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/lit/ - Literature

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5275689 No.5275689 [Reply] [Original]

Does /lit/ think this is worth reading? If not, could you recommend me some other, similar books?

>> No.5275709

no

>> No.5275713
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5275713

Go for it.

>> No.5275722

>>5275689
yes, it's my favorite YA book. I'll suggest Ivanhoe

>> No.5275742

>>5275722
>The Count of Monte Cristo
>YA
Try harder.

>> No.5275798

>>5275689
designed for children: poorly written but still enjoyable.

>> No.5275799

>>5275689

The Star My Destination is often called an SF version of this.

>> No.5275803

>>5275799
>Star

Stars

>> No.5275956

bump

>> No.5276141

I am enjoying it so far

>> No.5276511

>>5275742
So I'm really interested to know what you think it is.

>> No.5276584

>>5276511

Not that guy, but It's an adventure novel written for an audience a bajillion times less sophisticated in its approach to narrative than even the average John Grisham fan. Like Robinson Cruesoe.

Or think about how in the '20s and '30s, audiences of adults would pay money to go to the cinema and watch Porky Pig cartoons. It's a similar trajectory of evolution, imo.

Mind you, the other guy is being overreachingly dismissive. I don't think TCOMC is bad, just necessarily less sophisticated than modern fiction and, like Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn, a fine intro to literature of its genre that wouldn't, when it was written, have been considered to be aimed at children but which is probably best enjoyed by them now.

>> No.5276662

>>5276584
And in what the term YA don't fits in your description?

>> No.5276668

>>5276662

Come again?

>> No.5276678

How about you...oh I don't know, fucking read it and find out?

>> No.5276679

>>5276662
different anon but The Count of Monte Cristo is probably appropriate for young adult audiences but wasn't written for YA audiences and doesn't fit comfortably within the universe of YA books, so it's not in the Young Adult genre. It's an adventure story that's suitable for people of a certain age. That's a completely different thing.

>> No.5276779

>>5275689
>Hey guys here's one of the most acclaimed and beloved novels of all time
>is it worth reading??!?!?!

Are you serious nigger?

>> No.5276800

>>5276679
>The Count of Monte Cristo is probably appropriate for young adult audiences but doesn't fit comfortably within the universe of YA books

imho only because time gives him the title of "classic", but for analogy even peter pan now is a classic, but remains a child's book.

wasn't written for YA audiences
>the target was obviously different because in 1800 people not had a tv. But i can confirm you (with sources) that he was mostly appreciated by YA of his ages (and deprecated by critics because muh history's licenses)

> It's an adventure story that's suitable for people of a certain age. That's a completely different thing.
It's one of the best YA pieces of literature of his age and, obviously, different from a 2014 YA book. (like peter pan is different from the first harry potter even if they're two children's books)

>> No.5276857

>>5276800
>But i can confirm you (with sources) that he was mostly appreciated by YA of his ages

OK, do so.

>> No.5276863

>>5275689
It's long but the story is pretty good. I found especially the first half enjoyable to read, after that there were times where I failed to follow the storyline. Some parts are long and the book could've been much shorter but all in all it's enjoyable.

>> No.5276923

>>5276857
pedagogic books in my native lenguage (italian)

One by tolstoj titled "Quale scuola? jasnaja poljana" http://books.google.it/books/about/Quale_Scuola.html?id=DmFhGwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

the other "Tradizioni epiche e letteratura" http://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/tradizioni-epiche-letteratura-mulino/libro/9788815149220?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=9788815149220&utm_content=Libri%20Italiani&utm_campaign=google-shopping-lib&gclid=CMfrosuijMACFUsOwwodV10A9g

>> No.5276980

>>5276923

Could you perhaps offer any support via quotations from any applicable sources (in the language in which you are making the claim)?

I'll start if you like:

"Monte Cristo is said to have been at its first appearance, and for some time subsequently, the most popular book in Europe. Perhaps no novel within a given number of years had so many readers and penetrated into so many different countries."

So says some bloke called George Saintsbury, according to wiki, at least.

>> No.5276993

>>5276584
Sophistication is overrated.
People should just relax and enjoy the Count of Monte Cristo and Porky Pig.

>> No.5277004

>>5276993

I'm not gonna disagree as such (as we speak I'm watching The Leftovers ffs), but variety's good.

>> No.5277015

>>5276923
Could you give page numbers or possibly some kind of quote for that? Sorry it's just hard to take you at face value when you're just pasting the names of two books I can't access.

TBH though I would still think, even if it was mostly read by young people at the time, the difference between that and the specifics of what we mean by YA fiction now is so vast as to make the comparison meaningless.

>> No.5277045

>>5275689
No, read it a week ago and got close to nothing out of it.

>> No.5277084

>>5276980
"quale scuola?"
note, It's in a long speech.
"Qual'è la situazione del nostro tempo, che si basa abciea sugli stessi principi dogmatici, e tuttavia da un lato vi sengono insegnate a memoria le verità sull'immortalità dell'anima, mentre dall'altro ci si sforza di far capire all'alievo che i vervi, comuni all'uomo e alla rana, sono in effetti ciò che in precedenza veniva chiamata anima? dopo la piegazione di virgilio, egli scopre di gran lunga puperiori le bellezze di alessandro dumas, vendutegli per 5 ribli"

>> No.5277086

>>5277084
and
"Ho trovato la risposta a marsiglia quando, dopo le scuole, ho cominciato a girovagare per le strade, osterie, cafes chantants, musei, botteghe. Quello stesso ragazzo che mi aveva risposto che enrico IV era stato ucciso da giulio cesare, conosceva molto bene <<i 3 moschettieri>> e <<il conte di montecristo>>. a marsigliaa ho trovato 28 edizioni illustrate di questi libri..."

