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/lit/ - Literature

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5444924 No.5444924 [Reply] [Original]

Nietzsche was right about Eternal Return. Assume this is the first iteration of your life (to ignore problems of determinism).

How would this change your life choices? Your literary life-style?

Was Nietzsche trying to "free us" and "lighten" our lives with this idea or chain us down and "burden" us with responsibility and seriousness???

>> No.5444929

>>5444924
what's this anime like madonna?

>> No.5444960

>>5444929

stay on topic, this is important

>> No.5444964

that's a sexy virgin mary

>> No.5444973

Eastern Orthodox is so cool
Wish I could make myself believe in their stories...

>> No.5444976

moving to nyc earlier would have been a good idea.
i could have been nicer in once incident but my life has worked out well enough that i have no huge regrets. this is why i think this isn't my first iteration. or maybe i just live a charmed life.

>> No.5445053

>>5444924
You're onto it OP. The fact that no-one is addressing your point is a good indicator.

You need to dig deeper into the apparent duality of those 2 things, it's lame and cliche but they're sides of a coin. You relax in the web you float towards A, you tense up and focus on ego survival you go towards B. Certain contexts make this easier to grasp than others. Consider an involuntary inmate vs a voluntary monastic.

>> No.5445058

>>5444924
A little of both.

To me it seems like people look at a successful man and see all the benefits of his labor but almost none of the work. While one can argue that you position in life is largely attributed to luck rather then outright talent or skill an individual can change his life and the perceptions of others to better, or worsen his chances at success.

For example, I may be born in the United States to a wealthy family but I can easily lead a path to ruin simply through the poor choices I make. In the moment I may feel free to do as I want but I will suffer the consequences of my actions whether or not I am aware of them. Ignorance does not render me immune to a law I do not fully understand.

Now on the flip side I could be born in relative poverty, lead a life of discipline and hard work, take initiative, cultivate my education and plant the seeds for a bright and successful future.

Nietzsche's ubermensch was the product of hard work, not luck. Nietzsche believed in the potential of all living beings and was simply stating that your inner-self is the full realization of this potential. Life may not matter in the grand scheme of things, but to reject existence altogether, to say the sum of the whole is completely meaningless is just as pointless.

I feel that Nietzsche hoped that humanity could change its own fate, instead of just being along for the ride he hoped that men and women would discover their inner god and strive to be the person they truly were deep down in their soul. Why create god and fear him when you could create god and be him? If I do not know my full potential until I have achieved it then why stop becoming greater then I already am? I could do the opposite and say "Even if I am great internally, I will never reach my full potential and it will all be pointless if I did anyway because one day I will die and I will have struggled for nothing."

To live life flippantly is to suffer eternally because you will never realize the full consequence of your actions. We should attempt to reach our potential so that when we die we will never hold regrets, setting ourselves free from negative emotion. Through hard work we will become great and glorious and set ourselves free simultaneously. Tell me how a wealthy, successful man not free? We can have our cake and eat it too, but first we must bake it, craft it, mold it. How can we sit here and blame fate for our pitiful state when we ourselves have not acted accordingly?

Work will set us free, because to work expends energy, energy has no inertia, and therefor we can gain individual power indefinitely. After all, what makes the sun glorious? Is it not the energy that it possesses? Is its magic not just its physical being?

>> No.5445067

>>5445053
In short Nietzsche was freeing, what freedom entails (personal responsibility among others) is something we're not read for and in other ways simply shun.

>> No.5445069
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5445069

>>5444964

>> No.5445083

>>5444976
a
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>> No.5445237

circular time isn't invented by nietzsche though, it's an old concept from ancient greeks and other ancient nations

>>5445058
>After all, what makes the sun glorious? Is it not the energy that it possesses? Is its magic not just its physical being?

it's people's mind

>> No.5445240

>>5445237
Yeah, because isn't the mind energy? That is what separates the brain from the mind. The soul is the unification of the two.

>> No.5445254

>>5445240
but it's not because of energy but because mind it's the only thing which estimates others. 'glorious' it's an estimation

>> No.5445255
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5445255

>>5445058
>Why create god and fear him when you could create god and be him?
>After all, what makes the sun glorious? Is it not the energy that it possesses? Is its magic not just its physical being?

Praise the Sun.

>> No.5445283

>>5445254
Yes. Because people with higher thought are capable of judging others. To be glorious is to have more energy in your life and other people capable of judging you will respect your hard work.

The mind is energy, that is why it is judgmental. That is why Gods judge. Because they have power.

>> No.5445506

>>5445058

Good post.

>> No.5445519

The 'eternal occurrence' is a spook.

>> No.5445536

>>5445058
>We can have our cake and eat it too

Isn't this.. some sort of hedonism persuit?

>> No.5445634

>>5445536

>falling for the hedonist vs non-hedonist paradigm

>> No.5445641

>>5445634
how do i get out?

