/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5656429]

Ok /lit/ from all the books you've read, what is the ideal way of living?

[Anonymous No.5656439]

Reading good books, watching good films, listening to good music and the best part is finding out what 'good' means to you. Having friends who you can discuss things with is a bonus.

[Anonymous No.5656459]

Hedonism.

[AnelCrest !m9jxTLhLcw No.5656462]

>>5656429
Being a faggot and shitposting on some weeaboo imageboard.

[Anonymous No.5656464]

>>5656462
This
zzzzzzz

[Anonymous No.5656468]

>>5656462
You're so cool. I bet you were smoking with a strained smile on your face as you typed that out on the keyboard next to your hot cup of black coffee. You smile because life is absurd, not because it is pleasant. I wish I was like you.

[Anonymous No.5656477]

>>5656429
Epicureanism

[Anonymous No.5656483]

>>5656477
I agree, simply Epicurean my good sir.

[Anonymous No.5656529]

Full Communism.

[Anonymous No.5656577]

>>5656477
whats that

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.5656585]

>>5656577
The best philosophy.

[Anonymous No.5656752]

>>5656529

true communism is literally the perfect world.
god help us if we get there

[Anonymous No.5656755]

>>5656529
This guy gets it

[Anonymous No.5656758]

>>5656585
>philosophy
More like truth, find me 1 instance of a person not acting in an epicurean way, you literally cannot work against your own desire for happiness, be it temporary or not.

[Anonymous No.5656765]

>>5656439
>Reading good books, watching good films, listening to good music
Checked. My life still sucks.

[Anonymous No.5656767]

>>5656439
>Life is consuming products

[Anonymous No.5656770]

>>5656767
better than creating them

[Anonymous No.5656771]

>>5656770
I wish I could create something.

[Anonymous No.5656775]

>>5656767
The fact that you see those activities as merely 'consuming products' says more about you than it does about my post.

[Anonymous No.5656782]

>>5656775
Were those parts of pre capitalist society? Are those things tied to an exploitative production system that only keeps art around to validate itself? Are you doing something besides just swallowing content?

[Anonymous No.5656788]

>>5656767
Baudrillard pls go

[Anonymous No.5656797]

The Christian way, i.e. Jean Valjean's way.

[Anonymous No.5656802]

>>5656788
no

[Anonymous No.5656807]

>>5656782
>Were those parts of pre capitalist society?
Books and music were.
Film wasn't, but that is merely a technological issue.
>Are those things tied to an exploitative production system.
They are, but not inherently.
>that only keeps art around to validate itself?
Do you mean that captalism retains art to validate itself or are you making a point about the uselessness of art?
>Are you doing something besides just swallowing content?
Maybe that is how it is within your worldview, to me I am having experiences.

What is the good life to you? Once we have attained the utopia that you desire, what is the good life?

[Anonymous No.5656854]

>>5656807
>books
Not in the same way they are now. You have a really small amount at your disposal, oral narration was bigger
>music
if you had the chance to get to hear some, it was a pretty different relationship than the one we have now
>validation through art
Mediums tie themselves to art to create the idea that they are art (hence so many dumbasses asking if videogames can be art as if the medium could or couldn't be art). Hollywood keeps around directors that lose money to give the idea that they aren't just exploiting you emotions, same with most mediums. For each serious investigation on music you have millions of shit made to trick your head into getting hooked to a product.

>I'm having experiences
So is a vegetative man in bed watching tv. Just having consumist experiences is the most pathetic hedonism.

>Once we have attained the utopia that you desire
By definition utopias are impossible so i don't desire any. I just prefer knowing the world I live in.

[Anonymous No.5656870]

>>5656854
>>books
>Not in the same way they are now. You have a really small amount at your disposal, oral narration was bigger
>>music
>if you had the chance to get to hear some, it was a pretty different relationship than the one we have now
My point is that, these methods of communication (if we want to define it in such a vulgar way) are not tied to the system, they would not dissapear outside of capitalism.
Mediums tie themselves to art to create the idea that they are art (hence so many dumbasses asking if videogames can be art as if the medium could or couldn't be art). >Hollywood keeps around directors that lose money to give the idea that they aren't just exploiting you emotions, same with most mediums. For each serious investigation on music you have millions of shit made to trick your head into getting hooked to a product.
I do not disagree with this sentiment at all.
>Just having consumist experiences is the most pathetic hedonism.
Do you consider reading literature and listening to music pathetic hedonism completely? I find it hard accepting that.

I agree that my original post was a tad empty and I should have included more things, but ultimately, I find that appreciating Art makes my life worth living, maybe I'm a dumb slave who has been gripped by Capitalism or maybe I'm not.

>I just prefer knowing the world I live in.
Do you mean the world as in your immediate surroundings, the world now, or the world historically?

