/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5401019]

why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash, etc, but love nietzsche?

the more i read nietzsche the more i see that he is the progenitor and foundation of most, if not all postmodern philosophy. many of his ideas and thoughts in his books and letters become the major theses and projects of postmodern philosophers. foucault is the most clear example, to me he seems like the most direct and loyal student of nietzsche. deleuze, derrida, butler, all are heir to nietzscheian analysis. his mind dominates the academy at the moment.

then in an even more confusing move, reactionaries cite enlightenment thinkers as representing their views in the very same breath that they lionize nietzsche! do these people just never read? or fail to grasp what they little they have?

[Anonymous No.5401044]

>>5401019
They haven't read him.

[Anonymous No.5401045]

>>5401019

Because reactionaries havent actually read him. They pretend to.

[Anonymous No.5401081]

it hasn't got anything to do with the thread's problematic but in case one would want to start reading nietzsche what would be the first of his books to read?

[Anonymous No.5401086]

they don't. where are you getting this idea?

[Anonymous No.5401091]

>>5401081
Genealogy of morals, or Twilight of the Idols.

[Anonymous No.5401093]

>>5401044
>>5401045
Both confirmed for whimsically claiming they haven't read him when they themselves haven't read him
>>5401019
It's because post-modernists only accept a small portion of Nietzsche's writings. Mostly the genealogy of morality.

How ever if they actually bothered to read him they would see that he believed Christianity was dead and that a new subjective european morality needed to be constructed because christian morality was being secularized into socialism and egalitarianism which would degenerate us into his "last man".

[Anonymous No.5401095]

>>5401019
>why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash, etc, but love nietzsche?

Because they're fucking idiots who don't care about consistency whatsoever?

[Anonymous No.5401114]

>>5401093

>It's because post-modernists only accept a small portion of Nietzsche's writings. Mostly the genealogy of morality.

Arer you kidding me? The genealogy of morals is the most reactioanry work by Nietzsche, it revolts against everything and stands in quite a different light from Zarathustra which is his more complete vision.

Also what the fuck does egalitarianism and socialism have to do with post-modernism?Post-modernism is quite clear in that it refuses utopias and visions of political fulfilment.

[Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo No.5401117]

>>5401019
>his mind dominates the academy at the moment.

Pomos say they have understood Nietzsche, and then they blink.

[Anonymous No.5401122]

>>5401019

I'm a reactionary and I reject Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.5401135]

>>5401122
On what grounds?

[Anonymous No.5401144]

>>5401114
Leftists (not liberals) are against the "last man" as well. The last man is the passive consumer

[Anonymous No.5401164]

>>5401144
>leftism
>not secular Christianity with more inconsistency

[Anonymous No.5401184]

>>5401164
Generally said leftists believe that passive consumer type of person is created by capitalist/consumerist powers in order to keep the proletariat down from questioning their own exploitation.

[Anonymous No.5401186]

>>5401114
>Post-modernism is quite clear in that it refuses utopias and visions of political fulfillment

So would post-modernist/modernist politics be closes to proto-fascism? It seems to me like the Futurists, Dandies, Gabriele D'Annunzio, ect. are the closest in line with modernist thought, while communists are stuck a hundred years in the past and liberals/right-wingers are stuck even further back.

[Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo No.5401191]

>>5401184
Yes, they have no understanding of the fact that post-industrial revolution capitalism is made of multiple people all striving to succeed, not of a gigantic conspiracy against the proletariat[1].

[1] Disappeard from the West circa 1945

[Anonymous No.5401193]

>>5401186
Post-modernists (as in, French Continentals) generally said are nihilistic Marxists who aren't very political in the end.

[Anonymous No.5401196]

Nietzsche was the stereotypical fedora tipper with his "god is dead" meme.

[Anonymous No.5401198]

>>5401186
Yes.

[Anonymous No.5401201]

>>5401191
> Proles disappered after WW2
if this is your understanding of Marxism, I'd advise you to not try to critique it

[Anonymous No.5401202]

Didn't Thus Spoke Zarathustra sell like 47 copies in its first edition. . .? Poor Nietzsche. I don't know how he stayed so positive with the shit he went through.

I suppose there is hope, even its posthumous hope.

[Anonymous No.5401214]

>>5401202
>I don't know how he stayed so positive with the shit he went through
that's literally his philosophy.

[Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo No.5401222]

>>5401202
>I am no man, I am dynamite.— Yet for all that, there is nothing in me of a founder of a religion—religions are affairs of the rabble; I find it necessary to wash my hands after I have come into contact with religious people.— I want no "believers"; I think I am too malicious to believe in myself; I never speak to masses.— I have a terrible fear that one day I will be pronounced holy: you will guess why I publish this book before; it shall prevent people from doing mischief with me.

Nietzsche also said he wrote in an obscure way on purpose, so that plebs wouldn't understand him.

[Anonymous No.5401227]

>>5401214
>Gradually it has become clear to me what every philosophy so far has been: namely, the personal confession of its author and a kind of involuntary and unconscious memoir
Anons I think we're on to something.

[Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo No.5401231]

>>5401227
>>5401214
>all philosophy is the biography of a body

[Anonymous No.5401239]

>>5401117
Tripfags say they have read and understood Nietzsche, and then they don't blink because they are actually blind.

[Anonymous No.5401253]

>>5401117
what the fuck tallis I thought you left forever

[Anonymous No.5401255]

>>5401222
> I think I am too malicious to believe in myself; I never speak to masses.— I have a terrible fear that one day I will be pronounced holy

Something tells me he would be pretty horrified if he could see what his philosophy has become.

[Anonymous No.5401259]

>>5401019
>why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash, etc, but love nietzsche?
because people who call themselves reactionaries clearly have no idea what they're talking about. As far as I'm concerned, reactionaries, postmodernists and positivists are destined for the same circle of philosophy hell.

[Anonymous No.5401262]

>>5401222

You obviously don't excel at reading against the grain, and willfully close your eyes to avowals disguised as disavowals.

[Anonymous No.5401266]

>>5401255
He would be laughing.

[Anonymous No.5401273]

>>5401231
Its almost like a spirit watching Nietzche over in silence, the philosopher not acknowledging that he is merely re-iterating what was once said by the German Spirit when Napoleon rode out into Jena.

[Anonymous No.5401275]

>>5401186

No they mostly stand politicaly to the left but with no real allegiance to politics, they are certainly opposed to all totalitarianisms.

What resembles post-modernism the most is Pyronic scepticism, Satire and disjointed philosophers similar to Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.5401278]

>>5401191

There isn't a conspiracy against the working class because it's in pretty plain sight the ways in which workers are abused by the system. Unless you make capital gains at the same rate as the upper echelon of the financial world (hint: you don't), the value of your capital is always being degraded. So you work and work and at the end of the year you have less than what you started with.

[Anonymous No.5401279]

>>5401193
Last time I remember flipping through "Le Philosophie Trimestriel" or whatever the French where claiming to have invented fascism in the first place.

Also I don't think it would be a huge leap to go from Nihilistic Marxist to Gentilian Futurist.

Also there's that whole soundbite about causation and correlation and this definitely is something to watch out for with people as trendy as the french.

>>5401198
fugg off nazi scum.

[Anonymous No.5401284]

>>5401279

Post-modern fascism is really a thing.

It's also known as the United States of America.

[Anonymous No.5401286]

>>5401279
> Last time I remember flipping through "Le Philosophie Trimestriel" or whatever the French where claiming to have invented fascism in the first place.
Yeah, but those were modernists. After holocaust, Disneyland and Pruit-Igoe, philosophers lost their faith in grand narratives: that is what makes postmodernism for most.

To be a futurist one needs faith, the thing these people have the least.

[Anonymous No.5401289]

>>5401081
The Gay Science.

[Anonymous No.5401292]

>>5401273
Was he part of the plan?

[Anonymous No.5401295]

>>5401275
>Satire
>The freaky deaky french pedophile who disowned Junger over political pettiness
>Can't even write an interesting book in French

How does this guy have claim over Nietzsche? Also most proto-fascists were outside the political spectrum with a lot of overlap on the both the right and left.

[Anonymous No.5401316]

>>5401295

No I didn't mean Sartre, I meant Satire.


All works of Satire, especially those that parody works of mass culture and mix both highbrow and lowbrow are post-modern by nature.

Because culture is so referential the sign of particular thing is twisted into meaning multiple things until it becomes grotesque or something completely different. Confusion mixed with alertness is also desirable.

A nice modern day example in music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcsYSJwewWk

[Anonymous No.5401329]

>>5401316
vaporwave is shit though

[Anonymous No.5401330]

>>5401286
>philosophers lost their faith in grand narratives
Didn't Giovanni Gentile straight up reject grand narratives on page numbero uno of Mussolini's book? The Futurists hated the roman narrative being played by Mussolini and wanted future generations to straight up cap them so they wouldn't be weighing people down with their own narratives. Anyways the way Fascists treated their grand narratives was closer to some sort of heroic Nietzchien dandyism than actual faith (extreme obsession with image, love of theatrics, re-inventing history according to their own desires, ect.)

