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/lit/ - Literature

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5419454 No.5419454 [Reply] [Original]

Once someone has read the works of these two, why should they bother with anything else?

>> No.5419464

>>5419454
Because you need to understand Marx and Hegel to understand Stirner and Plato and Wagner to understand Nietzsche.

>> No.5419466

because it is possible that their claims are incorrect

>> No.5419471

You can read something and not be completely sold on it. Their individual world views are their own. You will never be them. You are yourself, and you have to discover who you are meant to be. Not who Nietzsche and Stirner were meant to be.

>> No.5419474

>>5419454
Because /lit/ still needs shitposters.

>> No.5419479

Because Foucault was a Nietzscheian who's worth reading.

>> No.5419481

>>5419471
That sounds nice but it's such a relative view of philosophy that I don't see how you can take it seriously anymore
Like hey man become a muslim if that's what you feel bro peace love

>> No.5419484

>>5419481
lol are you for real

>> No.5419490

>>5419484
The point is that we don't even believe in truth, as long as it sounds like a nice worldview to hold it's justified

>> No.5419493

People who read Nietzsche and come out agreeing with everything he says need to fucking reread him

>> No.5419495

>>5419481
Yeah I can see how you could take it that way, but I think there is a sort of person you are meant to be. It's part of your nature as an individual and it requires serious searching to find.

>> No.5419502

>>5419481
Also there's definitely nothing inherently wrong with becoming a Muslim, doing what you feel, or peace or love.

>> No.5419503

>>5419493
I don't think even Nietzsche agreed with a lot of things he wrote

>> No.5419515

>>5419490
It's (probably) not about finding a ready made worldview to hold that is justified. It's (probably) about finding that journey through life that deeply, profoundly satisfies you and brings your internal self into real communion with the external world.

>> No.5419522

>>5419515
That's very existentialist though isn't it? I can't help feeling there's something really bad about this acceptance of completely contrary worldviews and being unable to argue them and take a stance they're wrong.

>> No.5419534

would he even think of doing so?

someone asking that question op just shows he's read nothing and surelly usually pretends to have read a lot

>> No.5419828

>>5419454
post-systematic thinkers can still be worthwhile

>> No.5419862

>>5419503
Yeah, that kinda the point. It's understandible to agree wholeheartedly with a very logical and clear-speaking philosopher like Kant (like his style or not, he's straightforward if not always easy). But Nietzsche argued for the value of disagreement and confrontation and against the pitfall or idolizing ideas. So agreeing with Nietzsche on everything amounts to..not agreeing with Nietzsche at all.

>> No.5419883

>>5419495

this is complete bullshit that stems from out shitty capitalist society that exalts the individual above all else. you do not have some special path to tread and our identities are just the stories we tell ourselves.

>> No.5421197

>>5419883
>shitty capitalist society that exalts the individual above all else
SLAVE MORALITY INCOMING

>> No.5421586

>>5419883
>our identities are just the stories we tell ourselves.

As opposed to the arbitrary and abstract groups we put ourselves in? Are those tangible and real? Please...

>> No.5421606

>>5419454
Yes, Heiddeger, Weber, Jaspers and even Evola would net more benefit to you for the modern world.

>> No.5421614

>>5421606

cool list, and the last name

>> No.5421845

>>5419454
Cross out or replace Nietzsche and you're correct

>> No.5421865

>>5419522
Wait wait wait, who said completely contrary worldviews? I really think that if you contemplate on this subject you will see that the best worldview for all of us, is one that incorporates every other one of us into it, in harmony. If one person is selfish, and takes from others to "satisfy" his own vices, then he will suffer for trying to cause others to suffer. I definitely think there is right and wrong. But within each category there is space enough for every individual to express their own particular way of doing right and doing wrong. I know that you are just as cognizant and aware of your life as I am, and therefore aware just as vividly of your own failures and successes. What is *truly* good for you will also be good for me, because it will be something motivated by love, which implies unity and goodness.

>> No.5421871

>>5419454
I like both of them and all, but nigger, pls.

>> No.5421872

>>5419464
Marx is for 14 year olds.

>> No.5421875

>>5419883
I disagree. I think that we do have a special path to tread. The space our consciousness occupies is not occupied by anything else. And the way we occupy the space we occupy is completely up to us. And, actually, I think this is a very existentialist idea, that we are in charge of what we have and have a responsibility to figure out what is the best (meaning most loving, for us and those around us) way to be who we are in the space and time which we are allotted.

>> No.5421885
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5421885

>>5421872
Are you even trying?