[Anonymous No.5656893]

>>5656870
>are not tied to the system, they would not dissapear outside of capitalism.
Lol, yes they would. Before modern aristocracy they weren't even a concept.

>Do you consider reading literature and listening to music pathetic hedonism completely
Not by themselves, I've been implying along the way that just swallowing artistic production is the problem.

>the world now, or the world historically
both, and the things in it and how they work, even try my hand at making my own stuff. Living just to sit and receive works is pretty empty, you have to process them and try to make your own through your interpretation and experience.
At least that's what I think, I was just being a bit assholish but you made me feel bad about it.
Good luck with your shit, qt.

[Anonymous No.5656903]

>>5656893
>Lol, yes they would.
Do you mind explaining? I'm genuinly curious.

>I've been implying along the way that just swallowing artistic production is the problem.
I suppose, but it is important not to forget that we learn from the works of others, even if many think that it goes without saying.

>Living just to sit and receive works is pretty empty, you have to process them and try to make your own through your interpretation and experience.
I agree.

>I was just being a bit assholish but you made me feel bad about it.
Not at all, I wanted someone to challenge me.

[Anonymous No.5656906]

>>5656429
Its highly subjective. Just generally do things you enjoy and avoid things you don't

[Anonymous No.5656910]

>>5656893
>even try my hand at making my own stuff
What kind of stuff? Is your stuff any good?

[Anonymous No.5656940]

>>5656903
>books
What do you think would happen with literature without a publishing industry?
At the very least, in a more restricted type of economy, the concept of constant printing and availability wouldn't exist. There would barely be a literature canon because accessing to those books would mean an extra effort and if they weren't selected while in printing it would be a very complex work just getting them back, which doesn't include making available to everyone.
Our relationship with the idea of literature would be completely different, more access based (you read what you can when you can) than merit based (you hear multiple opinions and chose the thing you prefer).
Digital only would present the opposite problem, it would require pretty complex editing and selecting to discern the real quality from the fanfic tier selfpublish. It could work, but many new works would get drowned in a sea of shit and the classic ones would remain (which is what tends to happen now anyway)

>music
This one is pretty obvious. Previous to recordings music was something you ahd to go and find and you could get once in a while. Even if you settled for the local bard, it was still a weekly thing at best most of the cases.
If we're imagining some postcapitalist society that retains what we have now, which is a pretty absurd quest because we aren't presenting how it would come to be and that' a huge factor, it would be back to a local or circuit based access to the material. The only reason we have everything in youtube is because a company wants to promote their material through that medium, without corporations it would be much harder to distribute at a world scale (and less people would care)

Still, imagining post-something without settling how it's reached it's pointless. I was just saying that our present mechanic is one of consumption over appreciation, and we shouldn't fool ourselves thinking that consuming something better is the same as better consumption.

>>5656910
It's obviously shit or I wouldn't be here ;^)

[Anonymous No.5656958]

>>5656940
So, your issue is not with capitalism, but certain attitudes it fosters, or do I still misunderstand?

[Anonymous No.5656986]

>>5656958
In this case, yeah. Culture and art can't be a market item, but they tend to be tied to those to make them look like a relevant part of human life. It's better to just read one good book with critical thinking and analysis than having a library full of shit you just powered through.
There are other bad things inherent to the system, but no system is perfect anyway.

Sorry for so much rambling.

[Anonymous No.5656993]

>>5656986
I like to feel I am not a poser, but what you have said is something I will indeed contemplate.

[Anonymous No.5657008]

>>5656993
Just read The Work of Art in the Age of Its Technological Reproducibility and Other Writings on Media and work your waythrough Frankfurt just to drop it for structuralism.

[Anonymous No.5657016]

>>5657008
(like any decent person should do)

[Anonymous No.5657023]

>>5656477
>>5656529
These.

[Anonymous No.5657074]

>>5656529
Really, though.

[Anonymous No.5657119]

>>5656758

That's if you don't believe in anything.

If your life is in the ethical stage, or the religious one, you don't always seek pure happiness.

[Anonymous No.5657155]

>>5656429

Christian Asceticism and it's not even really close.

[Anonymous No.5657299]

>>5656429
I haven't found any better way of living than Jesuism. I don't say Christianity because Paul fucked it up. Wittgenstein agrees with this:

"The spring which flows quietly and transparently through the Gospels seems to have foam on it in Paul’s Epistles. Or, that is how it seems to me. Perhaps it is just my own impurity which sees cloudiness in it; for why shouldn’t this impurity be able to pollute what is clear? But to me it’s as if I saw human passion here, something like pride or anger, which does not agree with the humility of the Gospels. As if there were here an emphasis on his own person, and even as a religious act, which is foreign to the Gospel.
In the Gospels – so it seems to me – everything is less pretentious, humbler, simpler. There are huts; with Paul a church. There all men are equal and God himself is a man; with Paul there is already something like a hierarchy; honours and offices."

