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/lit/ - Literature

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5274794 No.5274794 [Reply] [Original]

My friend, who I respect, is a big fan of Ayn Rand.

In an attempt to help him, are there philosophers who articulate ideas similar to Ayn Rand in a more mature and intelligent way?

Pic may or may not be related.

>> No.5274805

That bitch needs some Nietzsche in his life.

>> No.5274821

Stirner is just fedorabait that self-conscious Ayn Rand fags read to feel better about their shitty views on life and politics.

>> No.5274849

>>5274794
Fuck it, give him some Zizek and let him see the light. Slavoj bumaye!

>> No.5274856

Nozick. He's a libertarian and he tore Rand a new one.

>> No.5274862

>>5274794
I honestly don't understand the hate for Ayn Rand. Everyone labels her as a philosopher or political scientist or some shit. I read the fountainhead, liked it, enjoyed the characters, enjoyed the story, agreed with some of it, and that's it. I don't have a political agenda, I'm not spouting HURR LIBERTARIANISM! and all that..

Why do people instantly link a writer to the extremities of their audience? Aint her fault that people are retarded. Hell, that's the main theme of the Fountainhead.

>> No.5274874

>>5274862
Ayn rand is more extremist than any of her followers ever could be.

>> No.5274898

>>5274874
Well, maybe she writes that in her other novels or something, because I didn't really find any of it in the Fountainhead. It's just a guy whose passionate and modern vs a guy thats out for fame and is forced into conservative styles, based on an actual architecture ''battle'' between progressive and conservative architecture in New York at the time. With that is a manipulative entity who slowly but surely wins the hearts of the mob with eloquent phrases and reviews, unknowingly turning them into mindless morons praising mediocrity and blindly following everything he says. Roark, I'll give you, is extreme in his pursuit of passion, and his unbreakable will, but I don't see whats wrong with all of this. It's a book. It's a story made by someone, who gave you a chance to look into their minds and the character's minds. Were they convincing in their role? Was it interesting? If so, it was a good book. Why bring politics into it?
But even if you wanted to properly apply it to life, I don't think there is all too much wrong with stating that mediocrity is being forced upon the masses, really.

>> No.5274902

Aristotle

>> No.5274906

>>5274902
I never understood this. Charity was one of Aristotle's main virtues, as well as supremacy of state over individual.

>> No.5274952

>>5274906
Rand wasn't necessarily against charity but both she and Aristotle maintained that it should be done for selfish reasons

>> No.5274960

>>5274849
http://philpapers.org/rec/IEKTAO

>>5274794
Let him read through this http://home.sprynet.com/~owl1/rand5.htm
until he knows she's a worthless piece of shit like everyone in academia knows.

>> No.5274970

>>5274952
What was Aristotle's selfish reason?

If I remember correctly his whole 'right act, right time, right intention' when applied to liberality was to give those who deserved, for their sake with no intention of seeking reimbursement. Unless you're talking about his intention of virtuous life because it is good for the individual.

>> No.5275012

Why do Murricans feel the need to group Stirner with Rand?

Stirner was, by all accounts, a anarchist, while Ayn Rand spouts liberal non-sense left and right. Just because they're both individualists doesn't mean they're the same

>> No.5275084

>>5274970
>Unless you're talking about his intention of virtuous life because it is good for the individual
Yeah that. I might be wrong, I haven't read Aristotle (or Rand) in years. But I do know that Rand's metaphysics and epistemology are lifted directly from Aristotle, and w/r/t ethics both believe in rational self-interest and one's own happiness as the purpose of one's life.

>> No.5275103

>>5274794
>help him
As a Rand fan, why would he want your help? Surely it would sicken him?

>> No.5275113

>>5275084


'happiness' is a shaky translation of eudaimonia

>> No.5275125
File: 22 KB, 220x567, Stirner02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5275125

>>5275012
This.
Show him the difference

>> No.5275141

>>5275012
Americans don't, the small group of alienated teenagers who are the most frequent posters on /lit/ do. Never confuse 4chan for real life.

>> No.5275165

>>5275141
I've seen it elsewhere on the internet, though.

>> No.5275194
File: 42 KB, 240x344, London - Martin Eden.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5275194

>>5275141
Check this guy -> >>5274821
He scared.
Nah, they're all over.

Fiction recs to outdo Rand, I'd say Martin Eden, and the more Stirner feeling Invisible Man. Makes more sense than Aristotle

>> No.5275412

>>5274862
She literally has an epistemology and everything. Most of it is copied and incoherent

Her political views are a Down syndrome rereading of Nietzsche

Her books suck as fiction because every character is just a loudspeaker for her views