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/lit/ - Literature

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5387574 No.5387574 [Reply] [Original]

I'm a nihilist and I don't want to be, please convince me that I'm wrong.

>> No.5387582

Why don't you want to be?

>> No.5387583

>>5387574
What would be the point?

>> No.5387587

Why are you a nihilist? What is your view of how the world was created?

>> No.5387588

>>5387582
It's boring and depressing.
>>5387583
I don't know, but I'm hoping there is one.

>> No.5387589

>>5387574

it's only a problem if you want to have objective opinions.

>> No.5387601

>>5387589
Who needs those anyway?

>> No.5387603

>>5387588
It makes no sense to hold on to hope. Hope is misplaced trust in an unknown future state of being.

>> No.5387607

>>5387587
I'm a Nihilist because I can find no inherent value or meaning in anything, I believe the universe may have created by the big bang. I do not know why the universe was created, or if there even is a "why".

>> No.5387610
File: 190 KB, 736x542, Caucasian mountain dog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5387610

>>5387574

take nihilism to it's logical conclusion so it eats itself, then you are free to endow anything with meaning, purpose and significance.

>> No.5387611

>>5387588
>It's boring and depressing.
Why?

>> No.5387616

>>5387607
Inherency is a ridiculous concept.

>>5387610
This guy gets it

>> No.5387617

>>5387589
I can't help but try to have objective opinions, though I've tried deluding myself before.

>> No.5387619

>He doesn't understand the difference between active and passive nihilism

>> No.5387626

1. Reject pessimism and create your own values - Nietzsche
2. Take a leap of faith and trust God - Augustine, Kierkegaard

>> No.5387630

>>5387610
How? I don't see any way in which I can imbue meaning into anything without it being ultimately pointless.
>>5387611
There's no rational reason I find it depressing, I simply do. It's boring because I have reached a dead-end with my search for truth.

>> No.5387634

>>5387630
There are very few absolute truths.

Here's a little song I wrote,
You might want to sing it note for note,
Don't worry, be happy.
In every life we have some trouble
When you worry you make it double
Don't worry, be happy.

>> No.5387658

>>5387619
I understand the difference, both are equally as pointless.

>> No.5387676

>>5387630
>>5387630
>How? I don't see any way in which I can imbue meaning into anything without it being ultimately pointless.


Before I studied nihilism I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers. Then I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and rivers are not rivers.
But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest. For it's just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and rivers once again as rivers.

>> No.5387683

>>5387658
>>5387574

>pointless

I don't understand this concept, can you give me an example of what it is and means? Nihilism is incoherent to me.

>> No.5387685

>>5387676
Okay, Bruce Lee.

>> No.5387692

>>5387658
When you get over the feeling that things need points to be perused or matter to you, the matter will resolved.

>> No.5387693

there isn't really a way to know anything about anything for sure, but nihilism is just ruling out the good options in favor of depressing things you can't do anything about. if you thought of a way to do something about them, you'd rule them out as well.

it is objectively bad to believe in it.

>> No.5387695

>>5387692
This.

TRAVERSE THE FUNDAMENTAL FANTASY

>> No.5388191

>read Stirner
>run amok in the playground of life without a care in the world

>> No.5388207

>>5387610

This or just accepting it are the only options you have left, opie.

>> No.5388231

Read up on ethics and morality, or take an ethics class.

I did that after thinking I would never remove myself from the nihilist rut, and then it fucked me up even more and I quit subscribing to that idea. Although, it could also be Catholic guilt talking.

Either way, there do exist objective truths in this world.

>> No.5388236

>>5388231
>Either way, there do exist objective truths in this world.
What the fuck is that sentence sorry guys
Objective truths exist in this world.

>> No.5388247

>>5387574
read stirner for happy nihilism

>> No.5388320

>>5387574
take dmt

>> No.5388346

>>5388231
This post amused me. It's basically what my answer would have been ("try to understand morality or at least feel some guilt") except you actually did it already.

>>5388236
The sentence was fine.

>> No.5388402

>>5388231
>objective truths exist in this world

Such as?

>> No.5388411

>>5387574
There's no way out. Once you realise there is no truth, or at the least we can't access it, all you can do is watch everyone else try and craft sculptures from clay in perpetual flux and try not to kill yourself

>> No.5388634

>>5388402
there are no truths in an objective truth

>> No.5388637

If things are pointless and meaningless then there believing in something cannot be judged as inferior to being a nihilist believing in nothing. I think this was said before ITT. Now you can choose to believe in anything and even make money off it!

>> No.5388639

>>5388637
>then there
wot

>> No.5388646

>>5388402
Free will.

>> No.5388656

>>5388646
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

funny stuff

>> No.5388663

>>5388646
You are fucking retarded, friend.

>> No.5388695

I don't think Nihilism is wrong in the sense that, its a means of comporting yourself towards the world. Your whole ontology is shaped towards this direction, and your whole mode of referring to things will be mediated through this parallax.

I've been there in College; and I can say that Nihilism can be utilized to get rid of your insecurities regarding what others will think of you etc. yet at the same time, it is something that is quite demand of your time; a resource that living organisms are depraved of.