[Anonymous No.5401333]

>>5401329

You just don't get it.

You really should try though, considering you frequent 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5401339]

>>5401333
>"getting" vaporwave
how thick can you be

there's maybe one or two artists that make good stuff that comes close to vaporwave

[Anonymous No.5401348]

>>5401316
thats not ecco jams

[Anonymous No.5401360]

>>5401339

Floral Shoppe is a post-modern masterpeice.

It' a work of conceptual genius, it contains within it a whole age while at the same time parodying it and is disgusted by it's state .

The glitchiness repressents the breaking up of what we desire from these sounds (nostalgia) and forces us to look at the consumerist soundbyte more criticaly.

[Anonymous No.5401363]

>>5401360
go back to tumblr

[Anonymous No.5401365]

>>5401363

Kill yourself , ape.

[Anonymous No.5401367]

>>5401333
Try to not use the structure "get it" in 4chan because you'll always get shit in response. When you feel that there's a context or an interpretation that gives more value to something you can try expressing it. If it's something that goes beyond meaning and comes from repeated interactions you can try with "it justs clicks", "sometimes it makes more sense" or many other phrases that avoid triggering the usual kneejerk reaction.
4chan has more trigger words than tumblr.

[Anonymous No.5401374]

>>5401365
No, I'd understand if you had chosen FSV or Eccojams, but mac+ is fucking terrible

[Anonymous No.5401378]

>>5401259
How are they destined for philosophical hell?

[Anonymous No.5401386]

>>5401367

I don't subscibe to subjectivist aesthetics, everything has a context.

You want to be a drop of water in a sea of opinion that fine, but don't expent your juvenile understanding to stand.

In 4chan, we are all post-modern petty-subjects, alway unable to stand above the structure. (the very form of the internet does not allow this).

[Anonymous No.5401396]

>>5401374

Listen to it again, more carefully, the lyrics are a work of genious.

Post-Irony is bullshit, I like my music with an extra dose of nostalgia destruction.

[Anonymous No.5401404]

>>5401396
>lyrics

[Anonymous No.5401433]

>>5401367

>4chan has more trigger words than tumblr.

This is very true. It took me a while to realize how close-minded and herdlike 4chan is. There's a pretty specific set of styles of posting and if you don't fit within it you get pointed out and "made an example of."

I imagine this is all the result of the language on this site being mostly fueled by negativity and insecurity, so it encourages people to pretend to be something to fit in.

Most of the morality and aesthetics on 4chan is found through the negation of value because we're too weak to just posit our own value. This is also why 4chan over time is gaining more and more of a reactionary/conservative demographic.

[Anonymous No.5401434]

>>5401114
It may be, but it was subsumed by post-modernists like Foucault and Butler to undermine western morality so they could push forward gay and female liberation.

[Anonymous No.5401453]

>>5401433

Good post. Would read again and nod internally in agreement.

kekek. Sorry for the irony. Those social puppet strings are taut.

[Anonymous No.5401464]

>>5401434
>undermine western morality

Western LACK OF morality, amirite?

[Anonymous No.5401475]

>>5401433

[Anonymous No.5401498]

>>5401433
Nah, we can post whatever we want. You just have to know that you have a 70% chance of being in a conversation with a teen or someone with the emotional stability of a teen. If it were always like that we wouldn't be interacting like this right now, but the main appeal of the site is the random encounter. It's no surprise people here like omegle so much.
You have to avoid certain boards with more of a herd mentality like /pol/ or /co/, but you also have some where people is pretty open and gives zero fucks about how their posts may be taken like /p/ or sometimes /lit/

[Anonymous No.5401519]

>>5401433
It wasn't always like that. This whole "I have to be edgy to fit in" mentality came here only over last two years, when redditors flooded /pol/ and thought they had to post certain maymays in order to be accepted as 4channers.

[Anonymous No.5401521]

>>5401433
This is fuelled because of >>5401498

4chan's main demographic is mostly insecure asocial teens, or robots. Most of the people here don't really give a shit how you post, but if you go on a board like /pol/, it's a pure hivemind.

