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/lit/ - Literature

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5310097 No.5310097 [Reply] [Original]

I hate post-modern literature. All it did was to take the beauty and elevating nature of classic and modern literature away and replace it with pseudo-intellectual shenanigans. All it's trying to do is to break rules, completely oblivious to the fact that those rules were created for a reason in the first place. All it's trying to do is to include every obscure reference and concept in a forced context in order to give the reader this false idea that they're learning something, while actually they learn more if they spend their time reading Wikipedia pages. Post-modernist writers don't intend to make any human connection with their readers. All they're trying to do is to impress. All the people who read Post-modernist literature also have the same intention. There's absolutely nothing genuine about this literary movement. Stop supporting it. Let it die already.

>> No.5310105

Any respect for rules of any kind was gone by the time of Modernism, kiddo.

All of the references and concepts are there for a reason that, if you bothered to actually read the texts, you would understand.

And even the complex and dense style many post modernists adopt is the way it is for a reason.

How about researching the history of 20th century literature, art, and philosophy before spouting your uneducated opinions.

>> No.5310118

HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

>> No.5310143
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5310143

>>5310097
>fact
>rules
>reason
>human
>false idea
>all they're trying to do
>all the people
>intention
>genuine
>supporting it
>let it

>> No.5310142
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5310142

>>5310097
lel, yes Ulysses is a garbage novel in which no human connection can be made, the same is true for M&D, everyone knows they are only a amalgamation of random references put in place for the hell of it.

>> No.5310148

>>5310097
pomo has been dead for like at least 20 years bru

>> No.5310177

I think the biggest issue with post-modernism is that it's become too encompassing of a term. It's no longer a movement but instead a quality that can be assigned to anything, assuming the material is even slightly skeptical or critical. The birth of modern irony means that even the implicit, and more dangerously the inferred implicitness of a text, can qualify a piece as post-modernism.

>> No.5310179

>>5310097
What post-modern literature have you read?

>> No.5310185

>>5310148
>Infinite Shit
>Release date: 1 February 1996
>Started getting relevant after Wallace killed himself in 2008

>> No.5310194

>>5310097
someones mad
i bet youre the same guy who starts the YA lit hate threads and all the nietzsche hate threads and all the hate threads in general

>> No.5310198

>>5310177
Finally someone who gets it. The term "postmodernism" seems an absurdly large confusion in English-speaking world.

>> No.5310203

>>5310194
no. YA hate threads are probably started by some pleb idiot. this guy actually has a point

>> No.5310204

Pynchon is such a hack. "No anooon you haven't read him he tells calculus jokes and he was a math major he's really really smart." Oh, calculus, you mean that class that freshman take? And i wouldn't call him a math major, since he dropped out of engineering his third year and got his degree in word salad."B-but anon, all the references and intertextuality a-and so on!" Yeah, I can go to a library, get the Time Magazines from 1944 and some weather reports and name drop shit too. Let me know when it's significant. "B-but he challenges conventional order/structure/rules whatever else I'm supposed to have my strawman say here " -- yeah, he tells good poop jokes, I"ll give him that much. But I don't want to read a book about poop jokes (even if they're less juvenile than his math jokes). Bunch of wankers, the lot of them.

>> No.5310209

>>5310177
Shhhhhhh, we wouldn't want to educate o.p, I find his buttmad shitposting humorous.

>> No.5310219

Joyce wrote Ulysses, gave birth to modernism's masterpiece, and every would-be ambitious writer has tried and failed to usher into the world a similarly grand tome. Post-Modernism is the intelligent son failing to surpass his genius father.

Blame Joyce. Everything beautiful and darkly consequential about the last few decades of literature belongs at his doorstep.

>> No.5310224

>>5310204
Ah, your the too smart for Joyce faggot, you have the most rustled jimmies I have seen in awhile, If you did your research (I.e read his books) you would know Pynchon knows up to real analysis. By the way, your shitposting isn't going to change anything.

