Are we living in a dystopia?

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Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:29:16 2014 No.5747978 [Reply] [Original]

Are we living in a dystopia?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:33:07 2014 No.5747990 File: 47 KB, 400x315, 277133f2fe2849db3664efa711c88cf5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5747978 depends, do you have a girlfriend or not?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:34:08 2014 No.5747994 >>5747978 Very much so. This is simply a result of life continuing to exist simply because it selects for it. There is no divine intervention, so things go off the rails pretty easily once true, "terraforming tier" intelligence comes about

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:38:06 2014 No.5748003

NSA spying. Mass illegal immigration. Blatantly pro-establishment media. Privilege checking conferences. Unprecedented wealth inequality. Sub replacement fertility rates. Subsidized decadence. A culture that promotes extreme indulgence and consumption. Secret child sex/murder clubs.

We're getting there.

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:51:55 2014 No.5748048

>had a chance pre-cultural Marxism, but now we're NEVER getting out of this solar system
>calm before the storm of 21st century world war (just you watch)
>highest birth rates are of sub-Saharan Africans (dumbest and most violent sub-species of humans)
>...
the rest is /pol/ tier so fuck it idc anymore let it crumble

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 12:55:56 2014 No.5748065 >>5747990 lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:15:55 2014 No.5748126 >>5747978 No.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:22:09 2014 No.5748148 that is a perfectly coherent interprettion of today's world. just be aware that it is not the only possible one. if you think so, then itt is YOU and all those who share your view who are living it, not everyone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:26:01 2014 No.5748160 >>5748003 >Mass illegal immigration >Sub replacement fertility rates >complains about too many people >complains about there not being enough people What do you even want man?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:29:53 2014 No.5748168 >>5748160 The gold old days where his culture mattered. The world is only Dystopian if you are a reactionary. For others, these slippery slopes look like awesome waterslides.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:44:39 2014 No.5748218 I'll try and steer this back so it's vaguley topical... Does anyone believe the vision of the future painted by Harry Harrison in Make Room, Make Room, is realisticly probable?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 13:46:27 2014 No.5748227 >>5748003 >Mass illegal immigration >Mass >lol, mass your MOM is a mass

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:02:54 2014 No.5748288
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Yes. For billions of years, the world has been a slaughterhouse.

>>5747994

>so things go off the rails pretty easily once true, "terraforming tier" intelligence comes about

Cyanobacteria destroyed themselves by pumping oxygen into the air. They terraformed the world into what it is today, and after they were gone life became more complex, larger, and eventually resulted in humanity.

Does that mean that intelligence came about billions of years ago?

>>5748003

>NSA spying

You've never been alone in your entire life. The animals just don't care that you masturbate to lolikon and futanari.

>Mass illegal immigration

What makes immigration legal? Animals invade each other's territory all the time. Some humans desire to eat your pie. If you were in their shoes, you'd be doing the same thing.

In fact, no matter what race you are, your ancestors almost certainly invaded someone's territory at some point.

>Blatantly pro-establishment media

The establishment uses it's organs to promote itself. You might as well condemn worker ants for serving the hive.

>Privilege checking conferences

Those without power desire power. Those in power were once without power, and acquired it by cheating and stealing, or evolving into something superior to the organism/s possessing the power.

Humanity, for example, started with weak bodies, and dominated all other animals by evolving into a totally new trophic level.

>Unprecedented wealth inequality

Every single organism on Earth wants to make everyone else as weak as possible, and themselves as strong as possible.

>Sub replacement fertility rates

Just inferior organisms dying off.

>Subsidized decadence

Animals rape, murder, and steal with impunity, unless their victims are strong enough to stop them. Moreover, all organisms are motivated by dopamine releases. The reason you made your post was because of dopamine; the same chemical that motivates crackheads and perverts.

>A culture that promotes extreme indulgence and consumption

Animals are born to eat and mate. Every last aspect of human behavior is a veneer for that fact. There's nothing but indulgence of your desires, and consumption.

>Secret child sex/murder clubs

Many animals murder their lovers and than have sex with the dead body. Humans are just another animal.

If humanity is living in dystopia for this reason, what does that mean for the rest of the planet? The universe? Why do you condemn humanity - your own flesh and blood - yet ignore that these horrors are innate to biology?

You seem to be acting as if nature isn't just as bad, but it is, and if it is, than the entire universe is evil.

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:04:13 2014 No.5748295
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>>5748288

>>5748048

>had a chance pre-cultural Marxism, but now we're NEVER getting out of this solar system

Capitalism can't get us into space. Any society based around affirming 'natural' drives violently rejects space.

Hitler would have nothing of it, he just wanted the rockets to kill people. The capitalist can't make money shipping things from one planet to another, and if he parks an asteroid in orbit all he's going to do is destroy his economy like the Spanish did with their stolen native American gold.

In space, everything has to be in perfect order. A space habitat capable of surviving into the far future would be necessity not require human intervention; you just need robots, and lo and behold that's all the capitalist ships into space.

Finally, once you get into space the amount of resources and real estate is so large that conflict between different groups is unnecessary. Animals in nature run from each other. Only members of the same species fight, and only for scarce items so that those that possess the rarest thing is considered richer and 'better' than all the others, and so earns their ire.

Not to mention the difficulties of surviving a space war. One grain of dust, and millions or billions could die. People will stay away from each other, not needing to trade, as well as trade being uneconomical.

Humanity in space enters oyster mode, and reduces itself to quivering flesh sacks hooked up to VR worlds to take their minds of the void.

The only people who could possibly be happy in space are those who don't want to work for a living, those who don't want to fight over territory, those who don't care about having hands-on control of their means of support, and those who don't care about playing social games.

Ironically, the 'cultural marxist' is the ideal candidate for the idleness of space living. Meanwhile, anyone who attempts to play the games of Earth in space will die from exposure to vacuum.

The moon landing was nothing other than the public front of the USA's ICBM program. They built the rockets to murder Russians, and it was easy and cheap to use the scraps left over to send a few men to the moon. When the rockets were used up, and the public stopped counting the missions (Ask around; it's surprising how few people know we went to the moon multiple times, and how blase about space exploration people who lived in the era are,) they just swept it into the dust bin. Why?

Because the white men in charge of it were so small minded, that they only cared about bombs. Notice how America spends *more* money now than then on the military, but now needs the Russians to get to the ISS.

>>	ΟΥΤΙΣ Wed Nov 19 14:08:22 2014 No.5748311 You'd have to be a spoiled brat to think so, considering our standard of living and freedom rationed to everyone else who has ever lived, is in the top 0.5%, easily.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:15:36 2014 No.5748334 >>5748003 >Secret child sex/murder clubs. where do i sign up?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:17:28 2014 No.5748337 File: 37 KB, 640x513, tie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5748334

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:24:45 2014 No.5748353 >>5748003 one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong, can you tell which of these things is not like the others by the time I finish my song?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:27:07 2014 No.5748358 >>5748334 By running for a political office.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:28:22 2014 No.5748364 >>5748353 the last one what do I win

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:30:37 2014 No.5748372

>>5748218
I was around when harry wrote that book. and if you think it's bad now, it was soooooo much worse then. the history of the late twentieth, early twenty-first century has been a history of steady improvement in just about everything. everything is cheaper, better, more readily available.food is good and keeps better, medicine is actually effective (doctor visits have certainly gone up in price though) A bum on the street lives better than a factory owner in the fifties in very real terms. and ask a black man my age if things have gotten better or worse. The only thing i can think of that's become harder to find is somebody who knows how to clean spats.

I know old guys are expected to say things have deteriorated and gone to the dogs. Not so. it's getting better all the time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 14:33:30 2014 No.5748383 >>5748295 except inseminating huge swathes of galaxies with humanity requires exceptional brainpower. Brainpower that is currently being bred out BY FUCKING MARXISTS AND THEIR MAKE EVERYTHING EQUAL SHIT

>>	Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Wed Nov 19 14:34:21 2014 No.5748386 File: 188 KB, 1400x882, ben1_david_001f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5748003 >unprecedented wealth inequality

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 15:06:02 2014 No.5748488

>>5748218
Not at all. The 70s era predictions of overpopulation are based on several mistaken assumptions about population growth and the carrying capacity of earth.

If everyone gets the bare minimum substance, you can support a lot more than 10 billion people on earth. The only problem is if you assume everyone should consume as much as 20th century america does.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 15:07:04 2014 No.5748492 >>5748295 You're supposed to be Dead Banks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 15:12:34 2014 No.5748510 File: 153 KB, 600x450, 12312312.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] muh 1984, bro! 1984, bro! 1984! Bro its just like 1984! Bro, INGSOC!! 'War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength', bro!

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 15:19:12 2014 No.5748536

>>5748488
Borlaug has been quoted as saying the earth could easily feed twice the current population with no change in productivity, because half the food produced is never consumed. It's lost to pests or mold, discarded uneaten or simply stored until it becomes inedible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 17:09:26 2014 No.5749021 I love it. Did Juvenal feel this way?