>> No.5445663

>>5445536

Nietzsche may be the father of Nihilism but he is really calling for a type of Stoicism. Not true stoicism, maybe Nietzsche is a middle ground between hedonism and Stoicism. Nietzsche calls for indulgence but, at the same time believes the natural man will fulfill his destiny without the help of a ridged structure, as stoics believed.

Nietzsche criticizes Stoics by saying we are animals, I do not need to start "living according to Nature" because I AM nature. If I remove all inhibitions I will be free. Stoics on the other hand thought men needed direction and teaching, Hedonists were kinda live and let live.

Nietzsche is saying we are naturally stoic and are of nature. He called for men to become what they are. Natural. After all we are predators and predators are noble and Stoic beings. If I am good at something, am I not a natural? I have talent because it is in my nature.

Hedonism is saying that there is no consequence for enjoying life at your leisure. That we just need to feel pleasure and spread it and that it was the highest form of living, the most natural. Stoics (and Nietzsche) might agree that we can't always live a pleasurable existence without becoming weak and complacent, but we can combat displeasure by not giving a fuck when displeasure arrives and crushing it, rendering negative emotion useless.

Everyone would like to, on some level, be god. Nietzsche is making an appeal to the super ego, the ultimate inner animal of man which is the ultimate predator, and in turn, the most noble and glorious being of man. (According to Nietzsche). To the super ego, an individual man and his perspective is the most natural and noble, and where we will find the most happiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_hedonism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Hopefully I got my point across. You can pull a lot of different meaning out of all of it and I'm just trying to focus it on one perspective and how it relates to others.

>> No.5445664
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5445664

>>5445641
>how do i get out?

>>>/pol/
>ingest the red-pill
>obtain a purely subjective spiritual foundation that dissolves false paradigms.

>> No.5445678

>>5445663
I guess something to add is "God is dead, and we have killed him"

If God is the leader, and I have killed him, doesn't that make me god? Nietzsche was trying to tell people to become individual gods. Unfortunately this might destroy our conceptualization of society. Nietzsche might argue "Natural man is social. There for he will make society, as he is striving to be the best natural beast he can be.

Hedonists don't really care if humans are social, they just care that society brings pleasure.

>> No.5445692

>>5445663
>>5445678

neat!

from the entry of paradox of hedonism:

> David Pearce argues in his treatise The Hedonistic Imperative that humans might be able to use genetic engineering, nanotechnology, and neuroscience to eliminate suffering in all sentient life and allow for peak levels of happiness and pleasure that are currently unimaginable .

Why do i find this repulsive?

>> No.5445727

>>5445692
Because you on some level enjoy struggle. After all isn't the journey more important then the destination?

As I said, hedonists want cake without the struggle. What hedonists want is paradise. They don't even acknowledge pain as a part of human existence and forget that without pain there is no struggle.

How can I progress if I feel no need to?

Hedonists want to live a completely orgasmic experience 100% of the time and make everyone else feel the same way. The fact that someone could enjoy the struggle of others or the struggle itself is alien. Pleasure should out weight pain at all times even at the cost of what some would consider humanity.

Honestly heaven and hell are the same fucking place, just through a different perspective.

>> No.5445738

>>5445727
I guess my point is that hedonism wants singularity, singularity is stagnation. You abhorred stagnation. I could delve into metaphysics and the differences between masculine and feminine, energy and matter.

The point is that some people like the struggle and like it when there is change. The interaction between the physical and spiritual, light and dark, masculine and feminine, hot and cold, predator and prey, energy and matter, pain and pleasure, that is change.

We all want change but we also want things to stay the same. Pain is experienced when there is a change we don't like. Pleasure is when there is a change we do like.

If we are experiencing only pain, or only pleasure, there is no change.

>> No.5447314

>>5445738
you are right.
fucking singularity is death. David Pearce wants to end life.

>> No.5447339

>>5445692
Because hedonism IS repulsive.

>> No.5447358

I've had moments worth reliving infinitely.
I don't see why I wouldn't aim to have more of them whether everything is eternally recurrent or not.

>> No.5447363

>>5445664
People don't believe this but it's true.

>> No.5447586

>>5444960
no it's not, it's complete bullshit. It doesn't matter whether everything happens a gazillion times or just once, because it would feel exactly the same every time, no matter whether 'every time' is just once or a gazillion.

>> No.5447855

Eternal return has nothing to do with reincarnation or anything of the sort. It's a gedankenexperiment, that suppose there was no afterlife, but you'd relive your life exactly as you are doing now. For eternity.
It helps to illustrate how important each decision and moment on this earth is, because our lifespan is finite.

>> No.5448257
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5448257

>>5447586

so if a demon gave you these scenarios, they would be the same to you:

>a: being tortured for an hour and then killed, die into nothingness, no return.

>b: being tortured forever, but every hour you lose all memory and it feels "new" again.

You'd pick b) or a) because they would "feel" the same technically...Ya?

>> No.5448448

>>5444924
I'd probably become a monk in the Thai Forest Tradition.

>> No.5448476
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5448476

>>5448448

what for? nirvana wouldn't be attainable lol

>> No.5448599

>>5448476
Because negative hedonism.