Its just that with Nihilism, you lose any sense of I guess what you could say enchantment with the World (I would say such notions of enchantment with the world as many people use it is associated with capitalism's packaged concept of it and not a genuine sort of thing). Things appear as mechanical practice, and everything just ends up being a march towards your death. You realize that once you reach sexual maturity, your body is programmed to start withering away. 10% of your Dopamine receptors throughout various parts of your brain waste away every decade after the age of 20, from the age of 28 onwards the human brain loses 1% of its mass every year, etc.

There is something in very act of human action in itself that is life affirming and anti-nihilism. In your going out for a run, lifting weights, taking classes, playing instruments, creating something, interacting with a media thing, there is something in that act that goes against Nihlism; because there is a tacit assumption in that act that says I am going to be alive tomorrow and so this act is not in vain.

There are a myriad of problems in the world that we can all help to address and apply our wills to. Its up to us to pick which ones we want to address and to stick the finger to anyone that stands in our way. ((Mmmm... i think a certain cuntface applied this in his Final Solution))

>> No.5388704

/lit/ please help me I'm a nileist and I don't want to be, convince me the river is wrong

>> No.5388740

>>5388704
not funny, fuck off back to reddit

>> No.5388776

>>5387574
Everything means precisely what it means, and nothing more.
Any parceled off chunk of life means something to another parceled off chunk of life. e.g. the isolated process of rain means a great deal to earth flora.
Everything is connected and meaningful to something else.

Why do you require any other sort of meaning?

What would you do with that meaning if you found it? Roll it up and smoke it?

>> No.5388778

>>5388740
Pthfffffffbt

>> No.5388825

>>5388776
>he doesn't understand nihilism

>> No.5388864

>>5388704
ayy lmao

>> No.5388911 [DELETED] 
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5388911

A more interesting question.

>> No.5388938

>>5387574
being nihilist.. not hedonist.

>> No.5388944

>>5388938
I forget to add, shiggi..whatever.

>> No.5388951

>>5388938
>hedonism
>not negative hedonism

kek, you couldn't possibly be more wrong

>> No.5388955

It sounds more like you're a pessimist, to me.

>> No.5388964

>>5388951
>negative hedonism

you dont need all those words to say "hilism"

>> No.5388978

>>5388964
nihilism

>> No.5388989

>>5388955
is there anyone even half-way intelligent that isn't?

>> No.5388991

>>5388978
Is your brain broken or something?

>> No.5388992
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5388992

OP just treat life like an MMORPG character that you make to be expendable and explore the treacherous world/unlock map locations with.

>everything is fleeting
>we're all just playing in the sun

>> No.5388993

>>5388938
hedonism is like 99% nihilism. to suppose that nothing else has meaning except what pleasures you

>> No.5388995

>>5388825
I see existential nihilism as a simple acknowledgement of reality, and that anyone with some brains will dive into it.
I say: embrace it.
Give up the search for fundamental meaning.
What purpose does it serve to have fundamental meaning? To feel more comfortable in our own skin?

>> No.5389000

>>5388995
>he doesn't understand nihilism and he certainly doesn't understand its consequences

>> No.5389007

>>5388989
Pessimism is not the product of intelligence; it is the product of exceissive *intellectualism*. Once your fanta--er, abstract ideas diverge so from reality from reality that the two are utterly irreconcilable, then you become a pessimist.

To be a nihilist proper, one cannot be a pessimist, because pessimism is contingent upon normatives, which nihilists reject.

>> No.5389012

>>5389007
don't even know where to start with this fucking illogical mess

i think i'll just stop coming here, it seems you're getting far more retarded as a collective

>> No.5389014

>>5388995
i think when people look for meaning they're not really being objective. they don't go nearly as far as to look for fundamental truths. they're being entirely subjective. they want to find meaning in the sense that they can understanding something (the more the better) in such a way that makes them feel like they belong in the world and that they're connected with it. that will bring comfort. otherwise they don't seem to belong and they ultimately view themselves as fleshy drifters who exist only to suffer (with, if they're lucky, the occasional pleasurable respite)

>> No.5389016
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5389016

You guys and this board helped me through rough times, and introduced me to Taosim and Stoicism. That has meaning and matters to me...

>> No.5389019

>>5389012
I'm not sure how much you've derived your thought from books, there were very few great philosophers who were pessimists, Schopenhauer is the only one who leaps immediately to mind.

Maybe you should lay off the True Detective.

>> No.5389024

>>5389019
oh, you're trolling. nb man 5/10 you were stringing me along for a bit there

>> No.5389027

>>5389024
Or maybe you're being a naughty young man and staying up past bed time.

>> No.5389028

>>5389000
I was being rhetorical.
It doesn't have consequences for all of us.

>> No.5389031

>>5389027
your pathology is extremely fascinating to me, can you tell me about yourself and your life in a few paragraphs

>> No.5389033

>>5388191
sounds like there is a rational reason you're not aware of because Western philosophical discourse doesn't approach it enough. you don't believe a value imposed by yourself is sufficient. you want values to be external - e.g. you want something to be more important than yourself.

the question that needs to be asked is:
does this mean you don't have enough self-love?

or does this mean nihilism is, ultimately, unsatisfactory and unsustainable for the human psyche?