[Anonymous No.5402329]

>>5401433
People are conservative here because you can't be so in public

[The cats No.5402354]

>>5401519
>People posting this unironically

Faggot

[Anonymous No.5402397]

>>5402354
You are the best proof of his post.

[Anonymous No.5402412]

>>5401019
>deleuze, derrida, butler, all are heir to nietzscheian analysis.

but Nietzsche's ideas had intellectual rigor, unlike the tripe these duffers scribbled

[The cats No.5402421]

>>5402397
If you really believe that the website that used to troll people to death, post an entire section dedicated to CP and gore, and made chris-chan one of the most thoroughly documented people in history started "being edgy recently because of redditors trying to mimmick /pol/" you are a level level of retarded hitherto unseen.

[Anonymous No.5402436]

>>5401498
>You just have to know that you have a 70% chance of being in a conversation with a teen or someone with the emotional stability of a teen.

The amount of high school and college freshman/sophomore threads on /lit/ is making it all too obvious that I'm getting to old for this 4chan shit.

I gotta get my life on track.

[Anonymous No.5402442]

>>5401284

[Anonymous No.5402455]

>why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash

But that's wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Benoist

>His influences include Antonio Gramsci,[7] Ernst Jünger, Anthony Ludovici, Jean Baudrillard, Georges Dumézil, Ernest Renan, José Ortega y Gasset, Vilfredo Pareto, Guy Debord, Arnold Gehlen, Stéphane Lupasco, Helmut Schelsky, Konrad Lorenz, the German Conservative Revolutionary movement, and the Non-conformists of the 1930s.

The ones who outright dismiss post-modernism are mostly Anglo-American liberals.

[Anonymous No.5402456]

Nietzsche was the daddy of modernism.

Post-modernism isn't a thing, just a buzzword took up by academics because they need something to do. Post-modernism is the first -ism that doesn't serve any other purpose than that.

[Anonymous No.5402470]

>>5401019
Reactionaries don't think. Being a reactionary requires severe mental deficiency.

[Anonymous No.5402478]

>>5402442
That's not "fedora".

[Anonymous No.5402479]

>>5401184
And yet their only claim to sucess is through providing the last man enough to consume (not only material things, but sexually too). See >>5401278

Someone has read Thomas Piketty and now he just wants to provide the working class more money, so they can spend it on beer and sluts.

[Anonymous No.5402497]

>>5401114
>The genealogy of morals... stands in quite a different light from Zarathustra

No it doesn't. It is, along with Beyond Good and Evil, literally an after-the-fact exordium of the ideas contained in Zarathustra.

[Anonymous No.5402500]

>students in Italy and Germany read a bunch of works by Michel Foucault, Antonio Negri and Herbert Marcuse
>"now i realize it, liberal democracies are just fascism in disguise, if only we can provoke them into violent action the proletariat will awake from their false consciousness and alienation!!!"
>failed spectacularly

Why people take post-modernism seriously when the "revolution" inspired by their writings was so pathetic?

[Anonymous No.5402504]

>>5401184
>capitalist/consumerist powers in order to keep the proletariat down

The idea of systemic oppression preventing action is very Last Man.

[Anonymous No.5402506]

>>5402500

wow they must've seriously misunderstood Foucault if he inspired them to violent revolution. Foucault is pretty rigorously against any sort of violence.

[Anonymous No.5402509]

>>5402478

[Anonymous No.5402510]

>>5401114
Post-modernism goes away from the notion of achieving utopia through "Reason", but the "dream" is still there, just by now to be achieved by force and cunning, which is why they turned to Nietzche.

In the end, what every intellectual want, from Karl Kautsky to Giorgio Agamben, is to rule as a privileged priestly class not unlike the Brahmin of India or the Magi of Persia.

[Anonymous No.5402513]

>>5401019
They do the same thing as Christians and use proofs of the inability to lay fundamental foundations as proof that arguments against their lack of a foundation have no foundation and thus their foundationless beliefs are completely justified and are completely impossible to critique

[Anonymous No.5402518]

>>5402510
And of course, for the intelligentsia to rule as a priestly class, they need a aristocracy, which is to be found in organized crime. Which is why criminologists use Foucault to excuse the violent behavior of gangs and let them roam free instead.

Real, raw biopower is a drug lord entering your house to rape your daughter while another thug points an AR-15 to your back, but as long the criminals answer to academic intellectuals and derive their legitimacy from their Theories, that's ok.

[Anonymous No.5402524]

>Nietzche: "we should get rid of weak people."
>Post-modernist interpretation: "he is talking that we need communist revolution to end alienation and exploitation so."
>what he meant: "kill them all."

