+f Sartre >ctrl+f existentialism >0 results I thought you guys were educated?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:42:54 2014 No.5753694

>>5753621
well I'm not well read so there isn't much I can suggest

however, I would recommend the Confessions and the City of God of St. Augustine . . . your statement reminds me of a few passages from St. Augustine, like these:

>Late have I loved you, O Beauty ever ancient, ever new, late have I loved you! You were within me, but I was outside, and it was there that I searched for you. In my unloveliness I plunged into the lovely things which you created. You were with me, but I was not with you. Created things kept me from you; yet if they had not been in you they would have not been at all. You called, you shouted, and you broke through my deafness. You flashed, you shone, and you dispelled my blindness. You breathed your fragrance on me; I drew in breath and now I pant for you. I have tasted you, now I hunger and thirst for more. You touched me, and I burned for your peace.

>The very thing that is now called the Christian religion was not wanting among the ancients from the beginning of the human race, until Christ came in the flesh, after which the true religion, which had already existed, began to be called “Christian".

I also read this book by a Protestant a while back that I found interesting
http://ldolphin.org/cooper/contents.html

Also, pay attention of chapters 23 and onwards from this book of the City of God
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120108.htm

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:43:54 2014 No.5753702

>>5753694
also these
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeII/CelestialHierarchy.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/albert/cleaving.html
http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf
http://holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Philokalia.pdf

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:45:21 2014 No.5753711 >>5753692 Existentialism has been proven wrong though

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:46:10 2014 No.5753716 >>5753692 see >>5753688

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:46:39 2014 No.5753718 >>5753692 >reading sartre >reading french

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:49:10 2014 No.5753732 >>5753711 oh really. Wow. How could i have missed the headline? Which newspaper reported it first? >existentialism is a hypothesis which can be proven wrong.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:49:16 2014 No.5753733

>>5753702
also, comment:

there is an ancient tradition that is largely lost
to be more precise, there are two ancient traditions that run counter to one and other.
one is based on idolatry and the other on worship of God Almighty.
that might seem an overly-simple view of history, but trust me there's much more to what I've said than meets the eye

read this book
https://ia600301.us.archive.org/28/items/EustaceMullins-TheCurseOfCanaanADemonologyOfHistory1987/EustaceMullins-TheCurseOfCanaanADemonologyOfHistory1987.pdf

You have to read this book carefully because frankly a great deal of it is wrong/misguided. However, there is a central truth contained in the work if you can see past the author's silly opinions and biases.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:11:15 2014 No.5753835 >>5753692 sartre is fucking shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:20:34 2014 No.5753869 >>5752206 Is Pepe a twenty-first century Diogenes?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:22:02 2014 No.5753876 >tfw people take nihilism as some vulgar concept about thinking your own personal life is just meaningless ennui >tfw no one ever grasps nietzsche's nihilism in its complete joyful terror Y'all gotta get some derrida in your lives.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:23:58 2014 No.5753887 >>5753876 derrida tried to restart the french enlightenment project and for that i cant forgive him.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:25:26 2014 No.5753891 >>5753876 Nietzsche's nihilism is certainly not joyful, rather numb and unthreatened.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:29:05 2014 No.5753905

>>5753891
The lack of an immutable center to the structure of all meaning is both terrifying and joyful. We can play with meaning and simulataneously never control it or pin it down. Interpretation leads to only more interpretation.

There is no light at the end if the tunnel, just a grand complex of tunnels that most stumble through.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:30:12 2014 No.5753911 >>5751499 grow up

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:32:40 2014 No.5753918 >>5753876 fuck that clement rosset ftw

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:32:41 2014 No.5753919 >>5753911 Seriously. The worst of nietzsche's readers aren't the atheist edge lords but the bored 20something year old male who distorts the fucking biggest shakedown in philosophy to justify why he's sad.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:33:03 2014 No.5753922 >>5752211 This.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:35:30 2014 No.5753932 >>5753919 i don't know how any one could interpret a philosophy which explicitly endorses an absolute affirmation of reality as justification for sorrow.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:40:53 2014 No.5753953 >>5753932 you're a dumbass. nietzsche preaches that one must seek out the hardest, shittiest life.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:42:26 2014 No.5753962 >>5753932 Look at this camel. >>5753953

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:44:47 2014 No.5753976

>>5753905
But that's not Nietzsche's nihilism. Nietzsche's nihilism is giving up any search for value (it's about value more than meaning) and settle for comfort instead. That's why he denounced it.

We could talk about wether Nietzsche advocated some form of nihilism in the loose sense, but since he used that precise word to refer to something else we should use it with caution.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:45:31 2014 No.5753979 I'm not at all versed in the actual philosophy of nihilism or its existential brethren, so I probably sound like a fucking idiot, but I've always thought of the idea of there being no inherent meaning or purpose within existence as very freeing.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:45:37 2014 No.5753980

>>5753953
lol,where did I say he wants people to strive for comfort?

'to all human beings for whom i have cocern i wish nothing but hardship, sickness etc'

but that does not exclude the fact that he extolled the affirmation of life, warts and all, that is the whole point of the eternal return, of the 'da capo da capo'.

what I am saying here is what the fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:45:49 2014 No.5753981 >>5753962 you're a stupid faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:46:01 2014 No.5753983 >>5753953 Hardest perhaps, shittiest certainly not. Diogenes' life was hard, not shitty (by Nietzsche's account it was one of the greatest ever lived), Napoleon's life was challenging, not shitty, Goethe's life was exhausting, not shitty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:47:23 2014 No.5753986 >>5753983 yeah, well fuck you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:48:42 2014 No.5753987 >>5753976 That's passive nihilism. See active nihilism, the creative/destructive force.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:50:11 2014 No.5753994 >>5753979 It is, but if you're not terrified by it simultaneously then you're not considering its full implications.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:51:15 2014 No.5753998 >>5753981 See, the answer is that they don't even read nietzsche. Three metamorphoses son.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:52:38 2014 No.5754003 >>5753987 I'm just saying be careful when you say "Nietzsche's nihilism". Note also that creating your own values isn't precisely nihilism, even if it demands to overcome older systems of value.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:53:45 2014 No.5754006 >>5753986 How can you fuck me when I've already cummed inside your ass ?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:54:48 2014 No.5754011 >>5753313 I love seeing this shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:55:06 2014 No.5754014 >>5753869 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:56:13 2014 No.5754019 I hate these nihilism threads, they're filled to the brim with ad hominem and the meaningless justification of their own values as some sort of counter argument.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:59:48 2014 No.5754026 >>5754019 ad hominem is a perfectly cogent response to many flavors of nihilism. how would you dispute it indirectly? with some kinda extra-personal framework that deems ad hominem always and everywhere bad?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:02:25 2014 No.5754033 >>5754003 Nihilism is the condition of possibility for the creation of meaning. Without it, interpretation becomes base "scientific" rationality couched in terms of discovering immutable centers for structures of meaning.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:05:33 2014 No.5754045 File: 2.56 MB, 580x323, hot_and_spicy_tears.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5753313