I'm not asking this as a rhetorical question but as a completely serious one.

>>5388191
that sure sounds convenient, anon. definitely no wishful thinking in a philosophy that literally reverts you to childhood.

>> No.5389035

>>5389019
This is exceptionally well-crafted bait

>> No.5389039

>>5388191
I actually get physically ill when I realise people like this not only exist, but are the norm. Somebody really needs to launch those nukes already. Extinction event can't come soon enough.

>> No.5389042

>>5389014
of all the animal species on the planet, we're the ones with the easiest and most pampered lives, but we want more. we want it all. we want existential meaning too.

>> No.5389044

>>5389039
"the norm" reads Stirner?

maybe you should go outside before judging the human race bro

>> No.5389046

>>5389042
what's point of being pampered and comfortable is it has no meaning? you, too, aren't grasping exactly what nihilism means for us. a lot of the people in this thread are struggling with it, it seems

>> No.5389049

>>5389044
The norm is amoral egoism. Maybe you should go outside and kill yourself

>> No.5389056

>>5389042
i suppose we feel we somehow deserve it all, as a kind of compensation. life starts with an injustice of sorts. none of us consciously decided to be born*, but born we were and now we're faced with an unshakeable truth: the only way out is to suffer a death. most of us shirking suicide, we have to decide how best to spend our lifetime. but how do we decide? enter anxiety about our decisions and we've got a mess. either overcome our anxiety about making the wrong decisions or overcome our anxiety about suicide. or die in the meantime

*is it a kind of guilt complex to wish that as a sperm you hadn't won the race? do you have to forgive yourself for that?

>> No.5389059

>>5387574
The counterpoint to nihilism is something like pantheism. Assume God is in everything - everything is divine. So, again, why does anything matter?

Meaning is relative (Einstein understood). In an absolute sense, I think it's true that nothing matters. I wouldn't even call death absolute, though.

In a relative sense, everything matters, to one extent or another. Really try to define the instances of birth and death - to the cell, past that if you have to - and watch the lines start to blur.

I think objectivity - identity, ego - are illusions. Objectivity is a perspective at some difference from the issue, but the implied detachment is a lie. Identity is a cluster of associations, endlessly recalling one another (the same is a basis for learning - Piaget seems to agree).

...but tell me where any of it stops being relevant.

"You" exist - so everything is relevant, to you, in one way or another. From an objective point of view - one that doesn't actually exist, as nothing that exists is objective - matter interacts. I'm not sure what your question is.

>> No.5389061

>>5389056
i don't know about anyone else but i routinely give my parents shit for giving birth to me. they even admitted their motives were selfish i.e. 'to improve our own lives, to give us purpose' and on and on it goes until the sun explodes or something else happens to earth

i sometimes really struggle not to swear at pregnant strangers

>> No.5389077

>>5388989
le downtrodden alcoholic author face

>> No.5389084

>>5389046
seeking a view beyond existential nihilism is a means to find emotional relief.
i didn't say being pampered would be meaningful, i just said that it 'is.'
you jumped in and strangely presumed that my basic acknowledgement of our better living state as a species, somehow translated into a salve for the existential-emotional problems of existential nihilism.
i'm just stating that we're a greedy bunch.

>> No.5389089
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5389089

>>5389061
If the world was only Eurasians (the people of Eurasia, not half Asian half European people) we would eventually become a type III civilization, and our species would be virtually immortal. BUT the native inhabitants of the Americas, Australasia, and Sub-Saharan Africa will hold us back from achieving that before we are extinguished in someway.

>duuur /pol/ go back to /pol/

I'm just saying you're right; why bother being born?

>> No.5389095

>>5389033
Don't take the playground imagery too heavily

You could use Camus' 'Stirner laughs in his blind alley' instead

>> No.5389099

>>5389061
Given humanity's birthrate, choosing to conceive is selfish. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Given that we're born, and inevitably die, though - as there is no known way to transcend or truly extend life - I have never understood having children, who will inevitably suffer and die.

>> No.5389100

>>5389049
>"the average person is morally inferior to me"
>"I'm gonna spend my day telling people to kill themselves for disagreeing with me on an anonymous imageboard"

>> No.5389101

>>5389089
why the FUCK would anyone want to be immortal. holy shit what a nightmare that would be

>> No.5389102

>>5389039
>I become physically ill when people read something I don't like

How's your pyloric valve?

>> No.5389106

>>5389089
thread derail in progress

>> No.5389110

>>5389099
Go away malthus, your theory was proven long ago

>> No.5389111

>>5389099
Developed countries have intelligent populations and BELOW replacement birth rates.

Shit hole countries and their "immigrants" (invaders) are not intelligent, and unfortunately breed like rabbits.

Ever seen the movie Idiocracy?

>> No.5389112

>>5389110
disproven*

>> No.5389113

>>5389099
a sort of fanciful thinking comes into it. people think they're doing something sacred by continuing their bloodline. they tend to be the same people who think their national identity is also in their blood

>> No.5389114

>>5389101
Speak for yourself. I'd love to live my life, or a better one, forever.