That's how Nietzche became a left-wing icon.

[Anonymous No.5402529]

The distrust many people have for postmodernism comes from one of two sources: the Frankfurt school conspiracy and the Sokal affair.

It's not as if these people have read any of the writers in question or that their dismissal is educated.

[Anonymous No.5402535]

>>5402524
>Nietzche
>Left-wing icon

[Anonymous No.5402538]

>>5402509

[Anonymous No.5402548]

>>5402524

>I don't understand Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.5402552]

>>5402548
I'm not the one using Nietzche to justify an adherence to socialism.

[Anonymous No.5402555]

>>5402524
I love how Nietzsche also said "the Jews are smart and clever, going against them is dumb, we should integrate them" and that's taken to mean "Nietzsche absolutely hated racism and stood as an icon of equalitarian virtue"

[Anonymous No.5402558]

Nietzsche wants to cultivate power, postmodernists want to dismantle it.

[Anonymous No.5402569]

>>5402558
Postmodernists want to dismantle current power structures so they can build their own.

Just look at the way Horkheimer treated his collaborators during his directorship of the Frankfurt School.

[Anonymous No.5402577]

Renzo Novatore is the truest example of a practicing Nietzschean.

[Anonymous No.5402581]

>>5402577
That's not Pablo Escobar.

[Anonymous No.5402586]

>>5401019
>why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash, etc, but love nietzsche?

They don't love all of Nietzsche, they love Nietzsche insofar as he is right, red-pilled and reactionary.

Most likely they haven't read Evola yet; that's the real problem we have today.

[Anonymous No.5402812]

>>5401135

Concious reactionaries reject Nietzsche on ground of self-made meaning instead of pre-made meaning primarly.

[Anonymous No.5402817]

>>5402581
escobar was a pleb

[Anonymous No.5402823]

>>5402586
>muh magick tibeto-aryan tigerdragons

[Anonymous No.5402859]

>>5401433
>negation of value/meaning
>conservative trait

what the fuck am i reading

[Anonymous No.5402971]

Because they only see the surface characteristics of Nietzsche's philosophy which rejects democracy, socialism and extols ancient values.

However Nietzsche was clearly not reactionary, he did not want a return to a previous form of pre-modern social and ethical way of life. He also detested militarism (especially Prussian militarism), modern mass nationalism and antisemitism (he actually praises the Jews more than he does Christians). Also historically speaking, many reactionaries have been religious.

Nietzsche's philosophy is highly individualistic, it is a philosophy for "free spirited" individuals. Reactionaries tend to be nationalistic, or at least base their ideology around some kind of view of a nation (or race). Nietzsche would view these parties and groups as just another form of the herd.

[Anonymous No.5402984]

They think they're outside of it. It's the same paradoxical relationship the Nazis had with modernism.

[Anonymous No.5402987]

>>5402971
>Reactionaries tend to be nationalistic

How, if nationalism was born out of the French Revolution, which every reactionary agrees to reject?

[Anonymous No.5402990]

>>5401019
>why do reactionaries totally reject postmodernism as degenerate, charlatans, trash, etc
Everyone should. Nietzsche sucks too but it is insulting to group him with that shit.

[Anonymous No.5403011]

>>5402987
Because it's a romantic perversion of pre-modern society, not reality.

[Anonymous No.5403012]

>>5402987
Fascism and monarchism are nationalistic.

[Anonymous No.5403015]

/lit/ is as stupid when it comes to the right as /pol/ is to the left. Too sides of the same question.

[Anonymous No.5403023]

/lit/ is as stupid when it comes to the right as /pol/ is to the left. Too sides of the same coin.

[Anonymous No.5403051]

>>5403012
>monarchism
>nationalistic
Sure, if by that you mean a century of enlightened despots hanging by a thread trying to retain the little power they had left in a world heading towards republicanism and nationstates. Fascism was a cadaveric spasm.

[Anonymous No.5403105]

>>5401519
>redditors sneak into 4chan in droves
>they pretend to hate reddit
>they claim that reddit hates certain things that they love in reality, such as reactionary thought and kid-diddling
>this is repeated until people on 4chan start agreeing with them
>also, the people of 4chan are convinced never to go to reddit and to mock everyone who has been there
>this is to ensure that no one sees how redditors actually are
>4chan adjusts attitudes accordingly
>4chan is now reddit

But of course, we're much too smart for that. Who would be retarded enough to believe that the website that made national news for defending their hosting of /r/jailbait would reply to pro-pedophilia sentiment (even in an ironic context) with "ew, that's nasty"?