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:12:00 2014 No.5754068 >>5753994 and what are "its full implications"?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:12:58 2014 No.5754072 File: 65 KB, 848x480, mfw dirt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5753313 >>5753313 >There is teleology in the Universe. Anyone can see that who is not wilfully blind. And now I finally see

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:15:13 2014 No.5754078 >>5754033 So you say. Scientific or scientismatic rationality is not the only system providing or searching for "centerof meaning".

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:30:03 2014 No.5754118
File: 47 KB, 628x353, Willow-e1363032759980.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I also think living for the glory of god is a worthwhile reason.

We live in a universe beyond out understanding, with much beauty and complexity and ugliness. We have our own place in it.

But we all have love for something.

I love when my NEET friends and I make a nice play in League of Legends and win the match. It's part of the beauty of existence. That we can feel joy. That it is possible to have creation in us. We have ideas, and we can make things.

I don't know about the jew on a stick religions...seems like a scam...but to deny that the universe is very interesting and worth exploring seems to be pretty butthurt (though I suppose you could have justification if your life sucks enough).

For me I spend most of my time moderately miserable, but there are moments, like when I complete a project and feel that accomplishment and pride, when I see an extremely beautiful girl somewhere and think how it is possible for such things to exist, when my dog who loves me cozies up to me and falls asleep, the time I made out with a girl and I could tell she was getting so much pleasure from it, smoking a cigarette with my best friend when I was drunk...we all have to decide if it is worth it or not, but I feel lucky I have gotten to experience life.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:30:14 2014 No.5754120 >>5754006 because fuck you, idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:31:17 2014 No.5754127 >>5753998 yeah, well fuck you idiot. nietzsche was a fucking moron too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:35:14 2014 No.5754141 >>5754120 Can you repeat ? I can't hear you over my cum dripping from your sweaty arsehole. I don't think I've expulsed that much seminal fluid in a long time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:39:06 2014 No.5754147 File: 59 KB, 500x410, 1415227204624.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5754118 >jew on a stick religions...seems like a scam >I spend most of my time moderately miserable

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:49:09 2014 No.5754182
File: 61 KB, 680x554, 1398360452627.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5754118
You are my brother and that's that. You feel the way I do. If anyone on 4chan can feel at this depth, that is enough.

I don't care if you're male, I'm in love with you. Let us live.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:50:28 2014 No.5754183 >>5754141 you're a stupid fucking idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:49:37 2014 No.5754372 >>5754147 Those white characters really get in the way when I'm trying to look at that painting. Fucking beautiful though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:59:20 2014 No.5754409 >>5754183 Im' indeed fucking, and was I am fucking is you asshole getting bigger by the thrust.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:59:47 2014 No.5754412 >>5751879 >the realist conviction that there is a mind-independent reality Go to bed, Brassier. And take speculative realism with you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:02:06 2014 No.5754417 >>5751392 if you believe in nihilism you believe in something. ergo, the believe in nihilism is to strong to be nihilistic. i cured your nihilism. nobody can be a pure nihilist without believing in nihilism and this is more than pure nihilism QED

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:07:24 2014 No.5754436 learn to laugh at how miserable we all are

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:07:46 2014 No.5754437 >>5754417 But that's not how nihilism works, that's not how any of it works!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:09:53 2014 No.5754445 File: 20 KB, 235x210, jgjfjfj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5754437 >wat please elaborate, i want to get your point

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:15:08 2014 No.5754464 >>5753191 sisyphus is miserable fuck just like the rest of us, why the fuck should he be allowed happiness and not us? BTW the cure to nihilism is opiates and bensos

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:44:27 2014 No.5754555

>>5754445
Nihilism is basically a product of modernity. In antiquity thought would try to justify itself by developing an ethics in accordance with the order of the world.

Modern science showed a world without any goal so the work of knowledge became finalized to control it.

But control does not equate neither with truth nor with goodness, but only with power. And that is why nihilism is inescapable, because power is the only game available.

So nihilism is not actually believing nothing (the original nihilists were positivists) but believing only through power. That is all you believe you believe it either because it increases your power (it works) or because you have enough power to will your belief.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:28:14 2014 No.5755141
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>>5753127
>drink and smoke cigarettes
alright anon, because we all do that, it helps us smash that stereotype further up our assholes like you trick people so you can fiddle with their kids and their wallets, you vapid cunt, yes I have just insulted you :^) and no, that doesn't mean you won, I'm able to hurt your feelings so I am going to because of your falseness

>>	fagve Fri Nov 21 00:41:17 2014 No.5755182 Nihilism or Pantheism are the only logical beliefs to hold, why cute it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:57:23 2014 No.5755224 File: 64 KB, 510x640, 1416543682493.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5751499

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 01:10:46 2014 No.5755262 >>5751392 Why Gainsbourg?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 01:38:56 2014 No.5755318 >>5751392 Read Jacques Maritain Existence and the Existent. You're welcome.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:17:26 2014 No.5755377
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>>5751392

Keep on living. You see, one day we might find out that god is real, or that there's a reason to it all. You want to be around for that, don't you?