>> No.5389118

>>5389101
The SPECIES would be. Not individuals. We aren't even a type I civ. yet. Type III could avoid any disaster currently known to science.

>> No.5389122

>>5389106
Didn't mean to, apologies

>> No.5389123

>>5389118
Are you from starfleet academy?

>> No.5389129

>>5389100
don't get upset when people call you a piece of shit for being a piece of shit

either stop being a piece of shit or kill yourself, but quit your fucking complaining

>> No.5389133

>>5389114
That's because you haven't lived your life yet. Everyone sees eventually, you're going to suffer and suffer bad and realise nothing that preceded it makes it worth the suffering, just like everyone else

Only difference between optimists and pessimists is time

>> No.5389136

>>5389102
>i don't like

haha, you're fuckin' adorable. shouldn't you be off causing insane amount of suffering for some petty pleasure?

>> No.5389139
File: 60 KB, 625x564, 953834e085547db0913ce700fd9357792b6913dd718186eddaea4d4f066a26a9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5389139

>>5389133

>> No.5389140

>>5389133
It's okay, immortality is impossible so he won't have to find out the hard way

>> No.5389141

>>5389133
Well, you may be right, but I've already suffered a little and lost some loved ones- I'm not as young as you think I am. It hasn't dented my urgings for eternity.

I'm also a Christian, so there's that.

>> No.5389146

>>5389141
Are you like all the other pussy Christians, and fear death? Or are you a man of your faith like Muslims who clearly believe they'll go to paradise? I've yet to meet a Christian with the zeal of a Sunni suicide bomber.

>> No.5389148

>>5389146
I'm fairly sure christianity isn't very compatible with suicide bombing

>> No.5389152

>>5389141
Yeah, I am not meaning to impose my worldview on anyone it's just something I feel really strongly about so I was expressing it. I hope you don't suffer as I have, and I certainly hope you don't suffer as bad as the multitudes that have it far worse than me, but I fear it may be inevitable.

Just out of curiosity, how do you reconcile the state of the world with a benevolent god? Free will, or something else? Again, not trying to denounce anything, just curious.

>> No.5389162

>>5389152
God doesn't do shit m8

>> No.5389164

>>5389146
All men fear death, especially those who say they do not. All the comforting words of Epicurus and the Stoics- they all amounted to nothing in the end. Those men all died fearing their demise, if they died slowly. Suicide bombers fear death every bit as much as you, or I, or anyone else. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Death is a chasm that separates two aspects of existence. We stand now upon one side of the chasm. The other part of life is on the other side. At the end of our lives we must make the jump. Everyone fears the jump, even if they could have done it before, because it is a long way, and the gulf is deep.

That's where faith comes in. You have to trust that you'll make it to the other side, even without evidence, even against your own fear. It's a matter of seeing what can't be seen, knowing what can't be known.

>> No.5389169

>>5389164
I don't fear death. I fear dying, sure, but who doesn't want to avoid pain? I welcome the prospect of an end to the game but I am not a fan of the method by which it is achieved.

>> No.5389173

>>5389162
Well, since I don't think he exists I would have to agree, but are you the poster to whom I posed the question or someone else?

>> No.5389177

>>5389173
Someone else

Believing in divine justice is the worst aspect of faith

>> No.5389178

>>5389129
I'm a piece of shit for having a differing opinion on an anonymous imageboard?

Again, not complaining so much as observing that your demeanor makes your position seem rather tenuous.

>> No.5389181

>>5389164
I promise you there have been people on this earth who faced their deaths without fear

>> No.5389185

>>5389164
you demonstrate the irrationality of the issue pretty well. without even knowing whether there is an "other side", you generate a shitload of anxiety for yourself about "making it". as for the obscure, taoistlike mantra about seeing the unseeable, knowing the unknowable, that's less than useful in a philosophical debate. it's not only abstract, it's entirely transparent. faith doesn't change that

tl;dr: prove there is an "other side" before spouting nonsense

>> No.5389188

>>5389169
pretty much this

>> No.5389195

>>5389178
Are you an amoral egoist? If so, yes, you are a piece of shit that needs to kill itself as soon as humanly possible to prevent any more harm you would otherwise be causing. You are focusing on the fact that I disagree rather than on what I am disagreeing with, for some reason that escapes me.

>> No.5389199

>>5387574
Zen Buddhism. It's totally secular and will show you a way of looking at the problem of existence in a new light. Start with this:
The way of Zen-Alan Watts

>> No.5389200

>>5389195
What if I'm an amoral egoist who will never have children because I don't want them to suffer AT ALL?

Regarding the suffering of other people though; It's not my fault that other people couldn't use protection and I don't experience the world through anyone but me, so I don't care what happens to anyone else. (Besides my unborn son, but he will never know the hell that is this world :])

>> No.5389209

>>5389200
Kill yourself as soon as humanly possible, you piece of shit.

