/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5717708]

Everyone talks about nihilism, but nobody is a card carrying nihilist, it seems. It's mostly an accusation.

Is there any actual nihilist literature? People who call themselves nihilists and write about their perspectives?

Nietzsche is like I'm a half nihilist but not really so here is my ideal.

Cioran is like le nihilisme but is ultimately a pessimist, not a nihilist, value judgements all around.

Who are the real faithful nihilists? Which books can I read by them? Who of them doesn't lapse into moralism?

[Anonymous No.5717743]

Please help lads, this is a serious matter.

[Anonymous No.5717755]

Nihilism is stupid.

The world has no meaning? Morals are spooky? Prove it. Nihilists make value (albeit negative) judgments as much as anyone.

Skeptic master race.

[Anonymous No.5717757]

>>5717755
Sceptics are de facto nihilists.

[Anonymous No.5717761]

>>5717757
True, but they withhold their judgment.

This frees the skeptic.

[Anonymous No.5717764]

>>5717755
>The world has no meaning? Morals are spooky? Prove it.
The burden of proof doesn't lie with the nihilists homie, and you know that. Prove that the world has meaning and I'll believe it.

[Anonymous No.5717768]

>>5717761
Only in theory, m8. Pyrrho was all about adhering to customs because he couldn't think of anything else.

[Anonymous No.5717776]

>>5717764
That's what skeptics do though. They say I don't know if it has meaning, or if it does not.

>>5717768
We can build upon what he did get right.

[Anonymous No.5717819]

All the true nihilists committed suicide

[Anonymous No.5717824]

Nihilism isn't a position you espouse, it is a failure, a trap you can't think your way out of.

[Anonymous No.5717828]

>>5717776
>We can build upon what he did get right.
I agree. But it's just a Sadean orgy. Sade was the most sensible thinker since Hellenism.

[Anonymous No.5717831]

Real nihilists?

Michel Houllebecq (Whatever, Platform, Map & the Territory were all great)
Max Stirner (Ego and Its Own)
Ivan Goncharov (Read Oblomov)
Celine is a great big nihilist but i found him very hard to read and gave up


As far as I know, none of them are moralfags

[Anonymous No.5717851]

Buddhism could be seen as nihilism, although Buddhists will abhor the connection.

Buddhism is literally the way to the complete extinction of all self and consciousness, it's like a map to nothingness. If that's not nihilism, I don't even...

[Anonymous No.5717898]

>>5717851
Please, Buddhists clearly think suffering is to be avoided at all cost.

[Anonymous No.5717901]

>>5717828
>I am fourteen

[Anonymous No.5717906]

>>5717708
if someone asked me, i would say i am. but i dont think i really need to say it to everyone i know. no point in doing that. no point in commenting here either, so i guess if i were a true nihilist i would have just killed myself already so maybe im just a phony.

and what camus says about the absurd is just bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5717908]

>>5717901
Give him time, anon.

[Anonymous No.5717914]

Nietzsche used 'nihilism' as a label, it isn't a philosophical school one subscribes to. He labelled the religious and especially christians as nihilists but I bet if you asked any christian they would say they are not.
Nihilism isn't described as a positive state of mind, it's failure and taking the easy way out.

[Anonymous No.5718086]

bump

[Anonymous No.5718090]

>>5717708
It seems to me like you take Cioran too seriously. People that call him an atheist mystic have the right to do so, but they should consider the possibility that his value judgements are just thought experiments, lyricisms and dramatizations and that he is ultimately just a fancy nihilist, not some metaphysical pessimist. And a regular run of the mill pessimist is compatible with nihilism I think.

The way Nietzsche uses this label should seriously get us thinking about it. You can believe that existence has no meaning (no Becoming towards something for instance) and still be a Christian for example.

[Anonymous No.5718104]

Antinatalists are pretty Nihilistic. Don't know if they use that word to describe themselves though. They seem to think demonizing mothers and poor people makes them more empathetic than everyone else.

[Anonymous No.5718376]

>>5718104

I was going to say Ligotti and Cioran, also Zappfe.

>demonizing poor people

Wait, who does this?

[Anonymous No.5718384]

>>5717708
>>5717831
Most good postwar Japanese writers at least explore nihilism in their books, which is why everybody just kills themselves in the literature.

[Anonymous No.5718392]

>>5718376
Antinatalists, they claim that everyone should stop reproducing, but their rhetoric is obsessed with starving children in Africa, and women who "Shit out babies." The fact that this phelosophy seems most common among depressed white teenage boys is telling.

[Anonymous No.5718395]

>>5718392

No, I mean give me a name or a specific quote. I'm far from well-versed in antinatalism but unless you're talking out your ass you should be able to back up your statements with citations.

[Anonymous No.5718397]

>>5717898
>at all cost

[Anonymous No.5718408]

>>5717914

Holy shit?! Someone actually didn't misinterpret Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.5718422]

>>5718395
It's hard to cite 4chan posts. But a lot of them include the phrase "Shitting out children like dumb animals."

Maybe Antinatalists are better outside of 4chan. But the ones here make it look like an edgy philosophy for pessimistic white teenagers who want to be able to hide behind faux empathy.

