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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 47 KB, 506x267, trolley.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449818 No.5449818 [Reply] [Original]

Well, /lit/?

>> No.5449822

Is the one on the upper track a very attractive girl?

>> No.5449826

anyone not pulling it is a retard

not much else to say

>> No.5449831
File: 84 KB, 667x582, the true trolley problem.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449831

>> No.5449835

>>5449826
So if you were a doctor and you could save 5 dying people by harvesting the organs of 1 healthy person you would? You sick fuck.

>> No.5449840

>>5449835
false analogy

>> No.5449841

It looks like the trolley isn't moving. I'll just leisurely untie them all.

If it is moving, I probably can't pull the switch fast enough.

>> No.5449842

>>5449835
You would let the five people die? You sick fuck

>> No.5449845

Depends on the race, gender, profession and age of all the individuals involved.

>> No.5449846

>>5449818

Never understand why that choice is supposed to be a hard one. One person is always going to die. By acting you can save four lives. That the end of it.

>> No.5449848

>>5449826
pulling the lever automatically makes you guilty of killing the one person, while just observing the train running over the 5 ppl leaves you separate from the incident. cmon anon we've been over this.

>> No.5449849
File: 92 KB, 814x864, the ultimate trolley problem.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449849

>> No.5449852

>>5449848
>leaves you separate from the incident
No it doesn't, since you're witnessing the whole thing and have the opportunity to reduce the harm.

>> No.5449853

>>5449818
the only correct answer is to not be in the position to pull the lever at all

>> No.5449859

>>5449852
how does the hypothetical "opportunity to reduce harm" make you guilty, when in reality you did nothing but watch?

>> No.5449861

>>5449859
Precisely because you did nothing but watch, having the opportunity to save 4 lifes.

>> No.5449862

>>5449840
It's not a false analogy. Either you do nothing and 5 people die or you murder one person and save the 5.

>> No.5449863

failure to stop and render aid is a felony by itself

>> No.5449868

Does it really matter when the destination is the same for everyone?

>> No.5449873
File: 126 KB, 959x573, 1402144791861.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449873

>>5449818

>> No.5449881
File: 320 KB, 355x437, 1401093867541.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449881

>>5449873

>> No.5449882

>>5449873
running over 5 dudes would slow down the trolley too much and wouldn't retain enough forward momentum to complete the loop. pulling the lever is the only correct choice here, even if the person tied up is your mom/rabbi/principal/jesus/thomas ruggles pynchon/hitler, an incompetent loopdeeloop is an ethical crime within itself

>> No.5449888
File: 69 KB, 624x329, bttf-624x329.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449888

>>5449882
Only if you don't have POWER!

>> No.5449892

>>5449882
It could be a high power trolley. Maybe even with a thrust-to-weight ratio above 1.

>> No.5449894
File: 65 KB, 521x561, wait till you see my resolve.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449894

>>5449873
>>totally sick loop da loop

>> No.5449945

>>5449835
Depends who is most likely to sue. If the one guy is very very rich and has a powerful corporation and family to back him up with teams of lawyers, then you'd better try to save him while the 5 nobodies die.

>> No.5449947

>>5449873
tenattaten

>> No.5449957

I'd sacrifice my own life.
At least I'll dying thinking I'll be remembered as a hero.

>> No.5449966
File: 317 KB, 450x250, 9fe7VQd.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449966

>>5449957
>Jump in front of the trolley
>It plows through you, the 5 people, AND does the totally sick loop-da-loop

>> No.5449984
File: 55 KB, 535x798, 1408054834861.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449984

>>5449966
Perfect.

>> No.5450005

>>5449818
It dooesn't matter what you do. Your brain is already hardwired to make a certain decision. There is no agent with control over that programming, so basically whatever happens is morally neutral, because you had no control over your actions.

>> No.5450014
File: 44 KB, 250x250, 1387743875219.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5450014

Switching the track to the one man is okay, because you're not using them as a means to an end, their death is just an unintended side effect.

It'd be different if you were to just throw someone off a bridge to stop it, who happened to be just near the track.

>> No.5450022

I'd smile more if I had my own train set.

>> No.5450058

>>5450022
In the front?

>> No.5450553

To leave it alone would be one a God.

To pull it would make you Satan himself.

>> No.5450560

>>5449873
if you look closely you can see the loop is shopped

>> No.5450564

>>5449818

Let the five die because I'm an antinatalist.