>> No.5389213

>>5389200
>I don't experience the world through anyone but me, so I don't care what happens to anyone else

Such an illogical distinction. Pain is pain regardless of who it is manifested in. If you accept the premise that suffering is bad then it is entirely irrelevant which sentient being is doing the suffering. If you would separate yourself from your emotions and your ego you would see this, but since you are clearly intent on being illogical there's not much to be done with you. I advise a quick suicide as the other poster suggested.

>> No.5389267

>>5389213
well said. egoists make me want to push the big red button

>> No.5389278

>>5389267
every single person who is, was, and will be, is to some degree an egoist. the moment you even dare to begin to think, you're stroking your ego, so going beyond that and actually living, you're well on your way to becoming a distinguished "egoist"

>> No.5389287

>>5389278
>he's never experienced ego-death
>he can't manually enter that state through mental discipline alone
>he can't feel the distinction between the part of his brain responsible for logic and the part responsible for the illusion of a self
>he can't act logically in spite of his emotions and ego because he is a weak-minded idiot
>he is hiding behind innate biases towards the self with no rational grounding

Kill yourself as soon as you can

>> No.5389301

>>5389213
you could argue that even the selfless person is an egoist at heart. the only difference between an altruistic and one who is preoccupied with his self-contained neurosis is that the former's ego is multiplicative -- found in other members of his species and similar. he acts in favor of the suffering outside of him in recognition their sentience was once conceived by the self.

for the ego to be entirely extinguished is for that mind to realize it is in all others. this man serves his omniscient ego present in all life

>> No.5389304

>>5389287
>thinks that you can actually experience "ego death"
>thinks that you can switch between mental states like a robot (and do so without it being driven by ego)
>thinks emotion ("feeling") should be used to access, control and temper the mind, and come before logic (a contradiction)
>thinks it's essential to always act logically without emotion while throwing emotion-driven insults
>thinks he knows my mind enough to detect innate biases that are probably only present in his own mind

i do believe it's time for you to do some reassessing

>> No.5389306

>>5389304
I told you to kill yourself, egoist scum. Get to it.

>> No.5389307

>>5389304
ur a retard

>> No.5389309

>>5389304
>thinks that you can actually experience "ego death"

Not him but this is a very real thing which I too have experienced. You're talking out of your ass to justify being a wretched piece of shit.

>> No.5389313

>>5389304
Let me tell you right now that your life at home and at school will get a hell of a lot easier if you ditch that complex of agnostic-tier thinking

>> No.5389317

>>5389301
I can think with pure logic outside and independent of my ego, and no amount of you telling me I can't will change that. Everyone can do it, but no one wants to.

>> No.5389318

>>5389304
the ego is a construct at the end of the day

>> No.5389324

>>5389304
Might I add that when I said I could 'feel' the distinction I meant I could tell those two perspectives of consciousness apart and nothing else. Don't make up bullshit lies because it helps you feel better about doing whatever the fuck you feel like.

>> No.5389325

>>5389317
i'm not disagreeing.

i'm just bringing your point all the home to say it doesn't matter whether or not you are egoistic or altruistic as the distinctions blur selflessness' essence

>> No.5389329

>>5389325
all the way home*
in* selflessness

d-don't condemn me for my grammar anon-kun

>> No.5389332

>>5389325
It matters a lot. Start thinking as the collective consciousness of the universe because any distinctions between 'you' and 'another sentient being' are inherently arbitrary.

>> No.5389338

>>5389306
i'd rather not. i'm having far too much fun watching myself exist

>>5389307
how so?

>>5389309
elaborate?

>>5389313
and replace it with what?

>>5389318
constructed by whom? and where is it? and how do you know when it's gone?

>>5389324
what's the alternative? give up freedom and do what other people want you to do?

what's so bad about having an ego?

>> No.5389343

I am occasionally astounded at how well we have complemented this illusion of the self with language. Particular names. I mean, in reality, we are just this nameless colony of molecules, but when you attach certain sounds to that blob it becomes a 'person'.

I dunno, I could be rambling but I get weird existential feelings when I walk around looking at people without their name, if you follow me.

I am Joshua. So weird.

>> No.5389344

Satori is a fairly convincing experience. Short of that, there's not much experience that argues for optimism. Logic can't explain it.

If you're lucky enough to experience something like that, it's a paradigm shift. It's an understanding you can't fully lose.

>> No.5389347

>>5389338
>elaborate?

Have you seriously never heard of it before? I mean, I guess I'm not surprised considering the fact that you very clearly don't know shit about anything, but still.

>> No.5389348

>>5389343
that sounded like a really shit synopsis to a fan-fiction sequel to the catcher in the rye

>> No.5389350

>>5389332
you're right, anon. aren't we driven by the ego of the collective conscious of the universe, though?
>>5389338
ego, in the context of this discussion, was constructed freud, or if that's wrong, psychological and social theorists at the broadest. the ego is the imaginary maintenance between desire and discipline. you know it's gone when you realize you exist

>> No.5389352

>>5389338
>and how do you know when it's gone?

ego-death. it feels like your definitions fade and you are everything at once, which is actually the reality of things. but fuck me, is it a shock the first time the veil is lifted. and you're never quit the same once you go 'back'. i can't even swat a fly anymore without intense feelings of remorse

>> No.5389353

>>5389347
of course i've heard of ego-death. usually it involves psychedelic drugs. i'm not hugely interested in hallucinating myself out of my identity, though

>> No.5389358

>>5389348
what the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.5389360

>>5387610
Please tell me there's a video of her getting fucked by the dog, or at least pics.