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:10:55 2014 No.5749262

>people in this thread talking about cultural marxism
lol, this here is the real brainwashing that the bourgeoise have made you buy into. in 20-30 years most of europe and america is going to be under the dominion of far-right populists, just look at people like belusconi, that's the future

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:20:35 2014 No.5749299 Not quite. But we are living at the tail end of the decline of Western culture, and considering western culture inarguably dominates the world perhaps the death of all potential human culture will be achieved soon. Thanks America!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:30:51 2014 No.5749348 >>5748003 >murica

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:40:04 2014 No.5749389

>>5748168

really, when has culture ever mattered? you think medieval peasants were somehow enmeshed in a beautiful cultural heaven whereby they were happy because they could connect to their ancestors and traditions or something like that? talk of the loss of culture is code for nostalgia for a past that never existed

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:44:08 2014 No.5749413 >>5747978 Depends on the individual innit. I'm not living in a dystopia.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 18:49:24 2014 No.5749439 >>5747990 i dont understand

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:13:55 2014 No.5749892 [DELETED]

>>5749389
>really, when has culture ever mattered?
Read Decline of the West by Spengler.
>you think medieval peasants were somehow enmeshed in a beautiful cultural heaven whereby they were happy because they could connect to their ancestors and traditions or something like that?
Not exactly but people felt and thought in a way that was generally more conducive to human inner happiness and fulfilment then the soulless abyss that we live in.
>talk of the loss of culture is code for nostalgia for a past that never existed
No, it's a demonstrable fact. Cultures exhaust their form language and enter into an inevitable decline.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:16:25 2014 No.5749899 >>5747978 NO. DONT YOU KNOW PERSPECTIVE IS KEY?DIDNT YOU START WITH THE GREEKS?

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:34:05 2014 No.5749962

>>5748168
A hedonistic, decadent, consumerist society certainly seems "awesome" when you're young, middle class, and single. When you're older and worried about raising your kids, it becomes scarier. Not everyone is privileged enough to shelter their children from the worst elements of modern society.

>>	Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Wed Nov 19 21:40:16 2014 No.5749981 >>5749892 >Not exactly but people felt and thought in a way that was generally more conducive to human inner happiness and fulfilment then the soulless abyss that we live in. Firsthand witness in here, everyone.

>>	Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Wed Nov 19 21:41:17 2014 No.5749984 >>5749962 >the worst elements of modern society Them being...? >A hedonistic, decadent, consumerist society Damn you don't see much outside of what you want to see.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:49:46 2014 No.5750008 >>5747978 more like entering into a cyberpunk future. >and i dont like it

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:55:32 2014 No.5750033 no because everything is subjective lol :^) fucking post modernism man

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:55:48 2014 No.5750034 >>5749892 >Read Decline of the West by Spengler. :^~)

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 21:59:41 2014 No.5750047 >>5749981 This isn't meant as a rebuttal, but why do you think humans develop tradition, ritual, art - culture in the first place? You're answer will say a lot.

>>	Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Wed Nov 19 22:04:08 2014 No.5750065 >>5750047 My is answer? --- out of inertia and in an utmost religious manner; showing fear and respect to deceased ancestors.

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:09:27 2014 No.5750086

>>5749984
>Them being...?
A high time preference culture that glorifies immediate gratification, casual sex, drug use, and fosters a lower attention span in general. An institution hostile to white/christian/males and demographic trends that may amplify this hostility. A public school system that indoctrinates children into thinking sexual deviancy is normal and adopts curriculum in an attempt to cut down the smartest for the sake of equality rather than let them excel. Technology trends that make people lazier and less physically social than ever, that oversaturates people's minds with extreme stimulation(porn, unlimited streaming/videos/music, cheap dopamine fixes through social media). A short sighted globalist elite who see people as commodities and provoke wars the general population has no interest in.

There's quite a bit to be worried about.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:41:48 2014 No.5750185 >>5750086 Le white endangered males pol meme tip to you good sire :^)

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:57:21 2014 No.5750232 >>5750086 nice fedora bro.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:58:06 2014 No.5750235 >>5750065 >out of inertia Elaborate please, do you mean they were bored? >in an utmost religious manner; lol >showing fear and respect to deceased ancestors. Why would they want to do that?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:58:40 2014 No.5750237 >>5748295 >bringing race into it for no fucking reason Halkmark of a racist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 22:59:09 2014 No.5750239 >>5750185 le me le memeelel memeemlell lel lemme feadoralel lel meme :__))"""++)

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:04:23 2014 No.5750259

For people of color it's pretty close. For poor people yes as well.

We're pretty close to Brave New World with all our talking screens, medicines for our brains, and mass ignorance.

But among all that, it's not repressive in terms of violently stopping counter culture, so there are large minorities of activists, intellectuals, artists trying to wake us up.

Climate change will make it so for everyone if we don't address it aoon. Automation could bring about a utopia.

We are literally on the precipice between a beautiful and peaceful word, and oblivion.

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:08:01 2014 No.5750272

You could say that the modern era, including in the west, is a dystopia. The real question is, is it better or worse than the eras that came before it? Are the Enlightenment, Renaissance, Medieval period, etc., not eras that were in many ways equally dystopian?

Are we more dystopian than the past because of the emergence of technology and its potential, or less dystopian because of the gradual emergence of the democratic process and changes in the conception of human and civil rights? Is it possible for the idea of civil rights and human rights to go too far, to the point where another type of dystopia is created?

All questions worth asking.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:09:28 2014 No.5750277 >>5750185 >>5750232 kinda proving his point with how vapid your contribution is.

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:10:59 2014 No.5750281

>>5747978

Yes.

In the next century the following crises will collide in an as yet unpredictable fashion and will probably cause an enormous amount of misery and death:

>climate change
>nuclear war/fallout
>restructuring of diplomatic power balance with retreat of American hegemony
>food price instability
>peak human population (ca. 2050)
>depletion of pivotal energy resources
>bio/chem warfare

That's to say nothing of the near perfect control of information and beliefs exercised by a totally inhuman power structure that controls us all.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:12:32 2014 No.5750288 >>5750277 No not really, but then you are him, so...

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:13:30 2014 No.5750293 >>5747978 We live in the alienated wasteland of late capitalism. Thats pretty dystopic

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:14:44 2014 No.5750299

>>5750281

>a totally inhuman power structure that controls us all

Believe it or not, most people in any position of power (whether it's the president/prime minister of a country or some 18 year old grunt soldier who's given the amazing power of life and death) they're human beings who go home to their families every night, eat dinner, and experience stress just like you or I. It's convenient to dehumanize anyone who holds more power than you to explain away your gripes with the "system" but it's also incredibly problematic and causes you to mentally block out any reasonable explanation for things that happen that you disagree with and feel you are not in control of.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:15:46 2014 No.5750303 >>5750293 What's the alternative? The bureaucratically alienated clusterfuck wasteland of nationalized industry in a socialist economy?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:15:49 2014 No.5750304 >>5750259 >people of colour Stopped reading there

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:17:16 2014 No.5750310 >>5750304 >I actively try to ignore problems common among people of a different demographic from me

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:19:23 2014 No.5750314

>>5750299

Yeah save the lecture for someone who has something to learn from you, Grandpa.

I specifically said "Inhuman power structure" because I wanted to take focus away from the particular individuals holding power and put it on the structure itself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:20:22 2014 No.5750315 File: 82 KB, 621x729, zxc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] can someone post the full set of these?

>>	Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Wed Nov 19 23:20:50 2014 No.5750317 File: 75 KB, 299x863, nietzsche over swag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5750315

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:21:19 2014 No.5750321 >>5750310 >I'm an American and I can't conceive that other countries exist and that people in them don't care about Jamal's plight!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:22:00 2014 No.5750323 >>5750317 And then there's Stirner standing over KNEECHEE

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:23:14 2014 No.5750324 >>5749413 Che, you git somma that firerwater i can drink down at the casino, innit?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:23:34 2014 No.5750326 >>5750323 This is already stupid. The picture was supposed to be about the impact of reading on one's worldview, not WHO DA BEST PHILOZIPHER

Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:23:50 2014 No.5750329

>>5750321

>implying the United States is the only country in which minority populations face discrimination including marginalization and sometimes violence
>implying I don't give a shit about minority issues in other countries as well
>implying I'm not aware of or don't care about minority issues in China, India, Brazil, Russia, Syria, Iraq, and numerous other countries

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:26:22 2014 No.5750335 >>5750321 >hurrr look at me guys, I'm a racist asshole xD