>> No.5310232

>>5310224
>your
faggot

>> No.5310234

>>5310224
*You're
Fuck you auto correct

>> No.5310244

>>5310232
Fuck, beat me to it by 10 seconds

>> No.5310260

>>5310224
>you would know Pynchon knows up to real analysis
Because he name drops Whittaker and Watson's book and the terms of a power series? Because he namedrops a Poisson distribution? I could convince you I've taken a class a class in Analysis because I've read reviews for Folland, Ruden, Royden, Apostol, and Pugh on Amazon, but I don't know the slightest thing about it, and neither does Pynchon. I've read Pynchon carefully, and that's what you pomo-fags find so disconcerting. The gig is up, the emperor has no clothes, etc. etc. It's all substanceless posturing, and Pynchon is the best at it. It's a remarkable talent, but nothing to be proud of.

>> No.5310268

>>5310204
Pynchon made real analysis jokes as well, it's funny because you proved you didn't read his work, or don't know any math above calculus.

>> No.5310272

>>5310260
Why do you act like real analysis is this obscure class? You can take it in undergrad.

>> No.5310283

>>5310268
>muh pynchon isn't stoopid! he's real smart you'll see!
Right. Dig a little farther up your ass and maybe you'll be able to say he made a topology joke.

>>5310272
I'm responding to the faggot who implied it's advanced.

>> No.5310289

>>5310260
I guess he just put those real analysis jokes he found on internet in the 60's into Gravity's rainbow, and you know he didn't actually know it because magic.

>> No.5310300

>>5310289
How to be a pretentious dilettante for 500 please.

A place where people can go to skim books.

What is a library?

Correct.


Go convince yourself that because he opens to a random page in the OED and decides to incorporate that word into his books that he's saying something profound.

>> No.5310306

>>5310204
Make a constructive argument as to why Pynchon is bad.

>> No.5310307

>>5310097
I mostly agree. Most post modern works I read are completely dead. Shoplifting from American Apparel and Infinite Jest are good examples. They're funny, but after ten pages I can't stomach anymore.

>> No.5310309

>>5310300
Right but how do you know he was skimming? Could it be because it fits your narrative? Pynchon is quite the attention whore after all.

>> No.5310310

>>5310307
neither of those is post modern

>> No.5310334

whatever, Pynchon is smart and funny. V is a great book. he creates good characters and puts them in ridiculous situations and draws from a wide base of historical references to create entertaining plots. he uses worlds that he creates using this weird, exploded world of ours as raw material to say important things, and he is a funny motherfucker who writes good too.

you, on the other hand, just finished beating off to tentacle porn and will probably eat mac and cheese before going to bed alone.

so, don't hate- appreciate!/ go fuck yourself

(i heard bleeding edge sucked tho, makes sense, he's been doing it for like 50 years now)

>> No.5310341
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5310341

>>5310204
>yfw none of these things make him a hack

>> No.5310351

>>5310334
Bleeding edge was at about V. Level, certainly no M&D but it was pretty good.

>> No.5310360

>>5310334
No, knowing real and occasionally referencing analysis makes you a retard, you should know this anon.

>> No.5310365

>>5310142
/thread

>> No.5310370

>>5310360
funny how libarts majors are so insecure about their intelligence that they have to resort to (dilettantishly) referencing mathematics to bolster their confidence. Even funnier is that they choose the most unremarkable, entry-level branch of pure mathematics, the one that freshman at harvard study, to namedrop. At least pick something like algebraic topology.

>> No.5310377

>>5310370
lel, I'm a computer sci major

>> No.5310382

>>5310204
>Oh, calculus, you mean that class that freshman take?
But if he writes stuff that a lot of people know how is it pretentious?
You didn't really think this one through did you?

>> No.5310397

>>5310310
You can't be serious. Ok, should I just come out and say Pinecone then? I feel the same about him.

>> No.5310403

>>5310142
>the same is true for M&D
Not even a little bit. I'm not inclined to disagree about Ulysses, but Mason & Dixon is a true masterpiece.