>> No.5389361

>>5389353
you should hallucinate yourself out of your identity no onewho has has regretted it

>> No.5389363

>>5389350
>you're right, anon. aren't we driven by the ego of the collective conscious of the universe, though?


I don't know, I never really thought about. I will be from now on. What do you think?

>> No.5389365

>>5389353
See, you're so very caught in the ego-trap that you don't even want to leave it, even if it would mean seeing the 'truth' of things. You're ego is that intent on not being wrong that it will maintain the illusion with admirable ferociousness.

>> No.5389367

>>5389338
>the ego is a construct

I think ego - identity - is a set of associations, endlessly recalling one another. Learning is the same, increasing the breadth of that set. "Pandemonium" theory of mind describes it, the set of associations the makes a mind.

>> No.5389371

>>5389352
I really want to experience this. What is the best way to go about it?

>> No.5389373

>>5389371
Any high dose of dissociatives will get 'you' there. I recommend ketamine for the first time.

>> No.5389374

>>5389350
i know i exist already, and it's that fact that gives a foundation to my ego

>>5389352
are you a hippie? while i can appreciate how surreal it must be to be freed from "your definitions", it's not something i'd want to give up permanently. i have a respect for order and principle. i don't care to swat flies, either, unless they're intruding too much, but that's simply because i appreciate that the fly is living. that's enough. i don't have to drug myself up to realise that. i'm not stupid enough to believe that the secrets of life or the universe can be revealed through hallucinating. hallucination is not a window to "reality"

>>5389358
not too much of anything

>>5389361
i don't need to hallucinate myself anywhere. my identity isn't hugely important to me and i'm already aware that it's a construct that doesn't actually exist. i don't see what great significance thinking i'm at one with slugs and weeds can have. i'm already aware of these facts with even the smallest knowledge of science

>>5389365
i'm not caught in the "ego-trap" because i don't believe there is an "ego-trap". i believe my "ego" to be the sum of my thoughts; my personality. who wants to give that up? and again, i don't think the "truth" of things can be "revealed" through hallucination. hallucination is your brain tricking itself

>>5389367
this i can appreciate. breaking the chain of the endless recalling of associations might be interesting

>> No.5389375

>>5389352
You get it. "You" stop existing. Nondualism suddenly makes sense.

...and then you fucking lose it. I haven't been able to keep that state of mind for longer than maybe a minute at a time.

>> No.5389378

>>5389375
if you want "you" to stop existing, why not just kill yourself? then you really won't exist. maybe it's because you actually retain your ego and it's that - your ego - the very thing you claim to rid yourself of - that keeps you wanting to get high and feel happy thoughts through hallucination

>> No.5389379

>>5389363
you should watch serial experiments lain

i know it's not /lit/, but it conveys this idea in a pretty wonderful way using the internet to demonstrate how a world that is not hierarchically above or below ours institutes omniscience of the ego

look at this thread

every post is a past incarnation of your self

the ones that don't reflect a more naive version of yourself but rather an unknown self are the ones you should read into so they too can be factored into your unrealized omniscience and you can reach even more critical levels of awareness
>>5389374
your existence gives rise to the ego but your existence is not experienced until you can kill it
>>5389374
if your identity wasn't hugely important to you, you wouldn't yield to the stigma of psychedelic drugs. empiricism refutes the existence of the self. science is the practice of negating your actuality to produce instruments to serve it, ironically

weed and slugs have nothing to do with this

>> No.5389382

>>5389378
I'm sorry but I won't be able to take any you say on the subject with any gravity until you have experienced ego-death for yourself

>> No.5389386

>>5389374
Oh, you're one of those irrationally and illogically straight-edge people. How very illuminating.

>> No.5389387

>>5389379
i'm not averse to any sort of drug, i just don't think it's necessary to enter a drugged state - to hallucinate - in order to see beyond constructs. the person to whom i originally replied admonished me for supposedly not being logical enough. can't logic be used to dissect the self? although i suppose you would argue that by taking a psychedelic drug, you're able to fully leave your "self" enabling you to look back at it and see it in its entirety in a more objective fashion. but again, that wouldn't be entirely necessary. i can analyse myself pretty well sober. and being sober, i can be surer that what i'm seeing isn't the mere result of a substance making my brain misbehave

>>5389382
hilarious

>> No.5389391

>>5389386
nope, see >>5389387

>> No.5389392

>>5389360
Just when you forget that your on 4chan, this guy shows up.

>> No.5389397

>>5389387
>my brain misbehave

>implying there is a 'correct' state of chemical balance
>implying your brain isn't almost entirely composed of 'drugs'

I think you may need to return to /sci/, you seem to be rather out of your depth

>> No.5389400

>>5389387
>hilarious


Brilliant retort. I concede. You know all there is to know about ego-death by pure intuition, great egoist.