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:26:59 2014 No.5750341 >>5750326 It's not WHO DA BEST PHILOSAPHER; It's a joke.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:27:16 2014 No.5750342 >>5750303 We could...i dunno, kill ourselves?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:32:45 2014 No.5750356 >>5750329 >implying I should give a shit about niggers in my country when they don't belong here in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:34:08 2014 No.5750359 >>5750356 Immigrants benefit the economy, and discrimination against them or intentional ignorance of the discrimination they sometimes face helps no one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:37:30 2014 No.5750370 >>5750359 Don't take a joke (>>5750356) seriously.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 19 23:48:42 2014 No.5750394 >>5750370 I don't feel I have any responsibility to help niggers, sorry. I would prefer they stayed in Africa or former slave countries because of their lower intelligence and natural predisposition towards violence, and they are ugly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:13:45 2014 No.5750484 >>5750394 Well too bad for you then. Your race is self destructive and Nihilistic. What you call a predisposition towards violence, or gangster culture, is simply an expression of Master Morality.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:17:21 2014 No.5750499 >>5747978 >dystopia no, not everything is bad in our society. dystopia is an ideal-type. There can never be a society where everything is totally bad. Our society is probably worse than it was before WWII, so there's that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:21:57 2014 No.5750523 >>5750359 healthy economy does not equal healthy people. Europeans live longer happier lives than Americans, and yet America is the richest country on earth.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:23:18 2014 No.5750528

>>5750499

>before WWII
>medical technology was shit, practically medieval torture by today's standards
>Political extremes such as Fascism and Communism were actually considered as legitimate and beneficial in large swathes of the world
>Alcohol was illegal for a significant period of time
>Immediately before World War II a worldwide economic depression happened
>LGBTs, women and especially blacks were allowed fewer recognized rites by society and offensively casual racism was prevalent in the mainstream entertainment industry

>Our society is WORSE than World War II

Yeah, no

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:24:24 2014 No.5750536 >>5750528 >rites Fuck, meant rights

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:41:17 2014 No.5750614

>>5750528
were the bad guys now. The USA has taken all the imperial tricks and uses them on a regular basis in foreign countries.

the entire cold war has seen the USA commit tons of illegal military actions and atrocities abroad, while turning into a police state at home.

but sure, we have lots of material wealth, but material goods alone don't make a good society. We are guilty of atrocious crimes.

we've become the bad guys.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:45:37 2014 No.5750634

>>5750614

You are desperately in need of a Political Science class. I recommend an International Relations or Comparative Politics course to put things in perspective for you so that you realize how distorted your opinions are and what shaky foundations they are built on.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:46:21 2014 No.5750638

>>5750614
We've become the decadent empire is what happened. Soon we will fall, and in a few hundred years somebody else will take our places as the bearers of "western culture"

English will be remembered as the language you need to learn if you want to become a computer scientist (computers will still be programmed in C). Just like how Latin was the language of science for hundreds of years.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:49:13 2014 No.5750663 >>5750614 You believe in the incredibly problematic Just War Tradition that originated with Catholic philosophy, don't you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:50:02 2014 No.5750666 > Implying you would not enjoy watch it all burn down to the ground.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 00:51:58 2014 No.5750677 You guys need to get off the computer and go smell the roses. Grab a book and some wine and go read in your favorite chair, then maybe go out to a small pub for a bit of shepherds pie and beer. Things really arent that bad

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:06:44 2014 No.5750744

>>5747978
We are actually living in a Utopia of mediocrity.

If you are an underachiever, life has never been better. You now not only have enough food to eat, but more than enough. You can get just as fat as you want. And not only can you freely fulfill all your other such hedonistic wishes, you can collectivize with other mediocre people and build power structures celebrating and advocating that what you are doing is natural and good. Not only are the people that once had advantages over you your societal equal, now through collective bargaining and the democratic process, you actually have power over them. Complex problems like climate change and geopolitical relations going on? No problem, there are overachievers just begging for your vote to deal with them. And thanks to demographics and genetic inheritance, you are out breeding everyone. You are winning the battle of the fittest without lifting a finger. You and all your children will be coddled from cradle to grave and you couldn't be happier about it.

For everyone else, it pretty much sucks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:07:35 2014 No.5750750 >>5750744 shoot yourself you absolute waste of space

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:10:12 2014 No.5750760 >>5750634 >other people did bad stuff too, therefore we aren't the bad guys!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:10:29 2014 No.5750761 >>5750750 There is no reason to be so upset.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:12:16 2014 No.5750767 >>5750750 why you so mean? psychopath's love 4chan

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:22:22 2014 No.5750816

>>5750634
don't make me school you, nigger. i guarantee that I've got more knowledge and sense on international politics than you do. just try me.

Any what I say is true. the USA has assimilated the worst policies of the French and British colonial empires (and the Nazi's security apparatus) and made them part of our current policy.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:24:40 2014 No.5750825

>>5750663
I believe in the sovereignty of nations as laid down after the 30 years war, and the right of national self-determination.

And wars should only be fought by one sovereign nation against others only if it is defensive.

All other military actions should be handled by coalitions through the UN.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:24:49 2014 No.5750826 >>5747978 Yes, are you retarded or something?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:29:08 2014 No.5750839 >>5750826 quality post

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 01:35:47 2014 No.5750863 >>5750634 lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 02:20:57 2014 No.5750988 Guys my mind was just blown. When the fuck has the world ever not been a dystopian nightmare? Samsara! SAMSARA! AHHHHHH THE BUDDHA WAS RIGHT!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:19:05 2014 No.5751152 >>5750281 >>5750259 >Climate change will make it so for everyone if we don't address it aoon. This. The next 50 years are going to have some shit in store

>>	TheOnlyAustralianInBrit/pol/ !SDj8IFD6gY Thu Nov 20 03:21:15 2014 No.5751165 >>5750638 Nope, English is here to stay, and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:22:08 2014 No.5751166 >>5751165 Everything is impermanent. You would not recognize this world as yours if you happened upon in a century's time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:25:15 2014 No.5751174 >>5751166 America is #1 in everything, so you can go fuck yourself, yuropoor.

>>	Paradise !!vh7XQhHe/pR Thu Nov 20 03:26:30 2014 No.5751182 Dolphins will inherit the earth

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:27:12 2014 No.5751184 >>5751174 I live in Washington D.C. you faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:28:08 2014 No.5751188 >>5751184 >living in a nanny state No wonder you hate America, son.

TheOnlyAustralianInBrit/pol/ !SDj8IFD6gY Thu Nov 20 03:29:57 2014 No.5751192

>>5751166

That doesn't provide any evidence for a language that you're claiming is about to displace English as the global lingua franca.

You can't just say 'you never know what might happen, therefore my thesis is right!!!!'. You are not thinking.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:31:31 2014 No.5751199 >>5751182 >implying raccoon hands aren't superior to dolphin flippers

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:36:03 2014 No.5751216 >>5751192 Lol you can't just say 'he replied to my post, therefore he's the other guy who replied to my post!!!!!!'. You are not thinking.

>>	TheOnlyAustralianInBrit/pol/ !SDj8IFD6gY Thu Nov 20 03:37:34 2014 No.5751223 >>5751216 Well if you're not invested in the same argument, your post is quite irrelevant to mine. So either way I win.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:38:43 2014 No.5751229 >>5751223 >2014 >caring about the internet

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:39:27 2014 No.5751232 >implying that life on average isn't better today than it has ever been in human history

>>	TheOnlyAustralianInBrit/pol/ !SDj8IFD6gY Thu Nov 20 03:42:43 2014 No.5751247 >>5751232 Better by what criteria? Why those criteria? Why all of them, and not only some of them? Why any of them at all?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:44:21 2014 No.5751251 >>5751247 I dunno tap water access or some other shit that obfuscates the obvious reality of global poverty and excessive consumption?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:46:19 2014 No.5751260 >>5751251 Which country was better off 100 years ago?