I may not believe in anything, but that doesn't mean that I can't be convinced otherwise. Life can still be filled with zest for knowledge, you never know what we'll uncover in the future.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:20:59 2014 No.5755393 >ctrl+f >no meditations by marcus aurelius wtf is wrong with you all

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:23:19 2014 No.5755403 >>5755393 More like meditations by marcus plebeus

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:29:49 2014 No.5755433 >>5755393 Stoicism doesn't cure nihilism it just helps you deal with it when you haven't fully shaken it off. Stoicism within itself is equally as dull.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:40:17 2014 No.5755470 temper >>5752425 stoicism with >>5751417 compassion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 02:46:41 2014 No.5755494 >>5755393 >>5752425 >>5753360

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:20:02 2014 No.5755596 >>5753980 It's not "da capo da capo" Get your music terminology right

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:23:49 2014 No.5755605 >>5755393 Meditations won't cure Nihilism. I'm not sure how you could "cure" Nihilism, anyways.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:24:20 2014 No.5755608 >>5755605 >. I'm not sure how you could "cure" Nihilism By being intelligent.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:32:02 2014 No.5755639 >>5755608 faggotass muthafuga

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:33:22 2014 No.5755643 Cure for nihilism: absurdism

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:34:29 2014 No.5755645 >>5755608 AKA "believe what I believe"

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:36:53 2014 No.5755654 Accept nothingnees and live in spite of it Kill yourself Or Give yourself meaning

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:38:43 2014 No.5755660 >>5751392 What did you read by Nietzsche? And maybe try Camus or some other existentialism. You're probably not edgy enough for Nietzsche and existentialism is the next step down.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:40:16 2014 No.5755665

Haven't read the thread yet but...

Suicide.

It's the only end. You can't rekindle a faith in humanity without a concentrated guided trip on shrooms or something.

I feel like nihilism and pessimism are things that you never completely get over. You may grow up and think you were just being edgy, but you'll still kinda think the worst of humanity in the back of your mind.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:41:51 2014 No.5755670 >>5755643 Fucking this

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:47:26 2014 No.5755681 >>5753313 ayy lmao. Congrats contributing nothing christfag.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:52:30 2014 No.5755692 >>5755643 >>5755670 Not really a cure so much as a coping mechanism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 03:57:26 2014 No.5755709 >>5755692 So what is the final solution if it is just a coping mechanism?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 04:01:23 2014 No.5755719 >>5755709 Nietzsche or maybe Kierkegaard if you have the stomach for either of them. But I doubt OP is religious or wants to be and he has already stated Nietzsche hasn't helped.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 05:01:39 2014 No.5755808 turn to the buddha

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 05:15:08 2014 No.5755829 >>5751392 meditate. Helps you getting out of the downwardspiral of negative thought.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 06:26:29 2014 No.5755951 >>5751392 Facing Death by James Warren

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:12:53 2014 No.5756048 >>5751521 There are more ways out of it than that. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Confession/VII

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:15:02 2014 No.5756053

>>5753158
>You can be one or the other and it is indifferent, you are both nihilists.
How fucking stupid are you? Nihilism is a philosophical stance, how the fuck could a deluded optimist be a nihilist?

I guess you meant that life is useless despite your delusions, but that was a really poor way of wording it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:16:16 2014 No.5756057 >>5753251 >and significance even in the smallest cause and effect sense must be true... There is no meaning or significance in cause and effect, it only IS.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:18:20 2014 No.5756064

>>5753313
>There is teleology in the Universe. Anyone can see that who is not wilfully blind.
Cool claim, where is your proof? "Muh feels"? Faggot.
>The idea that the world is different now than it was 2000 years ago is a delusion and an excuse not to worship the true God of all ages because, "I can't worship God, God is not present in the modern age and I am a modernist".
You had me until "an excuse not to worship God", you sure are a spineless fuck if you need to obey the imagined commands of a fictitious "all-powerful" being created by a couple of emperors who wanted more power to themselves.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:19:44 2014 No.5756072 >>5755608 >By being intelligent. >implying intellgence makes life meaningful You are a self-deluded turd, I wish Schopenhauer could be revived only to beat you to death for your stupidity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:21:22 2014 No.5756075 Meh youre just a bitch that cant make money... The meaning of life is making money and acquiring top shelf goods a services. If you cant keep up....good. Fuck off bitch boy ill grab that paper you too "busy" to grab

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:24:36 2014 No.5756081 Just stay really healthy and live on in case something awesome happens like aliens or ww3

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:42:04 2014 No.5756106 >>5756075 Ok fiddy cent. Enjoy your mindless consumerism

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 07:58:14 2014 No.5756126

>>5756053
He is a nihilist because he is an optimist not because of any way the world is, but because of his will.
He wants to be an optimist, he has the power to be an optimist, so he is an optimist, it's all will to power.
He is just an active nihilist.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 08:01:11 2014 No.5756134

Take control! The universe is your oyster, that's what all children are taught throughout school. Aren't you surprised in the slightest that anything exists at all? Does the simple notion of existence not fill you with vigour enough to be the master of your own beliefs? You cannot afford to be intimidated by the cosmos, it is your duty to explore its possibilities even if you do not believe them - a disinterest for meaning and purpose in the universe is a disinterest for the universe. Life unveils itself to you - beautifully - and you divert your eyes? Have you not seen nature?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 08:04:22 2014 No.5756136 >>5756134 But taking control is the apex of nihilism. The translation of every relation into a relationship of power is the ultimate conclusion of nihilism.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 11:58:35 2014 No.5756578

>>5753374
Not that guy but yeah.
If someone decides that their purpose in life is to fuck kids and he does it then i would respect him.
I think everyone else has the full right to stop him, as would i, but i dont feel any hate or disgust towards him.
If you feel like you want to murder or rape or main or sing songs or stop people from doing anything that i have listed then do it.
Why not?
If nothing matters then you might as well do what you want.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 12:02:39 2014 No.5756595 >>5756578 you should at least respect another's want to not suffer. Whether it means anything or not is irrelevant

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 12:55:23 2014 No.5756740 >>5756595 >you should at least respect another's want to not suffer. Why?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 15:20:59 2014 No.5757119 >>5754412 Brassier is the only continental standing up to SR, you humongous retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 15:25:34 2014 No.5757136 >>5755393 >reading a dead roman's blog will make the universe teleological again

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 15:53:57 2014 No.5757219 >>5756136 shut the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 16:04:08 2014 No.5757247 >>5757119 Ray Brassier is also one of the few actually intelligent philosophers we have left.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 16:07:27 2014 No.5757266 >>5751392 This one isn't about reading op its about goin out and living in the gnarliest way possible. You have to get close to death to see the beauty in life.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 17:18:25 2014 No.5757486 >>5757266 >You have to get close to death to see the beauty in life. Erotic asphyxiation then?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 18:41:28 2014 No.5757845 >>5753127 one of the few intelligent posts on religion i've seen on this shit board 10/10 quality bro

