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/lit/ - Literature

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5560602 No.5560602 [Reply] [Original]

https://medium.com/the-archipelago/why-criticizing-ya-is-sexist-e8076015000a
Thoughts?

>> No.5560622

the internet lets me tell you why you do what you do and who you are as a person because of it.

>> No.5560630

I like how the article proceeds from the assumption that women are mentally children.

>> No.5560644

"Like Graham, my younger self longed for the stacks beyond the young adult section. Eighth grade found me devouring Jack London, Stephen King, and John Steinbeck. I read through all of Lord of the Rings in a two-week period during my sophomore year of high school, and was happily delving into George Orwell, Dostoyevsky, and Tim O’Brien by senior year. I thought I was beyond YA concerns"

i always lol at the kind of lists these people come up with to justify that they are familiar with "'real'" literature not just ya

>> No.5560648

>>5560644
Wow Orwell and Dusty so adult

>> No.5560650
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5560650

>where, yes, she did write her master’s thesis on Harry Potter.

>> No.5560657

>>5560602
"The point of literature is not that everyone must have the same experience when they read a book. It is...empathetically recognizing that we are part of a larger humanity."

Is there nothing that people like that they are not going to try to tie it to their egalitarian, giant blob of humanity perspective. I want the moralists to go away.

>> No.5560662

>>5560657
cont.
What the fuck? She just pulls the sexism card and then it just ends.

>> No.5560664

>>5560648
But Orwell fucks the system and Dusty is from olden tymes.

am i literature yet

>> No.5560675

From the acclaimed author that brought you "Men, get on board with misandry"

https://medium.com/the-archipelago/men-get-on-board-with-misandry-4a3bc6c08e16

>I drink from a coffee mug that says “Male Tears.”

>> No.5560682
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5560682

>>5560675
>this person is paid legal tender to write articles like that for The Guardian

>> No.5560693

>>5560675
I imagine this guy as the same one who did the cookies and milk thing that pisses /b/ off so much.

>> No.5560694

Because women are children?

>> No.5560696

>>5560682
Gross. Why can't women be cute like Tsuruya?

>> No.5560697

>>5560630
Oh nevermind I should have read the thread

>> No.5560699

>>5560696
yOu mean the green-haired fang girl from Haruhi? Who said "nyoron" exactly one time and then it became a catchphrase

>> No.5560702

>criticizing YA lit is sexist
>because women like YA lit
>and you should never criticize women

So much for equality.

>> No.5560703

>>5560699
Yes. She's megas cute.

>> No.5560705

>She lives in Sioux Falls with her cat

>> No.5560716

>>5560703
get out /jp/

>> No.5560721
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5560721

>>5560716
You cannot sit there and tell me she isn't megas cute.

>> No.5560726

>>5560721
I prefer Yuki Nagato.

>> No.5560731

This is the problem with the tendency of feminism whose roots lie in literary criticism. They all cut their teeth in academic circles, where, to a far greater extent than almost any other branch of academia, never mind the world at large, opinion is fact and perception is reality. Your reading of a text is your reading - if this or that turn of phrase 'suggests' something, then it suggests it *to you*.

Hence it may very well never have occurred to the author to offer any evidence for the sexism attributed to the critics of YA.

>> No.5560734

>>5560703
Strong words for worst girl.

>> No.5560744

>>5560726
I don't like her that much. She's not even in my top 5 characters (including manga). Is the new adaption about her coming out as a movie or series?

>> No.5560746

>>5560744
I don't know and I don't care b/c it looks dumb, we need more actual Haruhi.

>> No.5560751

>>5560734
She's so much better than every other character, especially Mikuru. What makes you call her the worst girl?

>> No.5560752

Let's spend the rest of this thread talking about Japanese YA, which is categorically superior to anglophone/Western YA (which explains why GIRLS don't like it as much).

>> No.5560754

>>5560751
Actually Haruhi is probablyt he best in that she's the most interesting and developed character-wise. All of the others are just there for fun.

>> No.5560756

>>5560751
Her gimmick is really annoying. Mikuru is cliche as fuck but at least that's for the sake of irony. Plus, she can't possibly be best girl because she's not Yuki Nagato.

>> No.5560758
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5560758

>>5560746
Yeah, alternate world Nagato is shit tier. I miss Haruhi.