>> No.5421886

>>5419464
>Hegel and Marx
More like Hegel and Bauer.

>> No.5421892
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5421892

>>5421875
>The space our consciousness occupies is not occupied by anything else.
That's way 2deep4me

>> No.5421897
File: 346 KB, 500x380, 3tM9vhm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5421897

>>5421872

>> No.5421965

>>5419464
You need Stirner to understand (philosophical) Marx, while you need Feuerbach, Hegel and other Young Hegelians to understand Stirner.

Nietzsche you need Schopenhauer and the Greeks.

>> No.5421970

>>5419883
>thinking Capitalism exalts the individual
>>5421197
>Thinking Capitalism has any relation to a master morality

>> No.5421981

>>5421970

>capitalist society. lrn 2 reed

.>>5421197
implying i think in terms of the slave/master dichotomy

>>5421586
i agree with you

>> No.5421993

>>5421981
I was using it as a synonym...

>> No.5422041

1. You don't understand Stirner.
2. You don't understand Nietszche.
3. Read Hegel.

>> No.5422052

>>5421965
Schopenhauer implies Kant, Spinoza and Descartes (well, and Plato, obviously).

>> No.5422315

>>5422052
Nietzsche never read Kant, so his Kant is actually Kant-via-Schopenhauer.
Nietzsche is weird in his engagement of philosophy.

>> No.5422352

>>5421865
>TFW people refuse to acknowledge this obvious basic truth

>> No.5422363

>>5421875
We aren't in charge of what we have.
We are born into material conditions. These define us more than we define ourselves. We I'll never have full knowledge of our material conditions, but they still make us who we are, to a large degree. For example, I was born in 1994, so I can't become a Roman Emperor because the material conditions necessary for my becoming such a b3inf do not exist.
Existentialism is for people who don't get Hegel, Heidegger, or Marx, and you don't even get existentialism.

>> No.5422567

These are probably retarded questions but they've always bugged me.
Why is the Ubermensch (even as an unattainable ideal) a more desirable goal than the last man? Why is it better to be life-affirming than life-negating other than as a matter of preference?

>> No.5422610

>>5419454
Because philosophy didn't quite end with them. Move on to Baudrillard and then Alex Kierkegaard.

>> No.5422660

>>5421865
Nietzsche actually wrote about people just like you. I would rather choose to suffer and do what is necessary to see my goals achieved than live in your world of peace and harmony. By necessity, when one dares to defy the norm one comes into conflict with those who want to qualify what he is trying to do as evil or wrong. You just choose to ignore them. You really should read Nietzsche to realize the life-affirming concepts you don't even know you are giving up.

>> No.5422709

>>5421865
>What is *truly* good for you will also be good for me
None of us are equals so this isn't possible. You can inherit a philosophy which incorporates everyone, like Nietzsche's will to power, but that doesn't mean everyone will accept it. Accepting even the most fundamental aspects of reality is a very difficult thing for many people.

>> No.5422724

>>5422660

stop venerating the fantastical escapisms of a syphilitic weakling.

>> No.5422734

>>5422724
Stop talking shit to look smart.

>> No.5422807

>>5422567
Because Freddy couldn't afford to be a pessimist because of how sick he was. He needed to overcompensate for that.

>> No.5423275

>>5422709
Thus, one should root one's worldview in the facts one has access to and not worry about 'assembling' a philosophy.

Read Wittgenstein's On Certainty and see if you still have any bad questions like the ones plebs like to ask.

>> No.5423313

>>5422724
You can't reason with nihilists who refuse to read Hegel

>> No.5423315
File: 16 KB, 300x386, Jacques-Louis_David_-_Marat_assassinated_-_Google_Art_Project_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5423315

>>5422041
seconding Hegel

>> No.5423928

>>5421970
Hating individualism and being in favor of collectivism, certainly has a relation to slave morality.

>> No.5423938

>>5419454
If there are five philosophers everyone must read, they are Plato, Descartes, Hegel, Marx, and Wittgenstein.

>> No.5426052

because people can read for enjoyment
because reading isnt a contest

>> No.5426193

>>5423313
Would you recommend starting with Phenomenology? I tried reading philosophy of right but couldn't really penetrate what he was getting at, mostly due to his style (I'm a dummy).

>> No.5426310

>>5421965
>Schopenhauer
read this http://www.lsr-projekt.de/poly/ennietzsche.html

>> No.5428027

>>5422315
>Kant-via-Schopenhauer.
This plus KU is more than enough.