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:07:55 2014 No.5757941 >>5753176 >if you are ugly you will see the world as ugly. what a faggot

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:12:26 2014 No.5757962 >>5751559 >nihilism >a belief that's like coming on a literature board and not actually reading

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:12:45 2014 No.5757965 >ITT people that are genius and find a way to comfort themselves to be stupid as most people.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:14:36 2014 No.5757975 Why is nihilism something that needs curing?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:18:43 2014 No.5757991 >>5757975 You will understand once you get out of High School.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:19:17 2014 No.5757995 >>5753377 >trying to become socrates

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:21:17 2014 No.5758001 >>5757991 I'm not sure how to respond to that because I'm 20 years old and not in high school at the moment.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:39:09 2014 No.5758052 File: 37 KB, 534x547, 1415490713317.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5757965 Ignorance is bliss. But how can be comfort?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 19:47:03 2014 No.5758075 >>5754409 moron.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 04:10:57 2014 No.5759489 What the fuck is this thread Also, why is any argument for atheism met with fedora.jpg, but then you people turn around and shit on the religious?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 04:13:16 2014 No.5759492 Stoicism

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 04:32:44 2014 No.5759528 theory of use you need to grow up first

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 06:20:08 2014 No.5759709 >>5756126 >He wants to be an optimist, he has the power to be an optimist, so he is an optimist, it's all will to power. What are you trying to say with this? That you create a delusion doesn't make it true.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 06:22:51 2014 No.5759713 >>5759492 Just another delusion. Tolstoy said it best in this chapter: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Confession/VII

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 06:36:05 2014 No.5759734 >>5756072 I never said that, just that no one intelligent and noteworthy is a nihilist. It is the philosophy of utter morons.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 06:37:57 2014 No.5759737 >>5759489 Because there are multiple posters you idiot. Contrary to popular solipsistic opinions running in academic circles these days, 4chan is not really just two people: there are actually quite a few people posting at the same time.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 06:40:28 2014 No.5759740

>>5759734
>I never said that, just that no one intelligent and noteworthy is a nihilist
No one is a nihilist, only those who misunderstand what the word means claim to be nihilists.

>It is the philosophy of utter morons.
It is the philosophy of dead men, because only in the grave is everything valueless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 07:38:55 2014 No.5759819 >>5755224 this pretty much still, probably you don't want to hear this but most of that nihilism is depression that is part chemical part your expectations on life. So get some exercise, try some drugs/therapy, spend more time with friends and family

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 12:25:44 2014 No.5760398 File: 253 KB, 720x404, 903457.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5759740

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 12:39:11 2014 No.5760426 Read the Discourses of Epictetus, and read folklore from the area where you live. Read superhero comic books. Recognize yourself as embedded in the culture in which you live, but also attempt to cultivate virtue as much as possible.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 13:59:12 2014 No.5760642

>>5759709
Exactly. But the nihilist doesn't care about what is true or not, s/he cares only about what they will.
The optimist is a nihilist because he doesn't care if he has any rational basis to be an optimist, he just wants to be it because it makes him feel good and he will ignore or silence any opinion that disagrees with his.

Ironically people that are concerned with nihilism are the least nihilistic ones because they are the few that still remember the distinction between nihilism and non-nihilism.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:03:28 2014 No.5760655

You know, I think this problem is pretty simple, and Nietzsche, with his genus writing style, makes it a bit more complex to just show how simplistic it really is, if that makes sense. Shifting between satire and seriousness, but never insouciant about the problem.

It is a problem though, but it's simple: realize that reality is a constant battlefield of wills, and that your will, if you wish to conquer or have a reasonable impact on the world, must be very strong. You are under no one's dominion.

"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:04:23 2014 No.5760660

>>5759819
My God, pure ideology.
It has both the extreme medicalization of dissent and the myopic perspective of philistine.

You really don't see why people might be concerned with wanting something more then an endless series of distractions (for which, I remind you, don't come for free)?

Also again, you are not facing the metaphysical basis of nihilism.

>>5759734
But what do you know about philosophy?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:21:29 2014 No.5760709 >>5760660 Trust me sir, you do NOT need to be a philosophy major to understand and reject nihilism. It is a VERY simplistic stance on life. Now moral nihilism on the other hand... a decent stance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:24:32 2014 No.5760719 >>5760660 but I'm a materialists, probably physicist reductionist so... I mean, could just be that your brains just creates fake stories to make sense of your sadness and depression. looking for meaning could be just a by-product of your brain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:25:27 2014 No.5760726 >>5760709 I think that you don't even know what you don't know. Please define what you mean by nihilism and how you reject it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:29:09 2014 No.5760742 >>5760726 Nihilism, in its purest stance, is a rejection of the effects of one's actions and life of having any meaningful (not necessarily teleological) importance in the universe you lived in. Lets be honest. That is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:30:47 2014 No.5760747 >>5760742 No, you're retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:32:07 2014 No.5760751 >>5760747 You're 19, most likely second year at a second rate university majoring in philosophy or english for some retarded reason.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:32:43 2014 No.5760757 >>5760747 No, I'M retarded.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:35:21 2014 No.5760772

>>5760742
>a rejection of the effects of one's actions
my actions have very clear and apparent effects

>life of having any meaningful (not necessarily teleological) importance in the universe you lived in.
define "life"
the existence of psychological content and every object that falls under social description seems to disprove this formulation
even a physical description of "life" renders this formulation of nihilism incoherent

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:35:24 2014 No.5760773 >>5760742 So let's say you do one action.Like having a child. What is the meaning of that? Why is it meaningful?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 14:42:25 2014 No.5760816

>>5760772
Well obviously I'm not talking about a physical impact, that much is obvious.

What I'm talking about is having meaning to the universe around you. However YOU rationalize it, you DO have a meaningful impact if you live according to your personal philosophy.

What is funny is that there are people who truly believe that you can have no meaningful impact on the universe around you.

Which you and I both know is retarded. Nihilism is for complete morons.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 15:03:02 2014 No.5760899

>>5760816
The point is that you don't have a meaningful impact. If I move a rock or I don't move a rock by the end the result is the same: the universe collapses.