>> No.5560762

>>5560754

everything in the Haruhi books is "just there for fun", it's easily the most pointless and gratuitous sack of shit I have ever had the displeasure of encountering, and it knows that that is what it is and revels in it.

>> No.5560767

>>5560762
I agree, I'm just saying, if you had to chooseo ne, it's her, the title character.

>> No.5560772

>>5560754
Haruhi is alright, she's very cute, but Tsuruya is rich and has a pointy tooth. Haruhi is too selfish, though.
>>5560756
How is she annoying? You have weird taste.

>> No.5560774

>>5560762
What's wrong with fun?

>> No.5560775

>>5560767

Kyon is sexier.

>> No.5560776

GTFO of my 4chan with your animè bullshit.

>> No.5560777

>>5560772
I do have weird taste. .

>> No.5560779

>>5560775
That's beside the point, since he's not (supposed to be) a girl.

>> No.5560781 [DELETED] 

>>5560682
At long last, I have discovered a British author I want to have sex with even less than Laurie Penny

>> No.5560784

>>5560781
Who's the British authro you most want to have sex with? Will Self?

>> No.5560786
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5560786

>>5560682
At long last, I have discovered a feminist I want to have sex with even less than Laurie Penny

>> No.5560788
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5560788

>>5560776
Bite me
>>5560775
What do you think of Koizumi?

>> No.5560789

>>5560784
Not him but I'd do J.K. Rowling.

>> No.5560791
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5560791

>>5560779

Best girl doesn't need to be a girl, you know. I bet Kyon has an extremely feminine dick.

>>5560788

gay

>> No.5560795

>>5560791
>gay
But he loves Haruhi

>> No.5560799

>>5560795
He's just using Haruhi to get to Kyon.

>> No.5560805

>>5560799
In Disappearance he didn't know who Kyon was, presumably, but it doesn't matter, and still followed Haruhi around like a dog.

>> No.5560819

>>5560805
He doesn't love her, he's just concerned about the fate of the world, and keeps an eye on her.

>> No.5560827
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5560827

>>5560819
Did he know about Haruhi's power in Disappearance and only played dumb around Kyon?

>> No.5560832

>>5560827
I would assume as much.

>> No.5560833

get your disgusting, lewd, impure cartoons off my book discussion forum

>> No.5560843
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5560843

>>5560832
Did he know what was going on? Was he punished for that, too?
>>5560833
No.

>> No.5560846

>>5560843
I doubt he had any idea what was going on.

>> No.5560849 [DELETED] 

>>5560843
>>5560827
>>5560788
>>5560758
>>5560721
>>>/a/utism

fuck off

>> No.5560851

>>5560846
Was he even an ESPer in that world? He only transferred because to North High and became an ESPer because Haruhi willed it.

>> No.5560854

>>5560851
I assume so, and that Haruhi still had her powers in that universe. This isn't that difficult.

>> No.5560856

Funny how adult YA are always so hair-trigger defensive about it.

>> No.5560857

>>5560856
* adult YA fans

>> No.5560859

>>5560854
So Koizumi was the only person monitoring her? Can Koizumi even communicate with the data overmind?

>> No.5560866

>>5560859
No, that's Nagato's thing.

>> No.5560872

>>5560866
Then there had to have been a TFEI or TFEIs at Kouyouen Academy.

>> No.5560873
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5560873

>>5560602

So boys aren't allowed to read YA now? Isn't that a bit sexist? Jesus. Maybe adults look down on YA because it's written for teenagers, not because of some sort of "muh soginy" I mean I'm sure there are some good YA novels but you wont catch me browsing the kids section at chapters. Plus I have a huge backlog as it is so get in line YA bitties.

Thanks internet for bringing me so many idiotic opinions.

>> No.5560886

>>5560872
May be.

>> No.5560887
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5560887

>where, yes, she did write her master’s thesis on Harry Potter. She lives in Sioux Falls with her cat and has a whole bookshelf dedicated to her YA Lit collection.

Mother of god

>> No.5560895

>>5560849
/a/ doesn't care about Haruhi any more, now they're all about Amagi Brilliant Park

>> No.5560920

>>5560602
weirdly the piece is barely about sexism at all, just more generally about YA, and not very coherently so either.

there are YA series deserving of a masters' thesis but Harry Potter isn't one of them (unless it's on the social phenomenon or something).