[Anonymous No.5403119]

>>5402586
>red-pilled
>I'm totally not a degenerate, guys. I just have a worldview that hinges entirely on an analogy lifted from a C-tier sci-fi film written by a transgender.

/pol/, everybody.

[Anonymous No.5403140]

>>5403119

>incoherent gibberish

[high impact sexual violence !!1Fa7LzeI6u8 No.5403160]

>>5401117

haha, i'll have to agree with child molester over here...

by the time aidslord, and the remaining french pederasts finished their interpretations, freddy was breakdancing in his grave

[Anonymous No.5403187]

>>5403140
Mate, that was in perfect English. Why can't you just assimilate to your surrounding culture? Because it's either that or deportation.

[Anonymous No.5403205]

>Post-Modernism
>Nihilism
>Proto-Fascism
>Reactionaries
>Futurism
>Neo-Marxist

I miss the days when it was "Right and Left" and "Republicans and Democrats".

Why can't we just go back to those days, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.5403218]

>>5401081
>problematic

[Anonymous No.5403289]

>>5401396
>Post-Irony is bullshit
Fuck off pleb

[Anonymous No.5403291]

>>5403187

[Anonymous No.5403294]

>>5401360
That album may be a masterpiece, or at least a great album

Vaporwave as a whole is nothing more than a joke that was chuckle worthy the first time it was told, and then collapses as it is repeated over and over again for months.

[Anonymous No.5403414]

>>5401360
That album may be a masterpiece, or at least a great album

Vaporwave as a whole is nothing more than a joke that was chuckle worthy the first time it was told, and then collapses as it is repeated over and over again for months.

[Anonymous No.5403455]

>>5403119
>implying that phrase wasn't used before the Matrix

[Anonymous No.5403617]

>>5403119
Philip K. Dick came up with the Matrix in the 70s.

[Anonymous No.5403674]

>>5401019
Because they assume the most shallow caricatures of his work (i.e. jew hating, nazi supporting, strength worshipping) are accurate. That and he's German.

The whole things hilarious.

[Anonymous No.5404168]

>>5403012
Fascism was opposed to reaction. I mean, read the Nazi anthem, they put reactionaries together with communists as enemies of Nazism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied

>Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries, march in spirit within our ranks.

[Anonymous No.5404182]

>>5401498
>but you also have some where people is pretty open and gives zero fucks about how their posts may be taken like /p/ or sometimes /lit/
if you think /p/ issn't hivemind as fuck then you're horribly deluded. It's worse than /lit/.

[Anonymous No.5404278]

What's wrong with grand narratives, anyway?

[Anonymous No.5404279]

>>5403617
Please, Germany made the first Matrix movie in 1973
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_on_a_Wire

[Anonymous No.5404281]

>>5404168
>German article for the Horst Wessel Lied
>It's got a gold star

top kek

[Anonymous No.5404284]

>>5402555
He also wrote that all groups of people have the potential to produce outstanding individuals.

After all, even the people he hated the most (Germans) produced Nietzsche, right?

Doesn't get any more egalitarian than that.

[Anonymous No.5404294]

Am I the only one who thinks the progressive/reactionary divide is absolutely retarded?

Both "progressive" and "reactionary" are fundamentally based on a linear view of history, ideas, morality, and socioeconomic organization that is absolutely retarded. The idea that something is "forward" or "backward" on some imaginary line, the idea that some people want to go in one direction and others in the opposite is utterly retarded.

And people (by which I mean marxists) make it even stupider with teleological fantasies: not only is there a rail track, and not only should we be making "progress", but the tracks end at some point! And there's a well-stocked station there!

Especially in a discussion of Nietzsche this seems doubly absurd. BG&E isn't about going in one direction or the other. There is no direction, so fucking fly away into the sky.

[Anonymous No.5404301]

>>5404168
You have to know that this is the song of the SA, which was much more "left leaning" than the rest of the NSDAP and saw itself "sozialrevolutionär", social revolutionary (which AFAIK is also where that S in NSDAP comes from). Once the SA leadership was murdered during the Röhm Putsch, this left element disappeared from the NSDAP.

[Anonymous No.5404302]

>>5404294
Read Popper's The Poverty of Historicism, if I understand you correctly you'll find your ideas in there.