It's like death, no matter how you live you will always have achieved the same thing: nothing. You can either accelerate or delay the punchline, but the punchline is always that one.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 15:57:11 2014 No.5761116

>>5760642
>The optimist is a nihilist because he doesn't care if he has any rational basis to be an optimist, he just wants to be it because it makes him feel good and he will ignore or silence any opinion that disagrees with his.
>Ironically people that are concerned with nihilism are the least nihilistic ones because they are the few that still remember the distinction between nihilism and non-nihilism.

So an optimist is nihilist, but they want to silence or ignore it, wouldn't that be caused by a concern for nihilism? Why silence something if you aren't concerned?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:17:39 2014 No.5761436 >>5757845 Intelligent. Religion. .....

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:21:23 2014 No.5761457

>>5760899
Look, you're going to have to do better than that.

Do you even realize how pointless it is to be a nihilist? Dead people are nihilists. Common sense would dictate that whatever philosophy guides your life, it at least attempt to solve a little bit of that ennui. That's what philosophy is for.

Nihilism is the most insouciant, indolent philosophy in the world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:37:22 2014 No.5761529 >>5751392 Look up a PDF called "Critique Of Cynical Thought" by Peter Sloterdijik. I haven't read it yet, but maybe this will help?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:41:31 2014 No.5761547

>>5761457
But you do realize that the moment you judge philosophies in terms of utility or entertainment value you are being a nihilist?

You are not asking the question "is it true or not?" but "what do I get from it?"

And the only reason why one would judge a philosophy (which is a struggle for knowledge) in terms of utility (pragmatism) is if one has accepted nihilism already as the truth.

You see nihilism has stages, as Heidegger elucidates in his the european nihilism, so first you realize that everything is meaningless and then you forget that everything is meaningless.

You are so deep into nihilism that you don't even realize that you are a nihilist.

You are basically saying that you agree that your life has no meaning but that you don't want to think about it. And what is more nihilistic than this forgetfulness, this giving up on the truth.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:45:41 2014 No.5761570

>>5761116
Most of them ignore it. I mean nihilism is not a problem for most people, and the people who react most strongly to it are people, as you see, close to understand it because of their being on the margins.
Artists and academics which are on the fringe of the system of production (both of goods and of ideology), young people searching for identity, people who are sick mentally or physically, victims of traumas.

Most people are not even aware of it because they live in a status of targeted consumption which guarantees their well being, since its tailored for their needs. But they will of course get mad if you suggest the price of this.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 17:53:56 2014 No.5761605
File: 3.87 MB, 1500x1978, Albrecht_Altdorfer,_The_Battle_of_Alexander_at_Issus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The antidote to Schopenhauer is Alexander. Grandeur, awe-inspiring grandeur. Greatness and terribleness.

Read The Landmark Arrian, and Mary Renault's novels.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:00:46 2014 No.5761640 Hegel. Every other answer is sophistry.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:01:29 2014 No.5761643 >>5761605 You do realize though that fascism is exactly this attempt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:01:40 2014 No.5761644 >>5761605 you mean drunken degeneracy and multiculturalism?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:05:31 2014 No.5761663 >>5761644 >muh pop-history try reading something besides wikipedia for a change >>5761643 Fascism is the best we can do in modern times, since monarchy and aristocracy have both been abolished. Captcha: Aptly cruel

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:11:02 2014 No.5761687 >>5761663 >try reading something besides wikipedia for a change are you denying that alex was either a drunk or an imperialist?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:13:41 2014 No.5761697

>>5761663
I'm not sure, one thing that always struck me about fascism is how mediocre its leaders were.

If I lived in Germany or Italy in the twenties and thirties I would probably have emigrated rather than have to worship those clowns.
Because that's pretty much what they were: philistines on a pedestal.

I don't think that fascism would do much good to modern societies exactly because they keep being modern. They maintain the state and maintain the normal order of things, people in germany were living their normal lives like they do today.

And that's why those leader were just clowns. There is no grandiosity without the frenzy of the battlefield, but how can there be such thing when war is a bureaucrats' job now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:14:15 2014 No.5761701 >>5761663 Ha! Go back to sucking Nick Land and Mencius Moldbug's dicks while the ghost of King George III fucks your ass with a penis shaped like Julius Caesar, faggot. >Muh Hobbes Every criticism of Hobbes' ideas about government has been justified.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:14:34 2014 No.5761705

The simple answer:
Engage and occupy your mind. Get a job. Start studying. Attend the normie parties. Talk with people. Most people are intelligent in their own ways, you just have to suck it out of them and see it. Communicate with others. Engage, engage, engage. If you don't get a job, at least do some excercise, preferably through sports.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:16:02 2014 No.5761714 >>5761705 Chad pls

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:16:48 2014 No.5761718

>>5761687

He drank, sure. All Macedonians did. In certain places it was out of necessity, because the water was not safe for consumption. But after he slew Cleitus, the habit was curbed. Mostly he drank with his companions, to be with them and share in their festivities.

I wouldn't call him an imperialist. He wasn't out to make Macedon a world power. He was out to conquer the entire known world. That's different from imperialism, and I would argue, nobler as well. Countries are contemptible. If anything, he was a progressive imperialist; but even that label doesn't quite fit, because he assimilated many elements of Persian culture, rather than purging it and replacing it with Greek culture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:18:30 2014 No.5761728 >>5761701 Fascism sucks. I would prefer a good old fashioned aristocracy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:21:38 2014 No.5761741 >>5761714 So anything contrary to having a pile of books you've never read and a minimal income is chav-like? Nietzche, Aurelius, religion, even fucking Evola isn't going to solve any of his problems. Nihilism is dissolved through action.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:22:41 2014 No.5761744

>>5761718
>I wouldn't call him an imperialist. He wasn't out to make Macedon a world power. He was out to conquer the entire known world.
That's exactly what imperialism is.
>>5761728
>Fascism sucks.
It has more merit than an old-fashioned aristocracy.
>I would prefer a good old fashioned aristocracy.
Like I said, every criticism of Hobbes' view of government has been justified. Every criticism of aristocracy has been more justified. Everyone deserves to have an equal say in their government; everyone deserves to benefit from his own labor; everyone deserves freedom of speech and religion; every government should be held accountable by its people; every people should be in charge of their own governance. Aristocracy prevents these things from happening. So do other systems, but democracy at least tries to do away with the separation between classes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:23:35 2014 No.5761749 >>5761697 You only think they're "clowns" because you've been fed Allied propaganda all your life. D'Annunzio, Mussolini, and Hitler were all admirable people and worthy leaders.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:24:28 2014 No.5761753 >>5761749 >Accuses someone of swallowing Allied propaganda >While explicitly spouting the Axis propaganda he's willfully injected into his noosphere LOL

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:24:57 2014 No.5761757

>>5761744
>d. Everyone deserves to have an equal say in their government; everyone deserves to benefit from his own labor; everyone deserves freedom of speech and religion; every government should be held accountable by its people; every people should be in charge of their own governance.
where do you get this bullshit and why do you consider it to be self-evident?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:25:07 2014 No.5761759

>>5761705
It's just an endless distraction and for what for nothing?