>> No.5560927

>>5560920
Which ones are worthy of a master's thesis, Anonymous?

>> No.5560948

>>5560927
Le Guin's Earthsea
Pullman's His Dark Materials
L'Engle's Time Quintet
Twain's Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn (duh)
Lewis's Narnia
Lowry's Giver books

probably plenty more I can't think of now

>> No.5560956

>>5560948
Those are books that can be enjoyed by all audiences, but I'm not sure that they qualify as YA.

>> No.5560964

>>5560675

the fact her premise rests on killing concepts means some1 needs 2 grab a shotgun n put it in their mouth

the fact she doesn't propose actually fucking killing men as a solution is damn stupid 2

obsequious obstinate oblong headed oedipus-ameoba'd proto-oligarches deserve real and true fucking death

>> No.5560965

>>5560956
ok well I think they do

>> No.5560968

>>5560956
>Those are books that can be enjoyed by all audiences, but I'm not sure that they qualify as YA.

The Twain and Lewis do. I only read the first L'Engle, but I would say it's definitely YA, just sophisticated for the genre.

Earthsea is a weird one. It starts out more or less straightforward YA, but the time Tehranu (or whatever the 4th one was called) comes around, it's pretty tough to say it's still in that genre. Might be a more pronounced version of the Potter 'growing up with the readership' deal.

Not the guy you quoted, I should mention.

These fucking captchas, we had nothing but numbers for so long and it was great, what the fuck.

>> No.5560970

I've seen most of those series identified as YA pretty consistently. I think the problem now is that because YA currently has some very well-known but embarrassing stuff like Twilight defining how the genre is regarded, any YA like >>5560948
that's actually good is now being co-opted into other genres to try and rescue it.

>> No.5560972

>>5560964

pro tip 2 ppl who want 2 actually further womens rights n not mollycoddle the idea that ur supposed "system of equality" is ethical or rly leveling in any way: solely parasitically leeching off of the power structure u r inherently attempting to undermine has never ended well for any society/movement/culture ever

so if u want 2 "kill the patriarchy" ur gonna need 2 do the efficacy-inducing equivalent of putting a gun in my n err other white male's melanin-deprived dame-macerating mouths

>> No.5560975

>>5560682
Now this is a heterosexual female if ever I saw one.

>> No.5560978

>>5560964
>>5560972
it is really work reading your posts

>> No.5560981

Moving beyond the poor quality of the piece itself, I believe there is something to what she's talking about, but she's got it backwards, imo. The problem isn't that reviewers etc deride YA (for whatever reason). The problem is with the attitudes towards masculinity. A 14-yo boy may very well read Harry Potter, but he's not going to talk to his mates about it. A 14-yo girl will have no problem, or much less of a problem, anyway.

If it was closer to equally acceptable for boys and girls to read books of that sort, the issue would resolve itself. Not that I see any actual way to tackle the problem, of course. I'm just a critic.

>> No.5560983

>>5560972

but YA is p. bad b/c its just rly not fun writing most of the time

no1 writes in rlly "new" ways or varies word choice/sentence structure/syntax

its just dumb n gay imo n y ne1 wud venerate thats byond mii

>> No.5560984

>>5560978

Might I suggest a holiday? Semi-literate weirdo with fixation on putting guns in mouths - worth your time, Y/N? I'm leaning towards N.

>> No.5560986

>>5560978

words n diff ways 2 shorten/spel wurds r fuhn %^D

>> No.5561001

>>5560968
>>5560965
Some of them are explicitly children's literature, and others were written well before the YA genre was invented in the '80s or so.

>> No.5561007

I thougth this thread was a bout Haruhi

>> No.5561009

>>5561001
>the YA genre

I suppose I wasn't thinking about it in those terms - I tend to just lump YA in as "For kids, but older kids."

>> No.5561012

>>5561009
I think The Giver is the only one on that list that qualifies as falling under the YA genre.

>> No.5561016

>>5561012
Actually, no, now that I think about it, it's still written for the same kind of audience as Harry Potter, making it a children's book.

