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/lit/ - Literature

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5693546 No.5693546 [Reply] [Original]

So I'm reading The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russel, and his critique of philosophers he doesn't like is a joke.

>PLATO WAS A FASCIST!!!
>ROUSSEAU WAS A FASCIST!!!
>NIETZSCHE WAS A FASCIST!!!!
>ALL CONTINENTAL PHILOSOPHERS ARE FASCIST!!!!

Why do fedoras worship this hack?

>> No.5693559

They were. You're just a cuntinental faggot who can't handle the fact that your failosophers were all hacks and their ideas were all failures

>> No.5693560

because
>muh euphoric teapot

>> No.5693563

Think about the context. He was righting during World War II and all around the world was oppression of the people and fascism galore. He was in this libertarian power-to-the-people mindset while writing the book.

And how was Nietzsche NOT a fascist? He did call the majority of people the "bungled and botched" and wanted a ruling class of aristocratic art geniuses to rule over the stupid simpletons.

>> No.5693564

>>5693546

Russell placed all of his bets on mathematics, inheriting the puritan view of Genesis, that the fall did not just inhibit our moral faculties, but also our senses, and that we needed instrumentalism empericism, namely western science, to succeed. It is neo christianity.

Heidegger saw this for what it was, namely, objectification and misery, and rallied against it, citing poetry, meditation (not new age garbage, just thinking) and thinking the truth of 'Being' as a way to escape the trajectory on which western culture, rapidly become global culture, was on,.

Western science, analytic philosophy, and anything that removes human emotion and feelings from the mix in search of a manufactured objectivity, based on faith principles is intellectual poison. ]

Continental philosophy isn't a 'thing' but I suppose its a well established term to try and group any anti-enlightenment ideas together.

Just devote your lives to Heidegger and try and finish his though, ignore this bullshit if you ever want a chance at being happy.

>> No.5693566
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5693566

>>5693563
>righting

opinion disregarded

>> No.5693570

>>5693564
>Continental philosophy isn't a 'thing'

Neither is your heterosexuality

>> No.5693587

I'm pretty sure even people who like Russel can concede that his History kind of goes to shit around the time he reaches Kant, Hegel and Nietzsche. He misunderstands entire concepts that even the majority of undergraduates can grasp, which is pretty embarrassing.

>> No.5693595
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5693595

>>5693566
nice dubs

>> No.5693613

>>5693587
I found the chapters on the history of the classical and medieval world the best parts of the book. How he linked that to trends in philosophy was very interesting.

>> No.5693618

>>5693613
Yeah, I think he did a good job in those parts. But it's around the time period the split between 'Continental' and 'Analytic" philosophy became recognizable that he starts to show way to much personal bias.

>> No.5693623

>>5693564
>continental
>anti-enlightenment

Care to elaborate? I see where you're coming from when it comes to things like the omnipotence of reason, science and liberal capitalism, but I find it hard to simply call it anti-. It seems as if it is a part of the same stream, only as a more 'evolved' form, a kind of 'post-enlightenment'.

>> No.5693631

>trying to split philosophers from before the 20th century into analytic and continental

You're all morons.

>> No.5693656

>>5693587
>>5693613
>>5693618
Oddly, I find his blatant bias refreshing and actually a fairly clear representation.

I mean, I disagree with Russell but when you account for the fact that he was essentially in competition with the later philosophies and that he's biased against all of them equally for that reason... you get a decent overview of it all.

>> No.5693659

He was a dumb faggot.

>> No.5693663

>>5693623
Heidegger is definitely anti-philosophy in general. His essay Existence and Being is probably the easiest and best entry into his 'new thinking.' etc.

It's the failure of the 'continental tag.' Post reason, anti reason, there a multitudes of different schools within what people pejoratively deem 'continental philosophy.'

Just one look at society tells you 'reason' hasnt worked, yet all modern criticism of it seems to be 'yeah it hasn't worked, but it can.' So we're back to idealism anyway

>> No.5694301

Russell was a joke

>> No.5694318

>>5693563
>righting
>nietzsche was a fascist
Jesus christ, come on man.

>> No.5694325

He's actually right about all those things and you're dumb.

>> No.5694352

>>5693546
>people criticizing bertrand russell as though their ideas are worth anything

know your places, faggots, seriously.

>> No.5694362

>>5694352
>you can't criticize him because you aren't as well known as he is!

Such a brainless and lazy way of dealing with criticism.

>> No.5694366

>>5693560
Christians like you are the fucking worst. Yes, the teapot isn't the best argument, but you have no ontological justification for objects that you cannot sense.

Stop posting >muh fucking fedora faggotry in lieu of intelligent discussion

>> No.5694374

>>5694362
Read yourself, retard. You're saying nothing besides:
>Bertrand Russel a shit
Such a brainless and lazy way to criticize.

>> No.5694486

>>5693563
>He was in this libertarian power-to-the-people

But he supported the idea of a world goverment

>> No.5694491
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5694491

>that Nietzsche and Buddha conversation

>> No.5694513

>>5693564
>Western science, analytic philosophy, and anything that removes human emotion and feelings from the mix in search of a manufactured objectivity, based on faith principles is intellectual poison.
here's to that, anon!

>> No.5694530

>>5693663
>Just one look at society tells you 'reason' hasn't worked, yet all modern criticism of it seems to be 'yeah it hasn't worked, but it can.'
glad to have read that after speaking to someone with far too much faith in reason today. thanks

>> No.5694531

>>5693563
This is one of the worst misinterpretation of Nietzsche I've seen here, which is quite a feat.