Come on dude, don't teach people how to be stupid.

And besides that any person with half a brain will not change their mind just by going to some parties and doing some exercise.

I got a job, I live in ny, I regularly go to parties and bars and clubs and I'm an amateur boxer. This does not change that life is meaningless.

The only reason why people give you that advice is not because the nihilist lacks perspective, but because they hope to tire him out enough that he would eventually not have the energy anymore to think and will just sit in front of the tv and the internet like everyone else.

Really it's the dumbest advice you can give.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:26:49 2014 No.5761766 >>5761757 I get it from basic political philosophy. The American Declaration of Independence, Marx, Rousseau, etc., pretty much everyone who disagreed with Hobbes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:28:02 2014 No.5761771 >>5761766 Also Hegel

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:28:37 2014 No.5761776 File: 133 KB, 640x480, 1413249038030.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5753313

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:28:53 2014 No.5761777

>>5761744
>Everyone deserves to have an equal say in their government; everyone deserves to benefit from his own labor; everyone deserves freedom of speech and religion; every government should be held accountable by its people; every people should be in charge of their own governance. Aristocracy prevents these things from happening. So do other systems, but democracy at least tries to do away with the separation between classes.

Rights do not exist without an inequality of rights. Even within this 'free' society we have people who fall lower in the order: children and criminals come to mind.

The intrinsic form of corruption in a democracy is demagoguery. Extrinsically, plutocracy tends to develop, as is the case with America. In either a monarchy or an aristocracy, the money-makers and bankers are kept in check and put to their proper use by the existence of a higher authority than money, namely heredity.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:30:58 2014 No.5761787

>>5761749
Yeah D'Annunzio was a good writer, but he didn't last long as a leader before the philistines in the fascist party made him and most of the futurists irrelevant.

Similar fate with Junger, Heidegger and Benn which were brilliant minds put down by the mediocrities they were governed by.

Nah, man you are not going to fool me into believing that mister chicken farmer (Himmler) and mister hobo (hitler) were brilliant misunderstood minds when they were just as philistines as any arkansas soccer mom who thinks that kinkade is an awesome painter.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:31:16 2014 No.5761789
File: 974 KB, 500x320, 1407792765118.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5761697

I think Hitler stands out from the crowd for a number of reasons, but there's so many preconceptions to cut through on the subject that it's hardly worth talking about. There's a reason he still captivates even today, whereas the others fascist leaders languish in relative obscurity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:31:53 2014 No.5761791 File: 10 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5753313

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:33:14 2014 No.5761796 >>5761766 >Rosseau >muh noble savages I prefer Kant's conclusion, actually: "Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made."

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:33:53 2014 No.5761797 >>5761789 I think he was just rush limbaugh with a mustache. Have you read mein kampf? He can’t think, he can’t write. There’s no discernible talent.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:34:41 2014 No.5761803

>>5761759
And so you would re-affirm his own beliefs that everything is essentially meaningless? That's rather unproductive, no? I won't combat the notion of nihilism, I know it's "true". But he seems to be in a state where it entangles him and even supresses him. Literature won't save him from this. Nihilism has maybe been the nastiest fucker in my life. But the feelings or the melancholy that it used to bring has can in a manner be occupied. Being social, contributing to society and expanding our knowledge of concrete things (as well as the human minds, which goes beyond concrete), one should push for these things. They are all that we have.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:35:31 2014 No.5761808 >>5761797 I'm sorry, is Hitler famous as an artist and an author, or is he famous as a politician and a leader? You think Dali or Nabokov were fit to run a country or fight a war? Don't be a cretin.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:37:48 2014 No.5761820 Read Keiji Nishitani's The Self-Overcoming of Nihilism, it's p good

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:38:02 2014 No.5761824

>>5761777
>Even within this 'free' society we have people who fall lower in the order: children and criminals come to mind.
That can be justified. Children don't know how to behave maturely and it's up to society to educate them. Criminals have broken the law and deserve to be punished by the state, which is going to mean they lose some rights no matter what, but that's the nature of justice.
>The intrinsic form of corruption in a democracy is demagoguery
Corruption in any society is something that can't be traced to a single source. The military-industrial complex and the expanding power of the government in the US can be seen as both symptoms and causes of the country's corruption and decline. The 20th century was good for us economically; now, we've got more money to spend on stupid things, and industries that cater to people who spend money on stupid things. 'Demagoguery' is a problem, I guess, but you're oversimplifying things.
>Extrinsically, plutocracy tends to develop
What's the relation between plutocracy and demagoguery, exactly? Could you illustrate it for me? I'm not sure the one necessarily follows from, or at least exclusively from, the other.
>In either a monarchy or an aristocracy, the money-makers and bankers are kept in check and put to their proper use by the existence of a higher authority than money, namely heredity.
Why heredity? Why not outright military force? Laws can be passed in a democratic or republican government to limit the power of bankers. Why do you assume these laws won't be enforced, or that if they're repealed won't be reenacted when more reasonable people are elected? Is the ruling family truly above the influence of money?
>>5761796
I don't worship Rousseau, but worshipping Hobbes (as this fucker seems to do) is more idiotic than that particular notion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:38:18 2014 No.5761825 >>5760742 not a rejection of the effects, but a rejection of the idea that there is universal meaning or purpose. You have obviously not read very much on the issue so i advise you stop posting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:38:46 2014 No.5761831 >>5761766 Your moralfaggotry is still completely arbitrary and unwarranted though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:39:30 2014 No.5761836 >>5760751 fuck you asshole.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:39:38 2014 No.5761837

The universe is changing and developing. From a formless universe of hydrogen atoms, man was created. If there is no teleology, then this just happened arbitrarily.
How does the universe have any structure if it was completely uniform in the beginning? How was material created from nothing?