Also probably Kierkegaard, but I can't live as a knight of faith before I've read and understood F&T (which I haven't been able to, yet).

[Anonymous No.5657316]

Costco
Bumper to bumper traffic on a 4 lane highway
Drinking Double Gulps and Eating Artificially Flavored Cheese Corn Puffs
Having the freedom to watch commercials interspersed with segments from a rehash of Chekov, Miller, and Dostoev
Having the freedom to buy a 10 foot tall Teddy Bear at said warehouse of liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Never failing to have beer spilled on you by drunk baseball fans that sit directly behind of you.
The ability to watch porn on the smartphone of a guy sitting in his car every 2-3 blocks on a busy street.
Suits master-race.
I love my freedom and I bleed from every orifice red,white,and blue.

[Anonymous No.5657837]

Live for the species.

[Anonymous No.5658456]

>>5656429
The human mind is centered around recognizing patterns from information fed to them through their senses, and then taking action centered around maintaining one of these patterns which is seen as optimal. The one that we see as optimal is arbitrary and based on the information that we have collected.

In other words, IDEALS ARE ARBITRARY AND THEY HAVE NO VALUE BEYOND WHAT YOU SUPPLY THEM. THIS COULD BE SAID OF ANY CONCEPT REALLY BECAUSE IDEAL IS JUST ANOTHER WORD FOR THE OPTIMAL VERSION OF AN IDEA OR CONCEPT. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THE IDEAL WAY OF LIVING JUST CLOSE YOUR EYES COUNT TO THREE AND MAKE SOMETHING UP. IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR WAY OF LIVING REMIND THEM THAT THE ONLY STANDARD BY WHICH YOU CAN BE MEASURED IS OF YOUR OWN MAKING NOT THEIRS

>>5657299
The Knight of Faith exists in isolation therefore anybody/nobody could be a Knight of Faith as you don't have insight into their mind. Some would say that only you could know if you were a Knight of Faith, or the Ubermensch, or the messiah, or whatever you consider to be the ideal person. Others say that Nietzsche/Kierkegaard/The Bible/(pretty much any philosophy that espouses some kind of ideal to be lived up to) is full of shit

[Anonymous No.5658475]

>>5656429
Idunno budy. Ideal is a relative word. :/ 'What I Believe' a pretty good essay about the good life and other stuff. The good life is my favorite part though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge1hwSZrNwM

[Anonymous No.5658521]

>>5657316
Your forgot listening to Talking Heads.

[Anonymous No.5658592]

>>5656986
>>5656993
>>5657008
Really enjoyed that discussion. Just wanted to point that out.

[Anonymous No.5658726]

>>5656429
just mostly chilling and having a great time and letting the good vibes wash over you

[Anonymous No.5658824]

>>5658456

> IDEALS ARE ARBITRARY AND THEY HAVE NO VALUE BEYOND WHAT YOU SUPPLY THEM

Then why you get indoctrinated by culture so you don't go and make a fuckup of everything?

There is a lot of Authencity on our mouths today, but sometimes we see authencity in that drunkard low willing egotistical guy and we clearly see that that is wrong for him and for his responsabilitations.

In the other side we see the vagabund in the Diogenes sense, that he is clearly correct somehow compared with the example.

So, what separates both, his willing to live like that?

[Anonymous No.5658972]

>>5658824
It is possible that nothing separates them. We don't have insight into either of their mindsets so it's impossible to say that one is authentic and the other is inauthentic.

Personally I think that people are always completely authentic. That everyone's actions are completely in accord with their philosophies. You could make the case that no one is authentic and that everyone is mind trapped in a completely uncooperative body. Both claims are just conjecture though, because no one has insight into the mind of others

[Anonymous No.5659019]

>>5658824
We get indoctrinated BECAUSE ideals are arbitrary. That why we grow up feeling wrong when we don't do things no one told us to do, or appreciate righteousness over living standards in Dioegenes case. The thing is that indoctrination is way harder to direct than people would like.

[Anonymous No.5659075]

>>5656429
Fuck bitches, get money.

[Anonymous No.5659121]

>>5659019

But in this case we see Righteusness as an ideal. And we arbitrary put other ideals along the light of righteusness.

The key is finding what is righteuous, so you can't actually go and say "everything is acceptable as a way of living" without putting after "if it's righteous and dignus".

I know that this is everything socially constructed, i'm just taking a foot-in and finding through it what is to be dignus for the self.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.5660404]

>>5657119
>the ethical stage
Negative hedonism is plenty ethical
>or the religious one
The slave stage? The spook stage? Why would one revert to that?