>> No.5450607

>>5450553
holy shit, i never saw it like that

>> No.5450687

>>5449848
>If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

c'mon mate. Even Rush knows this.

Interestingly enough, consequentialism is the difference between batman and superman.

I submit to you that batman would pull the lever, while superman would never pull the lever.

>> No.5450698

>>5450564
same
antinatalism is the future whether you can accept it or not

>> No.5450699

>>5450005
this is the only correct answer

>> No.5450719

>>5450698

>antinatalism
>not babby's first attempt at philosophy

>> No.5450746

here is the final answer
the only reasonable position is that of a practical consequentialist. you realise these 'thought experiments' are completely retarded but if you were in a real life situation that involved trading off human lives, you would generally prefer the one that saved the most people. simple ,easy, no need to fucking wank on about it

>> No.5450750

>>5450746
You are an idiot.

You should not make the choice.

To kill makes you evil.

God is pacifist.

>> No.5450764

>>5450719
How completely and utterly arbitrary.

>> No.5450911

>>5450014
fuck off immanuel

>> No.5451033

>>5449818
According to Zeno's paradox, the train will never be able to reach them. Therefore the question is moot.

>> No.5451041

>>5449818
You know the only solution is to ask God for guidance. Kneel donw and pray upon the lever and God will help you decide. Amen

>> No.5451089

Christian fags: what would jesus do?

>> No.5451091
File: 476 KB, 847x788, Data's first laugh.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5451091

>>5449873
Saved

>> No.5451166

>>5449849
>the coordinate system
okay, i am absolutely done with life

>> No.5451177

>>5451089
Turn the trolley into bread

>> No.5451247

Drag the one guy over to the other 5. Fuck people.

The only legitimate reason to flip the lever is to gain the satisfaction of pulling that huge-ass lever. Just imagine the massively gratifying clunk it would make after a expending the effort to flip it.


And now that I think about it, I would flip the lever, wait for the trolley to kill the single guy, and then flip the lever again so the next trolley kills the other 5. Maximum satisfaction while avoiding the moral dilemma. You're either a shit person because you killed 6 people or you're not a shit person because you think killing 6 people is the right thing to do.

>> No.5451249

>>5451247
>It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under

>> No.5451274
File: 48 KB, 400x300, 1287950499351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5451274

>>5450719
Yes, of course, that's what every entry level philosophag always brags about.

>> No.5451280

>>5450750
>You are an idiot.
Agreed.
>You should not make the choice.
Agreed.
>To kill makes you evil.
Uh... Ok.
>God is pacifist.
Welp.

>> No.5451291

Film it while shouting worldstar... obviously

>> No.5451307

>>5449818

The only fair thing to do is let the trains smash the five first and then go back and smash the last one: equality, that’s the rule.

>> No.5451312
File: 126 KB, 506x267, Drift or die.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5451312

>> No.5451357
File: 17 KB, 361x258, decisions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5451357

>>5449873
Decisions, decisions.

>> No.5451969

>>5451089
save the five guys, then get crucified by them with the wood of the trolley

>> No.5452021

>>5450746
But consciousness adds a very subjective and individualistic value to the problem. If the people were boxes of fruit, the answer would be easy - of course - the value of five boxes of apples outweighs the one, because since a box of apples is the same wherever you go. Humanity is not like that. Who says the value of the one man is less than five? What standards would you even use to judge that?

>> No.5452036

>>5451312
das sum cute animation, mang

>> No.5452040

>>5452021

Not the same guy you're responding to, but there's presumably no time to judge. I assume in the situation outlined in the picture, you just happen to come across this situation and you've got the unenviable position of making a decision as to who dies.

You know nothing about the people tied to the tracks. They may as well be boxes of apples to you.

>> No.5452095

>>5451312
Perfect.

>> No.5452145

This isn't anything groundbreaking, but I think the people who're caught up in this are trying too hard to find the "better" option. There is no better option.

However, there IS a worse option.

>> No.5452176

>>5449818
There is no choice, there is no decision. You will do what you were meant to do from the moment the universe began all events precending that point in time when you are in that situation to make a decision have conspired to make you effect a certain outcome which has already been determined since the dawn of time.
In other words YOU are irrelevent, this thought experiment is totally irrelevent.

>> No.5452192
File: 40 KB, 506x267, bitchesandtrolleys.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5452192

>> No.5453366

>>5449835
Google 'false equivalence' and learn something

>> No.5453387
File: 50 KB, 407x286, the trolley of trickery.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5453387

>> No.5453392
File: 50 KB, 506x267, bait2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5453392

>> No.5453429

>>5453366
How aren't the scenarios equivalent? Serious question.