>>	TheOnlyAustralianInBrit/pol/ !SDj8IFD6gY Thu Nov 20 03:49:16 2014 No.5751270 >>5751251 I'm pretty sure people had access to water back in ancient Greece bro. I don't know for sure but I have a strong hunch that water existed back then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 03:56:14 2014 No.5751298 >>5747990 actual_tears.gif

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 04:01:10 2014 No.5751312 File: 56 KB, 550x550, 1382993828592.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5748288 >Appeal to Nature: The Post

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:21:49 2014 No.5751938

I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of other /lit/izens in their early sixties or late fifties: would you say that things are worse or better now, in real terms than when you were a kid? I grew up in the farming Midwest, so my experiences may not be generally applicable, but i can't name much that has vanished that i'd want back. In fact,pretty much anything i miss from the fifties sixties or seventies is available now (Coke tastes different, but that might just be me). And there's a lot of things that are better and cleaner and cheaper and easier to use. This internet for instance is absolutely the best thing I've ever seen and I hope you guys appreciate it, and I bet it hasn't achieved a tenth of its potential uses yet. Just my two cents.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:29:50 2014 No.5751956 >>5747990 Winston Smith had an on and off female fuck buddy. Didn't make his life in Oceania any less dystopic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:31:06 2014 No.5751958 >>5751260 RUSSIA

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:31:31 2014 No.5751960 >>5751312 It isn't even apeal to nature. It is more like apeal to the animalistic. Plato apeals to nature, this is different.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:36:30 2014 No.5751975 >>5751938 Same sex partners are allowed to legally marry in much of the United States now, which is a positive change from several decades ago So that's better

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:39:47 2014 No.5751983 >>5751975 hell, blacks and whites are allowed to marry now, as compared to then. And butch lesbians can get jobs so they don't have to live off femmes or dress down.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 09:52:06 2014 No.5752000 >>5751958 Certainly not, 100 years ago Russia was in the middle of starting a WWI that they were going to lose.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 10:06:30 2014 No.5752029 >>5751260 Ironically, various colonial possessions before they devolved into ethnic conflict You can thank the aftereffects of divide and conquer strategies and arbitrary boundary drawing for that

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 10:44:49 2014 No.5752125

>>5748003
Who here actually participates in these acts?
Who actually considers themselves simply another animal on this planet instead of something undefinable?
Kinda hinting toward this unique consciousness thing we seem to have going on...
Yeah if you listen to the rhetoric that's beaten into us constantly, and embrace the suffering that we're forced to endure, mainly caused by the monetary system...
Things look pretty dystopian...
I guess I personally choose to have faith in an existence I've decided to make positive rather than let the rest of the world make me a cynic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:27:08 2014 No.5752220 File: 27 KB, 380x344, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5750356 >implying I should give a shit about cracker in my country when they don't belong here in the first place after they slaughtered our people and made a tradition out of it

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 11:29:19 2014 No.5752226

>>5750356
>my country
>hasn't made any contributions
>owns no land
>state can kill or imprison him any time
>Capitalism
>america
>shit healthcare
>uni fees
>shit food
>culture built on consumerism and materialism

lmao bud, keep fighting the good fight against niggers and all! haha

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:16:58 2014 No.5752359 >>5747978 No. But what would utopia be like?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:19:34 2014 No.5752368 >>5749962 Mah chilens! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:20:59 2014 No.5752373 >>5750008 If Cyberpunk frightens you. You don't understand cyberpunk.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:31:37 2014 No.5752413 >>5749962 i'm old enough that my kids have kids in high school, and i can tell you i wouldn't have them take them back into the fifties and raise them to save my soul from hell. you kids really have no clue how good you have it, do you?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:32:27 2014 No.5752417

My life is honestly fucking great. I don't know what you assholes are talking about. Do you know I had sex last week? I got a short story accepted for publishing yesterday. The day before that, I drank alcohol with friends, and got asked - can you believe: asked? - on a date by a woman. That makes two dates booked for next week, along with loads of drinking and writing, and all without having to work because my Dad covers my income. So there you go: proof the world's fine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:35:00 2014 No.5752424 >>5750744 >You are winning the battle of the fittest without lifting a finger. >implying that didn't happen before on monarchies/empires

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:35:43 2014 No.5752426 >>5752413 I got a clue about one thing, man: the first of those sentences was clunky as fuck. But seriously - are you sure it was as bad as all that? Are you sure you're not just letting black armband historians tweak your memory?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:36:31 2014 No.5752432 >>5750988 >the world doesn't make sense >humans doesn't make sense >ISHIGGIDY

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:39:10 2014 No.5752442 >>5748288 >The reason you made your post was because of dopamine Here: Biology fucks with your logic

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:42:51 2014 No.5752452

>>5752426
I'm just astonished by everybody who thinks it was some sort of golden age. sorry for the clunkiness. It really was that bad. I could write a long essay on it and maybe I should. Stuff we took for granted would seem horrible to you guys. Even trivial things. Try it: picture a typical Saturday in nineteen fifty three. What would you be doing?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:44:14 2014 No.5752461

No.

Dystopia is not simply a bad society, utopia is not simply a good society. They are by definition only imagined, always in the future, it's impossible to live neither of them, no matter how you rate the situation of today. They are like the horizon line, you can't never reach them.

Utopia is the picture that shapes the struggle of people today, that is, what people are fighting or desiring the world to become. Dystopia is what people fear the world might become. They are simply models and can never actualize themselves.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:44:41 2014 No.5752462

>>5750086
>A high time preference culture that glorifies immediate gratification, casual sex, drug use
Is fucking awesome.

>An institution hostile to white/christian/males and demographic trends that may amplify this hostility.
As a white male, why should I worship a Semitic religion? The Greeks were pagan, and so were the people of Europe before a bunch of Jewish heretics hijacked the festering corpse of the roman empire to spread their cancerous religion of self hate.

>A public school system that indoctrinates children into thinking sexual deviancy is normal
Well they should hurry it up so prudes like you go extinct.

>and adopts curriculum in an attempt to cut down the smartest for the sake of equality rather than let them excel.
Only if you go to a shitty school. You do have a point there, but you exaggerate the effect.

>Technology trends that make people lazier and less physically social than ever,
Do you think people actually talked to each other while riding the train before phones? No they all read the paper because talking to strangers is awkward.

>oversaturates people's minds with extreme stimulation(porn, unlimited streaming/videos/music, cheap dopamine fixes through social media).
People should all be as unhappy as I am.

>A short sighted globalist elite who see people as commodities and provoke wars the general population has no interest in.
There has literally never been a period in recorded history where this has not been true. We are still here 10,000 years latter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:48:22 2014 No.5752469 >>5752452 or, make a list of what you might do on a typical saturday off, and think of what the fifties equivalent would be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:48:38 2014 No.5752471 >>5752452 Reading, jerking off. Same as now sans-shitposting. Listening to jazz, maybe.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:55:52 2014 No.5752494

>>5752469
2010s
Internet shitposting.
Jerking off.
Reading.
Getting drunk with the lads in the evening.
Writing.
Exercising in the morning, maybe.
A lot of the time just studying.

50s
Other than arguing with the TV, nothing.
Jerking off.
Reading.
Getting drunk with the lads, but we wouldn't be out too late, because church in the morning.
Writing.
Exercising.
Studying.

So no vidya and no internet and no gay sex. Seems livable.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:57:02 2014 No.5752500

>>5752471
haha! reading what? where would you get the books? if you read with any facility at all, almost anything available in your school or community library you would have read long ago. drugstore pulp magazines? those are good for a weekend every two months maybe.

Jerking off to what? THERE IS NO PORN. none. of any kind. a kid who can draw a naked girl never has to buy his own eggcreams. But if he's caught doing it in school he's expelled or sent to reform school.

Jazz? You mean the same big band Tommy Dorsey 78s your dad had? and on what? a credenza console in the living room where your family has to listen to it too? On the radio? what station would that be? and at what time? you've got religious programming and soap operas most of the day, radio dramas and dance music /variety shows most of the evening on all three AM stations that come in, and you share that radio with three generations in a typical household anyway. And it goes off after the ten o'clock news anyway.

granted i'm sketching it pessimistically, but not at all inaccurately.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:59:38 2014 No.5752507 >>5747978 Yes but the dystopia is created by yourself

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 12:59:42 2014 No.5752508 >>5752494 You might get served in a bar after you turned twenty one (eighteen with a service record) if you had your draft card and could find a bar that served anybody your age--they didn't have to, and a lot of them didn't.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:05:31 2014 No.5752533

>>5752494
Exercising? Calisthenics and door frame isometrics? boxing if there's a gym nearby? You're not running unless its at the school track. you're not going to be out in public in shorts or short sleeves if you're older than fourteen. There are no workout gyms like now. They were (rightly at the time) considered gay. A subscription to Physical Culture magazine could brand you queer all through high school and college.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:07:28 2014 No.5752537 >>5747978 Aldous Huxley was right

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:13:48 2014 No.5752559

>>5752500
I'd get them, I guess, at the bookstore, or a major library, because even today regional towns sound like nightmares to me, so I can't see why I wouldn't be living in a city. I suppose I could jerk off to smut fiction. And I grew up in a family where everyone had their own room, TV, and computer, so I don't want to imagine being poorer; I'm going to imagine I'd have my own radio. And I'm sure my friends and I could find a cool bar in the city.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:14:18 2014 No.5752562 File: 7 KB, 320x180, mqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5752220 to the victor goes the spoils

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:16:09 2014 No.5752573 >>5752533 Yeah, I guess that sounds pretty bad.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:21:04 2014 No.5752589

>>5752559
in a city you'd better find one in three or four blocks of where you lived. Because if you think there's a gang problem now....any three guys who didn't go to your school might as well have been a gang. your own radio would have cost your dad two weeks take home pay. yu might be rich., and live near a major library where you could get borrowing privileges. enjoy those Jules Verne and Charles Dickens. Big libraries didnt carry popular trash.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:21:24 2014 No.5752590 File: 46 KB, 516x375, 1414365729956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5752500 >There was no porn in the fifties >What is playboy

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:24:04 2014 No.5752598

>>5752590
Where would you buy your playboy? Do you live in Chicago, Milwaukee, some town with a sleazy district? Who's going to sell it to you? It ain't on the Newsstands in any town smaller than Cleveland, which in some states means not at all. and fifties playboy ain't that much of porn, believe me, though a little went a long way back then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:30:49 2014 No.5752620 >watching e/pol/a subhumans get destroyed by oldfag Fucking beautiful.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:38:19 2014 No.5752641

>>5748383
>doesn't understand the first thing about Marxism.