The only thing holding the nihilist back is their mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuition_(psychology)
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=atheism%20linked%20to%20autism

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:41:16 2014 No.5761843

If you choose not to believe in anything, which isn't an illogical choice in the pursuit of knowledge, at least recognize the individuality you have in any type of metaphysical existence.
Zonked said, "we are alone"...
While it seems incredibly sad to say, and while nihilism can seem like a pessimistic school of thought, meaninglessness does not always mean anything negative. What meaning you prescribe to anything, because of your isolation, is what meaning becomes real to you.
This isolation sentient beings have is either a curse or a blessing, depending on what they make of it... Perhaps when we can share perspective, when I can see, feel, think, act, be you... We can believe in something... Until then, we can believe in this strange existence we share, or supposedly share...

As far as I'm concerned all you fuckers couldn't even begin to understand existence, at least, I can't prove anyone else can.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:41:30 2014 No.5761847

>>5761803
If you accept that nihilism is true everything is equally unproductive.
So he can either go deeper in his search for truth and dedicate himself in a contemplation of this nothingness or he can turn to his profit.

Why turn eu-social? If the entrance in the social world is only done because it feels good, there are many other things that feel much better other than contributing to society.

Integrating will only bring him more problems down the line. Kinda like people who join half-heartedly a religion to escape this thoughts and then realize 10 years later that they never believed in it and they have wasted a lot of time for nothing and as soon as they realize that suddenly they find themselves without any friends and any community because they built a whole life on a lie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:42:02 2014 No.5761850 >>5761457 >common sense Please just stop posting. It's actually hurting my brain

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:42:39 2014 No.5761851 >>5761831 I agree, I don't really know what other names to use when defending the concept of human rights, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:43:46 2014 No.5761858 >>5761529 ahaha why would you rec something you haven't read? Thanks for the tip though

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:44:42 2014 No.5761862

>>5761824
>What's the relation between plutocracy and demagoguery, exactly? Could you illustrate it for me? I'm not sure the one necessarily follows from, or at least exclusively from, the other.

I didn't imply there was one. They are two different things.

You claim we have too much money: how is it that we're at historical levels of national debt then? Government spending has increased exponentially since Obama took office, because Obama has expanded government and government backed programs, which neither work nor benefit. Taxes in this country remain outrageous.

>Why heredity? Why not outright military force? Laws can be passed in a democratic or republican government to limit the power of bankers.

But if the bankers own the lawmakers and fiance the politicians, then what sort of laws do you imagine will be passed?

And a ruling family will naturally be wealthy; the point is that no amount of money should in theory suffice to overthrow them. Look at what has happened to art patronage in the 20th and 21st century.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:44:55 2014 No.5761863 >>5761843 Zonked=zizek

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:47:03 2014 No.5761874

>>5761547
You can't function while being a nihilist. Nihilism is for people who cannot comprehend their actions have infinite emotivist possibilities, typically in the vein of your perceptual influence on others. Basic psychological principles should make you question Nihilism as an ideology in the first place.

I hate to be the ad hominem slinging guy, but since I am surrounded by philosophers I will try.

You really have no clue what nihilism is.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:47:19 2014 No.5761876

>>5761808
The only thing I care is the arts and Hitler was egregiously bad with it, mostly because he was a barely educated philistine.

All the other concerns like maintaining a state and running an economy, liberal democracy did a better job then fascism ever deed.
So if fascism does not have an advantage on culture and does not offer me a better economic situation, why must I be interested in it?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:49:41 2014 No.5761887

>>5761825
It does not have to be universal. After all, a MORAL nihilist is not a nihilist completely simply because his social perception of himself and the world has no objective value, he is just a moral nihilist.

A complete rejection of any sort of interest that YOU have created for yourself, in your free will, that is nihilism. Rejection because it has no meaningful effect on you or your life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:49:48 2014 No.5761888 >>5761874 I'm a nihilist and I manage to function fairly well. So how do you explain that. And I do have an idea of what nihilism is. Again the best theorizers of it are Nietzsche and Heidegger.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:51:09 2014 No.5761896 >>5761876 Well for one thing, fascism is a lot better if you're trying to subjugate your neighbors. And as far as education goes, Marx was highly educated, but look where his ideas led.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:51:35 2014 No.5761898 >>5761888 Nietzsche was a moral nihilist, not a nihilist.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:52:05 2014 No.5761900

>>5761862
>how is it that we're at historical levels of national debt then?
We have so much debt because we've borrowed so much of that money from China.
>Government spending has increased exponentially since Obama took office, because Obama has expanded government and government backed programs, which neither work nor benefit.
I agree; that doesn't mean an absolute sovereign would be better than a system of checks and balances. Also, that's just a trend that Obama is continuing. Government tends to get bigger; it just happens, and it's been happening under Democrats, Republicans, kings, queens, monarchs, and tribal leaders since civilization began.
>But if the bankers own the lawmakers and fiance the politicians, then what sort of laws do you imagine will be passed?
Hopefully, the system will be set up so that the bankers and lawmakers can be stopped. Respect for the law and respect of citizens should be enough in a place like the U.S. Checks and balances, faggot.
>the point is that no amount of money should in theory suffice to overthrow them
Bankers have managed to take control of Congress without overthrowing it; what's to stop royalty form being bribed?
>>5761887
The way to beat nihilism is to stop attaching such weight to a poorly defined and badly understood version of the concept.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:53:55 2014 No.5761910 >>5761896 I have no interest in subjugating my neighbors. My only interest is in a government capable of founding great art and save the few from the oppression of the many.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:55:17 2014 No.5761916 >>5761898 He was nihilist from a metaphysical point of view too since he denies agency and an order of things and any meaning to the universe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:56:44 2014 No.5761923 >>5761851 That's because the concept of human rights can't be justified.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:58:34 2014 No.5761930 >>5761887 Does the question of free will have anything to do with nihilism? I think not. Stop blowing smoke out your arse and go back to your video games

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:59:27 2014 No.5761933 >>5761923 I'm gonna cut myself on all this edge

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 18:59:44 2014 No.5761935

>>5761900
>Hopefully, the system will be set up so that the bankers and lawmakers can be stopped. Respect for the law and respect of citizens should be enough in a place like the U.S. Checks and balances, faggot.