[Anonymous No.5404735]

>>5403674
That fit would have been decent if it weren't for the shoes and if the shirt was ironed.

[Anonymous No.5406407]

>>5401278
>So you work and work and at the end of the year you have less than what you started with.
>implying

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf

[Anonymous No.5406421]

>>5404294
>BG&E isn't about going in one direction or the other
Hell yeah nigga, you can choose your own direction!

[Anonymous No.5406424]

>>5401019

Nietzsche's only "disciple" was Baudrillard, but B would never admit it outright. The rest are charlatans.

Nietzsche is also the most serious ("hardcore") philosopher of all time, everything else is child's play, even the Hegel everyone is desperately trying to claw their way back to.

[Anonymous No.5406429]

>>5404302
Just a general statement: /lit/ should pay more attention to Popper.

[Anonymous No.5406434]

>neoreactionaries
>monarchists
>anyone that considers themselves part of "The Dark Enlightenment"

[Anonymous No.5406436]

>>5406429
no

[Anonymous No.5406493]

>>5406434

Sadly these idiots are among us and have a lot of power on the internet.
I remember an anon on /pol/ saying how he was once a part of the Dark Enlightenment and how he got out when he realised that it was a cult made up of white,male psychos.

[Anonymous No.5406518]

>>5406493
"We're like the enlightenment, but instead of Rousseau and Voltaire we've got a pick up artist blogger and some autistic techie who thinks he should be a philosopher king"

[Anonymous No.5406595]

>>5406493
>a lot of power on the internet
i don't think so, buddy

[Anonymous No.5408129]

>>5406493
We work in the shadows.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us xD

[Anonymous No.5408157]

>>5404301
It was the NSDAP anthem even after the SA dissolved.

[Anonymous No.5408162]

They haven't read him and I'm willing to bet they haven't read much of their poster child Evola either.

[Anonymous No.5408192]

>>5403012
>Monarchism
>Nationalistic
Shiggy, monarchism and nationalism are completely irreconcilable unless you have an extremely warped and weaksauce view of nationalism.

Also
>fascism
>reactionary
Fascism is very much so one of the great revolutionary ideologies of the 20th century. It's very telling that Mussolini before he invented fascism was a communist and that the NSDAP before it was taken over by Hitler was in essence a communist party.

[Anonymous No.5408198]

>>5406424
Please. The only reason Nietzsche remains relevant is because of the work of Heidegger, Deleuze, and Foucault.

[Anonymous No.5409255]

>>5402506
I don't think Foucault is against violence as such, I'm pretty sure he would agree as a Nietzschean that there is always some form of violence (the way there are always power relations), that violence in a more general sense is an aspect of every joy, pleasure, learning, thinking.
But he is against any sort of "revolution", which can obviously only exist if you have a crystallized power - which is precisely what revolution often thinks is fighting against. So in the end it is just replacement of one crystallized power with another, even if the content changes.

Instead, Foucault might see a way forward in "heterotopias":
http://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/foucault1.pdf

[Anonymous No.5409276]

>>5402524
"post-modernists" are not in agreement with Marx and are quite against communism, that is their point and they turned to Nietzsche because of their dissatisfaction with communist ideas.
I agree they used Nietzsche in their own way, re-appropriated some of his views. But it is still a very good interpretation, however not the only one, and they are very aware it. E.g Derrida says in some interview that nazi interpretation of Nietzsche makes sense to some extent, which I think shows their honesty and effort not to be too dogmatic, admitting many other possibilities.
Furthermore, they're not even claiming to be Nietzscheans as such. They use many many other authors that are very different from Nietzsche, so accusing them of not completely following Nietzsche is some sort of confusion of what they're trying to say.

[Anonymous No.5410007]

>>5401093
>christian morality was being secularized into socialism and egalitarianism which would degenerate us into his "last man"
So fucking true.
Most Socialists do not even realise what they are essentially promulgating is a christian based ethics which they believe to be objectively imperative simply because they do not know other wise. These people mostly being atheists.
It's like some thing I read by him once about the "people in the towns" or some thing. This is coming off the top of my head, but I will try to explain it. As if, in 1800s people were still part of the church, but there was this thing as if if you actually spoke seriously with some one about their religion, they would brush most things off as ridiculous which is actually inherent to the practice of the religion, and yet they keep certain things, such as the ethics of the religion. This is essentially the same today, only the religion is gone, but the ethics still remain.