>> No.5389402

>>5389387
the hallucinations themselves aren't the agent for self actualization. the suppression of insufficient reason is. dmt, in particular, forces you to think. it's like re-irritating everything you've learned in your life in 15 minutes in exchange for a few some petty neurotransmitters which weighs out positive 100% of the time, anyway. i don't think it's possible to analyze the unconscious objectively while posting on 4chan etc etc no matter how logical you are

>> No.5389415

>>5389397
i believe there is a "correct" state of chemical balance, to which the brain returns after whatever drug you take wears off. i suppose you don't believe in mental illnesses that come about as a result of chemical imbalance, then? and yes, the brain does naturally contain various chemicals that could be described as "drugs". correct me on any points you can provide evidence for

>>5389400
i don't claim to be an egoist myself, as some sort of cornerstone to my life. i said earlier that i believe everybody is an egoist, to some extent

>>5389402
i would agree, actually, that it's most likely impossible to fully analyse the unconscious objectively. you can only see part of your mind at any one time, never the whole in its entirety

but what value does the drug-induced "revelations" have if, once you come back down, you find yourself pretty much back in the same place, doing the same things, etc? i've heard from various sources that you are (or can be) changed permanently, but is that good enough? it would be a shitty deal if you have to keep taking the drug to keep reaching your new favourite place. very unrealistic as a lifestyle choice, you might say

>> No.5389416

>>5389387
Sure, logic can "dissect" the self. Define conception. Define death. (really look into those - " a sperm and egg cell combining" and "heart/brain death" are actually really vague). Define your identity; which thought is controlling/analyzing all of this?

Drugs (sensory dep chamber, etc) really aren't necessary. They can be a "shortcut" to this sort of thing, but can certainly hold you back.

>> No.5389419

>>5389415
>i believe

No one cares about your beliefs. Yes, mental illnesses are, by definition, made up. You really need to read the skeptics.

And I swear to god if you use the word maladaptive in response to this post I am done talking to you.

>> No.5389422

>>5389415
>once you come back down
you don't

psychedelic drugs, depending on their doses, have the tendency to reset the primal circuits of consciousness and give you a neutral orientation of conduct

one of which you can deviate any way you like

>> No.5389425

>>5389415
>i don't claim to be an egoist myself, as some sort of cornerstone to my life. i said earlier that i believe everybody is an egoist, to some extent

Doesn't change the fact that you're talking straight from your anus re: ego-death and that you are unqualified to participate in discussions relating to it without first experiencing it

>> No.5389429

>>5389415
I am a completely different person in direct response to revelations while on psychedelics. As the other poster said, it is temporary only in the way that all experiences are temporary, and all experiences shape your identity, or, as may be the case, remove it

>> No.5389430
File: 956 KB, 500x244, sd.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5389430

>>5389129
You're hardly the cutting edge, bro. One might even say your philosophy is a bit rusty.

>> No.5389432

>>5389430
back to >>>/b/ you go! :^)

>> No.5389439

>>5389419
"i believe" in the sense that i've heard/read these things and, having considered them, see that they are reasonable and make sense so i accept them generally; not "i believe" in the sense of faith or sentimental opinion. sources? what skeptics?

>>5389422
>one of which you can deviate any way you like
you mean like free will? personal choice? paint my own colours on the world? i can do that already. and again, is it worth it? is it not like being sober while all your friends are drug? you're all enlightened and free and beautiful but everything else is just the same old shit?

>>5389425
which parts of what i'm saying do you think are coming straight from my anus? it seems ridiculous that a person has to be "qualified" to talk casually about something on 4chan of all places. especially when that qualification can only come if you do what's being demanded of you without knowing why it's worth a damn in the first place

>>5389429
see my response to >>5389422

>> No.5389442

>>5389439
drunk* not drug

>> No.5389447

>>5389439
free will is not really free unless that will is enacting as a precursor to enable maximum will beyond the present tense. anything that is not deterministic harmony with nature is only a subjective illusion of freedom.

after you do a heavy psychedelic you are the it feels like you're the sober one while everyone else sounds drunk

you can drunk on our reality if you wish, but that'd be a choice being made by the ego and not your actual self

like that other guy said, drugs are really just a shortcut

we live in one of the first paradigms to laugh at the use of ethnologist

>> No.5389452
File: 124 KB, 248x247, Screen shot 2014-09-02 at 8.21.18 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5389452

>>5389447
ethnogens*

>> No.5389454

>>5389447
>you are the it feels
ok im going to bed

>> No.5389456

>>5389416
you seem to be on my team in that you don't think drugs are the only way to achieve "ego-death" or dissect the self or see beyond concepts. how else do you think it can be done?

same question to >>5389447

>> No.5389460

>>5389456
meditation, hatha yoga, or divinity

>> No.5390144

ITT: drugs will unlock the secrets of the universe bro

>> No.5390178

>>5389000
>>5388825
>He doesn't understand how to read without injecting unverifiable personal content. e.g. projection.
Go take your primitive surface-level understanding of nihilism elsewhere teenager, and let the rest have a real conversation on the subject.