Clearly checks and balances have kept Obama under control. The recent immigration reform he pushed past Congress demonstrates that nicely.

>Government tends to get bigger; it just happens, and it's been happening under Democrats, Republicans, kings, queens, monarchs, and tribal leaders since civilization began.

Countries tend to get bigger, and with that you need more people in the government. But that doesn't mean you need bureaucracy or intrusion of the government into every facet of civil life, as we have in America, and as they have in the nanny state known as Great Britain. There's a difference between expanding the government and complicating the government, and there's a further difference between expanding the government and expanding government power.

>Bankers have managed to take control of Congress without overthrowing it; what's to stop royalty form being bribed?

Nobility and pride, mostly. Make the bankers and wealthy families into instruments, but do not allow them to run anything but their banks and families. Would any king suffer to be made the milksop of his treasurer? How many times in history have monarchs killed wealthy or influential people who outgrew their place in the order of rank?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:02:04 2014 No.5761945 >>5761910 Look into the government of Renaissance Italy then.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:03:37 2014 No.5761949

>>5761933
It's like people forgot that there is actually a lot of literature criticizing human rights.

For example take Leff:

Leff states as follows in the closing of Unspeakable Ethics, Unnatural Law:
All I can say is this: it looks as if we are all we have. Given what we know about ourselves, and each other, this is an extraordinarily unappetizing prospect; looking around the world, it appears that if all men are brothers, the ruling model is Cain and Abel. Neither reason, nor love, nor even terror, seems to have worked to make us “good,” and worse than that, there is no reason why any thing should. Only if ethics were something unspeakable by us could law be unnatural, and therefore unchallengeable. As things stand now, everything is up for grabs. Nevertheless:
Napalming babies is bad.
Starving the poor is wicked.
Buying and selling each other is depraved.
Those who stood up and died resisting Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Idi Amin, and Pol Pot —and General Custer too— have earned salvation.
Those who acquiesced deserve to be damned.
There is in the world such a thing as evil.
[All together now:] Sez who?
God help us.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:04:38 2014 No.5761955 >>5761837 On a larger scale random events will always create certain patterns, which idiots then ascribe to some higher entity.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:07:29 2014 No.5761968

>>5761935
>Clearly checks and balances have kept Obama under control. The recent immigration reform he pushed past Congress demonstrates that nicely.

As we agree, the system is fucked up right now. It has been before. It's better than an absolute monarchy.
>But that doesn't mean you need bureaucracy or intrusion of the government into every facet of civil life, as we have in America, and as they have in the nanny state known as Great Britain
I think if you look at history it actually is necessary to have a bureaucracy in place as the area governed expands.
>There's a difference between expanding the government and complicating the government, and there's a further difference between expanding the government and expanding government power.
No there isn't.
>Nobility and pride, mostly
Virtue ethics all the way, eh? Why not enshrine a love of the law with nobility and pride and entrust everyone to be a good citizen?
>Would any king suffer to be made the milksop of his treasurer?
Probably, yeah. Kings can be greedy.
>How many times in history have monarchs killed wealthy or influential people who outgrew their place in the order of rank?
How many times has money corrupted a man?

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:18:48 2014 No.5762004

>>5761968

>It's better than an absolute monarchy.

I'll take a corrupt monarchy over a corrupt democracy any day. Nothing is easier to correct than a corrupt monarchy. Who can I kill to fix the United States?

>No there isn't.

Yes there is. The government is expanded for the benefit of governing (and hence, for the people); government is complicated and increased in power for the benefit of those in the government, i.e. politicians and lawmakers. The first problem of government in this country is that we have too many fucking politicians.

>Why not enshrine a love of the law with nobility and pride and entrust everyone to be a good citizen?

Because that has zero chance of actually working. Pride and nobility are selfish virtues we can trust people to maintain.

>Probably, yeah. Kings can be greedy.

Not likely, if it's so much cheaper to just poison the man.

>How many times has money corrupted a man?

A man maybe; an heredity, rarely. Wealth tends to improve the quality of offspring, even if later on it tends to spoil them in life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:20:34 2014 No.5762011 >>5761916 Good job on showing that you have never read Nietzsche. >he denies any meaning to the universe All you have to do is literally read the wikipedia article on the overman and you'd see how wrong you are.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:22:16 2014 No.5762019 >>5762011 To be fair, he asserts that 'purpose is lacking', but he takes care to remind us that we need never lack for purpose, if we chose.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:23:18 2014 No.5762021 >>5762019 choose*

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 19:29:24 2014 No.5762044 >>5761933 There is nothing edgy about not uncritically adopting random ethical stances.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 20:41:47 2014 No.5762294 >>5751392 a nihilist wouldn't try to find a cure what you are is a faggot

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:20:10 2014 No.5762408 >>5761955 My point is: why are their random events? Existence is not necessary. If there is no teleology, then everything would either be uniform, or nothing would exist. But here we are.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:34:28 2014 No.5762440 >>5762408 What evidence do you have to suggest that there could be nothing? All the predicates for existence have to be interpreted by those who already exist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:37:28 2014 No.5762451 >>5762408 >. If there is no teleology, then everything would either be uniform, or nothing would exist. you have no reason to assume this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:38:13 2014 No.5762454 >>5762440 I think you've misinterpreted my post. I'm saying that the universe was not necessary - it did not have to exist, yet it does. I am saying that this suggests teleology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:39:43 2014 No.5762459 >>5762454 >I'm saying that the universe was not necessary How could something which was not necessary possibly come into existence at all?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:44:07 2014 No.5762474 >>5762459 If something exists, it exists necessarily. Principle of sufficient reason and all that.

Anonymous Sat Nov 22 21:50:26 2014 No.5762497

>>5762474
Thank you, that's exactly what I'm trying to say.
The universe didn't just arbitrarily come into existence, develop randomly, and accidentally create man. Everything came from one single cause, this cause was uncaused (God).

Want to see his omnipotence? http://htwins.net/scale2/

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 22:40:01 2014 No.5762637 >>5762454 How does it suggest teleology?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 22 23:14:48 2014 No.5762776 >>5751392 Then you failed to understand him, you moron.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 23 01:01:08 2014 No.5763132 >>5762637 Things do not exist without being necessary. Also a beginning almost always implies an end. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae#The_Teleological_Argument

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/lit/ - Literature