It's not about making everyone equal, it's about giving people what they deserve and what is humane. We should get 100% of what we work for, and we should collectively own resources (because fuck, why should 1 person own a mountain?). If you can't work, you'll be assigned a job you can do. In the rare case that there's absolutely nothing for you to do, you'll either A.) get cared for by society or B.) die off.

"Cultural Marxism" is really diverse. You'll have to explain exactly what you mean before figuring out if something really is Marxist or not.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:40:09 2014 No.5752646

The 50s might be livable if you were in a big city, but that's getting closer to the Degeneracy you fags keep complaining about.

You want a small amount of this so called degeneracy, but anything more than what you are comfortable with you pus out on and start running back to mommy. Absolutely despicable.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:42:50 2014 No.5752656 >>5748386 hahahahaha i like u

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:45:12 2014 No.5752667 Why do buthurt conservatives even come to a website dedicated to Anime porn? You won't find a bigger den of degeneracy than 4chan.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:50:46 2014 No.5752682 >>5750326 >>5750323 >>5750317 also the jew one

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 13:53:45 2014 No.5752699 >>5747978 Dystopia, as in a bad place? Too many certainly do, but not anywhere in the western world save a few pockets of misery here and there. It could be worse. In fact, taken society as a whole, it certainly always has been.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:06:02 2014 No.5752742

>>5752699
>South America= mostly 3rd world
>Asia=mostly 3rd world
>Africa= mostly 3rd world
>Eastern Europe=mostly 3rd world
>Western Europe=1st world (with some exceptions)
>North America=1st world (unless you live in Mexico, Haiti, or some other 3rd world island country)

It seems to me that it's the other way around. There are mostly dystopias in the world today, with only some pockets that are suitable or ideal.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:07:25 2014 No.5752751

>>5751312

On the contrary, I'm saying that everything about nature is horrid and that the only way out is to destroy the natural and replace it with the artificial.

Have you ever heard of the Hedonistic Imperative? David Pierce goes so far as to ponder genetically modifying all life on Earth so that nothing can experience pain. My ideas are also informed by Timothy Leary, who advocated space colonization for the purposes of furthering human evolution.

I mean, I even say "For billions of years, the world has been a slaughterhouse." How in the world do you glean an appeal to nature from that?

>>5752442

Yep. My entire post was motivated by my hatred of survival of the fittest, and a desire to call into question romantic images of our world and create a new one that doesn't possess threats to my safety and sovereignty.

In other words, I want to create a giant daycare center, but one in which I'm god. I don't want to feel pain, depression, or see or hear anything I don't like. Everything in my environment should be built for my pleasure; every other organism within my environment should be constructed from the get-go to agree with me on everything.

I'm honest with myself, with others, and about reality. I play the survival game grudgingly, and want to eliminate it from my experience.

>>5752667

I know, right?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:08:28 2014 No.5752753 >>5752667 It's entirely possible to be in line with some strain of conservative thought on economic or military issues while being socially liberal in a way that the "moral values" crowd considers "degeneracy".

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:21:00 2014 No.5752783 >>5752753 Yes, but in that case you shouldn't be saying the 50s was a golden age or complaining about how much sex kids are having these days.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:23:30 2014 No.5752796 >>5752742 The first, second, and third world descriptors are no longer valuable in the post cold-war era. Now in the globalization erra we just have the developing and developed nations.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:28:48 2014 No.5752813 I'm the oldfag referenced above, and I believe I've been inspired by this thread to do that essay on how much times have changed for the better. I wonder if i should post it here when finished or try to enlighten the Birchers on /pol/?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:30:57 2014 No.5752823 >>5752813 Please do and link the thread here. (I don't want to go digging around in that cespit)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 14:33:00 2014 No.5752826 >>5751199 >>5751182 >implying Crows wont inherit the earth

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:08:26 2014 No.5752963 >>5748003 >Sub replacement fertility rates. But this is a good thing.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:15:14 2014 No.5752984

>>5748288
>Contrarian falsehoods: The Post

Let's unpack your falsehoods one by one:

>Cyanobacteria destroyed themselves by pumping oxygen into the air. They terraformed the world into what it is today, and after they were gone life became more complex, larger, and eventually resulted in humanity.
Unverifiable, make-believe propositions.

>You've never been alone in your entire life. The animals just don't care that you masturbate to lolikon and futanari.
Unjustified, make-believe assumptions.

>Animals invade each other's territory all the time.
An animal that invades someone's territory, yet has no conception of "territory", is not, strictly speaking, invading it.

>If you were in their shoes, you'd be doing the same thing.
You are not an omniscient being — without any mention of a probability-indicating term or phrase, your future-event predictions are literally worthless.

>Those without power desire power.
Not in the slightest.

>Those in power were once without power, and acquired it by cheating and stealing
Thank you for reminding me that for detecting a clinically retarded individual all it takes is to detect a hasty generalization.

>Humanity, for example, started with weak bodies, and dominated all other animals by evolving into a totally new trophic level.
What?

>Every single organism on Earth wants to make everyone else as weak as possible, and themselves as strong as possible.
Are you retarded?

>Animals rape, murder, and steal with impunity, unless their victims are strong enough to stop them. Moreover, all organisms are motivated by dopamine releases
Both false.

>The reason you made your post was because of dopamine
Show me the causal link between a dopamine release and me deciding to reply to your post.

>Animals are born to eat and mate.
Did you create the Universe to be ascribing teleological properties to animals?

Just shut the fuck up, you navel-gazing, wishful-thinking and nonsense spouting windbag.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:36:34 2014 No.5753037

>>5752984
>Shit I have no rebuttal too: The Post.

>Unverifiable, make-believe propositions.
The Fossil Record is unverifiable,

>An animal that invades someone's territory, yet has no conception of "territory", is not, strictly speaking, invading it.
While the concept of territory, (or even any concept) only exists in the human mind, it is observable that many animals will pick a specific region to inhabit, and defend it from other animals.
I'm not even going to do the rest, all your arguments boil down to "CONCEPTS AREN'T OBJECTIVE, SO EVERYTHING I SAY IS RIGHT."

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:45:32 2014 No.5753072 >>5748295 >Capitalism can't get us into space Then how did we get to the moon?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:48:51 2014 No.5753088 >>5753072 Competition between the USSR and the US, it wasn't because of capitalism it was more nationalism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:51:59 2014 No.5753100 >>5752984 based Anon

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:55:49 2014 No.5753111
File: 27 KB, 500x210, 1415384342597.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5749389
Peasants got by because they had communities. Shit, I'd go back to the '40s London today even if I were poor as shit because of community. Tell me how much community you see in any area that has been affected by immigration. None, and I see it first hand every day when the bus I get on is silent and the place I work is silent and the only time I'm happy is when I'm alone.

Culture=community, shared ideas. Those matter greatly.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 15:59:13 2014 No.5753117

>>5753111
I'm not that guy who's saying culture is bad or dosn't matter, I think that's an indefeasible position.

But I do think that so called "western culture" is becoming increasingly irrelevant and sometimes even disadvantageous in the modern world. It could be replaced by just about anything with no net loss.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:02:05 2014 No.5753124 >>5753117 Western culture is the default culture of most literature, art and entertainment. We don't notice it for the same reason a fish doesn't notice water.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:04:48 2014 No.5753131

>>5753117
CURRENT western culture could (and probably should) be dropped and no one would be upset except for those with a vested interest in the way things are going. Pre-WW2 western culture would be lovely, but of course can't be revived just like that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:08:55 2014 No.5753150 >>5753131 Western culture should be purged of it's Semitic influences.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:09:50 2014 No.5753153 >>5753131 What value do you see in pre WW2 culture? Jus wondering.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:10:03 2014 No.5753155 >>5747978 If we cannot properly say yes and can properly say no, then the answer is yes. We are living in a dystopia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:10:34 2014 No.5753157 >>5752620 quality post

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:11:09 2014 No.5753163

>>5753037
>>Shit I have no rebuttal too: The Post.
>all your arguments boil down to "CONCEPTS AREN'T OBJECTIVE, SO EVERYTHING I SAY IS RIGHT."
Rebuttal? All I had to do is pinpoint to your erroneous nuances of your half-baked quasi-arguments, grievous or miniscule, to render your post laughable. Laughable.

>The Fossil Record
Thanks for letting us know that bacteria have bones.

>[..]any concept only exists in the human mind,
Sorry, it is not as clear-cut as that. Take a look at McDowell's Mind and World.