>> No.5310415

>>5310370

I'm a Ph.D. student in algebraic topology and I dilettantishly reference postmodern fiction in order to seem smart.

I see other people do it too. One time I was at an algebraic topology conference at MIT and the guy I was rooming with and I were both reading The Recognitions.

This is not even ironic shitposting; I'm actually telling the truth.

>> No.5310442

>>5310403
>what is sarcasm?

>> No.5310502

>>5310219
Awesome post right here

>> No.5311822

>>5310260
>The gig is up, the emperor has no clothes, etc. etc. It's all substanceless posturing
I find it funny that all these conservative people resenting recent theories and works of art never offer any actual argument why those are bad. Instead they are clichés of each other, them "and their ilk" is just "posturing", their arguments "have no clothes", etc. etc.

>> No.5313836

>>5310219
>Blame Joyce

Inb4 Andy Griffiths, R. L. Stine, Morris Gleitzman

>> No.5313854

>>5310177
I define postmodernism as anything made post-WWII that's weird and verbose.

>> No.5313861

The best way to judge the quality of the literature of a period is to listen to the quality of the music.

>> No.5313879
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5313879

>>5310204
>graduated high school at 16
>got most of a degree in physics and a full degree in English at Cornell
>received a MacArthur Fellowship grant
>the first novel he ever wrote was critically acclaimed and remembered as one of his best
>clever enough to stay hidden for all these years
>unpretentious despite all this
You're just jealous he's smarter than you, I, and everyone on this board.

>> No.5313895

>>5310260

Don't talk to these people. They need this. You'll never win. Let them be the king of their irrelevant little echo chamber.

>> No.5313955

>>5313879
>>graduated high school at 16
why are you acting like this is hard to do? I graduated at 16 from public school, I know private school kids who graduated at 15 and 16 also, and 1 homeschool kid who graduated at 14; all above average IQ, but nobody a genius

macarthur grant is nothing but "I know this guy." less to do with amazingly high intelligence and more to do with connections

>> No.5313989

>>5313861
filtered

>> No.5315036

>>5313895
>Don't talk to these people. They need this.
It's the other way around. We "hacks" and "fakes" want to get on with our play, but you moralists keep screaming at us like always; you need first to establish us as "fake" to label yourself as "real" because you're too boring and cowardly to play but don't want to admit it. All your reactions are full of resentment and you annoy us like a fly annoys.
Go away, you insects.

>> No.5315137

>>5313955
It actually has everything to do with intelligence.

>> No.5315717

>>5310204
Sounds to me like someone is bitter. Did your novel get rejected by another publisher?

>> No.5315726
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5315726

>>5310097
>All it's trying to do is to break rules, completely oblivious to the fact that those rules were created for a reason in the first place.

>> No.5315764

>>5315726
>false opposition between what (actually) works and what (only) sounds good
>a nostalgic longing for the great past that never existed
Try harder, Sowell.

>> No.5315798

>>5315764

>a nostalgic longing for the great past that never existed

>implying social reforms for crime, education, housing, race relations have worked

yeah, ok

>> No.5315800

>>5315764
>you lived through it but my 30 year old teacher says you are an uncle tom so your experiences are invalid

Wow you're a fucking bigot

>> No.5315808

>>5315036
I'm not a moralist. I'll just as easily criticize someone who sets out to write with a moral agenda. Nice project/strawman w/e. I simply don't like Pynchon. But the Greeks were worse, and Romanticists were worst. Plato was a hack; Dickens was a hack. Lots of people are hacks, and I'll call them out on it.

>> No.5316168

>>5315137
>It actually has everything to do with intelligence
which part?
graduating early? sure, but only to such an extent; with homeschool becoming so much more prevalent, its happening more and more though

macarthur grant? don't delude yourself. its about connections since there is no application process. it is literally someone on the board who nominates someone and then they vote on it, the most intelligent man in america might not know the people on the board to receive the grant, meanwhile, some 21 year old whose grandfather bowls with a boardmember could get it