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Anonymous Wed Oct 22 21:48:57 2014 No.5621708 [Reply] [Original]

What is the best philosophical argument for the existence of the Christian God?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 21:57:26 2014 No.5621750 "You can't know nuffin, so you can't know that God doesn't exist." -- St Thomas Aquinas.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:14:02 2014 No.5621825 This is what you're looking for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:19:43 2014 No.5621844 None of them really work but ontological is the coolest

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:21:00 2014 No.5621846 Everything comes from somewhere/something. It follows that one such thing is the exception and the progenitor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:23:29 2014 No.5621852 God exists in my mind, therefore God exists.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:27:07 2014 No.5621866 >>5621708 Book 1 of Summa contra Gentiles.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:30:43 2014 No.5621877 these are all arguments for god, but none specifically for the christian god

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:33:09 2014 No.5621884 Faith

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:34:54 2014 No.5621889

I sometimes find myself agree that there is a source for all things / the highest good / etc. and that is God but struggle to answer that why should God be personal? In short, I can accept that God exists but can someone answer why should that God be like the Christian God (that he came in Jesus Christ and died for our sins)? Is there other basis other from "the Bible says so?"

CAPTCHA: Lord riebir

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:35:15 2014 No.5621891

>>5621708
Religion is philosophy.
Granted, it's hard to believe that philosophy could get even more retarded than Aristotle...but it does. It's called the Abrahamic Religions. Very difficult to believe that over the lifespan of the human race that the only thing that has continued to decrease in quality is religion...just gets more and more ridiculous each time it evolves.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:42:51 2014 No.5621914 >>5621877 Well shit, that's an awfully specific brand of delusion...

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 22:56:37 2014 No.5621963
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My favorite, but il probably butcher it, I cant quite remember.

>Imagine your perfect Ice Cream
>A perfect Icecream has all the positive attributes of Icecream
>Actually existing is a positive attribute
Therefore the perfect Icecream actually exists

>Christian God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenelovelnt
>Christian God is perfect, he has all the positive attributes of everything
>Existince is a positive attribute
Therefore God Exists

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:00:14 2014 No.5621972 >>5621825 I can't tell if that's serious or not. I know Cameron is a serious pop-apologist, but holy shit, what retard would think that's a good argument?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:06:37 2014 No.5621992 >>5621963 How do you know existence is a positive attribute? Also this argument seems tautological to me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:06:43 2014 No.5621993 lunatic, liar, lord is the classic one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:08:07 2014 No.5621996 File: 81 KB, 640x480, immanuel-kant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5621963 >calling existence a predicate

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:09:48 2014 No.5622001 >>5621750 None. Since Kant we have moved on from such foolish arguments

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:10:41 2014 No.5622004 [DELETED]

>>5621963
but it breaks down when you acknowledge the fact that a "perfect ice cream" doesn't actually exist, following your thought experiment.

>imagine a perfect light bulb
>a perfect island has all the positive attributes of a perfect light bulb
>never breaking is a positive attribute of a perfect light bulb
>actually existing is a positive attribute of a perfect light bulb
but a perfect light bulb that never burns out doesnt actally exist,
you were just being a fucking child playing with words

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:12:09 2014 No.5622009

>>5621963
but it breaks down when you acknowledge the fact that a "perfect ice cream" doesn't actually exist, following your thought experiment.

>imagine a perfect light bulb
>a perfect light bulb has all the positive attributes of a perfect light bulb
>never breaking is a positive attribute of a perfect light bulb
>actually existing is a positive attribute of a perfect light bulb
but a perfect light bulb that never burns out doesnt actally exist,
you were just being a fucking child playing with words

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:12:50 2014 No.5622012

>>5621992
Think about "Your" perfect ice cream, i mean actually think about what would make up an ice cream that would be perfect just for you. Obviously for that ice cream to be perfect, it needs to exist. Because what is better; an ice cream in your imagination or an ice cream that actually exists. Its the one that exists therefore existing is a positive aspect of the perfect ice cream

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:14:01 2014 No.5622018 >>5622009 This can be an argument for the existence of the Idea or Form of lightbulb, just saying.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:14:28 2014 No.5622022 >>5622012 BUT THAT ICE CREAM DOESNT FUCKING EXIST anon, I don't think you understand how words work. this isn't fucking hogwarts, you can't just magic shit into existence with a spell

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:15:37 2014 No.5622025 >>5622012 What wouldn't the ice cream in my mind be more perfect? It is immune to destruction, will never be eaten, etc Also my perfect ice cream may not be another's perfect ice cream, and yet the Christian God is the same for everyone...