>it is observable that many animals will pick a specific region to inhabit, and defend it from other animals.
I wasn't denying this. I was objecting, however, that for animals, contrary to humans, it is different. Humans, for the most part, are aware of the fact that their trespassing is illegal. Animals, on the other hand, have no conception of that. If they trespass, it is out of sheer contingency.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:11:29 2014 No.5753164 >>5753150 So no more corned beef with sauerkraut on marble rye? Fuck you, philistine! You will never become a mensch! Let alone an Ubermensch!

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:22:30 2014 No.5753216

>>5753163
You don't need bones to leave fossils. The currently accepted theory is that the oxygen on earth was created by bacteria, and that this caused the first mass extinction. Trees actually did something similar when they first evolved. Man is not the first species to radically alter the atmosphere of the entire planet to it's own demise. Just because you can say "Unverifiable, make-believe propositions. " does not make these positions unverifiable or make believe.

As for animals and territory. Many animals will back down upon receiving a territorial threat display for a larger animal. This isn't really different from human politics if you boil it down. People do what they think they can get away with.
Humans may posses concepts such as "Morality" or "property" but they tend to only use them retroactively to justify the decisions they have already made, rather than use them to make decisions in the first place.

We don't always do this, (If it was true, then consciousness would be a huge waste of energy and unlikely to persist evolutionary) but it hardly makes us special.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:33:09 2014 No.5753277

>>5753216
trees have evolved independently from several plant families at widely separated times. You may be thinking of the evolution of the angiosperms at the end of the cretaceous, especially the monocot Graminae, which greatly increased the availability of easily accessible carbohydrates. And cyanobacteria are closer to algae than anything else.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:40:06 2014 No.5753319

>>5753153
Everyone had a purpose. It might just be that the population has gotten too big and we're all confused and lost, but it was certainly better then than it is now. Still, I wouldn't lead a traditional lifestyle now that I know what could happen to me at any given moment (hoes ain't loyal)

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:40:52 2014 No.5753325

>>5753277
Actually I'm talking about the Devonian when terrestrial plants as we would understand them first evolved, and the Carboniferous, when wood as we would understand it first evolved.

Plants spread across the land, pumped up the atmosphere full of oxygen causing massive fires, and then when they died, they wouldn't decay because nothing had evolved to digest them, so they turned into coal.

Alien archaeologists will say the same thing about our cities millions of years from now.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:44:01 2014 No.5753346

>>5753319
Hmm. well my memories only stretch back as far as the fifties. I don't really see how poverty, disease, unpaved streets and no social infrastructure or safety net is made up for by having a purpose, especially when that purpose for most people was simple survival. And wasn't lack of a goal and disillusionment pretty much the hallmark of the "lost generation" of the prewar years?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:46:11 2014 No.5753361

>>5753216
>Just because you can say "Unverifiable, make-believe propositions. " does not make these positions unverifiable or make believe.
Except that everything you claimed to be true in relation to this, was in the *past* tense. That's what makes those claims to be unverifiable and make-believe. I am not objecting to the theory — I am indifferent to it. I am merely assessing the accuracy of your whims.

>Many animals will back down upon receiving a territorial threat display for a larger animal. This isn't really different from human politics if you boil it down. People do what they think they can get away with.
Besides the point. You are derailing. My whole point was that trespassing animals, contrary to most, cognitively well-functioning humans, are unaware of their trespassing-actions. You were making an analogy to human trespassing, after all.

>Humans may posses concepts such as "Morality" or "property" but they tend to only use them retroactively to justify the decisions they have already made, rather than use them to make decisions in the first place.
You are missing a great fraction of people that actually do make morally-informed decisions and do plan their future actions on the basis of their moral informedness.

>We don't always do this, (If it was true, then consciousness would be a huge waste of energy and unlikely to persist evolutionary) but it hardly makes us special.
No idea what you're on about here.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:48:09 2014 No.5753370

>>5753325
you're talking about gymnosperms and cycads. the plants that pumped the atmosphere full of oxygen weren't trees, they were pelagic and littoral plankton beds. the metabolism of gymnosperms uses up most of the oxygen it makes. It was ice-free oceans and generally longer seasons and warmer oceans that allowed the plankton turnover to outstrip the land organisms (there weren't many of them) to uses up the available oxygen. The primary contribution of the carboniferous terrestrial flora was to tie up carbon, slowing down photosynthesis.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:54:02 2014 No.5753407 >>5753370 >There were... there was... it was... The other goes: >No, actually, there were... there was... it was... Take your unverifiable fantasies of evolutionary biology to >>>/sci/.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 16:56:34 2014 No.5753427 >>5753407 huh? What's unverifiable here? Plant evolution is one of the best and easiest documented types, since pollen grains are virtually indestructible. learn to paleostratigraphy.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:03:32 2014 No.5753470

>>5753427
Claims about past are unverifiable unless you've got a time-machine, the probability of which is close to zilch.

Seriously, I understand that talking about the past without having to account for your claims is empowering, but you have to cut that shit out, if you can't, outside of an explanatory theory, justify any of it empirically.

Go and be a loosely-talking windbag somewhere else. Both of you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:03:45 2014 No.5753472 >>5748003 Business as usual then, only turned up to 11

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:07:03 2014 No.5753494 >>5748510 Cynics like you are a government's best friend

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:17:05 2014 No.5753556 >>5753494 The government is the only thing keeping us from going the way of Somalia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:39:36 2014 No.5753674 >>5753470 >You can't use science in an argument because U CANT KNO NUFIN.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 17:41:08 2014 No.5753683 >>5753470 These are the same people who are arguing that our society is in a decline and that things were better in the past.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 18:25:48 2014 No.5753894

>>5753470
no we're talking about things in the present. pollen distributions in strata. we can infer things about the past of course. if you can't use the past though, you cant say anything about what happened to you yesterday since you (the current you) weren't there and even if a previous version of you was, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:48:43 2014 No.5754179

>>5752984

>Unverifiable, make-believe propositions

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
>Free oxygen is toxic to obligate anaerobic organisms, and the rising concentrations may have wiped out most of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time. Cyanobacteria were therefore responsible for one of the most significant extinction events in Earth's history.

Apparently, science is make believe.

>Unjustified, make-believe assumptions

You're crawling with microorganisms.

>An animal that invades someone's territory, yet has no conception of "territory", is not, strictly speaking, invading it

Ironic that you're making the assumption that they don't feel the same way you do when someone enters their house uninvited.

>You are not an omniscient being — without any mention of a probability-indicating term or phrase, your future-event predictions are literally worthless

So you deny that every single race of humanity has colonized the territory of others? You're unaware of the Indo-European Invasion, the Bantu expansions, or the colonial era?

>Not in the slightest

Are you so naive as to think that the world isn't a competition? Everyone is out to make themselves as powerful as possible, and undercut everyone else.

Why did America pay people to kill Buffalo? To starve the natives, so that they would be forced to play the European's game.

>Thank you for reminding me that for detecting a clinically retarded individual all it takes is to detect a hasty generalization

Ad hominem.

>What?

Sun -> Corn -> Cow -> Human. A trophic level is the position an organism has in a food chain, and humans exist above all other animals in the sense that nothing eats us, and we domesticate and eat whatever we want.

>Are you retarded?

Are you? You're frighteningly scientifically illiterate.

>Both false

But animals do murder, rape and steal whenever they can get away with it. Some species, like parasoid wasps, make their living by using the children of other insects as food for their children. If that isn't murder and theft, what is it?

Rape is also endemic in the animal world. Ducks murder and rape. Certain male insects have evolved to stab their female equivalents, and ejaculate into the wound. And have you ever seen cat sex?

Also, the role of dopamine in motivation is well established. I'm not sure how you could deny the fact, unless you'd never heard of it before.

>Show me the causal link between a dopamine release and me deciding to reply to your post

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine#The_ventral_tegmental_area.2C_reward.2C_and_cognition
>Dopamine is released in areas such as the nucleus accumbens and prefrontal cortex as a result of rewarding experiences such as food, sex, and neutral stimuli that become associated with them

How can you not know this?

>Did you create the Universe to be ascribing teleological properties to animals?

Yep, problem?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 19:54:44 2014 No.5754189 >>5752373 eh, dont frighten me. but we are living a kind of cyberpunk that i dont really like.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:09:56 2014 No.5754233

>>5753072

Capitalism bought ICBM's, and used the bits and pieces sitting around the workshop after they were done to plant a flag on the moon and bring back a few rocks which were sold to the elites of society.

It didn't put the first space station into orbit, the first satellite, or the first man. And when the audience stopped caring, they stopped going to the moon.

>>5753163

>Rebuttal? All I had to do is pinpoint to your erroneous nuances of your half-baked quasi-arguments, grievous or miniscule, to render your post laughable. Laughable

All you did was display ignorance of natural history, biology, and neurology, and insult me.