>> No.5277094

>>5277086
>>5277084
parto fo the point is that with dumas, scott... the YA can (+ or -) learn their history even when the instruction isn't obligatory.

>> No.5277101

>>5277084
>"Qual'è la situazione del nostro tempo, che si basa abciea sugli stessi principi dogmatici, e tuttavia da un lato vi sengono insegnate a memoria le verità sull'immortalità dell'anima, mentre dall'altro ci si sforza di far capire all'alievo che i vervi, comuni all'uomo e alla rana, sono in effetti ciò che in precedenza veniva chiamata anima? dopo la piegazione di virgilio, egli scopre di gran lunga puperiori le bellezze di alessandro dumas, vendutegli per 5 ribli"

>What is the situation of our time, which is based on abciea same dogmatics, and however on the one hand there second taught to memory the truth on the immortality of the soul, while on the other hand, we will endeavor to understand the alievo that vervi, common to the man and the frog, are in effect, what was previously called soul? After the piegazione of Virgil, he discovers much puperiori the beauties of Alexander Dumas, had sold it for 5 ribli

>Ho trovato la risposta a marsiglia quando, dopo le scuole, ho cominciato a girovagare per le strade, osterie, cafes chantants, musei, botteghe. Quello stesso ragazzo che mi aveva risposto che enrico IV era stato ucciso da giulio cesare, conosceva molto bene <<i 3 moschettieri>> e <<il conte di montecristo>>. a marsigliaa ho trovato 28 edizioni illustrate di questi libri..

>I found the answer in Marseilles when, after school, I began to wander the streets, taverns, cafes chantants, museums, shops. That same guy who told me that Henry IV had been killed by giulio cesare, knew very well <<the 3 musketeers>> and <<the count of Montecristo>>. marsigliaa i found 28 illustrated editions of these books

Crude as the translations are, I think the point is clear. This is, I must say, one of the strangest attempts to tell lies on the internet that I've ever witnessed.

>> No.5277152

>>5277101
> This is, I must say, one of the strangest attempts to tell lies on the internet that I've ever witnessed.

This is really offensive, I've done my best for search in a 275 pages book the rows that referring dumas in big chapters about literature and religion in education.
Ok, I've not copied all the 2 chapters, but if you want to read them buy some eng version.
I can assure you that the references are solid in the context.
Same thing for the other book.

>> No.5277210

>>5277152
>This is really offensive

Maybe you could explain how the passages you've quoted support the claim you're making (>>5277094 doesn't count).

I mean, it looks, and I'm just saying that it LOOKS like you've found some books written in Italian that mention Dumas and do so in some context nebulously related to learning history.

That doesn't even begin to support your claim that:

>he was mostly appreciated by YA of his ages (and deprecated by critics because muh history's licenses)

The first part is consistent with the passages you've presented, but is also consistent with its contrary and so is not supportive. The second part is not at all supported by the quotes you've presented.

I am under no obligation to believe you when you make a claim and I am perfectly entitled to regard the mere nature of your profferred support with suspicion. If, on investigating your claim, I find that the quotes you've offered do literally nothing to support the claim you've made, then you are entitled to feel angry, but only with yourself - if you are indeed correct, then I can hardly imagine a sincere effort to support your claims that fails harder.

Up your fucking game, dude. And I say this earnestly, because this is not an issue I'm particularly invested in. If you're right, you're right and I will acknowledge you're right. But only if you can persuade me. And right now, you're so far off persuading me that you've actually made me more confident that my initial assessment is right.

Maybe you don't care enough to try, which, frankly, is understandable. It's not an important discussion. But don't be pouting and sighing at having your word doubted because I won't accept that the passages written in a language I don't speak are contained in the works I can't access and TOTALLY SUPPORT your claim that Dumas was mostly appreciated by the YA demographic of his time. It's not going to fly.

>> No.5277219

>>5276584
>audiences of adults would pay money to go to the cinema and watch Porky Pig cartoons.

You say that as if Porky Pig cartoons are unsophisticated.

>> No.5277229

>>5277219

I will admit I'm not a scholar of the genre. My impressions based on what little exposure I have are that it is indeed the case that the animated shorts featuring Porky Pig produced at that time were, in absolute terms, unsophisticated pieces of popular entertainment.

Theyu-theyu-theyu-th-theyu-th-that's all I can honestly say.

>> No.5277293

>>5277210
is this autism

>> No.5277307

>>5277229
You should read Eisenstein on Disney.

>> No.5277315

>>5277293

No, it's rigour mixed with dutiful politeness. Your unfamiliarity with those concepts comes as no surprise, so don't feel bad, I suppose.

>>5277307

Any technical proficiency is irrelevant to my point. Maybe Disney was a cinematic pioneer; don't know, don't care. Dumas may well have been a pioneer and his work is nevertheless unsophisticated by modern standards.

>> No.5277319

OP, since you aren't getting a straight answer, yes its worth your time. Robin Buss translation is best.
Its the definition of a slow burner (its a book about revenge after wrongful imprisonment and he doesn't get imprisoned for 100 pages) but its incredibly satisfying.

>> No.5277428

I'm not sure what the guy who is saying it is a children's book is aiming for, I mean, I think he's right, I remember Stephen Dedalus mentions reading it as a kid in A Portrait, but back then kids were also all reading the greeks and being given a solid classical education. This is a great book, and a great story for any age. The themes certainly appeals to children, adventure, revenge, subterfuge, but this is by no means Harry Potter, it's one of the great books that everyone should have read, and I believe most people who have read it cherish it.