[Anonymous No.5718426]

It is highly unlikely that the universe has meaning as the idea of God has been pretty much debunked.

[Anonymous No.5718427]

>>5718426
Sure the idea of God might be debunked, but that doesn't mean the real God is debunked.

[Anonymous No.5718436]

>>5718427
Way to beg the question, there. But God most likely does not exist.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11161493

[Anonymous No.5718454]

>2014
>believing in transcendental moral values or objective meaning/purpose/becoming
>thinking nihilism is something to be ashamed of

[Anonymous No.5718465]

>>5718454
>b-b-but now how will I get a job at a university

[Anonymous No.5718472]

>>5718436
>based on some guy using some faulty logic

All they disprove was the idea that god exist, not god's existence.

[Anonymous No.5718477]

>>5718472
>faulty logic
How so?
>All they disprove was the idea that god exist, not god's existence.
No, they pretty much determined that the universe came from nothing. No need for God.

[Anonymous No.5718485]

>>5718397
Well, do they not give up everything in pursuit of nirvana?

[Anonymous No.5718494]

I feel like most philosophers acknowledge nihilism as a basic extension of existential crisis, but then their work is centered around defining their own basis for morality in response to nihilism.
It's why "nihilist" is more of an accusation now, it's seen as a juvenile intermediary step to basic existential philosophy.

I suppose if you really wanted to find a genuine nihilist you'd have to talk to a legitimate sociopath, someone who doesn't value morality or purpose to any extent. Even then, they generally find self-purpose in the subjugation of others, which would be in conflict with nihilism.

[Anonymous No.5718495]

>>5718436
Nothing in either of those links disproves the existence of God. Indeed, you can use the arguments in both of those links to REINFORCE the existence of God, or at least I can with a little imagination.

[Anonymous No.5718498]

>>5718495
First theists conceded that God does not intervene in our lives. Now they concede that God did not create the universe. So what does God do?

[Anonymous No.5718503]

>>5718477
>pretty much determined that the universe came from nothing
Thats a very contentious statement even in science.

[Anonymous No.5718504]

>>5718422

Nice backtracking, Anon. Going from "All antinatalists are a shit" to "people who claim to be antinatalists on 4chan are a shit"

Nice to know you making sweeping unfounded generalizations about entire schools of philosophy based on what anonymous people post on a chinese cartoon image board.

[Anonymous No.5718507]

>>5718498
You can't really take the argument of select theists and apply it to such a large debate on the existence of God. At this point you're arguing against those specific theists arguments, and not necessarily the existence of God.

[Anonymous No.5718508]

>>5718485
>give up everything

[Anonymous No.5718512]

>>5718508
You know what I mean. If you cease to desire, you cease to act.

[Anonymous No.5718514]

>>5718498
I, myself, concede neither proposition. God does in fact intervene in our lives. Maybe you just need to pray more.

[Anonymous No.5718518]

>>5718507
So tell me what God does and I will show you what actually does that.
>>5718503
Not when you consider current evidence.

[Anonymous No.5718522]

>>5718512
>cease to desire
>cease to act
Are you actually retarded or just very inarticulate/not wellread?

[Anonymous No.5718525]

>>5718518
Actually the current evidence is what causes that. The current (latest from the theoretical mill) model supposes that the universe may very well have been in existence since forever.

[B) No.5718526]

>>5718512
I love smartphones and the internet because if you want to look up any quote you can type in some keywords and the title and read entire passages whenever you want

[Anonymous No.5718531]

>>5718514
Prove to me that praying will reveal God to me.

[Anonymous No.5718571]

>>5718522
What is so hard to understand about what I'm saying?

[Anonymous No.5718672]

>>5718531
I can tell you that I have found things I thought forever lost, learned things I thought I would never comprehend, and realized dreams I thought were out of reach through prayer. But I haven't strictly gotten what I've wanted, rather what I've needed. You don't have any reason to believe me, though.

The only proof of God acting in the name of those who call upon him is for you to give it a try yourself.

>Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

[Anonymous No.5718710]

>>5718477
>No need for God
exactly, that doesn't disprove the existence of a God, only the necessity of one...

[PRAISE JESUS FOREVER No.5718712]

>>5718672
AMEN BROTHER, KEEP PREACHIN

[Anonymous No.5718751]

>>5717914
Finally. If anything, Nietzsche used nihilism as an accusation as much as anyone else.

[Anonymous No.5718768]

Nihil Unbound is extremely nihilist, about basically everything you could be nihilist about

[Anonymous No.5719185]

>>5717764
If the world didn't have meaning, we wouldn't be able to know it, just like if it didn't have any light, there wouldn't be creatures with eyes and therefore no one to know it was dark.

[Anonymous No.5719832]

>>5718672
describe how you have realised dreams through prayer pls

[Anonymous No.5721018]

>>5718422
that damage control

[Anonymous No.5721049]

Cat's Cradle has a pretty humorous description of a fictional nihilist and his actions, though they seem more accurately to be the actions of an absurdist rather than a nihilist.

[Anonymous No.5721057]

Cat's Cradle has a pretty humorous description of a fictional nihilist and his actions, though they seem more accurately to be the actions of an absurdist rather than a nihilist.