>> No.5453487
File: 461 KB, 2788x2160, 1404774198537.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5453487

My favorite one

>> No.5456064
File: 984 KB, 3180x2088, 1409744356001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5456064

all you had to do was choose.

>> No.5456080

You can't spell "trolley" without "troll".

>> No.5456936

i would throw myself infront of the trolley because of the crippling doubt

>> No.5456949

>>5449818
Instead of pulling the lever, I would suffocate the solitary guy so that they would all be dead. I hate all of them. I bet all of them have girlfriends. I am 22 years old and guess what? I have never even kissed a girl. While they were out at their parties with beautiful blonde girls, I was sitting in my bedroom rotting in loneliness. I would take pleasure in watching the the tram crush them under its wheels.

>> No.5456953

>>5456936
mastah race

>> No.5456979

>>5449852
You could be helping ebola victims right now. Murderer.

>> No.5456986
File: 17 KB, 360x290, kek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5456986

>>5449873

>> No.5456995

>>5449852
>the logical conclusion to this train of thought is to devote your life solely to helping as many people as is physically possible

>> No.5457000

>>5449831
I almost know Kafka would masturbate to this.

>> No.5457018

>>5449818
I'd let it run over the 4 guys. The number of deaths is irrelevant.

>> No.5457031

Why do all these retards say pulling the lever would be evil? I thought /lit/ was predominantly made up of relativists who don't believe in absolute morality?

I go with what I think is right, or what my intention is (kantianism).

>> No.5457041
File: 16 KB, 621x685, Rest in pepperoni.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5457041

Innocent people don't get themselves tied up to a train track. Random bystanders don't have access to railway controls. And there is always more than one trolley on the line.

>> No.5457131

>>5457031
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're a retard.

I wouldn't pull the lever, because in my opinion, if I do nothing, the person who tied the people to the tracks has murdered four people. However, if I pull the lever, I have killed or at least helped kill a person.

>> No.5457135

>>5456949
I think this is the right answer.

>> No.5457279

>>5452176
>muh hard determinism

>> No.5457424

>>5457031
what does relativism have to do with anything? this is a serious question btw. i am really dumb.

>> No.5457460

>>5449831
>not a mobius strip

>> No.5457502

>>5449873
Almost choked on my tea on this one.

>> No.5457548

>>5449863
switching the lever is not "aid"

>> No.5457580

I guess not pulling it would be the philosophical choice. Even putting 'utility' into consideration, people are not of equal value in the world and any ethics that doesn't take the real world into account is worthless, so 5 > 1 is no good.
Since one can't decide based on value, what's left is to respect all individuals, which means not gambling with their lives. So choose to do nothing.

A good case could probably be made either way though.

>> No.5458430
File: 213 KB, 506x632, Multitrack Drifting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5458430

>>5451312

>> No.5458525

not using philosophy, maths, accounting, ethics
actual situation: after one trolley, another is sure to come soon. if I'm getting involved, i'm actually getting involved. don't know what lever pulling will do, or if it'll actually be possible.
untie the one guy, the guy i'm closer to than the other 5. walk him away
don't even look at lever.

>> No.5458546

>>5457548
turning the wild trolley to another way from five helpless victims about to be crushed by its wheels isn't aid to them? k

>> No.5458640

>>5449835
No, because that's more work.

>> No.5458644

>>5458525
f-fagggot

>> No.5458647

>>5458640
what if it could be made by one button press setting a special robot who would hunt on the streets for them?

>> No.5458654

>>5450687
Doesn't Batman have a thing about never killing? It seems like this is analogous to killing one supervillain vs. letting him live and kill five innocents.

>> No.5458663

>>5452145
You're being pretentious.

>> No.5458666

>>5457460
It is

>> No.5458668

>>5456949
>tram

>> No.5458673

>>5456995
So I may not enjoy my life, but all those people are better off. And ethically, they should also spend their lives helping others, and so on.

>> No.5458677

>>5458647
Can't the money spent on that robot go towards artificial organ research?

>> No.5458681

i dont know why people are talking about "guilt", fucking magical thinking, all that matters is you have a choice pull the lever or dont, and the consequences 4 people die or 1 person dies

i would choose 1 person dying, he would die a pretty noble death, get to feel all proud for a few moments "oh fuck yeah im a hero, take me instead" *splat*