[Anonymous No.5410010]

>>5408192
>Shiggy, monarchism and nationalism are completely irreconcilable unless you have an extremely warped and weaksauce view of nationalism.
you mean the accurate and historical view of nationalism

>Fascism is very much so one of the great revolutionary ideologies of the 20th century. It's very telling that Mussolini before he invented fascism was a communist and that the NSDAP before it was taken over by Hitler was in essence a communist party.
completely wrong, fucking pleb

[Anonymous No.5410015]

>>5401144
Leftists want to create a world where one is a slave to the pursuit of Equality and political correctness over Joy.
I would definitely consider that a worst case scenario.

[Anonymous No.5410033]

>>5402412
>Nietzsche's idea
>had intellectual rigor

My sides have transcended morality. Freddy is every bit as responsible as everyone else for the loosening of intellectual standards in philosophy.

[Anonymous No.5410037]

>>5401255
What has it become, though?
There is no Nietzchean community.
Plebs haven't read him and intellectuals do not want to say they have read him because he isn't exactly intellectual, in the sense that he is very honest.

[Anonymous No.5410038]

>>5402552
Nobody does that except your strawman. So you're the one making something use Nietzsche to justify an adherence o socialism.

[Anonymous No.5410045]

>>5401278
Why is there any need to treat the unwashed proletariat well?
They provide no use to society aside from doing that job. Why treat them well?
They need that job and they will do it because they have no other choice.

[Anonymous No.5410053]

>>5401316
Capschan?

[Anonymous No.5410066]

>>5401386
>alway unable to stand above the structure. (the very form of the internet does not allow this).
Only thats not true,
if you can appear righteous you can always do so,
and this does not exclude the internet.

[Anonymous No.5410075]

>>5401396
I think the attraction of vape,
first of all, is not some leftists attack on consumerism.
I never felt that and I think that way of describing it or any art is fucking ridiculous.
The first feeling is of course "joy" or some emotion that forces me to return or to feel as though it is necessary I have to listen again or to similar things.
The main thing that makes it attractive is the idea that the era that I lived in and the things that were actually relevant to me are now shown in an idolatrous way and analysed or seen by many.

[Anonymous No.5410083]

>>5401433
4chan provides you with a sense of value by constantly undermining any thing that may seem fallacious,
which is what is posted on tumblr pretty much always.
4chan actually needs to be more objective and ban more things.

[Anonymous No.5410099]

>>5410066
If you are aware of your context and the context of the facts you work with and exercise reason within that awareness, your conclusions are more likely to be valid than those of someone who fails to see himself as a contextual entity and his perception of the facts as perception only.

[Anonymous No.5410117]

>>5410037
>What has it become, though?

An authoritative figure in intellectual (and pseudo-intellectual) circles. He has become an idol, just like he wanted not to be.

>There is no Nietzchean community.

That's irrelevant to wether he is an idol for many people. There's a community of people who read Nietzsche, and inside of that, a community of people who admire Nietzsche or even consider him like a patron saint.

> Plebs haven't read him

He is the first philosopher that your average bookish teenager will have read and liked. Except if you live in the US, where Ayn Rand fills that role instead. He's probably one of the most widely read philosophers ou there.

>intellectuals do not want to say they have read him

In which country do you live ? Nietzsche is quoted by scholars of modern philosophy and literature everywhere. He's an explicit reference from Harold Bloom to Heidegger to almost any leftist French HS teacher of letters.


> he isn't exactly intellectual, in the sense that he is very honest.

In don't see what you mean here. He's a very confrontational intellectual, but an intellectual nonetheless. His insights come from practicing philology and reading French and German authors as well as (but that's the same for everyone) from his personal life. You don't get that much more intellectual. And I don't see how he is more "honest" than any serious intellectual. He has a more snappy (but also more ambiguous) style, that is all.

[Anonymous No.5410127]

>>5403617
But did he use the term?

[Anonymous No.5410133]

>>5401433
I think you are too weak-willed to post whatever you want on an anonymous imageboard. If your theories had any truth, there wouldn't be "shitposting". 4chan is an anti-herd. People antagonize each other intentionally.

[Anonymous No.5410157]

>>5410010
>Mussolini before he invented fascism was a communist
He was a socialist and he came to realise it was shit.

[Anonymous No.5410160]

>>5410007
>It's like some thing I read by him once about the "people in the towns" or some thing.
I think I know what you're referring to, and he repeats that quite often in his works. One clear example is in Genealogy of Morals, I'm paraphrasing a bit here:
>It's church that we dislike, not its poison.