>> No.5390671

>>5387574
Are you implying it matters that you're a nihilist?

>> No.5390892
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5390892

lol look at all these drugged up hippies and moral absolutists getting butt blasted

cry more while we do what we want, faggots

>> No.5390894

You can't be wrong; there's no you or wrong to be.

>> No.5390915
File: 65 KB, 224x225, 1409876200805.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5390915

>>5390144
They really will.

>> No.5390922

>>5387607
There probably isn't objective meaning, but there's lots of possible subjective meaning, so just use that instead

>> No.5390947

>>5387630
Lel you want to have some reward for liviing your life or something?Why dont you do what feels good.

>> No.5390984

There is not nearly enough evidence to make one logically believe that there is objective meaning to life/anything. This is where hedonism embraces the emotional aspect of themselves to suggest that serving one's own pleasure is the most meaningful thing one can do.

Negative hedonists rightly realize that blindly serving ones emotional pleasures will have consequences that will diminish happiness.

The truth I believe is that there is no objective meaning to anything, but subjective meaning that are largely determined by our less controlled emotional selves are just as fulfilling. However, one cannot ignore our logical selves just because our emotional selves can find meaning in things more easily. Embrace both.

>> No.5391026

>>5390984
You guys look into this way too much.

research something that you want to do, then do it.

pissing and moaning about meaning is just wasting time. if its meaningful to you, what difference does it really make.

I guess do whatever you want, just try not to hurt other people ok? we have hopes and dreams too

>> No.5391230
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5391230

>>5389456

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

Here's an interesting perspective on the ego which is congruent with some of the experiences I've had on psychedlics.

>> No.5391283

>>5387616

absolute inherence is fallacial

>> No.5391289

>>5388320

This

>> No.5391292

>>5387574
You could try do fun things sometimes. It could help drag you out of pessimistic (or destructive) nihilism. It does not necessary always do, but sometimes.

We humans are biological creatures who need stimulation. Our purpose is to find and/or create stimulation of various kinds before we die. Emotional, intellectual, physical...

Then moral questions boil down to : which stimulations are OK to subject others to. And which stimulations are OK to subject myself to - if others depend on me.

>> No.5391303

>>5389019
Maybe most of them were not considered great because pessimism is so pessimistic ;)

>> No.5391308

>>5389039

Population regulation is already accelerating; it's a natural extention of accelerating memetic delivery systems.

>> No.5391320

>>5389089

Xenophobia is a classic symptom of internal systemic issues

>> No.5391336

>>5389099

You are 100% correct that having children is about egoism. Kids are fun and they are so happy and enthusiastic so you will be happy for them. You will love them, they will bring meaning to your life. Ok some shit as well.., but if the biology is working correctly, you should feel more happiness about kids than negative emotions.

>> No.5391348

>>5389148
Christianity has had it's fair share of religious wars. "If you die in battle for god, you go straight to heaven". Not very different from "holy war" concept in Islam.

>> No.5391363

>>5389371

Meditation
Pranayama
Diet change
Mushrooms
Triptamine compounds
Disassociatives (ketamine, salvia)

Respect the psychoactives, and your body, and you will be more than fine.

I recommend reishi mushroom, lion's mane mushroom, and Ashwagandha (all three taken with high quality coconut oil/unpasteurized grass fed butter).

>> No.5391942
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5391942

I think a sort of updated Epicureanism is a pretty good response to nihilism.

>> No.5391973

>>5391942
>Sam Harris
Really?

>> No.5391994

>>5387610
If your mind reaches nihilism, you've basically reached the total endgame of life. From here you'll question meaning and all that shit, and if you get past that you become a god- comfortable with death, aware and accepting of the unknown, and free to go. The smart reach nihilism- the smarter realize that life has absolutely no meaning and there's no point- the smartest realize that it's not that life doesn't have meaning, it's that life doesn't assign meaning. Only the smartest can live a life without worries, full of possibility, and fully comfortable with death and previously negative things (embarrassment, pain, etc etc)

>> No.5392059

>>5391973
I'm not familiar with Sam Harris apart from some mild shitposting here and there. Does he argue for a withdrawn negative hedonism of frugality and friendship?

>> No.5392154

>>5389343
Wow, I never thought of it that way. Saving this post to meditate upon later.

>> No.5392187

>>5391994
This guy gets it

>> No.5392226

>>5391994
playing sandbox vidya actually helped bring about this realisation in me more than reading philosophy did

>> No.5393093

>>5387574
If you are you know it doesn't matter to find passion in something

>> No.5393641

>>50391283
Huh
Fallus

>> No.5393648

>>5388646
>Implying we aren't all slaves to the chemical reactions within our brains, and we don't follow a biological programming that has allowed us to succeed this far.

>> No.5393674

>>5393648
"You" ARE the "chemical reactions", dumbshit

>> No.5394246
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5394246

Given our current knowledge, it's too early to make any assumptions about "meaning" or "cause" of the Universe. That's why I'm Nietzschean and not a full Nihilist.

>> No.5394293

>>5387574

If you don't want to be, you already aren't.