I hope that at least you haven't read any Nietzsche, so that your retardedness could pass as mere ignorance.

>> No.5694541

>>5693570
Glad to see two people agreeing on /lit. This isn't so common.

>> No.5694550

>>5693546
Nietzsche was a fascist though

Everyone just likes to pretend he was arguing the opposite of what he said

>> No.5694569

>>5694550
Nietzsche was nowhere even close to being anything that resembles a nationalist, which is a huge element in facism. Go ahead and explain how he was though since I know you're full of shit.

>> No.5694571

>>5693656
I find your argument a bit wierd. Being equally biased against everything isn't the same thing as being fair. Equal treatment doesn't always mean fairness. It's not like a biased account is merely "unbiased account + bias". In most cases the bias is an integral part of the take of a thinker on a subject, and you can't really get rid of it unless you compare it to other accounts of the same thing.

>>5694352
>>5694362
>>5694374
You're both lazy retards, just kill each other quickly and stay silent.

>> No.5694580

>>5694550
>Nietzsche disparaged the "Deutschland über alles" mindset in Genealogy of Morals
>he said that everything the state possesses it had stolen it
>he was one of the first to expose and criticize in detail the effects of herd mentality on the changes in morality

How does that fit in the romantic ideal of a united nation with a united people under a strong state ?

>> No.5694734 [DELETED] 

>>5694711
Do they include data on general dumbness ?

>> No.5696150

>>5693563
Being alive during WWII is no excuse to be a fucking idiot.

>> No.5696157

>>5694550
Nietzsche was an elitist. Believing in hierarchies doesnt make you a fascist.

>> No.5696164

>>5694569
>Nietzsche was nowhere even close to being anything that resembles a nationalist, which is a huge element in facism.

No it isn't, at least not in the regular sense of the word.

>Nationalism, in fact, founds the State on the concept of nation, the nation being an entity which transcends the will and the life of the individual because it is conceived as objectively existing apart from the consciousness of individuals, existing even if the individual does nothing to bring it into being. For the nationalist, the nation exists not by virtue of the citizen's will, but as datum, a fact, of nature.

>For Fascism, on the contrary, the State is a wholly spiritual creation. It is a national State, because, from the Fascist point of view, the nation itself is a creation of the mind and is not a material presupposition, is not a datum of nature. The nation, says the Fascist, is never really made; neither, therefore, can the State attain an absolute form, since it is merely the nation in the latter's concrete, political manifestation. For the Fascist, the State is always in fieri. It is in our hands, wholly; whence our very serious responsibility towards it.

-Giovanni Gentile, The Philosophic Basis of Fascism

>> No.5696379

>>5696164
National Socialism gets tossed in with Fascism all the time, especially by marxists.

>> No.5696451

>>5693563

Subscribing to the concept of the overman does not, in itself, make one a fascist, nor does wanting to kill off undesirables or other such edgy ideas.

Nietzsche was an elitist for sure, and some of his ideas were incorporated in later fascist ideologies, but to say that Nietzsche would have supported shit like corporatism, collectivism and militarism is a bit of a stretch, m8.

>> No.5696492

>>5696451
This is a good point. Fascism is a "mass" ideology, while I get the idea that Nietzsche was an elitist, I think he would have been more in agreement with aristocracies (maybe like the Roman Republic) and private states, than something like Fascism.

>> No.5696496

>>5696379
Communism gets tossed in with liberalism all the time.

>>5696451
He was surely a militarist. I don't know how he would have felt about corporatism, but he certainly detested collectivism.

>>5696492
Bonaparte.

>> No.5696502

People still read this shit and claim It's great, when will it stop?

Read Copleston or Anthony Kenny for historical overviews

>> No.5696513
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5696513

>>5693564
>Heidegger saw this for what it was, namely, objectification and misery, and rallied against it, citing poetry, meditation (not new age garbage, just thinking) and thinking the truth of 'Being'
Holy shit. If this is true, how hilarious. No wonder continental philosophy isn't taught in universities anymore.

>> No.5696561

>>5696513
>'if this is true.'
>thinks continental philosophy isn't taught anymore

I dunno if its too early, but I think we can announce pleb of the year

>> No.5696564

>>5694571
Never said Russel was fair, just clear.

Russel's "History of Western Philosophy" is better as a supplemental text, by no means should it be one's sole or even introductory account of philosophy.

>> No.5696584

it's not that i dont think hegel had anything interesting to say...it's just that he was an awful writer

>> No.5696591

>>5693564
>le anthropocentric vitalism face
Grow up.

>> No.5696627

>>5696561
Outside of high school theology classes philosophy is dominated entirely by real philosophy (analytic).

>> No.5696665

>>5696627
Have you ever stepped foot on a college campus?

>> No.5696669

>>5696665
also, for that matter,
>high school theology classes
Have you ever stepped foot in a high school?

>> No.5696679

>>5696665
>college
Oh, you're American. No wonder your schools are so dumb.
>>5696669
I took theology in college (year 12).

>> No.5698153

>>5693546
>So I'm reading The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russel
Ahahahaha why would you do that?

>> No.5698179

>>5693663
>Just one look at society tells you 'reason' hasnt worked

Because nobody reasons.

>> No.5698202

>>5698179
Thsi is why it's retarded to make of reason the base of our society.