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:15:39 2014 No.5622026 >>5622018 of course the idea exists, I just fucking thought it. but thinking it didn't poof it into existence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:16:49 2014 No.5622028 I just imagined my perfect ice cream and since both "existing" and "being in my hand" are positive attributes I am chowing down on some red velvet 'cream in a waffle cone right now and you dumbass atheists are missing out.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:17:33 2014 No.5622033 >>5622028 Send some my way breh. If it's so perfect you shouldn't run out of it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:17:55 2014 No.5622035

>>5622022
Man you didn't get the idea of the argument. If it is perfect and didn't exist it would be worse than one that existed. If there could be a better one, it is not perfect. This is a contradiction. Therefore it exists.
The perfect ice cream exists too, in the Platonic realm of Ideas

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:18:10 2014 No.5622036

>>5621877
Aquinas is arguing for the Christian god, although he thinks the best we can do with the Trinity is demonstrate that it doesn't contradict reason.

It is impossible to attain to the knowledge of the Trinity by natural reason. For, as above explained (Question [12], Articles [4],12), man cannot obtain the knowledge of God by natural reason except from creatures. Now creatures lead us to the knowledge of God, as effects do to their cause. Accordingly, by natural reason we can know of God that only which of necessity belongs to Him as the principle of things, and we have cited this fundamental principle in treating of God as above (Question [12], Article [12]). Now, the creative power of God is common to the whole Trinity; and hence it belongs to the unity of the essence, and not to the distinction of the persons. Therefore, by natural reason we can know what belongs to the unity of the essence, but not what belongs to the distinction of the persons. Whoever, then, tries to prove the trinity of persons by natural reason, derogates from faith in two ways. Firstly, as regards the dignity of faith itself, which consists in its being concerned with invisible things, that exceed human reason; wherefore the Apostle says that "faith is of things that appear not" (Heb. 11:1), and the same Apostle says also, "We speak wisdom among the perfect, but not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world; but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery which is hidden" (1 Cor. 2:6,7). Secondly, as regards the utility of drawing others to the faith. For when anyone in the endeavor to prove the faith brings forward reasons which are not cogent, he falls under the ridicule of the unbelievers: since they suppose that we stand upon such reasons, and that we believe on such grounds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:21:50 2014 No.5622042 >>5622035 but the argument doesn't actually work. it doesn't arrive at the truth. show me your perfect ice cream and I will admit that you're right until then, just keep jerkin your dick you words

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:23:02 2014 No.5622044 >>5621972 You are so stupid it hurts to watch

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:23:40 2014 No.5622047 >>5622033 it's literally already in your mouth because if it wasn't it wouldn't be perfect

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:26:38 2014 No.5622058 >>5621708 1. "God exists" -- Every pope ever. 2. The pope has 'papal infallibility', so is objectively correct and immune to error. 2 confirms 1 and proves that the Christian God exists.

Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:29:18 2014 No.5622066

>>5622042
We are debating whether we can or not get to the truth without aid of empiric evidence (I.e through a logical argument)
By claiming I should provide evidence for a perfect ice cream you are already assuming that it's impossible. You are begging the question, assuming beforehand you are right and using it to prove you are right

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:31:13 2014 No.5622077 >>5622035 It would be more perfect if I could actually eat it. Therefore the perfect ice cream does not exist only as a Platonic form.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:34:22 2014 No.5622092 >>5622066 All you are saying here is that "just because I can't prove it, that isn't evidence that it isn't true". However, the OP is asking for an argument supporting the existence of a Christian God.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:35:29 2014 No.5622099 >>5622077 This is a good counter BRB

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:38:15 2014 No.5622113 >>5621891 Yes, because a bunch of people living on a mountain and affecting the weather is so much better than monotheism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:41:47 2014 No.5622134 >>5621993 That's a pretty stupid argument, but setting that aside, it seems to be claiming that Jesus is God after having already assumed that God exists, not arguing for the existence of God in general.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 22 23:49:34 2014 No.5622167 >>5622058 But does the pope exist?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 00:03:13 2014 No.5622223 >>5622058 >papal infallibility You should study canon law. You're using that term incorrectly. It is likely that at least one of the popes didn't believe in God. There have been so many and many corrupt ones.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 01:10:14 2014 No.5622438 >>5621914 explain

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 01:30:16 2014 No.5622493 That Thomas Aquinas argument from infinite causality. Ontological argument. Argument from Logic. Then that Existentialist dude Maritain had some pretty chill arguments. Can't remember what they are though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:02:40 2014 No.5622600 File: 362 KB, 1280x1024, epicurus___why_call_him_god__by_tnactim.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5621708

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:04:20 2014 No.5622604 They're all equally shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:04:50 2014 No.5622607 the fear of hell. The existential pain of life. nothing else.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:05:24 2014 No.5622610 >>5622600 God I hate that image

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:06:38 2014 No.5622617 >>5622223 checked

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:17:50 2014 No.5622668 >>5622610 just for you bb

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:26:21 2014 No.5622700 >>5621708 ''Every single fucking human being since the beginning of time has believed in something. It's hardwired into our brain. May not be philosophical, but it's true.'' -Anon, right now

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 02:30:00 2014 No.5622714 >>5621963 That shit is circular son, how stupid can you be?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 23 05:32:42 2014 No.5623108 >>5622714 He was clearly being critical of the argument while posting it. How stupid can you be?

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