Also, that poster wasn't me. He just came to my defense. I wonder why?

>Thanks for letting us know that bacteria have bones

Cyanobacteria filled the atmosphere with oxygen. This oxygen allowed huge amounts of energy to be stored in small spaces, allowing animals the energy budget to fuel complex systems.

Mankind is currently filling the environment with all sorts of substances with even larger energy densities. We call these substances 'pollution.' This resembles what the cyanobacteria did in an uncanny way.

If we are to call the world today a dystopia because of this pollution - the only degradation of life which is significant beyond the fleeting stage of human society - than it's been a dystopia since the cyanobacteria turned the world into an oxygenated 'wasteland,' teaming with life complex enough to build computer networks to insult each other over.

You do remember that this is a discussion about whether or not we're living in a dystopia, right?

>I wasn't denying this. I was objecting, however, that for animals, contrary to humans, it is different. Humans, for the most part, are aware of the fact that their trespassing is illegal. Animals, on the other hand, have no conception of that. If they trespass, it is out of sheer contingency

'Trespassing' is an abstraction. It exists only as a word within the minds of the subset of humans who speak English. Yet, whether you walk into the territory of an Australian, a Russian, or a bear, they'll all react the same way.

You've lost yourself in the linguistic model of reality that your society gave you.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:12:33 2014 No.5754242

>>5752462
I hope this post is ironic, this is some Brave New World shit.

It's probably inevitable that Brave New World becomes a reality for the most part. I hear people say that today's men are becoming more "feminine." but that's not true at all, they're becoming more childlike. The same with women, except they've got a bit of a head start. There is, I believe, some happiness found in controlling the most base gratifications, in pushing yourself past former limits, and in maintaining private morality.

These things will be too difficult for the new citizens of the future, who haven't yet appeared. Of course each new generation is a bridge to this new citizenry. Divorce for example, became very common a few decades ago; don't worry about loyalty, about thinking, about trying to fix a relationship in order to bring it to higher levels of intimacy or learn something more. Just run away from the problem when the first hindrance appears, but don't forget to have the new one lined up, as you wouldn't want your dopamine levels to plummet.

For our teenagers,the film Spring Breakers portrays the logical conclusion to this hedonism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:21:32 2014 No.5754267 >>5749984 Your comments read like those of a middle aged man who has lost touch with any form of youth culture completely. And I don't even necessarily disagree with you.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:27:43 2014 No.5754287

>>5754242
Spring Breakers was an awesome movie. I'd rather live in a world filled with bikini clad young women on crime sprees than what we have now.

Maybe I'm just sick, but every time conservatives talk about slippery slopes and degeneracy, I find myself preferring the hyperbole to the world we live in now. It seems less absurd and hypocritical. I'd rather be shot by naked teenagers in that world than grow old and and bitter in this one.

Gay marriage will lead to pedophilia and bestiality? Well now that you think about it, I really don't have any problem with those either.
Wellfare will lead to a society of leaches? Why is our society so obsessed with working for the man?
Black people are inherently violent? This gangster culture you keep complaining about just seems like an expression of master morality.

If our society really is in decline, maybe we should just open up the gates and let the barbarians in. Ride the slippery slopes like waterslides.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:29:45 2014 No.5754290 >>5753072 So the U.S. (capitalism) could have one thing going for them in the Space Race The USSR won on every other account

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:38:46 2014 No.5754326
File: 618 KB, 1193x1823, RocketsOfTheWorld.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5754290
How many successful mars probes has the USSR launched? How many of their probes made it past the asteroid belt.

Which country still exists in the same form.

I'm not arguing about capitalism or communism being better for space travel. But really arguments that the USSR won the space race because they had a better start are absurd. The Souyz and R7 rocket series are some of the best spacecraft in history, but they are not at all representative of the Russian Space agency. Pretty much everything else they launch fails spectacularly.

That said however, Capitalism decided to cancel the SaturnV production once it 'won' the space race, and settled on cheaper unmanned missions once national dickwaving was no longer an issue. This has hurt america's space program as a whole.
Russia on the other hand was smart enough to know when they did something right, and continue to use the Souyz, and use it to pretend they are still a superpower nation.

If america was more socialist, we would have made it to mars by now.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:42:09 2014 No.5754342

>>5754287
What the fuck are you even on about, I was talking about lack of private morality, commitment and dedication, dignity, higher levels of happiness attained through self control.

As for the last part of your post, I can't even begin to agree. Society is more fake than ever. Our propaganda hasn't really worsened, it's the same shit it always was, but people are becoming worse. Subterfuge is the new norm. Make a post on facebook about how you like a band, but maybe you don't like them, you just want someone to think you're hip because you like them, but you don't like them, you just like the social status they can bring you for a few moments. And this is probably the least bad of it all. The very idea that a more egocentric society could somehow be more "real" is completely stupid. And Nietzsche saw Hedonists as the pathetic "last man," not the bearers of master morality. That's where I got my first quote from, a bridge to a different citizenry.

I've lived the party lifestyle, and that's why I love Spring Breakers. It isn't even an exaggeration until the last part of the film. The film isn't saying that that lifestyle is "awesome" it's a satire of it.

As for "gangster" culture, I don't know what the fuck you're even on about.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:42:16 2014 No.5754344

>>5754179
>>Free oxygen is toxic to obligate anaerobic organisms, and the rising concentrations may have wiped out most of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time. Cyanobacteria were therefore responsible for one of the most significant extinction events in Earth's history.

>may have wiped out
. . .
>therefore

Come to think of it, my original post might have gone over your head, despite it's laconic, but apropos nature. Do you know what a proposition is? Do you know what makes a proposition a true proposition? Do you know what verification is? Do you know what a scientifically explanatory theory consists of, structurally speaking?

Your appeal to "science" here is no more authoritarian than the marketers "scientifically proven".

>You're crawling with microorganisms.
Contextual comprehension: none. Since when microorganisms work for NSA and are capable of spying?

>you're making the assumption that they don't feel the same way you do when someone enters their house uninvited.
Except I wasn't arguing for that. Read my later posts; the guy I was responding to was pulling similar strawman interpretations out of his ass.

>you deny that every single race of humanity has colonized the territory of others? You're unaware of the Indo-European Invasion, the Bantu expansions, or the colonial era?
No, I do not deny that. Work on your reading comprehension. And nor am I interested in History; most History-inclined (especially to war-like and geopolitical themes) intellectuals are irrational windbags.

>Are you so naive as to think that the world isn't a competition?
Besides the point. A certain portion of the world is indeed in constant competition, but that doesn't give you the license to infer that all of the world is such.

>Everyone is out to make themselves as powerful as possible, and undercut everyone else.
Read above.

>Ad hominem.
Thanks for the laugh, sport. Your argument was unsalvageable to begin with.

>You're frighteningly scientifically illiterate.
My objecting to your falsehoods and inarticulate gobbledygook doesn't necessarily imply me being scientifically illiterate. In all probability, I know more about it than you currently, and possibly ever, will.

>Also, the role of dopamine in motivation is well established. I'm not sure how you could deny the fact, unless you'd never heard of it before.
You literally cannot function in the abstraction I am functioning. You are too stupid in your development to grasp anything beyond rudimentary neuroscience and copy-pasting fragments of Wikipedia. Read again what I said about causal linkage.

/lit/, get your shit together: what kind of blockheads are you producing as of late?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:45:49 2014 No.5754359 >>5754287 >maybe we should just open up the gates and let the barbarians in Honk honk, you are the barbarians.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:48:58 2014 No.5754370 >>5754344 It's like a bad parody of /lit/'s pretentiousness.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:50:38 2014 No.5754380 >>5754242 >>5754287 samefag detected

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:51:55 2014 No.5754385 >>5754380 Those two posters appear to be arguing with each other anon. Do you mean one of them is a strawman sockpupet?

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:55:42 2014 No.5754399

>>5754233
>ignorance of natural history, biology, and neurology
I may be ignorant of them, but you kept churning out falsehoods, one after another. Why not be a tad more articulate and avoid such pitfalls? I don't know what kind of world you are living in, but in the world I live, each proposition has a structure that, upon evaluation, reveals whether the proposition is true or not. Do you, supposedly scientifically erudite person, not give one iota about truth? Or all that you care about is telling people stories -- stories (factual or not) that you have read on Wikipedia?