>> No.5561735
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5561735

>>5560849
This is a far better topic to discuss than /lit/ shitting on about some retarded feminist and her stupid opinions on shitty YA fiction.

>> No.5561743

>>5560786

Why are they always Jewish? Was /pol/ right all along?

>> No.5561750

>I am thankful for the taxes I pay because it means that I am employed
Ideology at its maximum.

>> No.5562212

I don't read YA myself, but I like LNs.

People usually say LNs are the YA of Japan, but that's based on shallow understanding. Both are different, their intended audiences are just the same age. And even that can be argued with YA books aiming mainly at people at the lower end of the bracket and LNs at the top end.

>> No.5562226

>>5560602
Keep this nonsense out of /lit/.

>> No.5562256
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5562256

>Young adult literature has long been the refuge of those on the outer edges of the societal zeitgeist. Women have legitimacy within its realm, seeing successes not often available to them on the mainstream market.

Wow

>> No.5562270

>>5560602
I haven't even read it and am already laughing

>> No.5562271

>>5561743
Yes. That meme specifically refers to how "it" is usually "the jews". It has nothing to do with schizophrenic happening nonsense. It's just a continuation of Henry Ford's observation of reality.

>> No.5562273

>>5560602
>https://medium.com/the-archipelago/why-criticizing-ya-is-sexist-e8076015000a

Dianna Anderson is the author of the forthcoming nonfiction book, Damaged Goods: New Perspectives on Christian Purity. She has a Master of the Arts in English from Baylor University, where, yes, she did write her master’s thesis on Harry Potter. She lives in Sioux Falls with her cat and has a whole bookshelf dedicated to her YA Lit collection.


Nope.

>> No.5562274

i didn't realise that YA was a female thing
i always assumed it was for young adults of both sexes and i was scoffing at children in general

>> No.5562285

>>5562274

Young Adult literature is exploitative of young girls more than anyone else.

The author, out of sheer contrarianism, it appears; takes it upon herself to defend the genre, so the logical next step is to defend it via the very demographic it exploits.

Which is the kind of circular reasoning that delegitimizes multiculturalism.

>> No.5562294

>>5560602
>The arguments against adults reading young adult literature tend to be a unique combination of condescension toward teenagers and unexamined sexism toward female-oriented books.


Why must everything be defended?

Haven't people ever thought that maybe, just maybe, women can't write adult literature, and that teenagers have shit taste?

>> No.5562304

>>5560602

AHA!

They laughed at me when I told them YA was nothing but shitty feminist trash, now who's laughing!

>> No.5562317

>>5562256
>Historically, women have populated the genres aimed at teenagers and children precisely because of a sexist publishing industry that deemed women unable to write adult literary fiction (see the continued disparagement of Jane Austen’s books as “fluffy”).

that evidence lel

>> No.5562332

>A lot of young adult novels are written by women so if you have a problem with a lot of the tired overused plots and characters that infest young adult literature then really you must just hate women.

What an argument

>> No.5562340

>>5562332
She's a woman

>> No.5562361

OP's image reminds me of soviet nursery rhymes, the ones thanking our worker's chimney for blocking out the sun with plumes of industrious smog.

>> No.5562381
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5562381

if you are a woman your critics (all the critics are likely to be men) are sexist

if you are black or some other racial minority they are racist

if you are gay/bi or any other queer of some sort they are intolerant

if you are a white heterosexual male, well, no ease of critics for you, you should take the white man burden and be the the backbone of the world which you made :p oh, and it's possibly you shouldn't write at all since you are likely a son of martha and should dig mountains or something (see kipling on both accounts)

>> No.5562397

>>5562361
what do you mean btw? soviet poetry for children is very pretty

>> No.5562560

>>5562212
They are literally the same shit. One has cardboard cutout teenagers in them and the other has cardboard cutout animu waifus in them. Both are trash lit for children.

>> No.5562717

What about all the female writers who write adult fiction? She completely ignores them and makes the generalization that women only write YA trash.

>> No.5563434

So, uh, does anyone else hear YA and think of the male dominated high fantasy genre rather than Suzanne Collins and Madeleine L'Engle?

>> No.5563581

>>5562294
that was generally the held opinion since the sexual revolution mate.

>> No.5563767 [DELETED] 
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5563767

>>5560786

>Zimmerman