>'Trespassing' is an abstraction. It exists only as a word within the minds of the subset of humans who speak English. Yet, whether you walk into the territory of an Australian, a Russian, or a bear, they'll all react the same way.
Another strawman. You, and others along you, are still missing my point about this. Read my other posts.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 20:56:55 2014 No.5754404 >>5754370 >I can't muster up a defense >His prose is aesthetically unacceptable to my sensibilities . . . >P R E T E N T I O U S

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:02:14 2014 No.5754419 >>5754399 Whereas you on the other hand, reads a few Wikipedia articles on propositional logic and uses them to talk about things you don't understand.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:02:49 2014 No.5754420 File: 783 KB, 950x7583, 1984 vs BNW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying dystopias have to be hellacious

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:03:02 2014 No.5754423

>>5748288
>Why do you condemn humanity - your own flesh and blood - yet ignore that these horrors are innate to biology?
Because we can actually reason and it has been proven that we can repress our instinctual impulses, you jackass. If you wish to still be called an animal, go to Autralia to live with the koalas.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:06:28 2014 No.5754432 File: 783 KB, 950x7583, 1984 vs BNW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying dystopian societies have to be nightmares

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:08:57 2014 No.5754441

>>5754423
Denying ones own impulses is foolish. Yes man is capable of being more than just an animal, but all his greater traits are built on top of a foundation laid out by a billion years of evolution. If you don't want to be an animal, you'll never be a full man.

The idea that human urges are sinful and must be repressed are Abrahamic bullshit.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:09:44 2014 No.5754444

>>5748295
>..and if he parks an asteroid in orbit all he's going to do is destroy his economy like the Spanish did with their stolen native American gold.
Spanish economy was destroyed not because high shipping costs or your "lack of competition" theory. It was because they were ruled by idiots who didn't know how to spend money. They could have been a great empire, but idiocy didn't let them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:10:40 2014 No.5754448 File: 783 KB, 950x7583, 1984 vs BNW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5747978 >2014 >people still think dystopias only exist as nightmarish societies

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:10:43 2014 No.5754449 >>5754441 So, champ, how many women have you raped in total? Indicate the mortal status of their bodies, too, if you can.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:12:13 2014 No.5754457 >>5749262 Nobody takes Berlusconi seriously. But you do have a point. When places like France or Chile are falling due to leftist ideals, you know people will chose its counterpart sooner or later.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:18:08 2014 No.5754475

>>5754449
I haven't raped or killed anybody because the desire not to commit the act of violence than the desire to commit the violence. In truth I see to be a very gentle person who rarely commits acts of violence, but that doesn't mean I never get mad or fantasize about having sex with women I see on the street.
There is a difference between foolishly act on every impulse for short term gain, and denying the impulse entirely.

As a human animal, I understand the urge to procreate and experience pleasure, I also understand how that urge can be channeled constructively. What I don't do is hate myself for possessing emotions, which is the ultimate result of the Abrahamic religions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:20:21 2014 No.5754482 >>5747978 Do you live in America? Then no you whiny cunt.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:23:10 2014 No.5754489 >>5750816 Such as???

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:28:15 2014 No.5754508

>>5754475
>>5754441
It seems i misundertood your point. Yes, instinctual impulses should used as a "kick" to get to something, but listing to them literally and killing someone because he has something i want or raping a desirable individual goes against what we as humans have done over the years.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:40:29 2014 No.5754543 File: 261 KB, 300x306, bravisimo.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5748295 Well done.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:49:11 2014 No.5754571

>>5754508
Not really. In our culture killing somebody to take what he wants rarely achieves a desirable result. But I think it's arrogant to say that this is the only way a "Civilized" man should act.

I probably wouldn't be very good at it, and wouldn't recommend it in this society. But for a Yanomami warrior, killing another man and raping his wife is considered normal. (or at least bragging about such actions is)
Calling them less civilized than us because of that is foolish. It works in the context of their culture, and they don't waste brain cells thinking about pointless things like we do.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:50:42 2014 No.5754575 >>5753124 Except, in the case, the water transported itself all over the world trying to flood every landscape and then make narcissistic statements about how it's the best.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 21:51:43 2014 No.5754581 >>5753157 Damn right it is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:11:18 2014 No.5754809 >>5750303 "socialist" economy No, the alternative is democratic worker owership, as it has always been The leninist/bureaucratic deviations under socialism's name never actually changed what socialism was

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:13:26 2014 No.5754816

>>5754457
"France and Chile are failing due to leftist policies"
m8 i can't speak for France, although i do know that it is above average for inequality, hardly leftist, but Chile tried right wing economics under a dictatorship in the 70s, it fucked up so hard that the government had to re-nationalise everything that was nationalised under the "marxist" who the dictatorship was set up to overthrow.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:14:42 2014 No.5754821 I've been feeling like shit for most of my life, and its starting to manifest physically, but apparently I have it good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:14:58 2014 No.5754824 >>5754809 Whether or not you consider it a misnomer, the vast majority of academic texts on the Soviet Union or its satellite states refer to the economy by that word.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:19:24 2014 No.5754845

>>5754824
whether or not thats true, its pretty clear these days that with the exception of Trots most socialists obviously don't want a return to USSR economic policies but democratic ownership. That's why i was calling out the "fuck socialism" person for being a moron, the people who made the best critiques of modern society as alienated and boring from a left wing perspective were just as harsh in judging the bureaucratic nightmares of the eastern bloc.

It simply isn't what socialism is, and to pretend that state ownership is the only alternative to capitalism is ridiculous

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:21:03 2014 No.5754851

>>5749962

"Hedonistic", "decadent" imagery sells products

It has to be tempered to a certain amount so that imagery doesn't become tired or cliched (much media from the 1980s is an example of this)

>when you're older and worried about raising your kids
>implying you have to shelter them

Maybe, just maybe, it's possible to be a responsible parent and explain to your children the context of the images, ideas and events they are exposed to. Parents seem to assume that you either have to shelter and overprotect your children or let them become decadent hooligans, but there is a middle ground where you can let them be exposed to whatever (and believe me, they are - kids talk amongst each other about having sex in the fourth grade, for fucks' sake) but explain to them what's appropriate when, and what isn't.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:25:08 2014 No.5754865 File: 62 KB, 500x650, ggg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5754824 It was socialism alright. It was statist vanguardic Marxist-derived socialism; a recipe for disaster.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:27:27 2014 No.5754871

>>5754865
Not sure what this go is, i am an anarchist.

But really by no means could the USSR be considered socialist. The word literally means "democratic worker ownership", in the soviet union it was "totalitarian bureaucrat/state ownership". The two bear nothing in common.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:29:25 2014 No.5754879 >>5754871 I'm not the kind of guy who rejects symptoms or systemic flaws. Congo is also capitalism, as Zizek would say.

Anonymous Thu Nov 20 23:39:29 2014 No.5754918
File: 98 KB, 678x424, cm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5754871
>But really by no means could the USSR be considered socialist. The word literally means "democratic worker ownership", in the soviet union it was "totalitarian bureaucrat/state ownership". The two bear nothing in common.
Except in the statist mind, including Marx, state ownership under a proletarian dictatorship is democratic ownership.

The average idiot claims Marxist socialism sounds good in theory, but it actually doesn't.

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:01:44 2014 No.5755031

>>5754918
>taking the manifesto seriously
You realise that that was written when Marx was 30, well before any of the sophisticated theoretical work that is "marxism" even came to exist? The manifesto is a polemic, not a serious work of analysis.

The analysis was in capital, where he explicitly, and Engels after him, repudiates state ownership as it occurred in the USSR. Besides, i'm not even a marxist, don't ask me to defend that marxism doesn't have too high potential to become like that, i think it does, its just that the USSR looked absolutely nothing like marxist theory, and wasn't socialist by any means of the word.

Even if one conceives of state ownership as potentially socialistic, that could only be true if the state was exceedingly democratic, which the USSR wasn't.

>>5754879
Literally nonsense. Try reading less crit theory and Zizeck.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:14:20 2014 No.5755087 >>5752984 you fucking dumbfuck you didnt even counter anything he said you just said "nu-uh" and "prove it"

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:40:44 2014 No.5755178

>>5754489
such as the right angle of a hypotenus being equal to the sum of the sqares of the other sides.

BAM!!! YOU JUST GOT SOME KNOWELDGE BOMBS DROPPED ON YOUR ASS!!!

oh, and Kermit Roosevelt helped play king maker in Iran after WWII, much like the British Empire had back in the 1800s during the Great Game with Russia.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 00:47:22 2014 No.5755196 >>5755178 >Kermit lol

Anonymous Fri Nov 21 13:18:49 2014 No.5756809

>>5754571
>Calling them less civilized than us because of that is foolish. It works in the context of their culture, and they don't waste brain cells thinking about pointless things like we do.

They are less civilized. Nobody knows what a Yanomami is and if their lineage is discontinued nobody will give a fuck either. It isn't considered a civilization compared to USA which is #1. However, considering your ultra leftwing anti imperialism ideologists it would be foolish to call them less civilized.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 13:28:56 2014 No.5756823 >>5756809 Says a member of the american civilization.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 14:53:22 2014 No.5757064 >>5756823 This is not an argument and not true either.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 20:57:00 2014 No.5758356 >>5757064 If you aren't an American, then it's even worse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 21 21:13:44 2014 No.5758433 >>5752000 >What country was better off 100 years ago >When the Great War was starting? I see what you did thar.

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/lit/ - Literature